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FAQs about True Puffer Disease 2

FAQs on: Tetraodont Disease 1, True Puffer Disease 2, True Puffer Health 3, Puffer Health 4, Puffer Health 5, Puffer Health
FAQs on Marine Puffer Disease by Category: Diagnosis, Environment, Nutrition, Social, Trauma, Pathogenic, Treatments

Related Articles: Puffers in General, Puffer Care and Information, A Saltwater Puffer Primer: Big Pufferfish! by Mike Maddox, True Puffers, Freshwater Puffers, Burrfishes/Porcupinefishes, Tobies/Sharpnose Puffers, Boxfishes, Puffer Care and Information by John (Magnus) Champlin, Things That My Puffers Have Told Me by Justin Petrey,

Related FAQs: True Puffers 1, True Puffers 2, True Puffers 3, Tetraodont Identification, Tetraodont Behavior, Tetraodont Compatibility, Tetraodont Selection, Tetraodont Systems, Tetraodont Feeding, Tetraodont Reproduction, Puffers in General, Puffer Selection, Puffer Behavior, Puffer Systems, Puffer Feeding, Puffer Disease, Puffer Dentistry, Puffer Reproduction, Freshwater Puffers, Burrfishes/Porcupinefishes, Tobies/Sharpnose Puffers, Boxfishes

The Clown Trigger, Balistoides conspicillum. How much disease in puffers is brought on by stress from mis-stocking?

Hiding dog face puffer and ammonia -- 07/26/07 Thank you in advance for you time and expertise. <Hope I can help.> My tank is a 55 gallon FOWLR (planning to upgrade to 125 ASAP) <I hope so. Have you ever seen adult dog face puffers?> with a HOT Remora protein skimmer. Specific gravity 1.021 <I'd raise that.>, PH 8.4, Ammonia 10 <That's a serious problem if true, even 0.10 would be concerning.>, Nitrate 10, Nitrite 0, CA 460, KH 9. It is stocked with 1 Blue Damsel , a Foxface Rabbit Fish, and a Dog Faced Puffer. My problem (if in fact it is a problem) is after 4 weeks of constantly swimming out and about in the tank my Puffer is staying inside my old ship decoration except when he comes out to eat. Up until this week he has been very active and swimming along side the Rabbit Fish throughout the entire day. He did sit on the protein skimmer pump after eating but never stayed in the ship. I'm not sure if the Puffer and Rabbit fish are friends or just keeping an eye on each other <Likely the latter>. There does not seem to be any aggression. In fact the Rabbit Fish has started spending more time in the ship with the Puffer. Is it possible I'm reading this wrong and the Rabbit fish is irritating the Puffer? It just seems strange that after roaming the tank comfortably for a month he would take to hiding. I was feeding him a couple of pieces of krill every day but changed to every other day because of nitrate and ammonia numbers rising. Could the change in feeding cause this? <Ammonia is very toxic and must never be in a tank with fish. Possibly the reason for unusual behaviour (although some puffers may hide half of the day). See http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nh3marfaqs.htm and http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm for solutions. Act as soon as possible.> What other foods do you suggest to give a bigger variety? <Krill is not sufficient as the only food item. Try mussels, clams, prawns, squid and other types of frozen sea food. Add some vitamins now and then.> Could that also be a problem? <Yes. Unvaried diet will probably lead to deficiency related diseases.> He did eat one of my crabs this week and up until now he had not paid them any attention. He looks great and has a great appetite. I love this fish and don't want anything to happen to him. Not only has he become the center point of my tank but it has caused the Rabbit Fish to be more visible and lively. Lamar. <Address your ammonia issue, change the diet and upgrade your tank and you will probably (and hopefully) have a happy puffer again. Cheers, Marco.>

Puffer in Quarantine   6/21/07 Hi Bob and Crew; First, of course, I want to thank you for the service that you provide to the Aquarium Hobby. As a refresher, the tank is 90 Gal FOWLR, Corner Overflow with a Tidepool 2 Sump, Tunze DOC 9005 Skimmer in sump (not collecting much skimmate), Prizm Skimmer in tank (actually working very well). Tank, being repopulated after sitting fallow for 6 weeks following an Ich outbreak, currently contains only a 10 inch Snowflake Moray. I currently have a Dog face puffer in quarantine (only 20 gal), where s/he has been for about 12 days. I feed the Puffer every other day, with a feeding stick, so nothing remains in the tank uneaten. The problem I am having is keeping Nitrates down in the QT tank, even with daily 50% - 75% water changes. In fact, the DFP chooses to "poop" right after the water change, which doesn't help the Nitrates. Based on the fact that the Puffer appears free of external parasites, but must be suffering from the Nitrates, would you curtail the QT and add him/her to the display, or would you wait 30 days? Thanks Again. Roy <I would end the quarantine, dip this fish in transit and place this Tetraodont. BobF>
Re: Puffer in Quarantine   6/21/07
Bob, Thanks for the quick reply. When I got home last night, much to my chagrin, I notice Ich on the DPF's Dorsal and Pectoral fins in the QT tank! S/he had been perfectly clean, but maybe because of the stress of the high Nitrates? <Maybe a factor... but the Crypt would have had to be present...> Since I do not want to use copper, I gave the DFP a PH adjusted Freshwater Formalin dip, while I changed the QT tank water. I then removed the carbon and treated with 2 tsp Formalin per 10 gallons? <Yikes! Way too much... see WWM re formalin use> To you think this in any way will be efficacious? I should have moved him a day sooner! <Ah, decidedly NOT! You would have introduced the asymptomatic infestation! RMF> Roy
Re: Puffer in Quarantine
Bob, The Kordon's Formalin 3 Bottles says that it can be used up to double the usual dosage of 1 tsp per 10 gallons. I actually used something closer to 1 1/2 Tsp per 20 Gallons. <... Please read where you were referred to... 37% stock soln... too much... DO increase aeration, DO keep an eye on the animals exposed...> Has anyone ever had luck with nosickfish Ich cure, aside/since last posted in FAQ? I wouldn't use it in my display, but id it works in the QT the $52.00 may be worth it. Roy <See our notes re... the search tool, indices. RMF>
Re: Puffer in Quarantine
Bob, Thanks again, When I saw him last night all the spots on his fins were gone <... likely just cycled off...> and he was actually hungry for the first time since I got him. He had one remaining embedded cyst that came of this morning after doing a 50 percent change and re-dosing appropriately. My tank sat fallow for 8 weeks, and reintroduced my snowflake (which was treated for Ich in the qt while the display sat) 4 weeks ago. Since I originally used water from my display for my quarantine tank, it is conceivable that my display still has a sub clinical infestation (the moray does not look or act infested, although the Ich could have come in with the Puffer (he looked clean and was dipped before QT). <Is possible> Based on this I was thinking of adding the Puffer to the display as soon as all external signs are gone, <Please... stop... READ re Cryptocaryon life cycle... on WWM, elsewhere... You do NOT want an ongoing infested system...> immediately breaking down the QT tank, sterilizing it, and re-preparing and cycling with non-display water, so I would have it available immediately if I needed to either let the display sit fallow one more time, or nuke it and start it up again. <No sense... you won't be able to safely add any more fish life to your display system> Since it isn't unusual to have some parasites in an otherwise healthy system, since I keep up my husbandry, healthy specimens should stay that way. I only plan to add a 3 or so specimens of a smaller shoaling species when I find something that can coexists with the snowflake and puffer? Does this idea have any merit or am I just rationalizing a way to add a possibly diseased specimen to my display. Indebted as always, Roy <Have just skipped down... Read. BobF> Re: Puffer in Quarantine   6/25/07 Bob, Thanks for the quick reply. When I got home last night, much to my chagrin, I notice Ich on the DPF's Dorsal and Pectoral fins in the QT tank! S/he had been perfectly clean, but maybe because of the stress of the high Nitrates? Since I do not want to use copper, I gave the DFP a PH adjusted Freshwater Formalin dip, while I changed the QT tank water. I then removed the carbon and treated with 2 tsp Formalin per 10 gallons? To you think this in any way will be efficacious? I should have moved him a day sooner! Roy <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cryptpuffs.htm and the linked files above. BF>

Sick Dog Face Puffer   -- 06/19/07 Hi, <Hello there> Been searching the site and am not sure of the next step. Details PH: 8.2, Nitrite:0, Ammonia:0, Nitrate: 60 ppm, <Way too high... toxic, debilitating... see WWM re> SG: 1.021. <Too low... See WWM...> Doing water changes to bring Nitrates down. <There are other, better means... See...> I have had a dogface puffer for about 5 years. She is the only inhabitant of my tank save for a few snails and crabs. Last new thing I added was snails. I also added them to my seahorse tank and reef tank without any problems. About 3 weeks ago, she stopped eating. I checked the parameters and Nitrates were a bit high so I did some water changes and figured it was the nitrates, constipation, swallowed a snail and it got stuck, her teeth need to be cut (one is chipped) or just a plain old hunger strike. <Good mix of possibilities> I have been watching her closely and ordered supplies to put her to sleep just in case I have to either tube feed or cut her teeth. She is still not eating. <These incidents do often take some time...> Yesterday, her eyes started to look bad. Not the usual bright and shiny, a little dull. <Good observation, bad sign> Today I noticed that she seemed to be trying to poop. Her anus was very large and it looked like possibly her intestines or something that she was trying to void. Nothing came out. I attempted to massage that area, but only made her puff up so I stopped. I have made gruel and attempted to tube feed her, but she did not eat any. <Mmmm, this mash needs to be injected/inserted by way of a plastic catheter of size... past the gullet, back of throat... While holding the animal gently near the surface, underwater...> Now I am thinking parasites. I have both Fenbendazole and Praziquantel in my fishy medicine cabinet. <Whoa... after five years in captivity... where would worms come from?> Do you think I should treat? Should I just treat the hospital tank water or put my puffer to sleep and tube feed her a gruel with a dewormer added? <Worth adding while you're at it...> If I put her under, is there a way I can tell if it is an intestinal blockage or prolapsed intestine/rectum? <Not likely... these animals have VERY distensible parts of their lumens, G.I. tracts... "this too shall pass"> Thanks for your site and all the excellent advice in your books. Jennifer <Thank you my friend. Life to you. Bob Fenner>

I have a quick question about hyposalinity and my dog face puffer   5/19/07 Hey guys, great site! I have a quick question about hyposalinity and my dog face puffer. He has come down with a case of Ick (lucky... he is the only one), <Ah, no... your system is infested... all fishes "have"... Just sub-symptomatically at present> so I moved him from his 100 gallon main tank to a 30 gallon with live sand and rock (worried about ammonia here as he is a pretty big guy). Right now I have the spg at around 1.019. I know that copper is not a good treatment for him as he is scaleless, but I also know that hyposalinity can kill too, (not to mention it's not always a permanent solution to Ick). <Agreed> I was wondering if I should A: leave him in his QT with normal salinity and give him FW dips <No...> or B: slowly bring salinity down to 1.010 and risk killing biological filtration? <Not either...> Maybe I should try a different cure? <Bingo!> Also, I will be moving in two weeks. My plan is this: remove all livestock from 100 gallon (wrasse, niger trigger, df puffer who is in qt, and two damsels) and put into qt tanks for 45 days. This should kill any Ick that might be lurking in my sand/rock, right?   <Maybe> Then my plan is to give everyone (except the puffer) a one week <Not long enough...> copper treatment (preventative strike), bag them up, and move them 20 minutes down the road to my new place. I would then put them back (one every two days starting with the puffer) into the newly re-set main tank. Do you think that will prevent them form getting Ick? Thanks, and any advice you want to throw in would be helpful!                                                                   -Jay <I do have helpful advice... For you to READ what is posted on WWM... For Crypt and in particular Puffers and Crypt... Start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm scroll down to the royal blue line... Bob Fenner>

Tank with puffers, a moray eel and Amyloodinium (velvet) -- 05/08/07 Hello <Hi Amanda.>, I believe that our tank has velvet. We have a dogface puffer, a stars-n-stripes puffer, a tiger reef eel, live rock, snails and hermit crabs. Our tank is 125 gallons. I want to use CopperSafe to clean out the whole tank. The directions say to add it only once and it treats for a whole month. <If you treat your display tank, you will kill a lot of your beneficial bacteria. Monitor ammonia and nitrite if you treat it that way.> I know I need to take out the live rock, snails, and hermit crabs and I need to clean out the tank very well after the treatment is over.  My questions are - Can I leave my puffers and eel in their 125 gal tank while I am treating it? <The moray eel should not be treated with copper, except if it shows symptoms. Puffers can be treated carefully, but bare in mind that overdosing can be lethal. It's appropriate to get a testing kit that can be used with your copper product and to monitor the copper concentration at least once daily.> My quarantine tank is only 25 gallons and if I stick all of them in there, besides being stressed, doesn't it defeat the purpose of the quarantine by only treating the fish? <No. The best would be to treat the two puffers in a bare bottom quarantine tank with copper and to let the display tank run fallow for about 6 weeks (without using copper in this tank). If the moray eel does not show symptoms, I'd leave it in the display. That way you are taking the risk that the parasites may use the moray as a host, but this case is rather improbable due to the high resistance of these fish against Amyloodinium. If you do not want to take this risk, you need a second quarantine tank for the eel, which is not treated with copper.> Do I still give them freshwater dips to get the parasite <off>, while I am treating their tank? <Such dips can be done in severe cases to get rid of some of the parasites.> Do I dip the eel? <If it shows any symptoms: yes.> How do I dip an eel? <A bucket of well aerated, pH and temperature adjusted freshwater. Catch the eel with a net and transfer it to the bucket. If you cannot catch it with a net, lure it out into a clean bottle with a large enough opening and a piece of its favourite food and transfer it. Put a lid on the bucket. Leave it there for about half an hour to one hour. Return it to the tank.> Do I also have to wait a month before putting the live rock and the invertebrates back in or how long do I have to wait? <If you treat your display with copper, you should filter with fresh activated carbon after 4 weeks and hope none of the copper remains in the substrate.> I know this needs to be treated now, but my puffers are my babies and I don't want to hurt them. <I'd consider what I described above as the best way. Also read http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cuduration.htm and http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm and the related FAQs.> I know I have a lot of questions for y'all. I would appreciate your help, so I can make my fish happy again. <Hope they pull through.> Thank you so much for your time. <You are welcome. Marco.> Sincerely, Amanda.

Tetrodotoxin   4/19/07 Just a short note: While reading the daily FAQs (as usual) I recognized in a mail I answered the name of a puffer toxin has been changed from "Tetrodotoxin" to "Tetraodotoxin". I am aware that the name should be derived from Tetraodon (four teeth), which is the scientific name for a puffer genus, but the scientists, who discovered the toxin in 1909 named it "Tetraodotoxin" (they were Japanese and Tetrodon was used in that time just as often as Tetraodon). So, this is the official name of the substance used in toxicology internationally. When talking we use the abbreviation TTX anyway. Cheers, Marco. <Thank you for this Marco... Little doubt this error is of my origination, perpetuation... I likely accepted a mis-spelling into this computers spellchecker dictionary. Bob Fenner>

Blind puffer -- 04/13/07 My black puffer seems to be blind although he seems to be perfectly healthy. It started after a stressful event when I had to trim his teeth. He stressed out and got kinda sick looking so I put him in my hospital tank. <Did you anaesthetize him properly? Read the two WWM articles on trimming puffer teeth, if you have not yet. Did you accidentally touch his eyes or have you used to much force while trimming the teeth?> He looks great now, but isn't eating on his own. If I hand feed him and put it in his mouth he eats very enthusiastically. <Carry on feeding him that way. Provide a varied diet enriched with vitamins and hope the best.> I think he just can't see the food. His eyes look perfect and he moves them around. You'd never guess there was anything wrong with this fish. Ever heard of this kind of thing? <All blind puffers I have seen had cloudy or wounded eyes.> Do you think it might cure itself? <No, if he is really blind. I hope I am wrong.> Thanks for your help. <You are welcome. Good luck. Marco.> Greg.

Dogface puffer with black Ich and a lump -- 04/11/07 Hi guys. <Hi Jill. Marco here trying to help.> Over the past year I have visited your site several times. I am an aquarium novice, and after visiting your site (it only took once) I realized I had been taken as such by one of my LFSs.  I had purchased a 38g tank, let it cycle for about three months, and fell in love with a five inch (tip to tail) dog face puffer. My LFS said/told me my tank was plenty big enough, so the dog face came home with me. Sucker! <100 gallons or more would be adequate in the long run.> After one month he started sucking his fin into his gill. Then I noticed the white spots. Got it. Ich. I QT him and treated him with Quick Ich and got him healthy again, or so I thought.  I fought it for several months until my reliable LFS told me about hyposalinity, and after about four months we seemed to be Ich free. I was given a 75g tank by my neighbour (working my way up now that I know better) and moved him into it a couple of months ago. Two weeks into it I noticed a small "nodule" on the top of his body between his gills. It doesn't look like he injured himself, because his skin didn't change - no scuff marks, tears, blood - nothing.  It's just a lump. It's about 1/2 cm long, 1/4 cm wide, 1/4 cm tall. I tried to take a picture, but because it's the same color as his body, you just can't see it. About the same time I noticed the lump, he got a pretty severe case of black Ich. <Both probably signs of a weak immune system.> I've put him and his tank mates back into the 38g for QT (2 percula clowns, 1 royal Gramma - all have been with him since the beginning) and have been treating them with CopperSafe for the last three weeks. I haven't seen any black spots on his tank mates, but the reliable LFS told me to treat everyone. I was pretty concerned about using CopperSafe because of everything I've read on your puffer forums, but they told me he would be fine. <There is no consensus about the use of copper for puffer diseases, yet.> Luckily, he is handling it like a champ, but the black Ich is still there. <Search WWM and the net for Paravortex to learn more about the black Ich parasite. You will probably find out that freshwater dips are quite effective against this Turbellarian. Your puffer can handle them if the freshwater is pH adjusted and aerated. I'd do daily at least half hour dips until it is gone and keep the display tank fallow for at least another 4-6 weeks.> The lump seems to be growing a little, and it's hard. <Provide a varied vitamin enriched diet and pristine water quality to support his immune system. Watch the lump. If it is growing, consider antibiotic baths or feeding antibiotics. For a definite diagnosis you would have to sample the lump and test it for gram negative and gram positive bacteria.> Could this be what is causing the Ich? <Read about Paravortex.> Have you ever heard of anything like this before? <Yes.> Water parameters for 75g are as follows: ammonia 0; nitrite 0; nitrate 5ppm; pH 8.2; phosphate 0; temp. 78.4.  QT parameters: ammonia 0; nitrite 0; nitrate 0; pH 8.2;  temp 78.8; phosphate 1ppm. LFS told me I could use tap water + Prime for QT, because there's no live rock in the tank. Is that right? <Read on WWM about tap water vs. RO water.> Please help me! I don't know what to do at this point, and I really want to do the right thing. Thanks, Jill. <I hope your puffer gets well again. To get additional advice you may also want to search http://www.thepufferforum.com. Good luck, Marco.>

Dog face puffer with wart like growth 03/18/07 He is rather large, approximately, 5-6 inches. He is eating very well, making a pig of himself actually. He got a little constipated the last couple of days, but has managed to move past it. <Provide a varied diet of mussels, cockles, prawns and other uncooked seafood to prevent constipation and deficiency diseases.> He is currently in a 125 gallon tank, and seems fine. <Watch your water parameters, especially ensure that the nitrates stay below 30 ppm.> He will rub his teeth against the tank sides, and make weird sneezing noises. Why is he doing this? <Natural behaviour, nothing to worry about as long as his teeth are short enough to allow him to eat.> Also, he has two white, kind of warty looking things on his tail. They have not grown or spread, and do not appear to be causing him any discomfort, doesn't even appear to notice it. Should I be concerned? <Have a look at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/viraldislymph.htm and the related FAQs. If your puffer has Lymphocystis, provide a varied diet and high water quality and he will get well by himself. You can soak his food in vitamins to support his immune system.> Otherwise, he seems to be getting along fine. Taste testing the two chocolate chip starfish every once in a while, mostly leaving them alone. He lives with 4 damsel fish, which he once on a while, half heartedly nips at, but mostly leaves alone. He sleeps in a cave on the sand, with his tale curled around him like a dog. Any advice you can offer is greatly appreciated. <I hope I could help. Cheers, Marco.> Samantha

Dogface with Whitespot? 1-7-08 I have a Dog faced Puffer which I have had for about 2 weeks now -- up till now he has been fine however recently I switched on my skimmer again and have had a few bedding in issues one of which is lots of micro bubbles. The tank has been up and running for about 6 weeks and all other fish are doing fine. All water parameters are good. The dog faced puffer seems to have lots of little white spots on it (not 100% sure if these are micro bubbles or spots). I have attached a couple of pictures. I have turned off the skimmer to remove any micro bubbles and see how he looks in the morning but I am now paranoid that it is white spot. If so want to catch it as soon as possible so I can put in quarantine and get it cured. <I don't think that these are micro bubbles due to the spots on his fins. I believe this may be white-spot but as long as he is eating well and being social I would just keep an eye out on him. If it gets worse then go ahead and quarantine.> PS- Puffer feeds well -- from my hand -- feeding him lance fish, prawns, mussel. Tank is 450L. Parameters are: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20, SG 1.023, PH 8.2 Regards, Steve <Good Luck with your puffer, Yunachin>

Re: Dog Face with Whitespot?   1/8/08 Bob, please find attached pictures taken today after the skimmer has been off for approx 18 hours -- looks better -- less spots for sure but there are still spots. <Yunachin, here. Very handsome fish!> What do you think, should I QT this fish??<Since keeping the skimmer off for as long as you did and there are still spots on the puffer I would say that it is Ich. Yes I would go ahead with treatment.> Regards to QT I have a 75 Litre bare tank and have started making RO water to fill it with. I take it I just mix up the salt, heat and a sponge type filter, add the fish -- in terms of water quality I guess I just have to do daily water changes -- any advice appreciated. <I would recommend removing some water from your main tank and putting it into your quarantine tank because you need to cycle the tank if not, taking up valuable time that you may not have. Check out this article for more details: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm ; Also here is an article on marine Ich and the many treatments that you can choose from: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm; > <Good Luck and Steve

"Normal" markings. RMF

Help! Emergency!... puffer caught on intake... env.  -12/14/07 Hey Crew, please help me! I just came home to find my dogface pufferfish stuck to a pump! He's in terrible shape! I'm sending along a picture. What do I do? Help!! **sad** Christopher <Mmm, first off: Screen the intake/s! So this doesn't recur... Next, there is not much to actually "do" re the current injury... But good general care. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/pufferdisfaqs.htm and the files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Help! Emergency! -12/14/07 Thanks for the reply Bob! I'm happy to say Doggie is looking a LOT better today. Now just looks like he has a black eye! Poor guy boxing all evening! I told him he should've taken up golf! Hehe, thanks again Christopher
<Welcome Christopher. BobF>

Puffer... Crypt, med., stkg. mistakes  11/19/07 I have a puffer that is like a mappa...I sent in pictures and y'all gave me a few possibilities. ANYWAY I have it in a new tank around 2 months old and it developed Ich. due to stress ( a cryserus <Chrysurus? The angel?> and grouper issues) I took the grouper out an began treating the tank with Quick cure. <... a huge mistake. You put formalin in a main display?> The tank is a 120 with a doss skimmer and fluidized sand filter. it has live rock <Had> in it with the angel a wrasse and a Huma. The quick cure worked the Ick spots have gone away <Uh, no> but the eyes are a bit cloudy and I am noticing that it is breathing a lot more with one side of his gills than the other a very noticeable difference.( like you can see in the gill of one and the other is almost closed) ITs appetite is still the same. I have a little ammonia spike going on in between a .00 an .25 and treating with AmQuel + any suggestions? <Yes...> We love this guy <Again... no, not by my definition of love... IF something is loved, one does their best to look after it for its sake... Not here> he is great and would hate to loose <... lose> him. Thanks Marcus <... you've poisoned your mis-stocked, over-crowded system... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cryptformcures.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: puffer 11/19/07 I understand that you are one of the leading fish experts in the country but you are assuming a lot of things and you know what assuming does. Where do you get my system is overstocked. I have a fluidized sand filter that is meant for a 300 gallons and very efficient protein skimmer not to mention a 57 watt sterilizer. Again ITs a fish only with Rock in it. I could care less about if its "alive" or not. WITH ONLY 4 fish in it. <... read re these animals natural habitats, size of system requirements... IS psychologically crowded now... Will be physiologically soon> Sorry you are having a bad morning but the reason for all my cluttered typing on the previous email is that due to me not loving my fish I read your website for 3 hours looking for something to help and it was really late for me. P.S. If I wanted a grammer <grammar> lesson I would asked Calfo (the educated one) for help. You do not have permission to publish any of my emails to you. <Live, and hopefully learn. BobF>

Puffer, Tetraodont... feeding, hlth.   11/13/07 I have had a Guinea Fowl Puffer that is about 10" long. I bought him from a shop that took him from one of their maintenance jobs when the tank owner moved out of town. I have had him about a 1 1/2 months. He was tank established 4 years in that tank before I got him. I normally feed him krill, cocktail shrimp, crab, squid, clams, and octopus. <Mmm, not complete nutritionally> I believe the crab being such a hard meat caused the problem I am having which is a possible blow out. <?> He has a large lump pinkish in color with some chunks of something in side a sack, about the thickness of a pinky about 1/4" long. He looks as if he was trying to poop and pushing out his intestines because there is no exit or opening on the sack or whatever it is. I am wondering if I should pull on the little sack or push it in I really don't want him to die. Please help me with my puffer problem. thanks tony <Mmm, I urge patience here... Puffers do consume almost everything in time in the wild... All will/does pass... What you are seeing is likely a prolapsed colon... Just wait... may take weeks, even months with a specimen of this size... Read here for something to pass the time: http://wetwebmedia.com/trupuffdgfaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Burping Your Puffer 10/14/07 Hello, <Hi Jason, Pufferpunk here> I have a dogface puffer whom I have had for about 6 years. Today I was transferring my aquarium to our new home and while introducing my puffer into the new setup, I think he ingested some air. <Never remove a puffer out of water. Always transfer in some kind of container that will keep his head under water.> He has a large swelling towards he back on the dorsum side. He is on the top of the water with this one section out of water. He is eating well but whenever he moves he is head down toward the sand and tail up toward top of water. He mainly is stationary next to the water intake going into the sump. Will he eventually release this air pocket, is this actually air? <No & yes> What should I do? Will he die? He tries to swim around the tank but keeps floating to the top. Help! <The struggle to upright himself will be extremely stressful to him. If the air isn't released manually by you, he will most probably die. Net your puffer & position it underwater with its head pointed toward the surface of the water. Carefully take hold of the puffer, supporting its entire body. Use other hand to gently nudge the stomach, rubbing toward it's mouth, to help the puffer release the air. Throughout the process, the puffer may attempt to reinflate. This is okay, because the puffer is underwater and will refill with water, further helping to expel the air. Burping a puffer larger than 6 or 7 inches, may be require the help of a few extra hands. Also, with a large puffer, cloth gloves will work better than a net, to hold the puffer. If that doesn't work, you can try holding the puffer in a vertical position underwater, by the tail & shake back & forth until it burps. Happy burping! ~PP> Thanks, Jason

White pimple like bump under my fishes mouth help! -- 09/20/07 Hi, you can see in the pictures, if you look at the clown trigger. <I see.> (who I had brought like 2 weeks ago with the white bump under his mouth <buying a sick fish is never a good idea, not quarantining it is even worse.> and wasn't eating at first, but now the last 4 days been trying to eat everything in sight) has it under he's <his> mouth (white bump). <See that, too.> The dogface puffer (who hasn't eating in like a month and a half) <That's why he's so skinny.> has a white bump under his mouth, too now (after the arrival of the clown trigger)! The white bump has depth to it and you can see it from the side. What is it? <Can't make it out clearly in the pictures. Too blurry. It could be Lymphocystis (a more or less harmless virus, bumps look like cauliflower) or (more likely) a bacterial infection. Most likely related to poor water quality. What are your nitrates? Are ammonia and nitrites 0 all the time?> Could the puffer caught this white bump from the clown trigger? <Theoretically: yes, but also possible is these bumps have a common environmental reason.> How do I treat it? <Measure your nitrates. If they are above 20 mg/l do a large water change to bring them down accordingly (e.g. if you measure 100 mg/l you have to change at least 80%). Clarify if these bumps look like Lymphocystis by comparing them to Lymphocystis pictures online and in books. If they look different, consider a treatment with antibiotics in a separate hospital tank or with antibiotic baths. Feed your fish a varied, vitamin enriched diet. As a side note: I am not a native speaker, but I think I remember 'I' as well as the beginnings of sentences should be capitalized. This could speed up our answering process. You are welcome. Marco.>

Dog face puffer -- 08/08/07 Hi my dog face puffer is not eating and he is just bumping into stuff can you guys please help me! <Hello Jordan. First things first. When fish bump into the glass, it usually means [a] the tank is either too small for the fish and they can't maneuver properly; or [b] they are alarmed and swimming desperately away from what they think is danger. Often overlooked is the fact fish have good hearing, and things like banging doors and loud appliances can alarm them profoundly. So try and cross those two things off the list first. Next up is lack of appetite. A pufferfish that will not eat is a very unusual pufferfish indeed. Dog-face puffers (Arothron spp.) are basically robust and hardy animals, but they do require all the usual things you assume for a marine fish: zero ammonia and nitrite, low nitrate, a high pH, a high level of carbonate hardness, that sort of thing. Have you checked water quality and water chemistry?> $$$$$$$$ITZ NOT EZ BEING ME$$$$$$$$$$ <It might be easier if you wrote your more poetic outpourings in actual English with proper spellings and normal grammar. Maybe you'd find your poor, tortured soul more readily listened to? Cheers, Neale>

Sick Puffer or just odd behavior?   1/28/07 Hello Crew, <Lisa> Sorry to bother you with yet another Puffer question.  My Stars and Stripes about 3 1/2 inches) is doing this odd thing......He will start at the top of the water and dive (or "swoop") down to the bottom, rubbing his belly on the crushed coral below.  I have even seen him do it a few times on the live rock.  Does he have a skin condition or something internal that is disturbing him? <Mmm, not likely> Or is he acting out with some kind of discontentment related to his tank situation? <Possibly... but more likely this fish is reacting to its own reflection...> His appetite is great (in fact, I had to separate him from the others because he was eating ALL of my crustaceans and was about to go after my beloved cleaner shrimp, who he had, for several weeks, seemed to have some affection for (allowing them to massage his back and even taking afternoon naps with them - please excuse the run-on sentence!)  I also found out that he was nibbling (but not ingesting) my LTA which never recovered and died a horrible, messy death. <These animals are incompatible> I was told that he would not get any larger than 8 inches (like the dog-face), and then learned that this is not so.  True? <This is not so...> I am considering adopting him out to somebody with a bigger tank who can give him the life he deserves, but want to make sure he is totally healthy first. <Good> Thanks for all your help and support. Lisa Crugnola <Mmm, try taping a piece of paper or such to the outside panel where this behavior is occurring... Bob Fenner>
Cleaner Damselfish  2/22/07 Hello Bob and Crew, <Hi, Pufferpunk grabbed this one from the Inbox.> I have written in before about my Stars and Stripes Puffer, "Blinky" and his odd behavior of suddenly and quickly diving down and scraping his belly on live rock and coral gravel.  Bob suggested that he might be reacting to his own reflection, although I pretty much ruled that out after hours of observing him (mostly because he will be positioned at one end of the tank and starring down the full length of the 48 inches of tank with rock, and other decorations blocking his view.  He also positions his body vertically, looking straight down at the gravel, hovering for several seconds before he takes his dive).   <Goofy, puffer-antics... or an itch caused by parasites.> Additionally, his appetite and every other part of him remains normal.  Anyway, he was doing it so much (several times trying to jump out of the tank and violently hitting the glass top) that it became disturbing to witness.  I actually had to leave the room.  I thought I had a suicidal Puffer on my hands.   <Many a puffer has been known to go carpet-surfing.> However, refusing to give up I tried putting several small fish (Damsels) on his side of the partition.   <Partition?  How large is this tank?  Your S&S puffer will grow quite large, requiring at least a 180g tank.   See: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug.php/v/PufferPedia/Marine/A_Hispidus/ > The reason for this?  The first several weeks I had him, he was enjoying the general population and full run of the tank (pre-eating and killing my LTA) <Most puffers are NOT reef safe.> and he never engaged in this odd "diving" behavior.  I thought, "Is it possible that he is lonely?"  To make a long story a tad less long; I put the two fish on Blinky's side of the tank and it seemed to have a calming effect on him almost immediately.  At that time I also realized that the Puffer was looking a bit "raggedy" from repeatedly scraping his delicate underbelly on the jagged rock and gravel.  There were no actual lesions or anything resembling an open wound, though.  If I had to describe it I would liken it to a close shave (human) resulting in some flaky skin.  Blinky literally had flaky pieces hanging from his chin (mostly) and some from his belly.   <More proof of parasites IMO.  Their skin is not delicate, actually the opposite.  More like prickly leather.> I was recommended by my LFS to put a cleaner shrimp in with him to attempt a cleaning (before the poor invert was gobbled up as thanks; not a consideration).  But then several days ago I noticed the small Humbug damsel was gently taking small, swift nibbles at Blinky's underside.  In fact, every piece of flaky skin was gone and the Puffer was looking clean as a whistle.  He was even hovering, completely motionless, seemingly enjoying the service AND the attention.  This service/relationship continues almost a week later.  Although occasionally one little nip may seem a bit too hard for the Puffer and he will wince a bit and shake his head back and forth like a Ferret.  I don't think it is an aggressive act, nor do I believe that either fish believes that it is aggressive (the Puffer has never tucked is tail into his body as he does when upset or intimidated during any of this).  But I have read about Puffers having skin and not scales and that their skin is sensitive.  FINALLY - MY QUESTIONS.....Is the current Puffer/Damsel relationship worth the risks?  Is it a true symbiosis or freak of nature?  I have heard of cleaner shrimp, but don't have any knowledge of cleaner Damsel fish.  Is it unusual for a Damsel to engage in this type of behavior?  So, what are your thoughts on this odd relationship?  Should I separate the two or give it some time? <Very common for a smaller fish to become the cleaner of a larger fish.  One of my favorite places to hang out in the ocean on a dive, is the cleaner station.  Sounds like the puffer & the damselfish know their place & the puffer will let it stay that way... for now... you can never trust a puffer!  Check out www.thepufferforum.com, for more info on your puffer.  ~PP> Thanks for enduring my long tale! P.S.  Bob - enjoying your book immensely! <<Ah, good. RMF>>
Re: Treating Puffer Parasites  2/23/07 Hi Crew, <Lisa> Quick question....Pufferpunk just suggested that my Stars and Stripes Puffer may have parasites.  What's the best way to treat him and with what specific medication?  Can I remove him from his current tank and treat him in a ten gallon hospital tank or should the entire population be treated?  Also, will the recommended meds be tough on the inverts?  Thanks for your help! <I think the cleaner fish may have taken care of that.   Just in case: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13 Lisa

Re: S & S Puffer Parasite    2/25/07 What if the parasites are internal?...... <From your description Lisa, I was thinking external.  You didn't describe any symptoms of IPs.> I went to the puffer forum and everything there seems to be for external pests.  Also, a lot of treatments apply to fresh water and pond.  What have you personally used on your marine puffers and how did they respond to treatment?  Please be specific, if you wouldn't mind.   <I haven't ever treated for EPs on SW puffers.  I suggest posting in the Hospital forum at TPF.> I am concerned that it might be internal because he is still diving and twitching.   <Definitely signs of EPs, not IPs.> A particular brand of medication would be appreciated. <Generally, hyposalinity is best.  Look very closely for white spots on your puffer.  There is a marine puffer expert, Kelly Jedlicki (Puffer Queen), that is a mentor at TPF.  She can help you with this.  ~PP> Thanks, Lisa P.S.  I have had pond fish who seemed fine for a year, eating and acting  healthy, then dying suddenly.  I guess because I couldn't see the damage  that was happening on the inside.  I would hate to see that happen to my Puffer.  Again, thanks!

Re: Ich or not? SW Tetraodont dis.   2/27/07 Hi Crew, Hope you are not getting completely tired of me writing in about my "diving" Stars and Stripes Puffer named Blinky, apparently afflicted with some type of external parasite. <Apparently may be the operative term here> He does have a cleaner fish <A Labroides may be more detrimental than useful here> and they both seem to be enjoying each other.... However, the Puffer has a pimple (?) that looks like a grain of salt (even smaller) under the thin membrane of his pectoral fin..... <Only one? I wouldn't be concerned> he has had this since I got him over a month ago; it has not moved or changed in size.  This spot is NOT white nor does it look like any of the "Ich" pictures in Bob Fenner's book. <I assure you... from your description... it is not> It is the same greenish color of his fin, like a tiny bubble or cyst.  I also noticed two small (same size) cystic spots on his top (dorsal) fin near his tail.  Unfortunately, I don't know if these two cysts were there from the start like the one on the fin.  There are absolutely no white spots, bubbles or anything that looks like illness on his entire body (except for a bit of hanging skin from his chin where he has rubbed himself).  I have searched and read on your site and others on the net and I am still in the dark.  Is this Ich or something more benign?..... <Likely nothing to treat... could be encysted worms of a few sorts... Microsporideans... You won't be able to tell w/o microscopic examination> Should I put him in my ten gallon hospital tank and try the hyposalinity treatment for 4 weeks? <I would NOT> I worry about stressing him out unnecessarily, but will do whatever you advise.  Should I also treat with copper, MelaFix or Pimafix?   <None of the above> I want to do what's best. Thanks for your help. Lisa <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fishindex3.htm scroll down to the puffers area... Re disease of puffers in general, Tetraodonts in particular. Bob Fenner>

Re: Ich or not? Ongoing Tetraodont hlth.  2/28/07 Hi Bob, Okay....Now there seem to be more salt-grain-like spots cropping up, several on his tail (small) and a cluster of tiny ones on his anal fin.......BIG QUESTION....if the one on his pectoral fin that has been there (and the same size) for the past month, has not moved or changed in size does that conclude, without a doubt, that it is NOT Ich? <Nope> I have read about the life cycle of the little critters and should it have not dropped off and into the substrate and becomes an encapsulated cyst called a tomonts by now if it were Ich?. <Yep> I have also read that they come and go (the spots, that is).  So since the very first one I saw four weeks ago is still there PLUS new smaller ones, what the heck do you think it is? <Perhaps... just reaction/mucus... to?> I want to catch it before it gets out of control, but without knowing what "it" is I remain stymied (do ya blame me?)  ....If this is, by chance, "Ich" I don't want the situation to end in me having to do the fallow tank routine...... But I did your recommended reading and I will "paste" the following instruction from Anthony on your site..........<you are doing fine... FW dips daily of 5-10 minutes each for 5-7 times in next week may effect cure without any meds. A bare-bottomed QT tank would be best though>......but like I said, the spots that show up are NOT going away.  They are also not a bright white as I mentioned before.  I also read that saltwater Ich likes higher degrees of salinity, which by coincidence I have been struggling with since adding a metal halide light and have had increased evaporation.  So was it a coincidence that these extra tiny new salt-grain type spots show up during this period of higher salinity? <More likely stress-related in general, due to the bright illumination> I am thinking about Anthony's advice for the QT and wondering why you say "no" so definitively.  Is a ten gallon tank too small for a 3 1/2 inch Puffer. <Is risky... due to metabolic and psychological factors>   But should I risk the Ich? <If your system had/has Cryptocaryon, you would know about by now> I have to go away for a few days and don't know how to leave him; where he is or in the QT.  HELP!  I am in such a quandary.  I have read and read and have found nothing that seems remotely explainable (regarding symptoms described) other than the dreaded "Ich". Thanks. SORRY THIS IS SO LONG! Lisa <There are a number of "things" in the way of parasites that appear as "spots", "dots" in such fishes... as well as "pimples" from stress, mechanical injury, interaction with tankmates... W/o microscopic examination there is only speculation... I would not act overtly given the information presented. Bolstering metabolism via supplemented foods is about all I would do presently. Bob Fenner>

*Puffer w/ cloudy eye - 02/09/2007 Hello, <Hi.> I have 22" Stars and Stripes puffer with cloudy eyes.   He is in a 350 gallon fish only tank.  With him is a 7 inch Sailfin tang, 3 inch coral beauty, 5 inch bowtie damsel and 3 yellow fin damsel.  The pH is 8.3,  ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0 and the nitrate is 30 ppm.  For approx 2 years I had trouble keeping the nitrate level under 120ppm.  I added a refugium 4 months ago and now the nitrate level are under control.  There is 2 sources of water movement (1st) Quiet One 6000 return pump from the sump (2nd) Dolphin amp master 3000 on close loop system which is currently not working for the past 3 weeks, due to blown seal.  I got the puffer 3.5 years ago when he was on 6 inches long.  His diet started off with San Francisco Bay frozen krill and for the past couple of years he has been eating frozen cocktail shrimp.  It seems that he has lost his eye sight in the cloudier of the two eyes.  What can I due to help the cloudiness in his eyes? <Mmm..."cloudy" and "eye" usually point to something environmental.  My guess is that he is suffering from the long-term stress of high nutrient levels. How often do you change the water? What do you feed? This is also a large animal, what is the footprint of the tank? Read WWM re: environmental disease. Adam J.>
Re: Puffer with cloudy eye   2/11/07
Thanks for your input, the answers the questions that you posed are as follows: the water is change every 3-4 weeks <Why don't you try at least 10% every two weeks for a while.> we are feeding him frozen cocktail shrimp <Mmm...depending on the brand these are at times pre-cooked, I would prefer raw (freezing is okay but uncooked) market fish/clams...and leaving the shell on the bivalves would be a good idea as well.> and the foot print is 48" x 72" <So size is not a problem.> one other that I have notice is that he swim close to the edge of the tank and his eye are rubbing along the tank.  Could that also be contributing to the cloudy ness of his eyes? <No likely just a side effect of diminished sight.> thank for your input. <Of course, AJ.>

Arothron with Cloudy Eyes  1/23/07 Hey Crew, <Hi Sam, Pufferpunk here> How's it going? <Things are great here, in sunny, snowy Chicago!> Things in my aquarium have been going pretty well for the past 6 months or so. However, I now have an issue in which I need your help. I have an 120 gallon tank with the Yellow Arothron, <Arothron> a Picasso trigger, a Miniatus grouper and a Snowflake eel. They've all been healthy for a while. The other day, I woke up and noticed that one of the puffer's eyes looked like a white, cloudy substance was completely covering his eye. It's thick and looks almost like wax on his eye. Perfectly around his left eye. I have my tank maintained by a aquarium service. I checked my pH which I never do because I presumed it's monitored every week by the maintenance people. The pH was extremely low. I immediately added pH buffer and got it back to normal level again. <Should have done a water change 1st.  Many pH problems are caused by a build-up of wastes in the tank, causing it to become more acidic.> I was quite upset, because I've had this fish for a while.  It was expensive and obviously it may be that my the maintenance personal don't know what they are doing. <That could be.  What is their water change schedule?> Anyhow, I have a 60 WATT UV light in operation. It's a fish only. I was curious to know whether you think the low pH perhaps enabled my puffer to get cloudy eye and if regulation pH will help it get better, since he hasn't had a problem in the 6 months I've owned him. Will I have to medicate before it gets too late? <Cloudy eye is generally a sign of poor water conditions.  I suggest a 25% water change on the tank.  Test for ammonia, nitrite, & nitrates, before you do this.  There should be no trace of ammonia or nitrite (extremely toxic) & nitrates should be kept below 20--below 10 would be best.  Continue with daily water changes, until water parameters are good.  The eye may clear up on it's own then.  Also, please use a capital "I" when using as a pronoun.  I have fixed these before this letter goes to our FAQs.  ~PP> Thanks, Sam

Bloated Puffer  1/8/07 <Hi Emmett, Pufferpunk here> I have a Mappa puffer and he is bloated and not due to overeating.  His belly was kinda little and it has progressed to where now it's visible on both sides when he's laying down. My pet store initially said just give him some time since he's eating ok but today he is laying on the very bottom of the tank and expressed no interest in eating.  He was not breathing fast but breaths were harder than usual and visible.  I use freeze dried krill to feed him.  Any suggestions for meds or treatments would be appreciated.   <It would be helpful when you post a Q about an ailing fish, to include water parameters--ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH.  Also, tank size, fish size, water change schedule, how long you've had the fish.  Has it pooped lately?  You could try treating for constipation with 1 tbsp Epsom salt/5g.  Puffers need a varied diet, other than just krill. See: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/library.php?p=53   Look into the Hospital Forum at that website for info on treating for internal parasites.  ~PP> Thanks in advance, ES

Treating Dogface Puffers with "Ich"  1/4/07 Hi, <Hi, Pufferpunk here> I have 2 dogface puffers and they recently got Ich. I added a Koran angel and I think that it has stressed them out. <Did you QT the angel before adding to the puffer tank?  That's where the "Ich" came from.> I was wondering if a 20 gallon quarantine tank would be big enough for them?  I have an extra heater and Emperor 400 filter that I was planning on using. Thanks for all your help. <It depends on how large your fish are.   Please read: http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4576 Also, please be sure you use proper capitalization & punctuation.  We have to correct this, before posting on our FAQs.  Thanks, PP>

Sick Stars and Stripes Puffer... env., faux trtmt.s  12/5/06 Hi- I have a 55 gallon tank with a stars and stripes puffer he is around 4 inches long and will eventually be moved to a larger tank.) <Needs to go... now> Since earlier this year (when I purchased him from my LFS), he has been thriving. He has had a tremendous appetite and was always a pleasure to both watch and feed. However, around a month ago, he began to constantly sit on his nose. <... happens> While this did not over worry me, his appetite began to decline. <Also not unusual for Tetraodontids, other puffers> I also noticed that he was starting to have severe buoyancy problems. <A very bad sign> He could also not swim without bobbing up and down. This problem continued and has steadily worsened. I  also noticed that his fins( besides his large tail fin) have drastically decreased in size. From then to now, I, at different times, have treated this with Melanoma <...> and Rally (also used for treating parasites). <... worthless phony remedies> While there has been fin growth, other problems have developed. He now spends all of his tome floating on his back at the top of the tank. His eyes are active and he makes efforts to flip over- however, he has not been able to. Just in the past few days, I have noticed that he is bleeding from both the mouth and his fins. <.... environmental> During the time I have had him, regular water changes have been done ( and in accordance with the medicine.) The water has also recently been tested and is at near perfect salinity level (well in the safe zone.) The ammonia and nitrate are also at safe levels. Thanks for any help in trying to save my puffer. I love him dearly and hate to see him in the condition that he is in. Thanks for the help, Scott <The very best action here is to move this fish to new, larger quarters... the problems you list are likely environmental (and possibly nutritional) in origin... psychological and physiological "crowding" has led to your puffers near demise. Bob Fenner>

Puffer death/strange symptoms   11/19/06 I am hoping that you might have some advice or information about our puffer. About two weeks ago, I introduced a dog faced puffer (purchased from a very reputable local store) into our tank (well-established tank, 2 years old). It was a wonderful specimen, and we fell in love with him immediately. He thrived in the environment, got along with tank mates, and ate like crazy (krill, bloodworms, mussels, etc).  About ten days after getting him, he began to act lethargic (although still eating), and very quickly (less than a day's time) developed two very large, darkly discolored areas (one on his left side, about 1.5x1 inches; another on his right side/ventral area, about 1x1 inches). They seemed to bother him quite a bit, as he often tried to slam himself (not rub, but slam) against the live rock in the tank. The spots quickly grew over a one day period, became edematous and wrinkled in appearance, he began to act as if he felt miserable, and he perished very soon thereafter (the next day). We were not able to consult an 'expert' until afterwards, but were then told that puffers can often become constipated due to stress from being transported, and if the problem is not alleviated, they will develop an internal fungus (which presents itself as these very large, darkened areas) that is terminal. <Mmmmmm? Is the animal still available for necropsy? Did you freeze the body? Am dubious (to a great extent) re this speculation/etiology> We were also told that a primary way to treat this, should we notice no defecation, is to briefly place it in a container with some aquarium water and a bit of baking soda, which would immediately cause them to defecate. <... No. More likely to kill the specimen... Perhaps a soak/bath with a good bit of Epsom/Magnesium Sulfate dissolved in it>> My question is if this was our puffer's problem (there is absolutely NOTHING on the internet about this), and if the supposed treatment is legitimate. <The former I don't the latter I do doubt> Also, if not, what the heck went wrong with the poor guy? <W/o examination, no way to really tell... Does sound/read like some sort of internal triggered complaint... perhaps parasitic (worm, protozoan...?), maybe tumorous...> I never want this to happen to another one of our puffers again-- it was adorable, friendly, and it was awful to witness his pain without being able to do anything for  it. Many, many thanks for any advice you can provide. I look forward to hearing from you!! Best regards, Susan <Thank you for writing, sharing... I strongly suggest having this fish dissected if you still have its body on hand... to discern the make-up of these growths. Bob Fenner>

Dog-faced puffer fish conundrum 11/13/2006 Greetings, <<Hello.>> My brother does not have internet access, so I am sending this question by his request.  We have checked your site for puffer fish information, and found much of it very helpful in diagnosing fin rot and reoccurring Ich.    His dog-faced puffer has been treated for Ich (using prevent-Ich per advice from PetCo), <<Did your brother read anything on the site?>> But the Ich came back.  The fish has been in the tank for a week now, and got sick on the third day.  The fins have all the classic markers of fin rot, e.g.. frayed edges, and what appears to be mucus or 'hairs' stringing out from the fins.  There are small gray blotches (about the same size of the Ich spots) around the head and upper torso area. There is a large patch of white discoloration on one of the pectoral fin.  The fish is lethargic and lies on its side at the bottom of the tank, does not eat, and sleeps on the power head (near the top of the water line where a power cord emerges from the water).  My brother is going to begin "hospitalization" with Quick Cure by Aquarium Products and FW baths.  The fish is in a 55 gallon tank by itself.  The tank's set up is crushed coral, live marine sand, and a large (dictionary-sized) rock.  Last week there was an issue with pH.  It had gone above 8.6, but the issue was remedied.  What the heck is going on with this tank/fish? <<How did he cycle the tank? I think this is environmental more than anything.  He needs to get on mega water changes, and get Bio-Spira if available.  What are the readings for ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte?  The 55 gallon tank is not large enough to house this puffer long-term. Please get back to me! Thanks for your help, Lee <<Glad to help, Lisa.>>

Puffer Problem 10/18/06 Never have had a salt water aquarium before, We dove in head first all because I fell in love with "Louie", a dogface puffer I just had to have. <Not the easiest fish to start with.> After endless BAD advice, we have brought him home and put him in our tank before it has cycled. <Not good.> We have high ammonia/nitrate levels and have reduced feedings along with daily water changes, we have also been putting in the good bacteria. <Most of these products are junk.> Also we bought a skimmer. <Going to need a good one with a messy fish like a puffer.> I wanted to know if we should put him in a different tank until the cycling process has completed, we haven't got a tank that is already established so we are at a loss. <Move him to a QT tank until the main has cycled.  Daily water changes should take care of ammonia/nitrite until the main tank is ready.> He is doing fine as far as we can tell, eats well and shows no signs of stress but not sure if this will continue until we can get this under control. <Not a good environment for him currently.> Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Kim <Chris>

Puffer Problem - 10/22/2006 Hello, Mr. Fenner and/or WWM crew: <Hi Mikel, MacL here with you today. Hope its good for you. Sorry for the slowness of the answer, for some reason this just showed up.> Love your site; it is an inspiration to all of us who love this hobby. <Very kind of you to say.> I've been at this wonderful obsession of Marine Aquaria Keeping for nearly 2 decades, but was away from it for the last ten years.  I'm amazed at how far the hobby has come while I was on hiatus.  However most of my 17 year experience before was with natural seawater and natural substrates living in the Florida Keys collecting my own specimens.   So in many ways I am a newbie once again trying to learn all about this 'New School' in Keepin Marine aquaria.   <You'll be fine, basics still apply. Do it slow, research as much as you can, watch your tank.> My situation deals here with a new Dog faced Puffer I've recently acquired.  I have the 3' puffer in a 50 gallon holding tank at the moment.  My QT or holding tank, as we call it, has a HOT Magnum power filter, a Remora C HOB skimmer, power head with 20 pounds of live sand and twenty pounds of live rock under 130 watts of PC lighting. I run the power filter with carbon switching off every four or five days with the micron cylinder.  I clean the skimmer cup and filter media daily.  Parameters are as follows: SG: 1.022 Temp: 79 PH: 8.2 Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates <10 ppm KH 11dkh I always hold all new livestock 6 weeks before introducing any item to either my reef tank or my semi aggressive FOWLR tank.  We also have another 20 gallon bare bottom QT tank (Empty) I reserve this for medication and/or hypo salinity treatments.  But for the moment Fideux, our new waterdog is in the 50 gallon with the following tankmates: One 4' Aussie Harlequin Tusk One 3' Bursa Trigger One 3' Dragon Wrasse (Hit the sand like a drill haven't seen him in a week) One 4' Ember Blenny (Boss of the Tank) So our 3' Water Pup is serving time with these four very swimmy, but so far mild mannered cellmates.  Everyone seems to be getting along peacefully in the small tank. The Tusk's sentence is nearly up, as well as the other wrasse.  One more week and they will be paroled into our FOWLR, followed a week later by the blenny, the trigger and last but not least, Fideux, the Wonder Dog.   <I would be a bit concerned here. I love that you have quarantine tanks and you are doing this so thoroughly but every time you add a new fish your quarantine should start over. The idea in my mind of a quarantine is to keep the fish isolated so that anything he has come in with can manifest himself. When you add new fish into the quarantine station you expose him to potentially catching something that one of the other fish came with.  I know lots of people quarantine with multiple fishes but it is an area for concern. Also, I really recommend spreading out the introduction of the fish to longer than a week at a time simply because the fish needs time to adapt to their new environment.> However, we may hold the trigger a week and introduce him as the Last Fish.  So far he has been real chummy with the puffer, but this may change.  These will be the last five fish to go into our two display tanks. Everything has been going well with the quarantine of these final fish.  All five were eating like pigs, Fideux eating from my hand already:  I'm feeding all of them fresh chopped squid, shrimp, krill and baby clams in the shell, all foods soaked heavily in fresh crushed garlic and Selcon. <I love puffers, in my mind they are an amazing fish. I currently have a mappa puffer that has grown from less than an inch and a stars and stripes puffer.  What you are feeding them sounds great, and they will thrive on it. I want to caution you with letting them eat out of your hand, as they grow they get more and more enthusiastic about food and can get you instead of the fish.> I hang the strips of meaty foods on lettuce clips tied to a string for easy withdrawal to keep trites and trates under control. (No cleaning crew allowed in this tank) I feed the Krill to the puffer by hand.  I never put free floating food into this crewless tank.   <I use mixed bits and pieces of lobster and crab and other meaty seafoods as well.> Last night, our wonderful little puffer, somehow managed to get himself stuck between the power head and the filter intake.  He had not puffed up before this, not even during acclimation.  But when I found him stuck, he was severely puffed.  I immediately unplugged the power and freed him from his predicament.  Although he was stuck, for God knows how long up high in the tank, fortunately he was wedged in there head down, so I don't think he inflated with air.  However, there was an airstone in that corner of the tank showering him in a shroud of bubbles, so he may have ingested a bit of air from that.  At first he appeared to have a bit of trouble completely deflating, but finally after nearly 24 hours seems to be completely deflated.  But he is cowering in a little LR cave in one corner of the tank and won't come out, and won't eat, not even when I lower krill on a feeding stick right in front of his nose.  He just sits there sulking looking out.  His eyes are clear, and follow me around the tank.  He looks at the food, sniffs it, but will not take it. <Puffers sulk. Do you see signs of damage on him? Bruising where he was stuck or something similar? My puffer blocks the overflow in my tank when he doesn't get fed enough or when he's being rotten and makes bubbles come into the tank. At first we were tremendously concerned that he kept doing that but now we just move him out from in front of it. He responds to the attention and splashes us and moves on and lets the water flow again.  Also, watch out. . . puffers spit water at you.> Here is my concern.  I can't see him well enough for a good examination, but from what I can see, using a magnifying glass, his skin looks kind of stretched out of shape, like it is kind of baggy.  It looks rough just under his muzzle and he has broken out in some sort of white specs.  It doesn't look like Ich to me, because the specs are rather large, but it may be Ich.  We'll hope for the best, but consider the worse.  The spots look kind of raised under the big M. Glass.  Perhaps the stress of the ordeal has given him Ich, although none of the other fish show any signs of it.  But all are acting differently, just a little more lethargic, hiding more, whereas they were always swimming in the water column before.  Well, the Tusk has not slowed down, but the Blenny is staying still more and the trigger stays in the cave with the puffer now, only coming out for food.  Everyone is eating well except the puffer. <My guess is that his skin is pulled a bit loose. Nothing to worry about unless he does come down with some type of bacterial infection or indeed it is Ich. But in my experience, Ich on a puffer is difficult to see unless you see spots on the fin.> Of course, my first fear was a toxic event from the stressed, inflated puffer.  Right after the incident I did an immediate 25% water change.  Then another 25% about 12 hours later, trying to maintain the same temp and PH, however, SG has come up a little to just under 1.023  I also replaced the micron filter with fresh carbon and hung a basket of Poly filter under the outlet of the skimmer.  I am getting a lot of skimmate and the water smelled a little fishy right after the event, but smells fresh now.  If there was a tetradotoxins release, I think the tank is clear of it now, although I may keep doing water changes daily until normal behavior return to the other fish. What I'm wondering is, if this event caused enough stress to the puffer to break out in Ich, should I hold the Tusk and trigger longer now rather than putting them into the display and exposing my FOWLR to the parasite, if in fact that is what it is?  Also, if I have to treat the puffer for Ich, I'll have to cycle the BB tank and trying to get the puffer out of his cave which will probably stress him even more.  Or should I leave everyone where they are and just observe.  Please forgive the long winded post.  I'm a writer, and we do tend to get a little wordy. <I'm so sorry for the delay.  I would love to know his condition. If you have to treat the puffer for Ich be extremely cautious because puffers have problems with some of the medications used to treat Ich.  I think adding the carbon was a good idea.  I do have a suggestion for you as well. A lot of people who use quarantine tanks keep sponge filters in their other tanks to constantly be cycled so if they have to do a quick set up they have a tank that is quickly set up.  The skin should go back to normal and he should start eating within a couple of days, if not you do have a problem because they have such a high metabolism, especially in my experience when they are small and they need lots of food. Or they start to fade away.  Please let me know how he is doing. MacL> Thanks,  Mikel Stevenson

Sick dog face puffer - please help!  - 09/14/06 Dear crew, <Lana> Our female dogface puffer has not been eating for almost 3 weeks, is very inactive and seems to be getting worse every day. There are no visible parasites, Ich or anything unusual on the skin, eyes or gills. She is passing something that looks like white clusters.   <Perhaps indicative of internal parasitic situation> This is not the first time the puffer stopped eating - in the past, once a year or so, she had periods lasting between a few days to 1 week of not eating. <Not uncommon as am sure you're aware> Usually a little Epsom salt would solve the problem. Last year during a period like that she got very big - we thought she was constipated; after we added some Epsom salt she started passing the white clusters and after that she laid eggs. It looked like bright yellow ribbons were coming out of her. It happened twice in the same day, with maybe one-hour interval. After this she started eating again and went back to normal. <Perhaps time to try a vermifuge... see WWM re> This time she is not eating for 3 weeks - we don't know how long she can last without food. Also, if she is trying to lay eggs again and has a problem with that, what can we do to help her? We would very much appreciate any advise you can give us. Here is a little background info: The puffer is about 5.5 years old; we've had her since she was a baby. Water Parameters: PH 8.3 sal 1.023 temp approx 80 degrees ammonia 0 nitrates/nitrite - untraceable System: 55 gallon tank <Too small> live rock/crashed coral Eheim professional 2 Fluval FX 5 Hang on refugium with mud and algae <Good> Tankmates: 3 damsels 1 cowfish <This fish could easily be having an ill-effect on the Tetraodontid> Nothing has been changes/added in years Feeding - frozen, 2-3 cubes a day of the following: Formula One Squid Special Formula VHP Spirulina Thank you very much for your help, Best regards, Art and Lana <I'd try Praziquantel... otherwise patience, a larger system. Bob Fenner>

Sick Dog Face Puffer   8/29/06 Hi, my name is Beth, my husband and I have a dog face puffer, and  I think he's really sick; but I don't know what the problem is. <Hi Beth, you have Justin with you tonight, one of the resident puffer people.> None of the two local fish stores that we go to can tell us what's wrong they just suggest to do water changes.  We have.  We have had  Pudge for about eight months with nothing else but a crab. Please Help Me!!!  I am really sorry if you have already answered a question like this, but I've done tons of research on your website and can't find any answers.  About ten days ago Pudge stopped eating and swimming on the third day I noticed he was breathing very heavy his left gill was opening very wide and when he did swim not aggressively at all he would bmp into the live rock and the glass as if he didn't even see it. <Signs of poor water quality generally> We did a water change and added bio-Spira that night at about 10:00 he was laying on his side and getting all these brown spots on him I thought he was dying.  With no suggestion from the fish store as a last resort  I told my husband to put the medication Rally in his tank, within 20 min. the spots were gone , the next day his breathing improved, the following day he was swimming around again still with no signs of hunger. <Brown spots?  can you get a photo?  do you mean that the puffer was turning blotchy, or that he was actually covered in small black/brown dots?>  The day before yesterday I noticed what seems to be mucus coming out of his mouth and his one left gill. Still not eating.  Yesterday I tried force feeding him but he wouldn't take it.  Today he just seems to be in the same position he was ten days ago.  This morning I put some more medication in but it doesn't seem to be working he is breathing heavy again with no energy at all. He is very dark brown but when I go over to the tank it seems that he is trying to turn that grayish white color he normally is but cant and he gets these white spots all over him almost like a leopard.  I don't know what to do I feel helpless. I hope you can help me.     Thank you so much for your time.           Beth <Beth, without knowing key things about your setup such as tank size, size of the puffer, water parameters (Take your water to be tested or if you have a test kit, use it  and reply back), and what type of blotches you are seeing, it is hard to tell you anything you can do.  your LFS is right that water changes (50%) will be very helpful, but I'm concerned with the adding medicine and spots disappearing, that sounds like black spot disease or black Ich, which is a parasite.  If it is black Ich, (small black spots all over the body/gills) fresh water dipping and gravel vacuuming your entire tank will help remove most of them, however please read on WWM about black spot disease to get a better feel for if that is what is actually happening.  At this point do the water changes, and try adding garlic juice to the puffers food to entice it to eat.  Answer the questions above and reply back and we can go from there.> <Justin>
Re: Sick Dog Face Puffer. Justin was right, bunk env.   8/29/06
The puffer is about 5-6 inches..   he is in a 30 gallon tank <Too small... unstable> and I have a 70 gallon aqua clear filter running.   I also have a powerhead.  the nitrates are really high <Also...> when the water was tested.   I did a water change but the nitrates are still very high.  He is breathing very heavy and has white blotches all over him not salt looking though. <"Fix the environment, cure the fish". Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/trupufsysfaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Sick Dog Face Puffer
  8/30/06 Hi Justin, <Beth> I believe my husband just e-mailed you back regarding tank size etc.  I'm not to knowledgeable about fish my husband is more the fish type than I am, but I do love my little Pudge.  I have tried soaking his food in garlic and still nothing.  The spots I'm seeing literally look like he's trying to change to that grayish white color, but instead of fully changing color he gets these white spots.  How  else can I make him eat I'm really concerned that he has gone this long w/o food.  I know that's not the key problem but I feel if I can get food in him it will build his strength and immune system. I feel like I need to do something immediately but  I don't know what.  I really hope you can help me Justin.  Thank you so much!! <I have not seen any email from him yet, until I do there isn't much more I can tell you. Please see if he can resend it or if another crew member tackled his email> <Justin>

Dog Face Puffer... beh., fdg., dis.   8/12/06 Hello - I have a 7 year old Dog Face Puffer (Rover).  About a week ago he became bloated and would not eat.  This has happened one other time (about two months ago) and he seemed to work himself through it.  I'm guessing he was constipated.  This time, after a few days of his being bloated, I called the vet to come and check him out.  He was scheduled to come out the next afternoon.  I had to call and ask him to come earlier because he had built up so much air that it was blocking a small piece of one of his eyes. He also is generally lethargic. <Periodic, common behavior in Tetraodonts>   He rests against different items in the aquarium as well as on the bottom.  If I open the lid, he will start swimming around. The vet came out, trimmed his teeth (they were very long and Rover had no interest in snails or live rock) and squeezed his midsection to help encourage him to go to the bathroom. <Good techniques>   I need to mention that I have noticed in the past weeks that when he does go to the bathroom, it is whole pieces of krill.  While Rover is not as puffy now, he is still puffy and still has no desire to eat. <Give this fish time>   I have tested the water and the readings are as follows:  PH - 8.6; NO2 < 0.3 mg/l; and NH3/NH4 - 0 mg. None of the other fish (Tang, Clown Fish, Trigger and Damsels) seem to be having any issues.  Because my vet is not an expert, he has a call into a doctor in one of the Carolina's.  That doctor is out of town and will not be back until the 08/15.  His associate has not returned his call and my vet will be out of town for two weeks starting Monday.  I am at a loss and I hate seeing him miserable.  I would appreciate any input and/or suggestions. Kristine <Best to try to be patient here. Puffers are tough... and yours will likely be fine in time. Bob Fenner>

Adult dog faced puffer - 8/10/2006 I have had a dog faced puffer for about 5 years.  He's always been healthy and very active.  Kept in a 120 gallon tank with no other fish.  Purification system was fed RO Water and had an ETSS protein skimmer, a Eheim canister filter.  Tank has about 50-70 pounds of live rock. In mid-may we had a flood which caused us to move the tank.  We moved the puffer, much of his rock, the filters onto a 72 gallon tank for about two weeks while we rebuilt the area around the 120. Once done, we put him in a new 120 with a new skimmer.  His old filters and added a Fluval 404 (mainly for easier carbon changes) that I had laying around. He seemed fine for a month.  At this point we did some dental work on his too-large beak (few drops of clove oil, quick Dremel tool work).  It went remarkably well and he demonstrated a larger appetite after this and showed no signs of trauma. <Oft times takes a while to show... weeks> Fast forward two uneventful weeks... Over the last two or three days he suddenly became a bit lethargic and the last two days has had a bit of a film over his eyes and body.  He now passively rests on the bottom of the tank.  My LFS is a very good fish/reef only store, but they are small and closed for a week long trip, <Wow! Impressive!> leaving me with no local support.  I'm extremely concerned and not sure what to do.  I've never had a fish with Ich or any other infection before, though I've kept fish or reefs for about 15 years.  Nitrates showed high, with Ammonia, Nitrite, salinity all being within norms. <Mmm... very likely nothing to be overly concerned about here> Cash isn't really an issue, but I'm not sure what my options are.  At the moment we're purchasing some store-made water from another LFS on the shot that the elevated nitrates may be coming from our new RO system which has no de-ionizer (the old one did).  About to do a 15% water change to see if it has any effect at all. Any help would be tremendously appreciated. -Jason <I would do "nothing"... Almost assuredly this puffer will recover, return to its cheery former self. Please read here in the mean while: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/puffcareinfo.htm and the many puffer, Tetraodont linked files above. It is my hope that by perusing the concerns, efforts of others you will be more encouraged, understanding of the situation. Bob Fenner>

Sick Stars and Stripes Puffer, in a mis-stocked, mis-treated, poorly filtered system   7/26/06 I have a small, approx 3" Stars & Stripes along with a dogface and a Niger Trigger in a 40 gallon. <Danger Will Robbins! Too much incompatible life in too tiny a world...>   Last night I noticed my stars & stripes was lying on the bottom of the tank panting or breathing heavy, and his color had darkened.  This morning nothing had changed except for now it looks as though he broke out with Ich, again. <Again?> Somehow he appears to have gotten stressed out.  Is there anything I can do? <Uh... less stress... move to appropriate setting... larger, no trigger...> Also, in regards to Ich, it seems as though it keeps coming back or never fully goes away.   <Common...> I've been treating the entire tank with Quick Cure per the instructions on the package.  Do I need to isolate the fish?   <Maybe> I also have 2 long spined urchins in the tank.  I've been told the Quick Cure will kill them, but they seem to be Okay. <Mmm... not really treated sufficiently...>   Am I killing them slowly by using Quick Cure? <Very likely so> One last thing.  I've heard mixed reviews about my filtration so I'd like to get your opinion.  I was advised by a local tropical fish store and this is what I have: Fluval 304 canister filter and an under gravel filter powered by 2 powerheads.  Do I have adequate filtration?? <Mmm, not likely. Please see WWM re Crypt treatments, these three, four species Systems needs, Compatibility... formulate a plan for a much larger, better set-up/filtration, and a plan (maybe with the spare forty) for treating the Crypt appropriately... the trigger really can't be kept with these Tetraodont puffers unless the tank is very large... hundreds of gallons. Bob Fenner> Mike Irion

Dogface Puffer, Environment - 05/05/2006 Hello, my name is Jerri and I'm very worried about my dog face puffer. <<Hi Jerry.>> I had my water tested this afternoon and made sure that it was all in excellent condition before buying him today. <<Numbers are helpful.  DO remember that a puffer adds a heavy bio-load capable of crashing many tanks.>> He was obviously very stressed for a while, but I did manage to get him out for a meal and he did fine for about an hour, but he is now hiding behind a rock and his breathing is causing me to be very worried. It is very rapid. <<You should check your water quality at this point.>> My LFS has had him for awhile and I've been watching him there for a month, and he had no problems there; he was a very curious guy that never shied away, but in my tank he's completely the opposite, he is now in a much bigger tank and he is in with other fish, but he is by far the biggest in the tank and I've seen absolutely no sign of aggression from the other fish. <<You should have had this guy in QT for a few weeks before introduction into your tank.  He is likely stressed from the move, and my guess is your water quality is now an issue.>> I'm deeply concerned that he is going to stress his self to death, please help! <<Your best bet is to get him into a quiet QT tank for a few weeks.  You don't mention tank size.  This puffer (Arothron nigropunctatus) grows to 10+ inches, and needs a large tank of 125+ gallons.  Visit www.thepufferforum.com  for more information/help with your new pet.>> Thank You Jerri Jackson <<Glad to help. Lisa.>>
Dogface Puffer, Environment - II- 05/05/2006
Thank you so much for the help, and yes this guy's bio-load did crash my tank! <<You're welcome, though I hate when I'm right about bad things :(.>> I lost several small fish, the tank size is a 110 gallon tank, I have moved the puffer to a qt tank, where he has puffed up and is upside down, and I am fixing to take him back to the LFS for more experienced care. <<Ugh, no good on the upside down bit.  Does he have air inside of him? If you have a good LFS, returning him is best.>> I have to admit my LFS has been great and have walked me through every transition on this tank but I have to admit that I'm a little disappointed that I was not given a warning on this guys bio-load I had no idea that one fish could crash an entire tank in a matter of hours. <<Never underestimate the power of a puffer!>> I now have a QT tank set up and will learn from this error. <<So glad to hear that.>> Again thank you so much for your help. <<Anytime my friend.  Best of luck.  Lisa.>>

Golden Puffer Air sack   4/28/06 Hello, <Hi there> I have a Golden Puffer approx 13 years old/ 8 inches long and is in excellent health. During the past couple of years, air would accumulate and  remain in bladder sac. Usually it would expelled after a day. However this time,  air is remaining in the sac and he is unable to release leaving him on his side.  I have tried netting him to make him expand and he does, however the air still will not release. It has been 36 hours and I am afraid he is getting weaker. I  am desperate for advice.   Thanks, Bill <Mmm, if it were mine... I would try "massaging" the air out of this fish... gently applying pressure with my hands (underwater), from the vent area toward the head/throat, trying to expel the air out the mouth. Bob Fenner>
Re: Golden Puffer Air sack
 4/29/06 Thanks for your assistance... It seemed to work, however he was pretty traumatized during the process. The fish is swimming as normal, however it did  not eat last night or today. Hopefully it will do so tomorrow.... thanks again, Bill <Thank you for this update. There is a high likelihood your puffer will resume feeding and regain its health. Bob Fenner>

Mappa Puffer Shedding??? They do   3/25/06 I have a baby Mappa Puffer, he is only about an inch long. <Wowzah! Tiny!> I have had him for about a month now in a 24 gallon Nano tank. <Grows to be longer than this...http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=7857&genusname=Arothron&speciesname=mappa>  He's been doing great, except I came home today and found him suctioned by the "overflow area", <Doesn't sound so great to me> but he wasn't dead but he is staying at the top of the water looking like he is just floating and sticking his mouth out often for air.  He is also shedding like a snake would, but it isn't all off.  I also tried to feed him, he only eats brine shrimp and tries to east ghost sometimes, but he isn't eating today. <...> It looks like he can't even close his mouth is he wanted to.  Any ideas on what's wrong?? <You're joking right?> I checked ammonia, nitrate, nitrite even salinity and everything is fine.  I did add a plant about a week ago, but I am not sure what kind it is.  I have this plant in another tank as well and everything in there is doing fine. Please help!! Thanks Melissa <... please read WWM re Puffer Systems, Disease... Bob Fenner...>

Puffer Stuck to Powerhead Intake - 2/10/2006 I sent an email last night about my dogface puffer being stuck to my AquaClear 70 powerhead. <<Yes, both received, this one responded to.>> My husband came home and found him like that and unplugged the powerhead and the puff was able to come out and deflate himself, but his body ( his tummy area) was all stretched out of shape which is to be expected. <<Not good news at all.  How big is your puffer?  A healthy puffer should not get stuck to an intake, unless the pull is very strong, and the puffer is small.>> I called my local pet store and they told me to keep trying to feed him and that there is really nothing that I can do at this point. <<Sure there is.  Optimize water quality in a hospital tank, watch for and treat infection, and cover your intake on the powerhead.>> Well I was going to leave him in the main tank but the domino damsels were picking at him where the power head had stretched his skin so much that it looks like he has breaks in the skin in certain areas. <<Not good at all.  Wise to separate them.  You may consider using Melafix to prevent infection here.>> So I couldn't catch the damsels, but was able to easily catch the puff with water from his tank and put him in a 20 gallon with his rock cave that he sleeps in, he is just hovering in the cave, he isn't using his tail fin or anal fin hardly at all since this was smashed up when he was sucked up from the tail end up towards his stomach. I feel bad for the little guy and will put a screen on the power head once I turn it back on. <<Most definitely.>> It did have the tube that narrows down at the end on it I guess it wasn't enough to keep him out. Please advise what I should or can do at this point. <<I am curious to find the underlying cause of your puffer's weakness.  What size is your tank? Tank mates?  Ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte and pH readings? I have a very dim light on, on his hospital tank, which is the same moonlight that I used on the display tank, should I keep it dimly lit or still do the day and night cycles. <<I would keep it dim until he is less stressed.>> Thanks in advance for all your help. <<You're welcome.  Lisa.>>

Puffer with wound that has bugs crawling on it  - 2/21/2006 Hello, I have a dog face puff that got hurt by a powerhead last week, I have been treating him with MelaFix and PimaFix <Worthless> and seems to be healing. I have 2 questions first there are these tiny white bugs on my glass and sand and I have noticed them on the wound area on my puffer, are they hurting my fish or will they just eat off the dead skin that is falling off. <Likely not helpful> 2. I haven't seen my puff eat but a little bite of shrimp the other day, but he continues to poop it is white and falls apart as soon as it leaves his body. If I'm not seeing him eat how is he still having anything to poop out. I just don't know if he might have a digestive  or secondary infection. This is my first puffer and not sure if this is normal. I do have a sand bed in the tank but it isn't sand that he is getting rid of. Thanks for you time. <Please take a read, re-read over the Puffer materials archived on WWM. Bob Fenner>

Dogface Puffer with Ich... Same One That Had a Powerhead  - 2/21/2006 <Hi there, Leslie here with you once again.> Ok well my little guy is still kicking. <Glad to hear the little guy is still with you.> Not eating but is picking at rocks at tank. <Oh bummer I was hoping he would be eating by now.> I'm currently medicating him with PimaFix and MelaFix along with some Zoe and crushed garlic in a jar that was in the spice section of my Wal-Mart. Well after dosing him last night with his medication and garlic this morning I checked on him on my way to work and he is covered with round spots that are raised about the size of sand all over his body fins and all some on his eyes. My question is this, what should I do, his skin is already sensitive on him since he is growing new skin from the accident with the powerhead and stressed out. I don't know if doing a freshwater pH adjusted dip would help or make him worse at this point. <It's hard to say. I would want certainly minimize stress at this point. I find Puffers in general tolerate FW dips very well but since your guy has been through an ordeal and is still not eating. I think I would error on the side of caution and by pass the FW dip at this time.> I turned his temp up to about 82 today and turned on a airstone with a powerhead attached to increase oxygen in the tank. <Good plan for starters.> Can I treat him with copper or would you recommend something else. I have used coppermine in the past but that was on clownfish and it worked great. I just don't want to lose the little guy. <I would not want you to lose him either. I would hold off on the copper. I like to reserve that for situations that do not respond to more conservative measures. I like to use hyposalinity. These 2 links should help you with that http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html http://www.wetwebmedia.com/martrthyposalfaqs.htm > Today when I went to check on him he was in his cave when I came up to the tank he swam out to the front of the glass and hovered there like, look at me I'm covered in Ick help.! <Well responding to your presence is certainly a good sign.> He still has the little copepods on him that were eating off the dead skin which is almost completely gone, too bad they won't eat the Ick too. Oh he is currently at 1.023- 1.024 SG would you suggest lowering it and to what to help with the Ick. <Yes definitely to 1.009, you will find the instructions and necessary info in the articles listed above. Best of luck with your Puffer. HTH, Leslie>
Update on dogface puffer hurt by powerhead, thanks you all - 2/28/2006
GREAT NEWS!! My little dogface puffer started eating again Saturday and he ate some more on Sunday. <Yay!> I soaked his food in Zoe and garlic like I did before the accident. His Ick looks like it is doing much better as well since I lowered the SG and have been treating him with copper, I know most people say not to treat them with copper, but I have spoke to people who have had puffers with Ick and they treated them with Cupramine and had no problems. <Really just have to be careful re low dosage in most cases> His battle wounds from the power head are healing very nicely, he is able to lay on the bottom of the tank and curl up to sleep like he used to instead of having to float at the top of his cave since his stomach hurt too much to lay on it. I think he is going to have a scar from this whole nightmare, I might have to change his name from Mr. puff to Scarface or scrappy since he is such a little trooper I might name him trooper since he patrols the tank :) . <Heee! Better check with Al Pacino...> He went 2 weeks and two days without food. The MelaFix and PimaFix worked wonders along with water changes. My deepest heartfelt thanks to everyone who responded to this topic so that he could get help. You all are the best. One question though, I bought mussels from Kroger that are in the shell, he will eat the mussel if I take it out of the shell but he won't bite at the shell to get it out. <Will in time> This was before he got hurt. But I do feed him live snails and he will bite at them to wear his teeth down. Thanks again for all your great help. Fish hugs for everyone  ><>  ><>  ><> ><> :) <Congratulations on your success, good care. Bob Fenner>

Puffers and copper  2/6/06 It says on your site not to ever treat puffers with copper. <Some folks say...>   I had my  tank at better than 1.5ppm (CopperSafe) for 3 months and my map and dogface are  no worse for the wear as far as I can tell.  I just bought a starry puffer  who was doing great the first day but now seems a little lethargic and not eager to eat.  My copper level is at 1.0 (less than a true therapeutic dose) but  I'm concerned that it may be effecting his health. <... sub-therapeutic doses do more harm than good> I'm going to get all  the copper out of my tank once I get a golden puffer but I don't want to invite another Ich infection before that.  Your input would be appreciated.   Greg <Quarantine, don't crowd... Bob Fenner>
Re: puffers and copper... poor water quality  2/6/06
Also, My starry puffer's skin is pealing off.  I have a 400  gallon tank with: PH-8.3 nitrite 0 ammonia 0 nitrate -80 (I can't seem to keep this under control) Thanks, Greg <The nitrate and what it indicates (other metabolite accumulation) are your root problem here. Fix... see WWM re Nitrates... Bob Fenner>

Puffer with crypt ... maybe not  2/6/06 I have a Dogface puffer and a yellow tang in a 110 gal tank. it has been established for a year. I have had the puffer for 10 months and the tang for 3 or 4 months. the puffer has an abundance of white nodules (like salt)  on his fins and body. I believe this to be crypt. <Nodules? How large are these?> I have lowered the salinity in the tank to 1.017 and raised the temp to 82.  my amm, and no2 were 0 and my no3 were 25 or 30. ph 8.0.  I have formalin 37% solution and rid-Ich. I do not have any copper or the testing for it. I have a well cycled 10 gal qt tank. I also have a 29 gal display that is 18 months old with a damsel and a choc chip star. I am thinking of how to properly treat the puffer and having trouble since the 10 gal is too small for him to stay in for 4 weeks. I can freshwater dip the tang ( who is showing no signs of crypt) and put her in the 29 for the 4 weeks. if I put the puffer in a formalin freshwater dip (10 drops per gal of water, right?) <One way> for 15 min.s and put him in the 10 gal, would he be able to stay in there for 4 weeks without causing more stress?   <Not likely> I would have to do 30 % water changes every other day to keep up with the ammonia.  that would throw off the directions on the formalin of 2 drops per gal on alternate days until no spots remain and then repeat treatment in 10 days. the directions only call for one 25% water change between treatments. I have read other  FAQ's until I'm cross-eyed. please any advice or even confirmation of my own thoughts would be great. I work 60 hours a week and daily water changes would be difficult if not impossible. thanks Beth <Am concerned here with the crypt/Ich pretense... Are none of the other fishes showing signs? I don't think this is crypt if not. Perhaps bolstering the puffers immune system will help with the "nodules"... maybe the addition of a purposeful cleaner. I would try microscopic examination of skin smears here before subjecting these animals to treatment. Bob Fenner>
Re: puffer with crypt   2/7/06
Thanks for getting back to me. Your site has saved a couple of fish for me. Sorry, maybe I used the wrong word when I used the word nodule. It is very small, like 1mm or less--like a grain of table salt. <Oh... thought this was much larger> All the descriptions I saw supported the saltwater Ich/crypt  diagnosis. Unfortunately I don't have access to a microscope. It took a couple days for a response and I felt time was of the essence so I began a treatment regiment. Btw, the tang had been seen scratching once or twice on rocks, but nothing showed on her fins yet. <This family, Order does scratch/flash quite a bit...> They were the only two fish in the tank. I lost a Hawkfish from that tank 4 months back seemed to be bacterial he had lots of redness around mouth and gills.  I freshwater dipped (15 min.s, no formalin) the tang and put her in the 29 gal, it has lots of algae for her to graze on and she is settling in fine with her roommates. I also freshwater dipped the puffer for 15 min.s (careful not to let his mouth or gills out of the water) and put him in a 20 gal Rubbermaid container (clear) with filter, heater, air pump, and aged/oxygenated saltwater. It also had formalin in it according to the bottle ( 2 drops per gal). All of the grains fell off his body in the freshwater dip. <Does sound parasitic then> About half of the grains on his fins are gone. He has been in the  "hospital tank" for 24 hours. Using a quick dip the ph is 8.2, the no2 is 0, and the no3 is 0. This sg is 1.018 ( I had lowered the main tank to 1.017) The formalin bottle says to treat every other day until all signs of disease is gone and then do a 25% water change. <Yes, or more> Then to re treat in 10 days  to prevent reinfestation. <And leave the infested system fallow as well...> The puffer is active and appears hungry. I am going to give him a small piece of shrimp to keep his strength up. If there is anything I am doing wrong or anything else I should do please advise. The move from tank to dip to tank did not seem to stress him much-- he didn't even puff a little and allowed himself to be cradled in my hand. If you feel the puffer would be better in the main tank without the formalin treatment I value your opinion.  I had planned on letting the 110 run fallow for  4 to 6 weeks so I have no worries when I get another fish for that tank. Thanks again for everything Beth <I would proceed as you have outlined, and done. Bob Fenner>

Re: Sick Dog Faced Puffer?... Update 2    2/3/06 Not sure if the previous emails got rejected because of jpg attachment? <Mmm, don't know... have you seen responses before?> Update 2 10 Hours later After the puffing up incident, the dog face died half an hour later (just fell from the top of the water to the bottom and died within minutes) After reporting that his tankmate (the Valentini) was fine, he has now developed the same "caved in" body at the back and has been breathing heavily laying on the rocks for the last couple of hours. Could this be some form of parasite doing this? <Mmm, not likely this quickly... but possible> The only other thing I can think of is a possible lack of oxygen in the tank? <Maybe... not uncommon> All other tests are fine (unless a nitrate reading of 15 ppm could do this??) <No> Hope to hear from you soon Thanks Phil <Bob Fenner>

Dogface Puffer fin in gill Question   1/20/06 Hello,           I am the proud owner of a 1 yr. old Dogface Puffer and something strange is going on with him. It appears as though one of his side fins- the ones right behind is gills, has been sucked into the gills. <Can/does happen> I researched the topic and found nothing. If you had any feedback, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Josh <I would catch this fish (with two nets, directing the fish with one into the other) and gently pull the pectoral fin out. Bob Fenner>

Puffer Parasite  10/4/05 I have a Dog faced Puffer in a 265 Gal tank with a few other fish in a FOWLR system. I have had Cujo for well over a year probably 2 yrs and purchased him at about 5 inches. He's now in the vicinity of 9". Immediately after I quarantined him I noticed he had a little growth (some type of crustacean looking parasite) on his right fin. I treated it and it never fully went away just got smaller. Well, he's been in the tank for quite some time and very rarely does it ever appear to bother him but it does seem to have grown and looks like it's part of his fin. What should I do? <I'd try to remove this growth manually... with strong forceps, someone else holding the fish in a net, with a wet towel around it> I'll try to get some pics this weekend. I've heard from local stores I should take him out of the tank and using tweezers pull it off taking some fin with it. Not sure if that's accurate. Any info would be most appreciated. <This is what I would do... and maybe daub the site with a mercurical. Bob Fenner> Patrick J.  Hynes What would be considered a Mercurical?  A copper medication? <Mmm, like mom used to use on scrapes... Mercurochrome, Merbromin, Merthiolate... Bob Fenner>

Fugu questions 8/18/05 <Hi there!  Heather (LinearChaos) here> At my LFS there are 4 3" Takifugu rubripes.  They are in horrible condition.  Instead of being green with neon orange they are silver and a dingy brick red. <The Takifugu rubripes is not a puffer that is sold in the trade, this is actually a species that is eaten as a delicacy in Japan.  The puffer you are describing is the Takifugu ocellatus.>  They are also ungodly cheap ($15 a piece).  <Wow! That is cheap!>  I was wondering for now would a 30 gallon tank be big enough for now.  I have no problem upgrading later.  I have no experience with these guys.  <No, this species is extremely aggressive toward their own and 4 in a 30g won't last but a week.  They'll nip each other to death almost immediately since they will not be able to get away from each other in that size tank and cannot establish territories.>  I am aware of how hard they are to keep in captivity.  Also there is very little information on these puffers.  Do you know what salinity, hardness, temperature, etc... they prefer.  Any help would be great.  <I have successfully kept 3 of these puffers in an established full marine environment for over a year, the salinity is 1.019 and the temp is 82*F.  The tank is 55g and is heavily stocked with live rock to break up the lines of sight as much as possible to reduce aggression.  Please, if you are unable to care for these puffers appropriately do not purchase them.  ~Heather> Logan

Arothron hispidus Teeth 8/7/05 Hi Just a quick question I would appreciate your help with. My tank had a large amount of brown diatom growth in it, I had quite a lot of silicates coming through my RO filter which I  have removed with Rowaphos, now within 1 month it has virtually all gone ... except for what looks like diatom growth on my puffers well worn teeth!! I have tried to remove it with a toothbrush but to no avail!! <Heeee! I'll bet the oral dentifrice companies would like to sponsor a session...> Is this likely to be a problem for him or is it harmless? Thank you Dave Squire (England) <No problem Dave... Maybe try some shellfish (cockles, mussels, shrimp) to help with the grinding/whitening process. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Lumpy puffer 7/30/05 Hello WWM Crew, I have to compliment you on the wonderful advice you continue to offer to everyone involved in fish keeping. <Thanks kindly> Here's the deal. I have owned a stars & stripes puffer for almost three years (about 10" in length now). He is a very hardy fish who eats vigorously and lives an active life. Although I have noticed recently the area around his anal fin is slowly swelling. <Hmmm... have you added any new livestock recently without properly quarantining it? Snails, algae, fish, live rock, coral... anything wet in the last several weeks? I fear a pathogen here. Many possibilities though for "lump". Do look up "lump disease" in our archives and beyond. It afflicts Arothrons like yours and has been going around lately> He's currently eating frozen chunks of squid soaked, occasionally soaked with a garlic supp. He's still eating fine and behaving normally, but I want to catch a problem early if there is one. He lives in a 140 gal. tank w/ a Fiji damsel. Amm 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrates between 30-50 (set up a refuge this week, hopefully this will help). %10 weekly water changes. The only thing I've introduced in the last four months was some macro-algae for the refuge. <Hmmm... four months ago is likely far enough away... still, please QT always> Thanks for the advice, just concerned over my beloved pet! Sincerely, Andrew Stretch <we need much more to go on here Andrew than simply "lump". Please do browse the WWM archives on disease and on Arothrons to see if anything looks similar. A pic would be helpful to us too. Kindly, Anthony>

Porcupine Puffer & Medications Hello there! I am hoping you can clarify something for me, we recently had a "spike" in nitrates in our saltwater fish tank. All fish came down with Ich, which has seemed to subside after several dips in freshwater & Methylene blue. <"Subside" is a good term... the causative organism is very likely still present> Now, we are running into what seems to be a fungal infection. <Very likely secondary... from the medication, handling above> Last night we noticed our porcupine puffer has severe cloud eye in both eyes and has lost his appetite, and our blue tang is coming down with same. It seems to be spreading to all fish rapidly. Last night we performed at 30% water change. I have read several articles about how to treat these things & the most common way seems to be with Maracyn 2 - my concern is that this will be hurtful to the health of the porcupine puffer, as they are "scaleless". We have also been treating with Melafix daily. <A product of more than dubious utility here... I would not use it> We are planning to start major treatments tonight. The plan is to treat with recommended Epsom salt @ 1tbs/5 gal in addition to a dosage of Maracyn 2 (all carbon has been removed). This was very sudden, we discovered that one of our test kits was inaccurate, which in return gave us the conclusion to our health problems! All other tests indicate 0: ammonia, nitrite, ph @ 8.0, nitrate @ 40. Water temp has been raised to 80 - I know there are several articles addressing different issues, my largest concern right now is the Maracyn 2 being harmful to the puffer. Thanks so much, you all are truly wonderful & a necessity to the hobby! ~The Gilmores <This Mardel product should be okay to use... do monitor your nitrogen cycle and be ready to change out large volumes of water. Bob Fenner>

Dogface Puffer is shriveling and shrinking Hello, I have been coming and reading your many of the answers to my questions on your website and it has been extremely helpful. My dogface puffer is in trouble. He was suffering from Ich. I put him in a hospital tank and began treating him with Formalin-3. <Very toxic as am sure you're aware> First, my water levels are fine. He is in a 10 gal hospital tank. Before treating I would do a 40-50% water change. I followed the directions on the bottle for medicating the hospital tank. I used natural light. I get plenty of natural light in the room where the tank is. I did this for 7 days. He was doing great!  The Ich appeared to be gone and he was eating well. He was very active and doing fine. On day eight, I stopped the treatment. Tested water. ammonia <2 ppm, 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites. On day eight, he stopped eating. He looks as though he suffered a stroke. His eyes are sunken. Caudal fin is folded in and it seems he can't seem to unfold. He looks frightening thin and shriveled/shrunken. He tries to open his caudal fin and it seems painful for him. The stomach is extremely inverted and shrunken. He is losing his color and becoming blotchy.  What could be wrong? I think he going to die. Should I euthanize? He looks so terrible and seems to be suffering. Help <I would hold off on euthanizing this specimen, but want to state here that I also would not treat marine fishes with formalin as anything other than an extended dip/bath... Please see here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/formalinart.htm.  Your puffer has been poisoned... hopefully it will recover. Bob Fenner> 

Golden puffer with Ich Hi MacL- <Hi Jason> Thank you again for your help and your kind words about my concern. I view keeping fish as a tremendous responsibility and feel very strongly that it is important to do everything that I can to make their lives in captivity happy and healthy. So my approach to the gold puffer was to be as aggressive as possible in trying to save him. After my last email but before I received your response, I could not get the water quality under control in my 40 gallon QT so I elected to move him to my 46 gallon tank. <I can understand why you did that for sure.> I did about a 25% water change to lower the copper levels even more and after the change, they measured about 0.05. I acclimated the puffer for about one hour to try to ease the shock of changing water and moved him over. The water parameters in the new tank were: Salinity 1.023 Ammonia 0 mg/l pH 8.2 Nitrite 0 mg/l Nitrate 10 mg/l Temp 80.1 The puffer sat on the bottom of the tank and continued to breath very heavily.  He also had very cloudy eyes and his gills looked irritated (not quite red but pretty bright pink) and their were some white spots that looked like Ich on his gills (this wasn't the case the day before so I fear the Ich was back again unless white spots on the gills could be something else).  The next morning he looked ok, swimming around a bit but still breathing very heavily. I came home in the afternoon and found that I'd lost him. <I am so sorry to hear that, once the Ich gets to his gills its a very difficult battle.> I'm deeply saddened but want to thank you again for your help and also feel confident that I went down guns a blazing.  <I really do think you did the very best you could.> So now, a few follow up items.  I know you should never buy a sick fish and I violated that rule in this instance b/c I have been looking for a great gold puffer for a long time and he was a beautiful specimen, looked at me with puppy dog eyes and appeared to only have a minor case of Ich. Since I have a QT I thought I could nurse him back to health without jeopardizing my other fish.  I don't think he stood a chance if I didn't get him b/c I think it is unlikely that someone else would have made the investment of money and time required to try to save him. I think you are correct that he was extremely sensitive to water quality but that surprises me, I thought puffers were very hardy and disease resistant? <Most are tough but believe me the trip they make from where they are caught can be rough, rough, rough.> On the UV sterilizers, I can't remember the exact flow rates but I optimized for a parasite killing flow rates when I set them up. <So you set it up perfectly.> The bulbs were replaced in January so they are approximately three months old.  I probably need to check how clean they are now to make sure that they are still effective. <If you didn't get the kind that has a way to clean the bulbs its good to clean them every month or so I understand.> Do you still recommend a diatom filter for my systems?  If so, would you keep it running all the time or only use part time or in emergencies? <I use a diatom filter for emergencies and to keep my tank looking crystal clear.> What follow-up, if any, do you recommend for my 46 gallon tank which was healthy but may now have some Ich (or other problem) in it since the puffer was in the tank (albeit for less than 24 hours). <He probably was in there long enough to put the Ich there but if the fish in there are healthy they might not fall prey to the disease. Often fish seem to have an immunity to Ich when they are content and happy.>  Also, any follow up actions on my QT?  I can fallow it for as long as necessary but then I need to cycle it all over again (ARGH). <I understand there is good stuff being said about some biological products, Stability by Seachem and marine max by Tropical Science I think. That might be solution to that.> Lastly, do you recommend keeping some fish, and perhaps a big fish to keep a big load, in the QT to keep it cycled all the time? <That's how lots of people do it or they use a sponge filter kept in larger tanks all the time running then move it over when the quarantine tank needs to be up and running. Good luck and I hope you find another one that's in good health.> Thanks- Jason

Dog face puffer Hi! I have just found your site and would like to ask you about a dogface puffer (grey). I have just got this puffer and he/she seems very happy, eating well, and very active, but has turned dark brown and curled up a little in a corner. And I am a bit worried about him. Do you have any advice for me? <I would double check water quality, first. Also, know that puffers are sensitive to metals and many medications, in case you are using as a prophylactic.> I have had puffers for a while but not marine just fresh. <Take a look here for additional insight, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tetraodontpuffers.htm > Thanks for any help, Donna <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>
More Sick Dog Face Puffer
Thank you so much! I just wanted to comment, that this 200 is the quarantine tank. <Wow, so how big is your display tank?> I just thought I would automatically treat with hyposalinity instead of just waiting and watching and then probably more likely doing it anyways. <Ok> Does it not count as a quarantine tank because of it's size? <It would not count as a quarantine tank if it is not set up like one, bare bottom, no calcareous media, no other fish or inverts, etc. Please see here for more information http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm > I got the information on the dip from Bob Fenner's book. I would just like to ask "what you would do"? <My SOP is to quarantine and begin daily water changes. It is very effective against Cryptocaryon and has other beneficial effects (maximize water quality, spur the immune system of the fish, and mildly effective against bacterial secondary infections).> Today he looks and acts totally normal. <That is good.> Thanks again, Lynn <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

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