Nasol Dis Diag F

FAQs about Naso lituratus Disease Diagnosis

FAQs on Lipstick Tang Disease: Lipstick Tang Disease 1, Lipstick Tang Disease 2, Lipstick Tang Disease 3, Lipstick Tang Disease 4, Lipstick Tang Disease ,
FAQs on Lipstick Tang Disease by Category: Environmental, Nutritional, Social, Trauma, Pathogenic (plus see Tangs/Rabbitfishes & Crypt), Genetic, Treatments

Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Naso Tang with skin issue 2/23/18
Hello. I have a Naso Tang with some white scratches and areas of what appear to be slightly raised lumps.

I first thought they could be from scratches from the live rock. She has a great appetite and is behaving normally. Any insight?
Ragan Wilson
<Mmm; yes... likely a nutritional issue here; but could have trauma/physical damage, water quality component/influences as well. This fish is too thin (has a low index of fitness). I'd have you read on WWM re
Naso and Naso lituratus period; esp. nutrition/feeding. Do so. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso Tang with skin issue 2/23/18
Ok, thanks. I’ve been treating the Naso for Ick with copper and am on the third week of treatment.
<Acanthurids and Cu don't mix. PLEASE read where you've been referred. You're poisoning your fish>
She is eating very well but now I’m concerned that maybe the copper is affecting her nutrition.
<Ah; you are wise here; or at least knowledgeable>
I don’t see any signs of Ick but was told to treat the parasite for 28 days. Do you think I should stop the treatment early? Thanks again.
<Yes I would. BobF>
Ragan Wilson
Re: Naso Tang with skin issue 2/23/18
For future reference, what is your method for treating Ich?
<Haaaaa: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
and the linked files above. B>
Ragan Wilson

stocking question; Naso lituratus losses 4/10/15
Hello Crew,
I am almost done stocking my aquarium and I have a problem needing an unbiased opinion. First the setup - 180 FOWLR and live sand. It has been up and running for two years; I have been patient stocking. Two internal overflows going into a 40 gallon sump with two Tunze pumps each pushing about 450 GPH, a Tunze protein skimmer rated for a 250 gallon tank, and
three internal circulation pumps in the main display pushing about 1800 GPH between them.
The tank is stocked with two zebra barred gobies (had three but one jumped out when they were in my 55 gallon two years ago), one male melanurus wrasse, one male solar fairy wrasse,
<Cirrhilabrus are social... would be better w/ a few females>
one auriga butterfly, one yellow eyed Kole tang, a six inch magnificent foxface, and a four inch juvenile emperor angel. There are also hermit crabs, a cleaner shrimp and some snails.
All of the fish except for the angel have been in the tank from 2 years to four months. I wanted to finish off the stocking the tank a few months ago with the angel and a blonde Naso tang. I saw a healthy Naso at a LFS that had been there for four weeks and was eating. I acclimated him to my tank. She ate Mysis shrimp, algae strips and new era discs for the 1st couple of days, stopped eating on the 4th day, hid on the 5th day and perished on day 6. I saw no bullying. My water parameters are 74.5 degrees,
PH 8.3, salinity 1.022,
<I'd raise this>
ammonia zero, nitrites zero and nitrates 5PPM. This LFS is known to keep small traces of copper in their tanks to ward off ich
<Most do>
and I am not sure if some damage had been done previously in the store.
After a couple of weeks I decided to try my luck with a mail order store, Blue Zoo Aquatics. I had purchased one of my wrasses with them and was happy with the results. I ordered a 4 inch blonde Naso and the emperor angel. Both came in fine, drip acclimated with no problems and went in the tank fine. Both were eating by the end of the 1st day. The Naso stopped
eating on day 2and was dead by the 3rd morning. The emperor has been fine for a week and a half.
I am devastated seeing two beautiful fish perish like this. I have a store credit from Blue Zoo, but I do not want to be responsible for aiding in the early demise of another Naso. Is there something I am doing or failing to do resulting in the losses?
<Naso lituratus just "is" that touchy in being moved, placed in captive settings>
Is my tank maybe not suitable for a Naso?
<Marginally; being a stock 180 I take it, in terms of being six feet wide...>
I could always buy a couple of medium sized Heniochus and consider my stocking complete, or do you think I would be able to add a Naso in one last time? thank you for your help
Rich
<I'd opt for another, hardier Tang here. Bob Fenner>

MHLLE question 2/27/13
Hey everybody,
I am so glad I found WWM. What an invaluable resource! You are now the only place I go for anything saltwater related. There is so much misinformation on the web, its mind boggling. Now to my question. After searching your forums, it seems that my large Naso may be suffering from MHLLE. I have read every thread you have on this and have followed all recommendations, but I feel like it might be progressing, thereby making me wonder if I have it identified correctly.
<This looks more like something viral... growing out of neuromasts about the head>
Attached is a picture of his head. It started out as a couple small “pimples,” but progressed rather rapidly. It seems like within a matter of a few days, it went from a few pimples to warts. Now it looks like masses and getting some holes. I am concerned that it seems to be progressing on one side and not the other. I have read that MHLLE is bilateral. This started out as bilateral (with a preference for one side), but one side seems to have cleared up while the other is getting worse.
When I initially noticed the bumps (within a day or two of them appearing), I inquired at the LFS and was told that it was probably MHLLE and was instructed to treat with Metro in his food.
<Mmm, won't help here>
I did this for a few days in his pellets until he quit eating pellets, I assume because of the taste.
After I found someone who knew what they were talking about and they identified it as a nutritional deficiency and not a parasite or protozoa, I changed his diet and quit the Metro (he had been on Metro for 5 days). I got some NLS pellets and Ocean Nutrition seaweed with garlic. He wasn’t interested in the pellets, but would devour the seaweed and come back for more.
Then I found your site and read every thread you have on MHLLE. I felt good that I had obtained the NLS pellets, and also went and got some Nori and Selcon. He still wouldn’t eat the NLS but loved the Nori and Selcon.
A little history: I ordered this tang sight unseen about 3 months ago from the LFS. I had a 10g QT set up and ready to go and when he came in. He was supposed to be about 3”, but he was almost 7” long. Much too large for my QT system so I had to make the call to acclimate and add to the display since it was late and there wasn’t a local store open to get a bigger QT. I wasn’t too worried as the tank was new (2 months without any fish) and he was the only fish in there. My new system is 400g and will ultimately be a reef setup, although it is now mostly LR (500lbs) and a few mushrooms. The tank had been running fishless for 2 months prior to adding the Naso. It had already cycled. The ammonia was 0, the nitrites 0, nitrates 5-10 using API test kit (the colors look the same to me on the 5 and 10), phosphates about .05 using Elos test kit. Ph 8.0-8.1, water temp 77F, salt mix Red Sea Coral Pro (1.025), RO/DI water testing zero TDS,
Marineland Black Diamond carbon, Super Reef Octopus 5000 skimmer, 800 micron filter socks, and LED lighting.
The fish was fine for the first 2 months. When I saw no signs of disease, I started to add new fish that I had acquired and had waiting in QT. They were all added over several weeks to give the system a chance to catch up. New additions were: a yellow tang and a purple tang (3”), a Hippo tang (5”), a school of Banggai Cardinals (8), a school of Lyretail Anthias (8). The whole tank was very harmonious.
For the first couple of months, the Naso only really showed an interest in PE Mysis shrimp. After finding out that it might be a nutritional deficiency, I cut out the PE and tried to get him onto pellets and seaweed. About that time, I also acquired a Blue Jaw Trigger from a friend (6”). This fish was very high energy. He was never aggressive towards other fish, but at feeding time, he would charge right through the crowd to get his portion and everybody else’s. This would sometimes make the Naso shy away. I don’t know if this could be causing stress to the Naso and be a contributing factor.
<Not likely much>
The Naso has not had any PE Mysis shrimp in 2 weeks and has been eating Selcon soaked Nori every day for the last 3 days. He is starting to warm up to the NLS pellets and eats 4-5 1mm pellets at feeding time (2-3 times a day). He spits out the 2mm pellets. He has been eating the pellets for 3 days. I think he would eat the Nori continuously if I gave it to him. That is all he begs for. My question is: does this look like MHLLE, even though it isn’t bilateral?
<It does not>
Is it common for it to progress for a bit once nutrition is corrected, before it starts to reverse? I feel like my water quality is good. My RedOx is consistently between 350-400. I do 10% water changes every other week. I had been running carbon but just removed it today after I felt sure any Metro that was in the water was gone. I have read on your site that carbon could contribute. I will now run without carbon for a bit. I also added Phoslock to remove any remaining phosphates.
<Mmm, I'd allow some HPO4 here; not use chemical filtrant/s>
I just want to feel confident that I have identified the problem correctly and that I am treating appropriately to give him the best chance. Thanks for all that you do. James
<T'were it me/mine, I'd continue as you have, and add some purposeful cleaners here. Likely Lysmata species. Hopefully their presence will tip the balance and stir your Naso to self-improvement. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang 1/30/11
My Naso Tang has fleshy bumps on it's head. He looks very sick. I treated the tank for Ich once and there was no change. He is kind of just trying to stay afloat between the air pump and algae skimmer
magnet. Please help. Thank you.
Julia
<Julia, there is no useful data here at all. Please write back with a description of your system incl. tankmates & sizes, parameters, what treatments have been added when and one or more photos as detailed here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/wwmadminsubwebindex/question_page.htm.
Thank you, Simon>

Naso death 10/14/10
Hi crew,
<Karina>
Unfortunately, I am writing under tragic circumstances. I'm hoping you'll be able to enlighten me. I recently lost my blonde Naso tang under rather mysterious circumstances.
<Does happen>
I have a 180 gallon reef with a 55 gallon sump/refugium. My tank has been up for 2 years, spg 1.026,
ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 15. The contents are from a previous 55 gallon that was set up for 6 years before being transferred. I haven't tested any other parameters for a while. I do weekly 30 gallon water changes. I had the Naso for about a year. I got it because I had a dreadful Dictyota problem, and nothing would eat it but this little guy.
What an amazing job it did, and it quickly became my favorite fish. A few days ago, I noticed that it had a small brown spot on the base of it's tail. I didn't think much of it. I attributed it to a mechanical injury of some kind. The next day, the spot had spread to half of the fish's body. It was just brown, no peeling or loss of scales. Blondie was still eating prepared foods and picking off the rocks though, and I had no prepared sea water to set up a hospital tank. The third day, I found it wedged between two rocks, dead as a doornail. The brown completely covered one side of it's body. Very sad day. Now I'm trying to find the culprit. I've only recently discovered that sea urchins are poisonous. I found a small one when I first set up the 55 all those years ago. It was about the size of a dime. Now it's about the size of a golf ball, and has pink pointy tips. It's always on the glass though, I rarely see it among the rocks. Could the Naso have accidentally swam into the urchin and been poisoned?
<Mmm, not likely>
I'm asking so I know whether it would be smart to remove it. Other inhabitants are a pair of black Ocellaris clowns, a canary wrasse, melanurus wrasse, Tailspot blenny, sunburst Anthias, and a blotched Hawkfish. I really don't know, aside from the urchin, what could've caused this rapid demise. All my other fish are perfectly fine. Please share your thoughts and ideas.
Thanks,
Karina
<Nothing "jumps out" as a probable cause here Karina... to use your adverb, unfortunately this genus at times appears to die mysteriously... From? Stress? I would state that "on average", specimens/species of Naso kept in larger systems "die less often mysteriously", have greater survival, longer life times in captivity. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang with White Blotches - 6/11/10
Bob,
<Simon with you today Brian>
I acquired a Blond Naso Tang that has white blotches on its body. I have QT'd the fish for over a week now and they have not changed at all.
<Mmm>
The blotches are not raised, they have no texture, and the fish is eating, breathing, and seems healthy. The marks don't go away, don't get worse, but they don't get better either.
<Yes, I see these>
I have attached a picture for you. I have yet to medicate, copper, or do anything as I don't know what I am dealing with.
<Well done.. no treatment required here>
Any thoughts?
<Yes. These look like stress marks/ colouration to me.. is the fish in a confined space?. how is your water quality? Nitrates? Are there many or aggressive tankmates? These marks should disappear with improved conditions.. namely lots of roaming space, high turbulent water flow & RedOx for this fish>
Thank you for your time. I appreciate your site, Brian
<No problem Brian, Simon>

Re: Naso Tang with White Blotches - 6/11/10
Simon,
<Brian>
Right now he is in a 10 Gallon QT with rock and little water flow.
<There you go!>
His prior owner had him in a 55 gallon tank <Ditto. Far too small> and I would question the water
quality. <Double ditto>. I plan to put him in a 180 gallon reef tank <Much better> with lots of flow, but
wanted to QT him until I knew what the marks were and rule out disease.
<All fishes should be quarantined anyway>
Since he had the marks in his previous tank, I didn't want to take chances.
Do you think I should just put him in the 180 now, or QT him for another week or two?
<I would go at least two weeks here, maybe three but can't you get a bigger QT tank? A 10 gallon QT for a 180 is inadequate IMO. You would be better off procuring a second hand 55 for probably pennies somewhere>
He has shown no signs of disease, but it has only been a week.
<Indeed. I would prolong this period in a larger QT with some vigorous circulation (plus an airstone) and see how he responds. Block out the sides and back of the QT tank with some dark paper or something so he does not
feel 'exposed'.>
Thanks again,
<It's a pleasure to help people and fish alike!>
Brian
<Simon>

Naso Tang And Aiptasia, hlth. and control 1/12/10
<Hello Michele>
We need help with a Naso tang that may not be with us for long.
<Oh? Let's hope not.>
Tank stats: 250 gallon LPS/SPS reef with an additional 400 gallons of supporting tanks (fuge, sump, frag tank, etc.).
<Sounds like a great system.>
Inhabitants are 7 inch Naso tang, 7 inch Rabbitfish, 5 inch Yellow tang, and pair of Ocellaris
clowns. All fish have been together for over 3 years and exhibit no apparent aggression toward each other. Ammonia/nitrites/nitrates are zero, pH 8, SP 1.025, and temperature 78 normally.
<Sounds good.>
Currently, we probably only due <do> a water change of about 10 percent every 3 to 4 weeks b/c everything always tests zero and we feel like we have a low bioload for 650 gallons.
<Water quality and test results are two different subjects. You mention no use of a protein skimmer and is one component very necessary for improving water quality, especially with keeping sensitive tangs.>
Tank has been set up for about 2 1/2 years.
Tank has been unremarkable except for the following issues. We fought a Dinoflagellate problem about 8 or 10 months ago and we currently have an Aiptasia problem. Aiptasia X will keep them in check, but we have not been able to completely eradicate them.
<Ah, the scorn of many a reef keeper and sometimes difficult to eradicate.>
Aiptasia X has not been used in the tank in the last few weeks. About one month ago we purchased a Copperband Butterflyfish. After an abbreviated QT (2 weeks) we introduced the fish (was bright and eating commercial food as well as picking at rock). Shortly after introduction the Yellow tang showed aggression and left a lesion on the side of the Butterflyfish (bite, tang, not sure). We split the fish, but the butterfly died shortly thereafter. We assumed it was from stress and trauma from the Yellow tang, but now I'm worried it was disease b/c of the shortened QT and the sick Naso. One additional issue is temperature. Due to the current cold climate (single digits with a wind chill below zero...brrr!!!) our temperature dropped to 75 about a week ago. We insulated the pipes (they run below the house to the supporting tanks in a separate room) and got the temperature back up to 78. Would a temperature change of 3 degrees over a few days be enough for a problem?
<Unlikely over a three day span.>
So the problem: Our Naso tang had an acute onset of lethargy and weight loss about 3 days ago. She sits on the bottom of the tank with a rapid respiration rate. She has profound weight loss, but no other apparent external lesions.
<Mmm, not good.>
She will occasionally swim to the other side of the tank and back, but typically just rests on the bottom of the tank. The other fish hover close by, but don't seem to be doing any harm other than psychological. It looks like they are providing comfort to their sick tankmate, but I realize it's nature saying "hmm, weak fish, let's kill it." She shows minimal interest in eating. She did possibly eat a flake or two soaked in Selcon last night. Typical diet is a mixture of seafood treats, Nori sheets, Spectrum pellets, and flake.
So, we are torn on what to do. Should we separate her into a hospital tank for treatment? I see nothing wrong except the weight loss and respiratory rate, so I don't what I would be treating for...bacterial infection, internal parasite???
<Best not to treat until a positive diagnosis can be made.>
I think moving her would provide more stress, but we are open to suggestions. Should we try and separate the Rabbitfish and Yellow tang to the other side of the tank to give her time to possibly heal? We have searched for any possible contaminants to the tank with no ideas.
<I would discontinue the use of Aiptasia X for the time being. I've heard/read articles that some fish, mostly blennies have negative reactions to this product if ingested.
My understanding of Aiptasia X is that the active ingredients are suspended in some kind of 'Micella'
which is like a liquid capsule and only after ingested by the anemone it becomes free.
This leads me to believe it could have adverse reactions to fish but I have no documented proof of that. I'm hoping Bob and/or other crew members might comment here as well.>
The other fish look fine, but I suppose the Naso would be the most susceptible fish to disease of the ones we have.
<Yes. What types of food was your Naso eating. Proper nutrition goes a long way in disease prevention by increasing the fishes immunity level. The New Life Spectrum Pellets are an excellent nutritional source of food and is the only food I feed/use. Do visit, read, and look at the video at their site. http://nlsfishfood.com/ >
I know it's hard to make a diagnosis without seeing the fish or our system, but if anything comes to mind please let us know or refer us where to read.
<Yes, do read here and linked files in the header. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso_lituratus.htm >
On a separate note, we are desperately trying to get rid of the Aiptasia. The Aiptasia X has helped, but not eradicated the problem.
We were using so much of it, we were concerned it might affect our water quality! We would like to introduce a fish (removing Yellow tang first) that would eat them, but I'm not sure if that's possible. I'm hesitant to try another Copperband with their sensitive history and our bad story. We had considered a Raccoon Butterflyfish and then moving it to another tank before it developed an affinity for the SPS. I've read the FAQs and articles on Butterflyfish and I know they may eat Aiptasia, but I'm not sure if they have a preference for the Aiptasia and would leave corals alone until the Aiptasia are gone or if they would just mow down all corals and Aiptasia together. Perhaps it's based on the individual fish and you can't give a definitive answer on that one.
<The Berghia Nudibranch is known to consume Aiptasia and you may want to read here regarding this. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nudiaipfaqs.htm>
Thank you for providing a wonderful website and answering everyone's questions! If I have missed something in the FAQs (I'm sure I have) please refer me where to read. The whole reason we have the 250 is because we bought this Naso on an impulse purchase 3 1/2 years ago.
When we realized she was totally inappropriate for our 90 gallon, we started making plans for the 250 and moved her the next year. We are going to be so sad to lose her!!!
<Do read re above and do increase your water change frequency. Tangs of this genus are very demanding of high water quality and here is where a good efficient skimmer will help, along with the use of a chemical media such as Chemipure. And lets hope you will not lose your Naso. James (Salty Dog)>
Michele
Re Naso Tang And Aiptasia/Health And Control 1/12/10
James,
<Michele>
Thanks for the quick reply.
<You're welcome.>
I will read where referred. To answer your questions...Yes, we use a protein skimmer and Chemipure.
<May I ask which brand name and model of skimmer? Do keep in mind that you are skimming 600+ gallons of water and not 250, providing all of your systems are tied together.>
We also feed New Life Spectrum Pellets as the main food with flake, Nori sheets, and assorted seafood bites for treats.
<Great!>
On further examination of the tang, she has a slight tattering to her dorsal and caudal fins, so I'm wondering if we are dealing with a bacterial infection such as Finrot which I know goes back to water quality! We had already done as you suggested and stopped the Aiptasia X about a month ago because we were concerned over affecting water quality with the huge amount we had been using.
Thanks for the help...fingers crossed for her, but it doesn't look good!
<If you could send a couple of pics it may help us identify the problem.
If I cannot help you here, Mr. Fenner (The Big Fish) is much more educated on disease then I, and I'm sure he would be more than happy to look at the pics for you and offer some help and/or suggestions. <<Ok. RMF>>
James (Salty Dog)>
Michele
Re Naso Tang And Aiptasia/Health And Control 1/13/10
<Hello Michele>
Sadly the tang had died by last night.
<Sorry to hear.>
We still saw no external marks on her, but we didn't post her. Although I'm a vet, I would have no idea about fish!
<Understandable.>
We have an <Reeflo> Orka protein skimmer and I'm unsure of the model, but hubby assures me it is rated for the 650 gallons.
<Am familiar and is manufactured by Sequence, and I might add, a very, very, good skimmer.>
We get about one gallon of skimmate a week.
<Wowsa, but not surprising coming from that unit.>
Hopefully we will never know what happened to her, but I have a bad feeling it will be another fish soon!
My biggest worry is that the Copperband introduced something to the system last month. Hopefully not.
<I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you, but keep in mind that even with the best systems, survival is not guaranteed, and due in part to the enormous stress the fish go through from the reef to your tank. You have a system that should easily sustain most marine life providing they are healthy to begin with, and is why selection is an important facet of this hobby.>
Thanks for your comments as always.
Love the site!
<Thank you, and you are most welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Michele

Blonde Naso, hlth., sel. 7/10/09
I've had my Naso for one week. She was beautiful. I have a 150 gallon tank and have a Snowflake Eel, Banana Wrasse, Fox Face, and 4 Damsels. My husband forgot to turn the lights on yesterday and when I got home, she was dead laying on the sand and had a marble sized bulge coming from her stomach. Do you know what this could be?
<This soon from acquisition... Most likely damage from "needling" from collection (a practice to "let out" air for more rapid ascent... rather than waiting, hauling up collection buckets...) Had your store had this animal on hand for a period of time before your acquisition? Better to wait, a good week... Bob Fenner>
Thank you!
Alison Aquino-Sanchez

Naso Tang: System\Health\Shipping Stress. 3/14/2009
<Hi Paul>
I have a 125 (6' long) all fish.
I have some live rock (1) blue tang, (1) clown, (1) damsel, (1) mandarin,((1) yellow tang, (3) emerald crabs, (3) cleaner shrimp, several snails, (2) sally crabs, and several hermit crabs.
<Pretty closed to maxed out as far as stocking is concerned>
All the water parameters are exactly where they should be.
<Actual readings would be helpful.>
The tank has been set up for 6 months and have not had one problem with it.
I started out with a 30 a couple of years ago and learned from there.
<OK>
Three weeks ago I purchased a (Naso) Tang (west indies?) from Saltwaterfish.com.
<What kind? I am going to assume Naso lituratus Totally inappropriate for a tank this size and with this level of stocking.>
When it got here it was very lethargic and couldn't seem to get off of its side. It carried on approximately two days this way and then started swimming upright.
<How big was the fish - Fish under four inches rarely adapt to captivity.
Also, it is imperative to get them eating immediately.>
During this time it didn't eat and I let it go for three more days and it went back over on its side and never recovered. I subsequently got my credit for the fish and decided to use it to order a larger Hawaiian Naso Tang. (after the acclimation period)
<Any Quarantine?>
I put it in the tank and it just laid on its side. After several hours it righted itself and seemed to be swimming OK.
<Shipping\environmental stress, starvation.>
It has yet to eat and this morning it is listing to one side like the other one did. I have tried everything I can think of, "entice", krill, algae, flake food, etc. but it will not eat. The other fish in the tank are loving the different variety of things I have offered.
<You may want to try some live Brine Shrimp>
Am I missing something? I hate to lose the guy he is very pretty but am at my wits end. I contacted a local fish store about some help but he was as clueless as me on what to do.
<There is much to learn here. Firstly, Nasos get BIG, needing hundreds of gallons. Being in conditions too small will stress them to death.>
If you can give me some advice I would be most appreciative.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm and here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso_lituratus.htm >
Thanks,
<My Pleasure>
Paul
<Mike>
Naso Tang: Acclimation\Quarantine\Health\Need More Information 3/20/2009
Hi all!
<Well hello there!>
I have Naso Tang that has been in quarantine for 8 weeks (he had a bout of Amyloodinium {microscopic verification}).
<Kudos to you for quarantining/verifying a disease before treatment!>
After battling that I introduced him to my display. My quarantine tanks are usually pH~7.8 (tap water almost always consistent. Just easier and if I run into emergencies like I said almost always pH 7.8). When I'm ready to transfer fish to display I increase the pH in quarantine to 8.2 over 10 days.
<OK so far.>
Except, with this Naso. I just put him in the DT completely forgetting to slowly increase the pH of quarantine (only realizing after his release).
Tried to catch it but forget it in 200g full of LR.
<Hehehe, I know what you mean.>
A week later Naso was lethargic, not eating introduced foods but still scavenged LR algae. Couple days after was very lethargic (I figure all a result of no acclimation). The same night after noticing his inactivity I
saw a tiny hermit clinging to his pectoral fin and dining (my Naso is 7 inches). The Naso was trying to dump the hermit but couldn't. I grabbed a long stick hitting the crab while the Naso was trying to swim away (either from me or the crab).
<I'm thinking the long stick...>
Finally the hermit dropped. The hermit had a good dinner. So now the Naso has exposed white tissue, and I've since removed the hermit.
<Ouch!>
It's been 2 days since this incident and Naso just lays on his side and hides all day (I would to). So to my question. Do try to grab the Naso and put him back in quarantine? OR do I leave him as he seems already very stressed (no one else in the DT appears to bother him). I'm leaning towards the later.
<Agreed - leave him in place and observe.>
And if I leave him, is there any point I should catch him and put him quarantine?
<Signs of infection etc.>
I really don't' want to lose this guy, he's the show, Nasos are my favourite! My anxiety is through the roof.
Thanks a bunch
<Mike>
Re: Naso Tang: Acclimation\Quarantine\Health\Need More Information 3/20/2009
No visible signs of infection but this morning dead.
<Sorry to hear that.>
I suspect bacterial infection or some physiologic anomaly precipitated by lack of acclimation all magnified by injury and trauma.

I'll postmortem tonight but I don't think I'll see anything obvious.
<Still, not finding anything obvious still rules out environmental or pathogenic.>
Looks like only one solution; get over it with a weekend on the hills with my board and deep powder.
<Now there is an idea.>
I forgot I'm in Toronto. Sucks to be me...lesson learned...
<Do let me know if you find anything.>
<Mike>

Naso Tang needs your help !! -- 01/22/09 WWM Crew, <Kirk> I have had this Naso Tang for 2wks and notice these splotches on his side. <Stress coloration...> My two main questions are: 1. What is it?? 2. Is this something to be concerned with? <Something too challenging... too small a system, social incompatibility are the most common... And yes> I have blue face angel and a Kole eye tang that are doing well (added the same time as the Naso tang), only the Naso tang is showing signs on this splotches. The Naso tang is picking algae off the rock and sides of the tank. Eyes are clear and seems alert. <Good signs> I am feeding Arcti-Pods, Rod's Food (herbivore blend) and new life pellets. <Good foods...> It also is eating Red Algae sheets that I put on an algae clip (FWIW, all fish are eating from the algae clip). <Good> I will give you the perfunctory water parameters: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates all ZERO Mg is 1200 PO4 is ZERO Ca 425 pH 8.3 salinity 1.024 temp 77 Fish are housed in an established (2yrs this May 2009) 375 gallon tank. <Mmm, good sized system...> My main goal is to identify what the splotches are and to determine if ANY action or treatment is needed on my part. To see pics of the Tang, view my photos here: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3217403650/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3217403650/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3216548959/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3216548959/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3216385885/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3216385885/ thanks Kirk <Mmm... well... it could be that this specimen was just roughly handled (happens) on/during collection, processing from the wild (many Naso lituratus are "picked up" on the bottom at night while sleeping... have "hand prints" on them...) or that it is simply adjusting to its new surroundings... I would wait on doing anything overt here (not move or "treat" it, the system)... and this Naso will likely clear up in a few weeks. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso Tang needs your help !! Bob, <Kirk> So whatever the stress coloration the Naso has, is NOT contagious and will NOT be spread to other fish in the tank, correct? <That is correct... with a very high degree of confidence> This is my main concern. Thanks Kirk <Welcome my friend. BobF>

Re: Naso Tang needs your help !! 1/27/2009 Bob, <Kirk> Today, I spoke to the online vendor where I purchased the Naso tang. They viewed the photo and said the splotches were caused by a bacterial infection and could easily be treated with Maracyn II. <...> Do you agree with this diagnosis ?? <No> Should I be worried about the health of this tang? Thanks Kirk <Worried? No... worrying won't change the future... Concerned? Sure... particularly if this translates to further investigation, consideration and action (if necessary) on your part. IF you'll take the time to read re infectious marine fish disease (on WWM), you'll/you'd find that such occasions are not generally "treatable" per se... and the genus Naso in particular can't be easily moved/sequestered in small volumes. Please... read, don't write unless you have something novel to report or inquire re. B>

Naso Tang behaviour... hlth. 12/11/07 Hi Bob, <Chris> I have a Naso Tang - apprx 5" for 3 months now. Feeding him different algae formulas blood worms and Mysis shrimp soaked in vitamins and garlic. Occasionally gave him lettuce He was always fine and hungry --- 2 days ago he stopped moving around the tank (which he always did) and is sitting in the corner behind live rock. <A very bad sign> He does not eat any more and gets out only at night. He is getting skinnier. <Yikes> I have 155 gallon reef tank where he is the biggest fish (others are several clowns, 2 athias,3 fire fishes, 1 dragon goby,4 Chromis, 2 blood shrimp, Blue cheek trigger (very peaceful) <Maybe...> I have my own versions 1. I noticed that I have long worm in my aquarium (similar to tube worm) - could he harm fish? <Mmm, no> 2.Trigger is attacking Tang behind my back???(never noticed any tricks from him) <Possibly> 3. Something to do with water quality --- I had my nitrates in their 20 lately Best Regards Chris <I have another item to add... there is some good chance this fish has luminal problems... either a loss of useful organisms (like termites) or parasites there. I would treat the fish (perhaps in the main system in this case, circumstances) with a vermifuge and protozoacide (Prazi and Metronidazole). Please see WWM re their use. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang & Colony Polyps, hlth. and beh. 7/12/07 Hello! I have some concerns about my tank and I hope you can help. I have been monitoring my tank levels and adding the appropriate chemicals as needed, but my orange colony polyps still are not opening up. <Hmm... which chemicals are we talking about here? what exactly are you putting in your tank and how much?> I read that they only like little to no current movement around them and I placed them in a low circulation spot. Do you know why they might not be opening up? <Impossible to say without knowing much more about your tank. What are your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels? What's your pH? alkalinity? temp? salinity?> I also had my Naso Tang die today. <Bummer> I did not see any parasites on him at all and he seemed to be happy in the tank and was eating ok. Any suggestion on why he might have died? <Again, pretty impossible to say without knowing so much more about your water.> He was a juvenile and only about 3" long. When I bought him he did have some discoloration to him (white spots all around), but I was told that is because he was a juvenile. <or stress> I have a 150 gallon tank that is six feet long. Thanks for your help in advance! <Please do write back with many more details so that we might help you more. Best, Sara M.> Jenny Hugi

Blonde Naso Tang Tail 4/23/07 I have had a 3" blonde Naso in my tank for about a month, and he is wonderful, eating algae all the time gets along with the Tomato clown, and 2 cleaner shrimp. No Problems. Today when I got home I noticed a couple of white very small stringy spots on his tail. Almost like something just got caught on his tail. They are Not spots. He is acting fine. I just checked all parameters yesterday and all is good. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 2.5 ppm, PH 8.2, Alk normal, salinity 1.022, and temp 79.6. He is acting, breathing, and eating as usually, and doesn't seemed bothered. Do you have any ideas. Should the cleaner shrimp take care of it. <Will likely help... These spots may be "nothing" (a reaction series by the Naso lituratus) or could be crustacean or worm of some sort parasites...> They do jump aboard him every now and then. Not panicking yet but just wanted to see what you thought before it got out of hand. You guys are great Thank You Aaron

Naso Tang Death - 4/6/07 Alex (or whichever WetWebWizard is answering our query this evening): <It is me again. :-)> You have been a wonderful resource for us, and so we hope you can shed light on this perplexing question (although we suspect it's just "one of those things"). In late January we purchased a beautiful blond Naso tang, about four-five inches long. It took him about two weeks to get used to our Sailfin and Foxface (about the same size) but eventually he got along with everyone. He spent his days swimming back and forth across the front of the tank; back and forth, back and forth, never varying his routine. <This does not sound like a happy fish. This sounds like a fish who wants out.> He ate, he was friendly, no issues. We have a 120 reef tank, <Large by living room standards, but not large by Naso standards.> extra powerhead, good water movement. Anyway, to make a long story shorter, we did a regular water change on Monday (30 gallons) and on Tuesday evening we noticed that the Naso was just hanging out on the left side of the tank, not moving. When we checked the tank Wednesday morning, he was dead. Just like that. No real warning, no apparent sickness. <There are many accounts of sudden Naso death on WWM. My first search result: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nasosysfaqs.htm > We immediately checked all our chemistry, and the tank is perfect. Temp 78, pH 8.3, and big round zeros for ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, phosphates. <good. The only other thing that you can measure that has been blamed for some of these sudden deaths is oxygen level.> Salinity 1.022. <Could be higher.> Any thoughts? <He was clearly not happy with the confined space or tankmates. These are open-water fish that get to 18' very quickly. Possibly an oxygen drop after the water change.> We did have a hair algae problem a few weeks ago (and you helped us through the huge tank cleaning project). We expected some death from the major upheaval (and indeed, lost a yellow tang, a flasher wrasse, a sand goby and an algae blenny in the process). <Hopefully things are stabilizing for your tank now. Keep your stock low for a while, and that will help your algae to slow down. Take plenty of time and research any future fish additions thoroughly, now that you have found us. Shoot for less demanding, smaller, hardier species. Your Sailfin is really enough tang for this tank.> But the Naso seemed to come through it fine. Thanks in advance for your opinions... Michael and Dianne <We hope we can be of some assistance. Thanks, Alex>

Re: Naso Tangs. . . (more to fish health, knowing and the nature of the human experience) One more question if you don't mind. . . how will I know when it's time to move the Naso to a larger tank? Will he start acting unhappy? Signs of limited swimming, loss of appetite, etc.? <These behavioral changes are hard to discern, but yes, all the above> Also, off the current subject, I am just very frustrated and don't know where to turn. I love your website but frankly, I'm very new to this hobby (only about 9 months) and I don't know a lot about what I read. . .some of it is very confusing and hard to understand. So, where can I go to get some basic knowledge to help me understand and grow into learning this hobby? <Though it is supposedly shame-faced to do so, I will plug a worthwhile general (beginner-oriented) book on marine aquarium keeping of which I am the author: The Conscientious Marine Aquarist. Available from e-tailers, the large book-sellers, fish shops. Very worthwhile> Frustration also exists in the fact that there are so many conflicting opinions. For instance, last night I noticed a small spot on my maroon clown's fin that looked like fin rot. I went to your website and found basically conflicting opinions (in the chat room) regarding Melafix and Maracyn. These are the only two medicines that I know of at all. I decided to use Melafix (because it seemed to be a safer, more natural product and the fin rot is minimal) but then this morning searched the WetWebMedia and found where you say you don't recommend it so now I feel like I've done something horrible. <Mmm, not horrible... Understand the nature of our sites as mere extensions of related human experience... There are many (different) humans, hence opinions... And that "Aquariology" is not altogether a "science", but art and "voodoo" as well... Embrace and revel in these differences (really).> What should I have done for the maroon clown (have I hurt the other fish in the tank that are not showing signs of fin rot?) and where can I go to get GOOD, solid information on treatment of diseases? <There are books on the subject (see Ed Noga's name on the Google Search), but with some general understanding of what diseases are ("The Three Sets of Factors..."), and good practice at picking out proper species, good specimens, some simple dip/bath and quarantine procedures, decent nutrition, regular aquarium maintenance, you are unlikely to need to know much or anything about "disease"> I trust you, Mr. Fenner, from all of the things I've heard and the books that you've written you are one of the few that I would trust. I just wish you could give out your phone number! :) When it's 10:00 p.m. and you don't know what to do for your fish it's frustrating! Please help and give me some guidance if possible. I apologize for being so longwinded but I just am at my wit's end. I love my fish and want to take the best care of them but I can't find a solid guideline to help me. Is there a book that you've written that's kind of a catch all for everything? <Ah, yes. TCMA> Thanks for your help! I appreciate you so much. <Glad to help my friend. Try to "step back" and enjoy your experience, even the apparent frustration, un-knowing... all will become clearer with time, experience, study, reflection, you'll see. Bob Fenner>
Re: Naso Tangs. . . Thanks so much for your words of encouragement. And, no, it's not "shame-faced" to recommend your book -- I'm going to purchase it right now and am sure it will be a tremendous help! <Ahh, know you will enjoy, gain by the experience> In your opinion would you stop the Melafix treatment and just watch the maroon clown for a couple of days? Or, would it be ok to continue the treatment through? It's an herbal remedy so can it really hurt anything? Isn't fin rot rare in saltwater -- I thought it was mainly a fresh water disease so maybe I have misdiagnosed? <Lots of possibilities... "fin rot" as in fungal or bacterial involvement in marine systems is very rare as a "first order" involvement... these decomposing events are almost always a result of system "collapse", post-death...> None of her fin is missing it just looks a line as been drawn across her fin and from that line down (just a small portion) is brown and looks thin. She still uses it and it's not folded to her side or anything. I don't think any other fish are "picking" on her. . . she holds her own quite well and seems very happy (not hiding or anything). She also does something that I don't know if it's normal for clowns or not...she takes her tail and whips it around in the sand making a big sand storm (she only does this in the evening though) -- she just recently (a month or so) starting doing this. . . is this normal especially since there is no anemone in the tank for her? What is she doing? <Please read over the WWM site re Anemones and Clowns: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clwnfshanefaqs.htm > Thanks for letting me bother you again. . . you must really love this hobby to put up with ALL of our questions! :) Take care. <For love of the planet, our species, myself am glad to share. You will do the same. Bob Fenner>
Re: Naso Tangs. . . Hello again. . .one more quick question if you don't mind. I took your advice and decided to stop the Melafix treatment. However, Monday when I had administered the Melafix I had obviously turned off the skimmer. Last night I turned the skimmer back on and it went crazy. It pumped out constantly and never seemed to stop. After about two gallons I decided to turn it off. Should I use some carbon (ChemiPure) to get the Melafix out and leave the skimmer off for two or three days? <A good idea, yes> Would this be harmful to my fish? <No, more beneficial> I just administered one dose (10 teaspoons of the Melafix) so it should be out in a few days, right? <Not necessarily... the skimmer is/has removed quite a bit, the activated carbon will remove most all remaining> Also, regarding the vitamins. . . should I be giving them vitamins (VitaChem) as regular routine or only once in a while or when needed? <Yes, once a week to the water, as often as you'd like to their foods> Thank you so much for your help! Have a wonderful day!!!! By the way, bought your book and love it! :) Loving this hobby again thanks to you! Elizabeth <A pleasure my friend. Life to you. Bob Fenner>

Rapid Gill pumping.... Bob, or who-ever is kind enough to respond to my dilemma: <Anthony Calfo in your service> About a week ago I decided to add a small Blonde Naso Tang to my 90 gallon aquarium. <already sounds like an "I didn't quarantine my fish and now they have a disease" story...<wink>. Critical to QT my friend> He's around 6 inches in length. Today I noticed that his breathing seemed very irregular. The irregularity is just this; his gill pumping seems quite excessive. Earlier today I performed a small water change, around 10 gallons. I didn't think that this would cause any kind of trauma to the fish in the tank. <did the rapid gilling commence abruptly with the water change?> I do this on a weekly basis. After taking some readings I recorded a level of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 10 ppm nitrate, and a specific gravity of about 1.022. The ph level has been pretty constant at around 8.0-8.1. <pH is definitely low if that is a daytime reading (pH falls even lower at night) Target 8.3-8.6...but still it would not cause the rapid gilling> His behavior doesn't seem out of the ordinary, at least for what I have been able to notice from the last six days. He swims all over the tank, but doesn't seem to pace. He is eating quite a bit. <all good signs indeed> In fact it was after his last feeding that I noticed the increased gill pumping. <yes... usually a bit after a big feeding but relaxes shortly afterward (hours)> I tried to count how many pumps per minute occurred, but I couldn't keep up with him. It is well above 100 beats per minute by my count. <while respiration varies among fishes, 100 per second is fast enough to be concerned and to be on the look out for signs of parasitic infection or other pathogenic cause. Do review quarantine tank set up and procedure in preparedness of a medication treatment if necessary. You will almost never want to medicate the main display (many reasons... again, review FAQs in archives)> I haven't seen any change in his tank mate, a small Passer angel. <very good> Any ideas....advice? Thanks in advance, Michael Mariani Let's hope he is alive to hear what you have to say....... <continue with stable water quality, good feeding and water changes. You may try a slightly lower salinity to improve levels of dissolved oxygen if nothing else (.001-.002 daily drop until 1.018 SG). Please spend your next $100 on a QT setup instead of another fish <wink>... it saves money and lives. Anthony

Naso Tang Hello, Recently got a Naso Tang.. it has white spots on it.. person at LFS said it is because the tang is scared. Is that something that really happens when they're just stressed, or should I be worried? <Mmm... I would be concerned... the white spots... are they "raised" in appearance? Transitional, or are they on the fish all day? Any other fishes showing signs? Likely the beginning of an Ich infestation. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm going on to the links beyond as your interest, need leads you. Bob Fenner> Lisa H.

Strange Naso Symptoms (3/26/04) Just found your web site and found it extremely interesting regarding Nasos. I maintain aquariums for several businesses and have had a problem with Nasos. <Believe me, many do.> Seems after several months they get a series of pinprick spot on the sides mostly just below the top fin and behind the head. Looks like someone took a pin and gouged out a tiny spot. They tend to be dark in color. Also seem to have a few white protrusions (very small) here and there. No idea if they are related to the same problem. The first fish finally died after months of this "stuff" slowly spreading to cover a fairly large area. Treated with copper without any results. <Hopefully not in the display tanks.> Current fish has only 15 or 20 spots currently, eats well, acts normal and is in a 125 gallon aquarium. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Jon Bartnick <It's always hard to say without seeing. I'm wondering if this is HLLE. Do read up on it and look at some pix on WWM. The other option would seem to be some sort of parasite. If you have a fish die, it would be interesting to look at some lesions under a microscope to look for parasites. Check out the HLLE possibilities first. Hope this helps some. Steve Allen>

Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

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