PVC Flow Rates -- 11/16/2009
What is a safe flow rate (gph) for 1", 1.5" and 2" PVC pipe? I am wanting to find out just how large a pipe I need for water returning to sump from tank.. It seems many try to force to much water down a small opening which can lead to problems.
<Is true, the combination of typically under-powered factory configurations and a general lack of understanding definitely lends to this.>
Thanks for the help.
Jeff
<Safe flow rates are typically quoted as follows: 1" - 350 gph, 1.5" - 975 gph, and 2" - 1350 gph... All are approximate. Have a read through here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/BulkheadFloRateArt.htm -JustinN>

Plumbing For The Returns/Plumbing 10/22/09
Good Morning,
<Hello Daniel>
I have recently toyed with the idea of moving the return pipe outlets from their normal position near the surface of the water in the display tank to somewhere near the bottom. I want to be able to push water up from the bottom, rather than push water down from the top. Is there anything wrong with moving the return outlets to the bottom of the tank?
<Yes, in the event of a power failure or pump shut off, a siphon will occur attempting to drain your tank into your sump. Check valves can be used, but I'm not real comfortable with using them, over time they can stick.>
Thank you for your time, I appreciate it!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Daniel

Re Plumbing For The Returns/Plumbing 10/22/09
Hello Salty Dog!
<Hi Daniel>
To prevent the tank from being drained, I'd have those little holes at the top of the plumbing for breaking the siphon. Shouldn't that take care of the problem?
<At that depth, you likely will have enough head pressure in the line where you would have water shooting out of those little holes. The siphon breaking holes work well for just below surface applications. Water will flow where the least resistance is.>
Thank you,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Daniel

Marine plumbing, its a nightmare!! 6/17/09 Hi guys and gals, first I just want to say how great this site is. I found this place when I first started out keeping fish, it's been a great help:) <Thank you, great to hear!> I currently have 4 tanks, 2 tropical and 2 marine (I'm attempting to merge the marine tanks into one). I'm having a pig of a week what with the general crap going on in the world, cut-backs at work and to top it off I was greeted home Monday by whitespot in my Reef setup. <Uh oh.> I'm taking your advice Bob after reading through many posts on the site and going fallow (lots of fun... i don't think!). Anyway, that's not what this is about, my real problem is the plumbing on my new tank. This is the first time I've attempted to build my own tank and even after reading your many listings on the subject for months now I still get a headache just thinking about it. I thought I'd done the hardest part of the job just drilling the glass... was I wrong or what!? <Drilling is intimidating, but fairly easy.> Anyway, to the point, I've got one 1 1/2" drain pipe which tee's under the main tank and goes to my holding tank and sump (ball valves are fitted either side of the tee in order to control the flow). My holding tank has two 3/4" pipes that drop down into the sump where I have a Rio pump supposedly pushing 3500Lph back to the tank (I plan on replacing this shortly:)) also through 3/4" (the pump is recommended at a maximum head of 3meters.) I'm having loads of trouble trying to quiet down the drain pipe, I've tried just about everything I can think of and all the fixes I can find both on your site and the web in general (the only thing I haven't tried is the Durso fix because of the lack of space in the weir and I think it would just empty the weir quicker than new water could fall back into its place). If anyone could give me any info it'd be much appreciated, have I simply got this completely wrong and it'll never work in which case do I have to go back to the drawing board? <Two things come to mind. First, if you have just a straight pipe in the overflow you are going to have noise. You do need to fabricate some sort of "standpipe", whether it be Durso, Stockman or a creation of your own. With just an open pipe you will keep getting gurgling and sucking noises. The other thing to look at is the valves on the drain line. Any restriction at all drastically reduces the flow capacity, even if you have two outlets such as this you may not be getting what a 1.5" line can actually flow. This too can lead to quite a bit of noise.> Cheers in advance, Dave (UK) <Hope this helps you troubleshoot this, Scott V.> Diagram included: Main tank 72"x24"x24" Sump 43"x15"(h)x12"(w) Holding tank 12"x12"x24" Weir 10"x20"x 21"/22" split in half (drain and return)

Tank Set Up, Return Pump and more 6/15/09
Hello Crew,
<Hello Henk.>
I am setting up a new tank, and am having it made according to following dimensions:
47.2*27.6*27.6 (120cm*70cm*70cm), about 150 gallon.
I chose for these dimensions because I will have a 10cm (4 inch) wooden trim at the bottom of the display tank, and a trim of about 5cm (2inch) on the top.
The bottom trim is meant to cover most part of the Deep Sand Bed in the display tank.
There will be an internal overflow box in the center at the back of the tank, with two standpipes of 2 inches.
The sump will be divided into 4 parts, with one part where the water enters, second compartment with skimmer and Ca reactor, third part actual sump with the return pump, and a fourth part will be a refugium with DSB and macro algae. The refugium will be fed with water directly coming from the display tank, with a means to control the water flow. Water from this refugium will then flow over into the part where the return pump is located.
<Just do be sure to run this restriction off of a T, allowing anything that is restricted by the valve to still continue on from the overflow line to other parts of the sump.>
I am planning to start out with some of the easier LPS, but would like over time to focus on SPS.
Now, for my questions... Regarding the return pump, I read on your site the determining factor for the size of the pump is the flow the overflow can handle, and I have not been able to find how much flow two 2 inch standpipes will be able to handle safely (and preferably without too much noise)?
<A single 2" internal diameter line will handle 1350 gph or so without issues....this does assume there are no horizontal runs in the overflow plumbing.>
Here in Beijing, the German Messner pond pumps are quite popular with reef keepers (seems to be the most widely used import return pump here), but I have not really been able to find any information on European or American message boards or websites regarding the use of these pumps in marine settings, so I am wondering whether or not these pumps are a good choice. I am not sure if you have heard of people using these pumps as return pumps?
<I have never used one, but these are submersible pumps, therefore no "saltwater seal" needed. You will be fine with one of these.>
As for the return into the display tank, I have the option for choosing either 2 or 4 returns, is 4 always better than 2?
<Not always, it can be too large/too many, diffuse flow too much.>
I plan to supplement circulation with 2 Tunze 6105 stream pumps and a multicontroller.
<Nice!>
I am just wondering if I choose 4 returns all located at the back of the tank, won't I have too much laminar flow, compared to when I would choose two returns pointed towards the sides of the tank, where the Tunze pumps will be located?
<Oh, no, just place them in the back. You can use PVC 45 deg elbows or a product called LocLine to direct the flow from each output.>
I am currently considering a return pump of about 2100gph. I assume there won't be much loss, the return pump only would need to pump about 5 feet up in a straight line, before either being divided over 2 or 4 returns.
<The loss is surprising, I would go with four 1/2" or two 3/4" returns for the flow you will end up with.>
Would you advise more flow through the sump, since the overflow might be able to handle more?
<No, this is plenty. Other issues arise, such as noise and micro bubble problems with too much flow through the sump.>
Finally, as to the lighting, if I want to keep my options open to have clams and grow SPS in the tank and not only at the top third of the tank.
Will two 150W metal halides suffice for a tank with this depth, or should I go for the 250W lights?
<250s if you want to be able to set stuff wherever you want.>
I have been reading and learning plenty from your website, and I hope I could run the above questions by you, since it is my first marine tank and people here in Beijing seem to implement a method of reefkeeping quite different from what is advocated on your website (usually with non-flood safe overflows, apparently no DSB tanks here at all, and heavy in-sump mechanical filtering with filter padding).
<Heee, too many people here too!>
Henk Naert
<Scott V.>

Drains & Returns 6/1/09
Hello,
<John.>
I recently burned out my Danner HY-Drive, from what I have read I might be using a pipe that's too small and over worked the pump.
<Not likely, it would have to be extremely small/restrictive.>
I have a 180 AGA with corner overflows. I am uncertain as to the Bulkhead sizes for the drain and return. I am using 3/4 inch return lines, my pump is in the sump and runs up to a tee splitting the 3/4 pipe to the two corner's. I am thinking that I should increase this to 1" so not to burn out my new pump. But I do not want to have too-much pressure where the drains can't keep up.
<Is the problem. Your drains are only going to handle 600 gph combined, one single 3/4" line can easily handle that. I would size the new pump accordingly.>
Currently I have 1" drain pipes. These drop below the tank and turn 90 degrees running parallel with the tank and then drop 90 degree's to my sump. Some times I get air in there, would it be helpful to increase the drains to 1 1/2 inch ?
<Not really, the bulkhead is going to act as the choke point, dictate the flow capacity.>
Also, would it be beneficial for the drains to run at a 45 degree angle to the sump as to permit air to travel up and not get stuck in a straight run?
<Yep, tis the problem with the air. Horizontal runs can be a pain. Run it with 45s if you can.>
But again, I am not certain as to the bulkhead sizes on this tank (it was pre-drilled reef ready when I bought it), I am assuming that this would limit me on the pipe size as well.
<It does, your sizes listed above are correct.>
Best Regards,
John
<Scott V.>

Re: Drains & Returns 6/2/09
Hello Scott,
<John.>
Thank you very much for the reply.
<Welcome.>
I am confused still, it's clear that I should have the drains run on a 45 - I'll do this. But what is the best PVC dimension to use with this set up? Again, currently I have 1inch drains and 3/4 inch supply. Do you recommend that I increase these dimensions (if so to what please) or should I keep them as is?
<Keep them as is, there is no benefit to upsizing here.>
I appreciate your help !
<Welcome.>
Regards,
John

Return PVC Pipe INSIDE the Overflow Pipe? Ala JamesG 4/27/09
Plumbing
Hey there Guys! Hope all is well where you are.
<I'm in lousy Michigan and all is fine.>
I'm setting up my second marine-tank, which will be a shallow tank - 14" high x 48" x 48".
Because the tank will be viewable from all 4 sides, I plan to put my overflows in center area, instead of the back of the tank. I will have 2 overflows, one acting as a backup for the other.
<Good idea.>
I want the returns to feed in the center of the tank, but don't want to drill additional holes. So I was thinking of placing the return line inside the overflow. I tried searching your FAQ's but there's so much to go thru!
One thing I'm not sure of is how to handle my piping. If I place my return inside the overflow, then eventually I will have to separate the two pipes, but not exactly sure how to do this.
If you have any tips I should follow, I would love to hear them - or even if this is not a good idea at all (should I drill an additional 2 holes for the returns?
<Yes, drill the additional two holes, is better to have separate lines/bulkheads for each function.>
Many thanks for your input!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Jason

Return PVC Pipe INSIDE the Overflow Pipe? 4/27/09
Plumbing, ala ScottV
Hey there Guys! Hope all is well where you are.
<I'm in lousy Michigan and all is fine.>
I'm setting up my second marine-tank, which will be a shallow tank - 14" high x 48" x 48".
Because the tank will be viewable from all 4 sides, I plan to put my overflows in center area, instead of the back of the tank. I will have 2 overflows, one acting as a backup for the other.
<Good idea.>
I want the returns to feed in the center of the tank, but don't want to drill additional holes. So I was thinking of placing the return line inside the overflow. I tried searching your FAQ's but there's so much to go thru!
One thing I'm not sure of is how to handle my piping. If I place my return inside the overflow, then eventually I will have to separate the two pipes, but not exactly sure how to do this.
If you have any tips I should follow, I would love to hear them - or even if this is not a good idea at all (should I drill an additional 2 holes for the returns?
<Yes, drill the additional two holes, is better to have separate lines/bulkheads for each function.>
Many thanks for your input!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Jason
<<Sorry guys, I can't help but to chime in here, this is too good! What you propose is very doable. What you will need is something called a pipe grommet, UniSeals being the main ones used in aquarium applications. This would allow you to run the return pipe into the overflow pipe. Now to the real issue with this. You will need a big overflow pipe to do this with!
Just a little educated guesstimating here on my part: let's say you go with a 1" return line. Put that inside a 1.5" line an you will have very little overflow capacity. Inside a 2" more of course, but IF you really wanted to do this I would not with any less than a 3" overflow line and no more than a 1" return. I would be comfortable (have never actually done this) estimating 1000gph+ out of the overflow line. This falls right in line with the flow through a 1" return. Now the other downside, you have no real redundancy with this system! Just my .02, Scott V.>>

ATTN Scott V re: Return PVC Pipe INSIDE the Overflow Pipe? 4/27/09
Thanks guys for the responses.
<Ah, welcome.>
My plan is definitely to use a large overflow - 3", with a 1" return.
<Good.>
Scott, you mentioned that there is no redundancy ... I plan on having two overflows, isn't redundancy taken care of here, or are you referring to something else?
<This would be the redundancy, ideally with the flow limited to what one overflow can handle (well, really under what one can handle).
Regards,
Jason
<Have fun.>

Return PVC Pipe INSIDE the Overflow Pipe?   4/28/09
Scott, I guess I'm not with the program here. I've looked at Uniseals, and from what I've read/saw, they just take the place of a bulkhead fitting, relying on pressure from the pipe being inserted to force a seal on the edge of the bulkhead hole, and, that sounds scary to me.
<This is exactly how they work and actually do so extremely well, especially when it comes to curved applications such as going into a pipe.
It is all about the hole size, the things are very precisely made to seal on a pipe of X diameter into a hole of Y diameter....all specified by the manufacturer.>
So I'm visualizing placing (example only) a 1" pipe inside a 3" pipe with the proper Uniseal (3" to 1") at each end. If this is the case, how does water flow down through the larger pipe if the Uniseal supporting the 1"
pipe is blocking the flow?
<Well, the Uniseal will go into the side of the larger pipe, leaving the ends of the larger pipe open to be plumbed as usual. It of course does use up considerable space inside the large pipe to run the smaller one through it, that is why I really would not consider it with less than a 3" line.>
Enlighten me, perhaps my brain has passed away and I'm in need of assisted living.
<Geez, I know I am getting close nowadays!>
James
<Let me know what you think of the idea. It is actually something I have thought about and theorized for years, and yet have never actually tried.
Scott V.>

Re: Return PVC Pipe INSIDE the Overflow Pipe?  – 4/29/09
Hello Scott,
<Hey James.>
James finally woke up from the induced coma, do feel better now.
<I have not had such an awaking yet today!>
I'm now seeing how this application works, I think....A horizontal tube is placed in the outer pipe to deliver tank water to the sump.
<Yes.>
What me thinks of the idea...I'm always paranoid for leaks, but if the sump was placed under this "manifold", I guess a safety redundancy is present as far as leakage goes if that should ever occur.
<A good idea to place the whole deal over the sump. The Uniseals seem like quite a bit to trust but do work surprisingly well.>
It also appears that one could have two drains at two different levels.
Would I do it? I think I'd like to see this system in operation first and/or talk to some one that actually uses this method of water delivery/return.
<Me too. Once all the dust settles here I may try it.>
Cheers,
James
<Talk again soon, Scott V.>

Plumbing Conundrum 2/24/09 Hi Crew, <Hello Peter> Thanks for a great site and all the help I have had in the past. <You're welcome.> I have the following issue: I have 4 holes drilled on the back of my tank at the top (52x18x24). I have Two 1 1/4" holes on the left side & Two 1inch" holes drilled on the right hand side of tank. Im not sure which option to go for, or even if any would be wrong 1. Should I have inlets through both 1 inch holes & outlets through both 1 1/4 (Opposite ends) <No, the 1 1/4" drains/outlets are for water returning to the sump.> 2. Inlet, outlet next to each other at each end (Inlet: one 1 inch & one 1 1/4. Outlet: one 1inch & one 1 1/4) 3. As the holes are slightly different heights, I had the idea that if I set up, Two 1 inch inlets with one 1 1/4 outlet. Then the other outlet has a 90% bend on, angled to a slight tilt, would this reduce gurgle, as I can imagine more air than water going down my pipes. <The two 1 1/4" lines will be drains to the sump. The upper left outlet (photo 1) is designed to allow you to set the water level in the tank by rotating the elbow either up or down. The one inch lines (photo 2) are return lines from the pump to the tank. They can also be adjusted where you may want one shooting across the surface or just below, and the other pointing down at a slight angle, or you may even want to attach a spray tube to one of the outlets. For a much better insight on aquarium plumbing, do read here and related articles and FAQ's. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm> Thanks for all your help <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Peter

Aaaahhhh.....insane with bulkheads and holes...2/8/09
Dear Mr Fenner or Calfo or both : ]
<Hello Jay, Scott V. with you this go round.>
I must first thank you for the huge amount of money I'm going to save from the months...and I do mean months I've spent enjoying reading over WWM!!!
<Wow, great! Thank you.>
What you do for hobby newbies like myself is priceless!!! Now if I may, I have a question re plumbing, more specifically bulkhead/holes. I will be setting up a 75 gallon "light" reef tank! Probably heard that before right...hehe.
<Thought that before!>
I've decided on everything but the plumbing. The fun part huh?! I'm going to utilize a sump and I'm aware of the constant issues with these so called reef ready tanks, so I plan on having one custom made. Mainly to accommodate appropriate flow for the inhabitants. Plus I want a Starphire glass front. This is where I go nuts! Each time I think I know how I wanna go about it I read something else and second guess my original idea....here's what I'm thinking, I need your most valued opinion before I make my move!
<Okay.>
I'm thinking I want each drain hole to be able to quietly handle 600gph {so I can keep powerheads out of the water even without the closed loop}. Also be able to handle a closed loop I'll use later on down the road. I figure that'll give roughly 1200gph and would suffice until maybe I could bump it to around 1500 with the later installation of the CL.?.?. I think I want to have 4 holes drilled, 2 on the bottom of both sides. At first it'll be one as a main drain to the sump, one as a slow flow drain to the fuge, the two other holes as returns!
<Sure, but do just make the drain to the refugium a full flow throughput, with a tee off to the refugium that you can adjust.>
After everything gets settled and things start maturing I will eliminate one of the returns or drains and utilize this hole for the external pump I run the closed loop I eventually plan to install {do you think its better to install this with the initial setup?}.
<It is far easier to do it at the start.>
The other return/drain I'll still use or just simply "cap", if they can be capped<?
<Yep, simply a bulkhead and a PVC plug.>
So in your opinion what size bulkheads/holes should I utilize to achieve the flow needed?
<Two 1.5” bulkheads will achieve the flow for the overflow, but leave no redundancy. I would either opt for 3-4 1.5” or 2-3 2” for the overflow. 1.5” likely for the closed loop intake/return.>
I know I can taper them down as needed and it is best to go too big rather than too small but with all the bulkhead size to hole size ratios it gets confusing. So I'm asking,... if it was your 75 gallon, what would you do?
<Three 2” throughputs for the overflow.>
Reminds me of that bracelet "what would Jesus do" well they should make one for aquarists, "what would Bob/Anthony do." *Not trying to be blasphemous*
<Hmmmm, no. It is just what works.>
Sorry for the length of this query but one more question. Do you find it more beneficial to plumb a separate refugium to the same sump with its own little return pump or section off part of the sump as the fuge?
<Better/easier IMO to just run it off the main return. If you want a separate refugium, just have it overflow into the sump return.>
Sorry for the vague question there, "fuged" either way is fine with me but the thought of figuring out extra plumbing for a separate fuge makes me a little nauseated, so any simplified instruction on how to do so would be fabulous!!!
<Just overflow it to the sump to link them together.>
I'm sure I speak for others as well as myself when I say thank you and WWM for what you do for the saltwater community.
<Well thank you!>
If this isn't Bob, can you tell him to post more pics of his diving adventures soon ; ]. Thanks a million!
<It is not Bob, but I know he has been working hard posting many of his dive pics, archiving them on WWM for all to see.><<A continuous, and joyous process. RMF>>
Jay
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Re: Aaaahhhh.....insane with bulkheads and holes... and pb  [R2] 2/13/09
Hello, to whomever I have at the other end this mornin' !
<Hello, Scott V. with you again.>
I am sending this email again, I want to apologize if you received the first follow up email but I sent it Monday, and I've had a few problems with others getting my emails this week. So I figure I'll give it another go in case you never received it! Thanks and sorry!
<Ah, no problems, did not see the other one, but this one is here!>
Hello Scott, thank you for your speedy reply!!
<Welcome.>
I think I do but let me make sure I got this. First off, I did mean that I would taper it down through the plumbing with an adjustable tee, I realize it probably didn't sound that way ;]. I was wondering which way you thought was more beneficial, making the fuge part of the sump or its own tank?
<Six in one, half a dozen in the other. Whichever suits your situation the best. Bigger is the game, if you can fit more with a combo unit, great. If you can fit two separate tanks, fine.>
Ok, I'm assuming {uh oh} by redundancy you meant that 2 1.5" bulkheads would do 1200gph but leave room for nothing else?
<Exactly, in the neighborhood of 1500 gph for two 1.5" lines....the redundancy pertains to having an extra or two should one line fail, get plugged.>
With 3 2" bulkheads for the overflow, 2 for the sump and 1 for the fuge and the 1.5" bulkhead for the CL would I need 3 3" holes and 1 2 3/8" hole?
<For most schedule 40 bulkheads these are the sizes.>
Could I get away with 2 2" bhs and 2 1.5" bhs with all I'm trying to do?
<Yes, a 2" gravity fed drain can handle the 1200 gph, two will leave you the redundancy.>
Where is the best place to have the holes drilled, bottom, sides, back?
<Up to your tastes, I personally like it through the back to allow for a smaller overflow box. Most tanks in the size range you are looking at cannot be drilled through the bottom due to the use of tempered bottoms, if you want this do be sure to order it done from the factory.>
I don't think I really like the thought of being able to see the throughputs or holes. I was going to utilize Durso style standpipes when the plan was for the bottom. Do these type pipes need to be the same diameter as the bulkhead?
<Yes, though some advocate for using even larger diameter piping for the standpipe. The argument is it is quieter. Bunk. The same diameter standpipe is fine.>
Sorry for all the questions but I want to get this right the first time!
<No problem.>
Could I incorporate the closed loop from the sump with all the drainage that'll be coming through there with a nice submersible pump in the return section or should I use the 1.5" bulkhead for the closed loop through an external pump?
<The latter is how you will want to plumb a closed loop. You can run all your flow through the sump, but too much gets hard to manage in regards to microbubbles and noise.>
I don't need any return holes I reckon because I can just run the return/closed loop up the back of tank right?
<Yes.>
Depending on your answer to the last question, what size pump and plumbing should I use, I look to utilize 6 tees or movable elbows rather in the tank for about 250gph each one to get roughly 1500gph and
<1500 gph through six 1/2" outputs would work fine.>
I've read somewhere to keep the pvc the same size as the outlets on the pumps, is that true?
<A good rule of thumb, until the point you get to the actual outlets. Then choke them down to your output size, I would use the 1/2" here.>
Would I need to use smaller pipe for the ring around the top of the tank or the elbows?
<Not the ring, but on the outputs themselves....a pump this size is going to have a 1"-1.5" output.>
There would be about 4-5 feet of head. Is that an answerable question ;]?
<Oh yes!>
Thank you once again! If WWM and all the volunteers didn't exist neither would my little slice of the ocean!!!
Thanks again...
<Welcome, and thank you!>
A future happy reefer!
<Ahh, good. Do look at a product named LocLine for your outputs. It is cheap and makes adjusting your returns very easy.>

Please help with plumbing question 11/24/08
This afternoon I ordered a 180-gallon acrylic 72x24x24 reef tank with two overflow boxes that are about 11" away from the side wall.
I would really appreciate help with the following three questions.
<Sure.>
1. Is it better to have the holes for the return pipes drilled in the middle of the tank on the back wall/top ledge, in-between the overflows OR on the back wall/top ledge but more towards the right and left sides of the tank, somewhere in between that 11" on the sides?
<Really makes no difference. Between return adjustability (do look at LocLine for this) and any supplemental flow, you will be able to direct the flow to where it needs to be.>
2. What size do you recommend for the drain hole in each overflow and what size for the return hole, which I am going to have come through the overflow box. Right now I told them 1.5" for the drain
<Good for a reliable 750gph per gravity fed. Do double up what you need for your flow to get redundancy.>
and 1" for the return... but it is not too late to change that.
<1� will work, but consider ¾� (it can always be reduced down). 700-800 through a ¾� gives you a good dynamic flow to work with and there are many more products out there for directing that flow available in ¾ vs. 1�.>
3. Do you recommend that I use two small return pumps or one big return pump?
<You could do either. I would just run one in this system, with another on hand for a backup, can be a tank saver.>
Thank you so much!
<Welcome, have fun, Scott V.>

Re: Please help with plumbing question 11/24/08
Ok, I will downsize the returns to 3/4". Regarding the drains do you think 1.5" would more noisy than 1"??
<Not if done correctly. You will want to have an elbow with the open end pointing down or some other system to keep the opening in the line underwater. On that note you
will also need to aspirate the line where it turns to go down to prevent a siphon, the most common noise issue with overflows.>
Also, do you think it is better to have the two drains connect and go into the sump as one, or is it better to have them go into the sump individually.
<Leave them individual for true redundancy.>
Thanks again.
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Another Noisy Plumbing Question... – 10/08/08 Hi, <<Hello>> I have read through just about everything that has to do with noise of plumbing overflows but my situation is a little different. <<Okay>> I attached pictures to help you visualize what I am doing. <<I see these…thank you>> Tank is 135 gallon with a 2' bulkhead and drain and 1' return spray bar (specs per my Quiet One 4000 return pump). <<Okay…so about 900 – 1000 gph (depending on exact model…”HH” or otherwise) before headloss. The 2” drain should be able to handle this…though it is maxed out (if you take siphoning/safety in to consideration) at around 1100gph so you are close to capacity re. Probably part of your issue>> Sump is a 29 gallon Rubbermaid tub. <<Kind of small for “processing” that much flow…and another factor with the noise>> My design is based on the fact that water will always level itself in two different points...Out of my 2” bulkhead I have a 90* going up, then to a Tee where I split it off on the side, then to a 90* going down to the sump. <<Yes I see…and very similar to the design of my own bulkhead drains, except rather than “raising” the water lever outside the tank and the releasing it to the sump as you have done, my design comes straight out and then turns down with a short run of vertical pipe at the apex of the downward bend (3-way tee w/90-degree sweep) to allow aspirating of the drain>> I have a 2” ball valve half way between the sump and the bulkhead for maintenance reasons. <<This will cause some restriction/loss of flow rate>> I then drip into a filter pad for mechanical and then bio media. It is then pumped back into the tank via a spray bar with a siphon break hole in case I lose power. <<Risky… What if the hole clogs? Better to position the return (and drain) such that the sump will hold all transient water volume without having to rely on a siphon break>> As expected my drain is extremely loud, not only with water rushing but the common gurgle too. <<I have no doubt>> I have tried putting on a cap and drilling a small hole (started with a #60 bit) and many combinations of hole sizes. <<Not enough in and by itself…needs tubing run down in to the drain to release entrained air from the rushing water. And even then, this is no panacea…sometimes you have to either position the sump in a remote location (like a basement, if possible), or more easily done…reduce the amount of water flow going through the sump>> It was interesting to see the water in the sump raise and lower according to the hole size but it did little for noise. <<Indeed>> I then tried using the airline tubing in the drain trick, again to no avail. <<This much water and this size drain likely needs something larger in diameter than airline tubing. Gather a collection of caps and drill for and utilize different diameters of tubing…the “length” of tubing slipped down the drain also affects the outcome. There’s no set recipe for success…it just takes some time and experimentation to find the tubing diameter and length combo that produces the best result>> With just a small hole in the cap the noise is a little better however the level fluctuates and the noise is quiet then gets loud then quiet and loud, etc. <<Yes…is surging because the drain is starved for air>> Also, I found that with just a small hole it is possible for my system to create a siphon and drain super fast through the 2” drain. <<Mmm, indeed…and always dangerous to push a gravity drain to the point that it creates a siphon. And though not the case in this particular instance…this is generally what is happening when hobbyists tell of flowing the maximum volumes as depicted by most of the “drain size calculators” about>> My return pump obviously cannot keep up with a siphoned 2” pipe. <<It can once the water level reaches the bulkhead and is able to draw air…though the sump probably doesn’t have that kind of capacity, nor do I think you want the “working” water level in the tank to be this low based on the position of the bulkhead in the pictures. One option here is to add an upturned ell fitting to bulkhead on the inside of the tank. You can cut one end to set/control the working water height of the tank, and though not especially necessary, you can even cut notches/teeth in to the drain to help keep critter out. Doing this should allow the working water height fall to the point where air can enter the drain yet keep the water at a reasonable height in the tank as well as keeping the extra volume from overflowing the sump>> Therefore, if a siphon was created it would drain all the water down to the bulkhead until air was introduced, <<Exactly>> this would overflow my sump big time and leave me with a pool of water on the floor. <<Not the desired result…>> If I drilled enough holes in the cap that would break any siphon that may happen, the level in the sump was too low and the noise was still loud. <<Agreed…back to experimenting with different diameters and lengths of tubing>> Right now I have the system running with no cap and the Tee is open to the air. This makes the level in my sump too low, <<A few things working against you here, not the least of which is a sump that I consider too small for the pump/flow rate your are utilizing. Aside from allowing the turbulence from the drain more room to “smooth out”…a larger sump would allow a higher working water height because of the increased transient water volume>> the level in the tank too high, <<I think the upturned bend immediately after the bulkhead is creating enough backpressure/resistance in the drain to allow the pump to overwhelm it. You can easily test this by installing a gate-valve on the output side of the pump and “cranking the flow back” to see what happens. This is also a good way to determine the “optimum” flow rate for your drain configuration>> and the noise very loud but at least I don't have to worry about a siphon starting in the drain. There has to be a way to make this thing quiet and introduce enough air into the drain so a siphon will not be created. Any ideas? <<Yes… Merely installing a 2” bulkhead and pipe doesn’t mean you can always flow 1000+ gallons through it…the “configuration” of the plumbing has a large effect on the efficacy of the drain. The more I think about it the more I think your plumbing configuration is a mismatch for the pump you are using. I’d bet that if you were to reduce the flow by half that your problems would be greatly reduced if not alleviated altogether. Another option is to change the plumbing configuration and see how that works with the existing pump. My recommendation would be to change the upward bending 90-deg ell to point downward and use another 90-deg ell inside the tank to control the working water height from within…and you may still need to aspirate the drain to help with noise so you might want to consider a fitting like mine over the plain 90-deg ell fitting. Or it may come down to a combination of several/all suggestions to get where you want to be. Lots to consider for sure…feel free to write back if you want to break it down and discuss further>> Thanks a million! Dan <<Happy to share. EricR>>

Re: Another Noisy Plumbing Question... – 10/14/08 Thanks for your reply. <<Quite welcome…I hope the information proved helpful>> I re-plumbed the drain to the following... Angled the drain going down and raised the part where it starts to angle to go into the sump. This helped with the fluctuating levels. <<Very good>> I then experimented with hole sizes and air tubes in the drain. This is what I ended up with... (3) 1/8" holes and a hole big enough to fit 2 common size air line tubes that extend roughly 1' into the drain. Doing all the above made it pretty quiet, <<Sometimes just takes a bit of trial-and-error>> I then put fiberglass insulation around the tube and then foam pipe insulation around that. <<Ah yes…another useful strategy for quieting noisy hard plumbing>> The tank is also getting a canopy hood that I am building to cover the top which will quiet any surface splashing. Finally, we are going to put a fabric skirt around the metal stand that will cover the sump and hopefully further absorb noise. <<Indeed… My own system is built in to a wall, which does much to “muffle” the operational noises. Sounds like you have it under control…excellent!>> My next question for you is stocking the tank. I leave on business trips for a week fairly often so I want the bio-load pretty low; my wife will feed while I am gone but not clean :) <<I see… You may want to consider making up pre-measured packets of food for this purpose to make things easier for her and safer for the tank>> Right now I have a Lab Electric Yellow Cichlid and a Hypostomus plecostomus. I am thinking about giving the Plec to a friend since they are a huge bio-load and get big. My main fish I want to be either a Jack Dempsey or a Green Terror. I cannot decide on which one though, what is your opinion? <<Both reach about the same adult size, but for the mixed tank you have planned I would probably choose the temperament of the Jack Dempsey over that of the Green Terror>> The rest of the fish will be 5 Silver Dollars, a Senegal Bichir, Acei cichlid, and my yellow lab. I know the Acei and yellow lab may not be a good mix with the JD or GT but the footprint of the tank is pretty big and 5 silver dollars for distraction will help too. Do you think that would be ok? <<Though not a peaceful mix it does seem reasonable, for this 135g tank>> If not, can you recommend some acceptable colorful replacements for the Acei and Yellow Lab? <<I must admit that Cichlid compatibility/stocking (am more a saltwater kinda guy) is not my forte…I would recommend you write back and ask for Chuck or Neale to get some excellent and more specific advice re>> With these 9 fish in my 135 gallon I would think the bio-load and keeping Nitrates under 20ppm would be pretty mediocre, do you? <<Perhaps not as much as you think. These will be fairly large and messy feeders…much will depend on the efficacy of your filtration system>> Can you guess on my expected water change routine once full grown? <<I would suggest a minimum of 25% bi-weekly to start…water testing will determine if this needs to be increased>> Thanks for all the help! Dan <<Happy to share. EricR>>

Thanks! Silencing pb overflows  10/8/08
Just wanted to say thanks for your wisdom regarding silencing Durso overflows. After I moved my sump to the basement, the overflow rumble was very noticeable. By adding two ¼" ID airlines into the Durso head, each
about 2' below the top of the water, the overflow is now silent except for the waterfall into the box.
<Glad you found what you needed!>
Much thanks!
<Cheers,
Mich>

Plumbing Options/Overflow 9/19/08
Hi crew-
<Hello Jim>
Many thanks for such a high value resource/community!
<Thank you!>
I recently had to move my 75g reef tank to install some floors.
To do so, I purchased an extra drilled 75g, plumbed it inline in my basement next to my sump, and the job went relatively smoothly.
Now, I am ready to move things back, and here is my dilemma...
The old tank is a reef ready system with a corner overflow and custom pipe/float system which works well (and is absolutely silent). The temp tank is NOT reef ready, but was well drilled (one IN and two drains, all with nice bulkheads, 1.5", etc) - nice... I have been trying to figure out how to make this temp tank work, since I'd like to buy back the corner overflow space (given the fact that a 75 isn't all that large).
<Okay, I hear you!>
I haven't been able to find much on how to configure the drains so that they will operate SILENTLY (my sole requirement). On the outside of the tank, the drain plumbing already has an upwards facing T with some removable pipes that serve to vent the system. I have found that they gurgle a bit. I am SURE it must be possible to address this, but am not entirely sure how to do so.
Here is my plan: cover the vents with caps that have small holes with airline tubing with valves on them, then adjust until silent.
<If the noise is coming from the airlines there is a simple solution, not so simple to explain in text, but I will try. Take a 1-2” length of PVC pipe and put a cap on both ends. Next, on one end, drill a hole just large enough to slip your airline into. Then on the other end drill the same sized hole and slip another piece of the tubing in there. This acts as a muffler, much the same as used in cars. It sounds idiotically simple, but it does work very well.>
Will this plan *completely* address the noise issue while also responding well to any possible fluctuations in pump output?
<The above will fix any noise issues with the airline. If you are getting noise from the drains themselves, you need something inside the tank to keep the drain from being open to the air in the room. Something as simple as a PVC elbow in the bulkhead, with the open end facing down into the water. Pump fluctuations should not make a difference in anything but the water level.>
I have a Poseidon PS3 one floor (and ~45 feet) away from my display system.
If it will NOT completely address the noise issue, do you have any alternate suggestions for how to configure this drilled tank (or should I just use my reef-ready tank with the corner overflow)?
<Try the above, run from the “reef ready”!>
many thanks!
Jim Gray
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Re: Plumbing Options/Overflow, noise f'  9/22/08
Thanks for the tips-
<Very welcome.>
I have a follow-on question-
<Okay.>
I am finding that I have some noise by introducing air via airline hose. The noise is primarily in the plumbing and in my sump. I can add some pipe insulation around the flexible hose the noise is coming from, and I can probably live with the noise in my sump (but I'd rather do it the RIGHT way).
<Pipe insulation does help. If it is the turbulence within the pipe itself, a rubberized undercoating (spray or roll on) on the pipe will help this too. Also just anchoring/attaching the line to the stand or wall will cut down on this noise. With a properly set up overflow, this line noise is typically all that is heard.>
I am presuming that I'd really rather go full siphon, if possible (this would be the quietest situation, right - no turbulence at all?), but either of my drain hoses running full siphon beat out my pump. By that, I mean that the tank will drain down to bottom of an elbow in one of my drains. I am thinking of adding a valve inline to my main return and trimming it back a little until I can run it at full siphon, keeping the other return dry, as a pure emergency line. Doing this seems a little fragile (as does this whole system, to be honest). I guess it presumes that my pump output
will be relatively constant (which I suppose it should be) and that I have an emergency drain (which I do).
<This will not work, you have made half my point for me here! The problem is twofold. First, the siphon will inherently change or fail. The pump output changes (clogged or dirty) or the overflow line has buildup inside, maybe becomes clogged altogether. The pump fails or slows and you end up with a maddening flushing noise, the overflow line has the slightest issue and water is on the floor. The second problem with this “overflow overclocking” is the idea of a safety drain. If this safety drain relies on a siphon it assumes the siphon will start. Many times it will not. If the safety drain is gravity fed it will not keep up with the flow from the full siphon drain if the first overflow fails. Take a 1.5” bulkhead. It will flow 750 gravity fed, over 1200 siphon fed. This is quite a margin to account for.>
At any rate - does this sound like a good idea?
<Nope, not in my house.>
What do others with this problem do?
<Take the steps mentioned above to cut down on the pipe noise.>
thanks-
Jim
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Re: Plumbing Options/Overflow 9/23/08
Ok - I will try to make this my last question on this topic - appreciate your help/patience!
<Heee, no problem.>
Turns out that the noise in the sump (or pipes) is NOT going to palatable.
<Does your drain line(s) run under the water in the sump?>
The sump is right under our bedroom, and the air traveling through the line and into the sump was not subtle (not a good night's sleep, unf). So, I am going to have to work a little harder to solve this problem...
Let's start at the beginning-
I actually have 1" bulkheads (sorry for the previous misinformation).
<Quite a difference, plan on 300 gph per quietly/safely. The volume through these is likely the culprit, a 1” bulkhead makes little if any noise with the correct amount of flow through it.>
Each of them exits to a T, pointing up to provide a vent, then they elbow down.
I have been experimenting with capping those vents and drilling various size and numbers of holes for airline tubing.
<You should, 3/16” inner diameter at the most for the flow that will work through these.>
This clearly helps a lot...
This supports the gravity fed approach, but forces me to introduce air into the lines, which is noisy in the plumbing and upon exit in the sump.
<To a point.>
I am (just like everyone else, right?) looking for a silent, safe solution to getting water from my tank to my sump (which is, again, in my basement, on the other side of my house).
<Yes, this is what most want.>
My previous solution worked pretty well on this front - I had a reef ready system which had a custom standpipe that someone had worked up - it had a large pipe that slid over the stand pipe, and had a Styrofoam top on it, such that it would rise and open more holes as the water rose. It worked very well - was completely silent and (I believe) operated at full siphon.
<Sounds like the case.>
There was a backup pipe in the same chamber in case it needed it. There was also a valve beneath it to adjust the output. I guess this is similar to what I was thinking of doing, perhaps you are saying that my previous system was fragile/risky.
<It was, a modicum of luck here.>
May well have been - but it did run well for 2 years without any issues.
Key question:
Is there any way that I can rig a reliable system that will not have air in the lines?
<One siphon line to two gravity fed emergency drains, but this really should not be necessary. Even then you will be tuning here and there.>
Not having air in the lines appears to be required for a quiet system, unless I am missing something (entirely possible).
<Hmm, no, we have covered the bases between the two emails. It does sound to me you either need a larger drain or less flow. Otherwise soundproofing or the siphon, the choice is yours.>
thanks-
Jim
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Re: Plumbing Options/Overflow 9/24/08
Hi Scott-
<<Hello again Jim.>>
<snip>
Key question:
Is there any way that I can rig a reliable system that will not have air in the lines?
<One siphon line to two gravity fed emergency drains, but this really should not be necessary. Even then you will be tuning here and there.>
Not having air in the lines appears to be required for a quiet system, unless I am missing something (entirely possible).
<Hmm, no, we have covered the bases between the two emails. It does sound to me you either need a larger drain or less flow. Otherwise soundproofing or the siphon, the choice is yours.>
</snip>
This been very helpful!
Based on our conversation (and the many things I have been reading lately), I have decided to implement the following system-
1) add a gate valve to one of my returns and run it at siphon, tweaking/constraining it a fair amount to match the output of my pump note: did that already and it works well - easy to adjust and totally silent
2) use the second return as emergency only, elbow tube pointing up, gravity fed (cap to minimize noise, but with several wide airline hoses to allow sufficient air).
note: I am doing this because you indicated that the siphon might not start (which I did not know - what will happen if it doesn't?)
<<It very well may not.>>
3) given your cautions, and for safety's sake, I will add a float valve that shuts off my return pump if the water level in the main system gets too high.
4) I will probably add (at some point) an internal overflow so that the water level in my tank is constant and I am skimming off of the surface.
I believe this combination of steps solves the problem and meets my requirements:
1) totally silent (once I fix the fact that some air is leaking through the stem of my gate valve)
2) safe (once I add the float valve shutoff switch)
3) no additional draining/drilling required
4) don't have to reduce system flow (hard to believe I am getting too much turnover with so much head!) I would much rather solve this by dialing back my overflow, not dialing back my pump's output...
I know this isn't quite what you are recommending, but I believe it to be the solution that best meets my (growing) set of requirements, based on our conversation.
<<All I can do is educate you on from my experience, the end choice is yours. This sounds like a unique solution that is workable.>>
thanks again for your help!
Jim Gray
<<Welcome, have fun with this, Scott V.>>

Bonding Acrylic to Glass 7/17/08
HI there,
<Hello.>
Hope you’re having a good day. I wanted to know what’s the best thing to glue acrylic to glass? I have a glass aquarium and I want to build external coast-to-coast on it using acrylic. Can you please help me?
<You could use a two part epoxy gel such as 5 min epoxy, although I would not. For an external overflow do consider using glass and silicone, this will make a much more reliable bond to keep water off your floor!>
Thanks
Ghazni
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Re: Had enough noise...Need help!!! Reading 06/14/08
Thanks very much for your quick response, hmmm... I'm quite surprise you never heard of Clear for Life tanks, maybe this is just a popular brand here locally in So Calif (LA).
<Rich is gone evidently... I have heard of this make... not nearly as popular as Tru-vu/Aquaplex or SeaClear/Tradewind in Ca...>
I'm not really good on posting pictures in the computer but I guess I will just give you a measurement... the chamber is sort of like a triangular in shape that measure (picture a pyramid shape w/ flat tops and not pointed) the top is 6 1/2" and the bottom is 10 1/2" , the two sides are of equal measurements of 5 1/2". I did not follow any instructions, I kinda do it my self (own design) put like 12 holes around the pipe and that was it... I just want to start the tank and then start shopping around for a good standpipe, that's when I ran into your website .... actually thru Wet Web Media... if you search Clear for Life in there you will probably track down this brand. I will cc them in in this email so that maybe they can also give you a better description on what I'm talking about... they are very good advisers for hobbyist like me.
<Good>
Hi Crew: I'm emailing Mr Richard Durso regarding my tank's overflow noise issue, I'm in desperate quest for help on my standpipe as it is creating a lot of noise, they are not familiar with Clear for Life tanks so I am hoping that if you can give us an extra hand on explaining how this tank is set up, you see I'm a regular at your site and this tank is often mentioned on some of the topic...so again pls help.
Thank you all.
In quest for peace,
Jun
<... aspirating such pipes is covered over and over on the site: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
scroll down to Plumbing and read. Bob Fenner>

Sealing Bottom Bulkheads 6/5/08
Hi guys... great website, fantastic resource!
<Hello Chris, thank you!>
I am in the process of cleaning/rebuilding and re-plumbing an 80 gallon acrylic hex. The previous owner had three holes drilled into the bottom for a canister filter and air lines, which I plan to reuse.
<OK>
My question/concern/greatest fear is sealing these bulkheads properly. My local aquatic store sold me the appropriate bulkheads to replace the old ones, and I carefully scraped all of the old silicone that was used to seal the original ones. I wasn't able to get the surface as smooth as new acrylic, but I feel I got the holes to an acceptable level of smoothness for a proper seal.
<Your leak test will tell you.>
I used a liberal amount of silicone grease on the gaskets of the new bulkheads, and have leak tested them to ensure they are leak free. They appear to be fine so far. I hand-tightened the nut on the bulkhead just enough to ensure a good seal without deforming the gasket.
<Perfect. The silicone grease is very handy for preventing gasket chafing or binding while tightening the bulkheads.>
My question is... is this the appropriate solution for long-term safety?
<Yes.>
I feel that I have done an adequate job of sealing it up, but I am mostly concerned about leak-free longevity. The tank is still empty, so now is the time for me to make changes if I'm going to. Is there something else I can/should do?
<Some advocate for the use of silicone (not grease) to seal up bulkheads. I personally use the exact method you describe above. You are far more likely to tear the tank down for dozens of reasons well before a bulkhead leak will be of concern. Have fun, Scott V.>
.:|Chris|:.

Re: New Predator Tank Stocking, actually plumbing/overflow Advice   10/29/06
Thanks for all your advice Bob, where can I send your Christmas present??
<Mmm, the Red Cross?>
On the comments about my 'emergency drain' on my smaller tank.  I think perhaps you misread what I was getting at.  I already have a corner overflow with a drain out the bottom of my tank to my sump.  My water level in my overflow remains at approximately 3" during normal operation.  I am thinking of putting my emergency drain within the overflow compartment perhaps about 5" from the bottom of the overflow on the back or side of the glass.  If there was a power failure... Simply my pump would not continue to fill my tank and tank water would lower to the level of my overflow draining out the bottom drain.  It wouldn't have any effect on the emergency bulkhead drain.  The only instance in which the emergency bulkhead would come into play would be if the strainer on the primary bulkhead drain would become clogged thus allowing the overflow water to rise beyond 5" and then the water would have the same drainage capacity as my primary overflow.
<Ah, I see now>
Correct?  Two 1 1/4" drains on a 90 gallon tank should be sufficient since my primary drain already easily handles the tank flow?
<Yes>
On my 200gallon tank, which is becoming the predator tank I described below, I only have the one drain and my pump that would be rated at 1,775gph overflows the overflow and raises the tank water and runs my sump dry.  Thank god I did a trial run on freshwater and nothing else is in the tank.  I've emptied my freshwater and someone's coming out on Friday to drill a second 1 1/2" drain on this tank.
<I'd have multiple... oh, I see this addressed below>
I'm wondering though, If my existing drain is not sufficient to handle the water flow, adding a second drain would handle the water inflow... But if either one of them becomes clogged... My sump will run dry.  I was so paranoid of my 200 gallon tank overflowing and flooding my developed basement... I made it virtually impossible to overflow my tank... Pretty much in every instance my sump will run dry long before my tank overflows.  Is it better to add as second hole within the existing overflow several inches up the back of it?
<I'd keep at the same level.>
  Should I possibly add another overflow box within the tank and add a third drain?  i.e. one overflow contains two drains and the other overflow contains one drain?
<Yes>
3 drains total and obviously the highest positioned drain serving as my emergency drain?
Dave
<A good plan. BobF>

Marine Plumbing, drains/overflows...  10/24/06
     Hey there, I mailed you quite a while with a question on waterproofing a homemade sump. Thanks for the advice you gave me, it worked out well if you remember.. I was thinking about getting my sump rhino lined.. yes it sounds dumb now).
<Actually... polyethylene... just expensive in HI>
Anyway, I was hopping you would be able to give me a little more of that great advice. I did lots of searching on your site but its a little hard to find the right search words.. all the wrong topics keep coming up. So, the problem... I currently have a 240gal 24x24x96 tank. My drain lines cannot handle the amount of water my pump is putting into the tank.
<... not unusual a situation>
I have two 1.5" drains with Durso style standpipes in the overflow boxes. The pump is the SUPER quiet sequence dart. The pump is pushing water up through about 6 feet of head, which according to the pumps flow charts should be giving me somewhere near 2400gph. Now a 1.5" drain should give me 60gpm right ?
<Mmm, no... not in the real world>
(I got that on your site with another person you helped out) Then two 1.5" drains should give me 120 gpm or 7200gph. Now considering that my pump is pumping out at around 2400gph I know I have a design flaw. Even if the pump had no head its max output is rated at 3600 gph which is still way under what my overflows should be able to do. So here it goes, ill start with the left side overflow and run you down the pipes.
     The standpipes drains about 1" below the waterline. The water then falls down about 20" to the bulkhead. Under the tank I have a union placed right up against the bottom of the bulkhead. After the union the water falls 6" down to a 45elbow then travels 6" horizontally to another 45elbow, through a bulkhead with another 45elbow sending the water falling 15" or so to a submerged output. I'm going to be putting a micron bag on this line. The submerging keeps it nice and quiet.
<Yes>
     The overflow on the right is identical until you get past the union on the underside of the tank. After that union the water drops about 6" to a 45elbow then about 8" horizontally to another 45elbow sending it (still horizontally) to a tee. The tee has unions on both side and 45elbows going into two bulkheads for the two separate chambers of my wet/dry. To do something about the noise and the velocity of water tearing the blue filter pad to shreds) I have two small bowls that sit on the wet/dries blue filter, the bulkheads output are submerged in these bowls about 2".
<Good technique>
     So to sum it up, the left side has two bulkheads, one union and three 45elbows to a submerged output. The right side has 3 bulkheads( two are on separate lines after the tee) four 45elbows ( two on separate lines after the tee) three unions, and one tee, going into a submerged output ( really didn't mean for this to start sounding like a riddle hehe). All the plumbing is in 1.5" and I though that maybe the air holes at the top of the standpipes weren't big enough.
<Mmmm...>
So I took the tops off  and let the noise all out. It still nearly overflowed my tank. Could it be that my standpipes need more head pressure to deliver more flow?
<No/pe>
should I try to lower them?
<Won't help much... not appreciably>
Or could it be that having both my lines submerged has left the air nowhere to go but up making it hard for water to go down? I don't know but, Am hopping you do.
<No more hopping/hoping...>
     The last time you gave me advice you mentioned you have a home on the big island.
<Yes, in Holualoa... on the 180... just down from K. Komo market>
I hope you weren't there for the quake and your house is ok. anyway... hoping for some good advice over on Oahu.. take care
<Thank you... What you "really" need are more and or larger overflows... two, make that three 2" inside diameter... the rest of the plumbing configuration detailed is fine... not contributing to your lack of flow potential... Either re-drilling the tank and re-doing the plumbing or changing the delivered water to the main tank (a smaller pump, diverting part of the flow... a restriction valve...) are your easy alternatives. A hui ho! Bob Fenner in Thailand>
Mahalo nui loa -Chris

R2: Hard Plumbing...Soft Plumbing...Pump Intakes...Bulkheads - 10/20/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hello Ken>>
Thanks again.
<<Always welcome>>
Few more questions if it is ok?
<<Sure>>
What do you suggest that I use from my 1" bulkhead return to my sump in terms of piping or tubing.  The bulkhead is pretty much right on top of the sump.  Do I use PVC straight down, or angle it somewhat, or tubing.
<<I would use rigid PVC straight in to the sump with a 45-degree ell on the end positioned just below the water's surface.  The ell helps to clear bubbles so they aren't trying to go back up the pipe/creating resistance like a "straight-in shot" would>>
I am asking the question based on what may be the quietest with the standpipe in the tank.
<<Understood>>
I thought I read somewhere that straight down was not the best option.
<<Thus the reason for the ell/for placing the output below the surface>>
When I fill the tank with water the first time and run the system to check for leaks:
A) Can I keep this water and go with it or do I need to change it due to new tank, tubing, piping, etc.
<<Should be fine to "keep">>
I was wondering if there is anything that could be bad for the live rock or livestock once I stock the tank?
<<Mmm...be sure to follow proper cycling protocol for newly established systems>>
B) How long can I run the system without lighting (except room lighting) without putting anything into the tank?
<<Theoretically speaking...indefinitely...but I like to put light on my rock while curing/cycling the tank, and let the natural algae progression take its course>>
I was wondering if I would get algae if I ran it for a couple of three days with nothing in it, as I am not sure what day I am getting my rock.
<<No matter...will happen eventually>>
I used to use Reef Crystals many years ago when I had a reef tank. Is this still good?
<<Will be fine>>
My tank is 90 gallons with a Marine Technical Concepts HSA-1000 skimmer, and their Pro-Cal calcium reactor, Maristar HQI (2x250 watts) and T5 (2x54 watts), and two Tunze Turbelle Stream 6000's with controller.  How many pounds of live rock do I need?
<<I like to go with a "bit less" than most would suggest for reasons of aesthetics/giving the organisms room to move around/grow.  I would start with about 60lbs of a premium rock and make adjustments as need from there>>
Is it 1.5 lbs per gallon or less than that?
<<A useless measurement in my opinion...to many variables (weight of the rock, type system/ancillary equipment employed, species/type animals, etc.)>>
It is supposed to be Fiji.
<<Should be fine...though some regard this rock as "bargain" rock>>
It is from LFS and it is as cured as you are going to see from a store.
<<I would still expect/allow for this in your tank...albeit likely diminished>>
I will also use the packaged live sand too (for aesthetics mostly), maybe about 3/4" or so (depth ok?).
<<Yes>>
Is the Carib-Sea live sand or the Nature's Ocean a better choice?
<<Waste of money in my opinion...use dry aragonite and let the rock seed the sand>>
Is there a certain grain size that I should be using, and do I have to put this under the rock or can I put the rock in the tank first, and then the sand up to it?
<<A mix of grades from sugar-size to 2mm is fine...and yes, for stability placing the rock on the tank bottom and then adding the sand works fine>>
I think I used up my quota of questions.  Thank you so much for your help.
<<No worries mate...we're here to help>>
Regards,
Ken
<<Be chatting.  Eric Russell>>

Hard Plumbing... Soft Plumbing... Pump Intakes... Bulkheads - 10/19/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hello Ken>>
Thanks for the response.
<<Quite welcome>>
In between I sent you my email and saw your response I had discovered the world of flexible PVC.
<<Ah...>>
I used this with PVC glue.
<<Yep>>
I used 3/4" and 1" for my two pumps.  I did a smooth curve (not a loop).
<<Excellent>>
It probably took 15" -18" to make the smooth curve.  I would imagine that this should be ok?
<<Will be fine>>
Does this stuff definitely hold?
<<If you installed it correctly, yes...is as strong or stronger than schedule-40 PVC hard pipe>>
I also put a union on the suction side.  Is this ok?
<<Yes...and a good idea to facilitate maintenance of the pump>>
I figure that in case I ever have to take the pump out this would be the simplest.
<<Indeed>>
I would imagine that I should put a ball valve somewhere on the discharge side.  What do you think?
<<I agree, but not a ball-valve...instead install a "gate-valve" as this will give you a much finer control of the flow.  You should also consider placing a union between the pump-discharge and the gate-valve for the same reason you placed one on the intake side of the pump>>
I know some people would say put a valve on both ends of the pump due to sump drainage if the pump is removed but I could always take some PVC pipe and a 90 degree elbow and some more pipe and put it higher than the water line.
<<If this is your "return pump" it should not be an issue as you should have the sump plumbed in such a way as to hold all the transient water when the pump is off.  Thus, once you turn off the pump and allow the tank to drain down, water from the drain line/pump intake line wouldn't be a problem>>
I am trying to keep as many "add-ons" out of my plumbing.
<<Always good>>
Of course I need to lose some gph anyway since the pump is rated at 790 GPH at 5-feet of head and the tank can only handle 600 GPH.
<<No worries, the gate-valve will allow any final adjustment if necessary...and I think you will find that 600 GPH will be too much for the single 1" drain to handle easily>>
One more question about the standpipe with the Mega Flow.
<<Okay>>
Is this noisy?
<<Usually, yes...you will probably want to consider a modification.  Do a Google search re "Durso Standpipe" or "Stockman Standpipe"...I think both offer "kits" for these now>>
I was curious why I read about people switching to the Durso standpipe.  Do you have any ideas on this?
<<Indeed...most hobbyists find the "stock" standpipes supplied by the tank manufacturers to be about as inadequate as the throughputs themselves>>
Also, is there a trick to "tuning" either of these standpipes?
<<Should be listed on the respective websites, but generally, aspirating the drains sometimes proves helpful>>
Oh yea, and I did replace the two bulkheads that came with the tank.
<<Ah, very good>>
Thanks a lot.
Regards,
Ken
<<Pleased to share, EricR>>

Overflows and returns  11/16/06
First off, I want to thank you for all your help. This is truly a great website to help hobbyists like me. I am trying to plumb a new tank and had a question about combining lines. My tank has 2 1" returns and 2 1.5" drains. I wanted to know if I can T the 2 returns with a 1.5" PVC pipe
<Can>
and T the 2 drains into a 1.5" PVC pipe
<This I would not do... better by far to run both 1 1/2" lines down independently to the sump>
so that I have one PVC pipe draining into my sump and one return pump. I know you usually want to T 2 smaller sizes into a larger sized PVC pipe but since my returns are only 1" I wanted to know if I could T the 2 1.5" drains with a 1.5" PVC.
<I would not... too much likelihood of restricting the flow to too large a degree. Bob Fenner>

70 gallon plumbing  9/20/05
Hi Bob!
Do you think that two  3/4 inch bulkhead overflows will be enough to handle the output from a 3100 Rio pump that puts out 900 gal per hour?
<Ah, no>
Do you have any bad advice for making a sump out of Rubbermaid containers?
<... posted on WWM... Bob Fenner>
Thank you for any input!
-Steve Balogh