Urgent Help re: Naso Tang    – 11/02/09
Hi! Mark from the Philippines here.
<BobF in sunny S. Cal.>
I've always been a fan of your site as it's been a really good reference for me. However, due to the urgency of the situation, I think I need more personalized help.
I have a 3 year old blonde Naso tang in my 180g reef that suddenly stopped eating today. What's weird is that he suddenly appears really really thin today. He's breathing rapidly and is staying put in a low flow area.
Yesterday he was his usual self, swimming everywhere, hogging all the food.
He looks really bad and I'm not sure if he'll make it to tomorrow.
<MOVE this fish Mark... Now!>
He looks perfectly normal, no wounds, etc. Just really really suddenly thin.
He's my favorite fish, very fond of people and follows everyone around the aquarium. I even hand feed him from time to time.
Recently, I've converted to an all softies reef and been stocking up on corals. The other day, I added a few Brittlestars, and he started nipping at one's legs. That's the only thing I've noticed him do differently.
<Something this fish either has eaten or the new organisms are releasing into the water is poisoning it... Again, it needs to go elsewhere, stat!>
I'm lightly stocked, have a blue tang, 2 clownfish, a royal gramma, and the Naso. All of them are around 3 years old so all of them are quite large.
All the other fish and corals are okay. Water parameters are okay.
Any ideas what it could be? And any medication, dips I can do?
Thanks!
<Move it, move it. Bob Fenner>

Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang – 11/02/09
Thanks for the quick response Bob
<I sensed the urgency>
It's already 12:30am in this part of the world. The lights just went out a couple of hours ago. Should I turn the lights back on and catch him now? He sleeps in a cave and I'm definite I won't be able to catch him with the lights off.
<I would remove this fish now>
Also, all the shops are closed, and I can't get any medication.
<No medication necessary>
That being said, what do I need to do once he's in the QT? Any specific medication?
Thanks again!
<None... just place this fish in a clean, large, established system. BobF>

Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang – 11/02/09
Hi Bob!
Sorry, just want to explain myself as it may sound odd that I know the urgency of the situation, but then suddenly hesitating regarding the transfer.
My main concern here is that waking him up after a few hours of sleep then chasing him around the tank might stress him out and cause more harm than good?
<Watch your hands, but remove this fish... w/o turning the lights on if you can. B>

Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang – 11/02/09
Hi Bob
Just finished moving the fish. When I turned on the lights he was resting on the sand almost motionless.... not a good sign.
<Actually Mark... this is what they do... at night, in the wild. Larger Nasos are collected during the night in just such a fashion. Not to worry>
He didn't put up a fight as I easily netted him on the 2nd try.
<Good>
He's now in a 20g tank, swimming around. Just turned the lights off. Hope he gets a good rest.
<... I fear I'm not being clear. This fish NEEDS to be put in another six foot, plus length system. NOT in a small body of water>
Still hoping for the best...
Thanks again,
Mark
<BobF>

Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang – 11/02/09
Actually Bob, right now I don't have many options. The 20g spare tank is the only place I can transfer him now.
I'll ask around fellow reefers who have large tanks tomorrow who can hold on to him and hopefully nurse him back to health.
I can't thank you enough for your help and speedy replies...
<Welcome. Sleep tight. B>
re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang
Got it! Thanks! I'll keep you posted!
<Real good. B>

Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang – 11/03/09
Our Blue Tang has stopped eating today as well. I'm trying my best to remove it from the tank. I feel really disheartened...
<I would remove all fish life from this system. ASAP>
From what I've read, I think it could be flukes. Symptoms include abrupt cessation of feeding, and the eyes do look a bit cloudy.
If they are indeed flukes, could they have been transferred to the tank by the new corals?
<Mmm, unlikely these are flukes... affecting so many species of fishes...
They tend to be... Well, read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmdisflukef.htm
BobF>

Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang   11/3/09
Hi Bob,
<Mark>
When I woke up today, the fish was gone...
<Ahhh>
Scary how fast it deteriorated...
Thanks again,
Mark
<BobF>

Black mark on Naso tang? Hello crew! <Hi there Terry> I have a Naso tang which has a mark on his side which looks like a permanent marker, <Good description> I know it is not Paravortex, and none of my other fish have any spots, tank pars are normal, it is a 150 FOWLR. I was wondering if it may be from being stung by the Foxface? <Mmm, not likely this sort of mark...> He seems normal, and eating well but if this is a disease I would like to get a jump start on it, this is the best pic. I could get. Thanks in advance, Terry <Have seen these sort of blems many times... Are bruises of sorts... usually clear themselves up over weeks to month's time. No "treatment" suggested other than good care. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Blonde Naso, hlth., sel.    7/10/09
I've had my Naso for one week. She was beautiful. I have a 150 gallon tank and have a Snowflake Eel, Banana Wrasse, Fox Face, and 4 Damsels. My husband forgot to turn the lights on yesterday and when I got home, she was dead laying on the sand and had a marble sized bulge coming from her stomach. Do you know what this could be?
<This soon from acquisition... Most likely damage from "needling" from collection (a practice to "let out" air for more rapid ascent... rather than waiting, hauling up collection buckets...) Had your store had this animal on hand for a period of time before your acquisition? Better to wait, a good week... Bob Fenner>
Thank you!
Alison Aquino-Sanchez

Blonde Naso Tang - ill/mouth  7/5/09 Good evening & Happy 4th of July, <Now the morrow of the 6th... glad I stayed home with the dogs> I just upgraded my tank to a 150 gallon Elos XL120 tank... plenty of live rock and coral. I bought a Blonde Naso Tang... he had only been at the LFS for 24hr when I bought him. <Mmm... two sides to an/the argument whether to leave such fishes/species longer or no> It's been 36hr since I got him home, and he hides under a rock, <Bad behavior> is breathing quickly and today has developed a white fungus-like material around his mouth. <I see this in your pic> I've searched Google and your site for help... any advice would be much appreciated. I've also included a photo. Thanks, Zach <Either has been "running" (more like swimming) into rock, the aquarium sides... or something is brutalizing it in your system... We could/might bandy back and forth re what else is in your system, water quality, history... but instead; read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/nasoldis.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Blonde Naso Tang - ill/mouth  - 7/6/09 Hey Bob, <Zach> Thanks so much for your quick response. <Certainly welcome> The water parameters are all in great shape. The Blonde Naso is one of the first fish I added to the tank. All of the other fish are doing great and nobody has been terrorizing him at all. Mostly I just have peaceful wrasses in with him. Once I added him to the tank he instantly hid behind a rock and has pretty much stayed back there. <Mmm, frightened perhaps> I called the LFS and they were very defensive about the condition of the fish, saying the white stuff wasn't around his mouth when they sold him to me. <Likely not, but... why be defensive?> But, it developed almost instantly and they had only had him 24 hours. Right now I'm just interested in saving this poor fish as he hasn't eaten in 3 days and doesn't look well. I've been dosing all food with garlic hoping this might help his appetite. Can you think of any treatments I should try? Maybe Prazipro? Thanks again! -Zach <I would NOT treat this fish with "medicine/s"... What temperature is the water? What nitrogenous waste levels present? What re dissolved oxygen and ways to increase it? Do you have another established system of size you could move this fish to? I will stand by my previous speculation and say it likely "bumped" into something/s... and the "owees" on its face are resultant, leading to the poor behavior (is the tank area very dark at night?)... BobF> Re: Blonde Naso Tang - ill/mouth  - 7/7/09 Wow, 2 responses from you. Wonderful! And thank you. <Welcome> Unfortunately my old tank is no longer around to transfer the Blond Naso to. All of the rock in my new tank has been established for years and I've yet to lose a fish (I bet you hear that all the time. hah). Temperature is a solid 78-79 degrees. Nitrates are <5. The ORP is usually between 275-300. <A bit low, but fine> The tank is dark at night--I don't have a moonlight. <Mmm, is it "so" dark... from there being no other light in the surrounding outside room that the fishes might be inclined to dash into the rock? The markings on the face of the fish look so much like damage from such, or a bristle worm> Seems like your bump theory is a good one. I've never really considered the moonlight anything but a way to watch the fish at night--so it's interesting (and obvious) to think it could actually help them see as well. Duh. I definitely won't treat the tang with any medicines per your advice. Looks like I'll just have to wait it out, huh? I bought the fish on Friday and it's now Monday night and he still isn't eating. <Try some brown algal food, perhaps Spectrum pellets> Luckily he looks a bit chubby, so hopefully he can hold out a bit longer. I bought him and 2 other tangs at once to introduce them together. <Oh!? What other species?> I know tangs generally are less aggressive with each other when introduced that way. If this Blond Naso doesn't make it, would it be a bad idea to introduce a new one immediately after in hopes of limiting the territorial stuff Tangs do? <Not likely a good idea; unless this system were much larger... Hundreds of gallons> Thanks x1,000,000 -Zach <Welcome in kind. BobF> Re: Blonde Naso Tang - ill/mouth  7/8/09 Yes, the tank is so dark that there really isn't any other light seeping in. My old tank has a moonlight, but never really thought about adding one to this new setup. <I would at least have "some" light outside the tank on during the time/s when the lights are all out on the inside> The other tangs I added with him were a Powder Blue and a Yellow Tang. All were introduced together and I've yet to see any hostility between any of them. <Not always obvious...> I've been putting seaweed in dipped in garlic and the other two fish are eating it like crazy. Unfortunately the Naso doesn't seem interested in the slightest. Thanks again! You're a life saver. <Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/nasolfdg.htm and the linked files above. BobF>

Prazipro - Naso health/treatment -05/27/09 Mr. Fenner, I ordered some Prazipro this morning. I thank you for your help and it feels good to finally have the answers after all of my research. However I now have another problem. My newest fish is about a 5" Naso tang. When he arrived he had a white spot on him. I took this spot as a simple shipping stress, and hoped it would go away with proper feeding and water quality, however it has spread. The spots are not ich, and I do not see any texture to them. They are simply spots of different shapes and sizes. These were the pictures I sent to you earlier for identification. I am sorry for the less than perfect quality. I am a college student, and do not have a camera other than my phone. If you can help me, or point me as to some possibilities of what this is and treatment that would be safe to use with the Prazipro, it would be very helpful. Thank you for your time, and I am sorry for the confusing pictures without words, my previous e-mail somehow disappeared. <I am sorry, but Bob is out of the country with sporadic poor net access. Your pics did not come through with this or your previous email, if there was an email with pics it did not get matched up. Can you send them along again? Thanks, Scott V.> Re: I thought fish ate worms not vice-versa! 5/28/2009 Bob, <Terry> Thank you for the help. I ordered some Prazipro this morning. It feels good to finally know the correct treatment after so much research.  However, lo and behold it seems my newest fish, a Naso tang also has another problem. When I received him be had one of these spots, now several. I am going to send a picture I took with my phone. I hope it is good enough quality. If you can identify it. I would like to know how to treat it along with the Prazipro I will be administering. He is eating very little, but he is eating. These spots don't appear to have any texture, just simply various sizes and shapes that appear to just be bleached out. Any help is greatly appreciated. <Mmm, can't tell what this is but the exposure to the Prazipro won't hurt this fish... may help cure it. BobF>

High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Hello,
<Hello Dee.>
I have recently began lowering my very high nitrate levels, I was dangerously overfeeding my tank. My Naso's skin has gotten blotchy, kind of looks like it's orange-peeled in texture along with dark grey small patches. Her eyes & fins are all clear. Eats great, swims and acts the same. If this is stress markings from the high nitrates, what's a ballpark figure on how long before it clears up?
<Depends on how long before your "high" nitrate levels drop to a safe range.  It has been 5 days since these markings first appeared. I have done large water changes in my 300 gallon tank. Employed some activated carbon, Seachem's De-nitrate in filter bags in the sump, next to the 40 gallon 'fuge. I will add some Chaetomorpha to refugium tomorrow to help lower the nitrates even more.
<A start.>
I feed less, water is much clearer now. I have removed the filter sock,
<I'm not a fan of filter socks as they trap debris in the micron size and the water is constantly flowing through this and creating high nutrient levels.>
and employed Poly-Filter in the slot of the second chamber. I am too afraid to post the nitrate numbers, your jaw would
hit the floor.
<Would have been better if you did post the numbers, gives us a realistic idea of how high the levels really are.>
I am very upset, I should have tested weekly, I did not. My 8" Naso is my special fish.  No other inhabitants' skin is affected, just hers. Can you please help my nerves with this one? With consistent 15% water changes every other day for a week, then back to my regular regiment of 10% a week, can I hope to see her skin condition improve in time?
<Weekly water changes will help, but the use of a quality protein skimmer will certainly speed up the process and further prevent nitrates from rising provided an efficient skimmer, and one sized for your tank is used.  You mention nothing of using one so I'm assuming you're not using one.>
I have read through the FAQ's, and have seen the above remedies help in lowering nitrates.
<In your case, you would be better off using Chemi-Pure, a high grade activated carbon combined with scavenging resins. In your size tank, we would be looking at using six units of the product and to be effective, the water needs to pass through the product, not around it. Seriously, do consider purchasing a protein skimmer, will create much better water quality for
your animals.  Have you read here and related articles?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm>
Sadly, Dee.
<And I James, not being in Cozumel with Bob and Scott.  Cheers. James (Salty Dog)>

Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Fantastic feedback, thank you James. I have learned so much from your responses to others.
<You're welcome.>
Okay, here's the nitrate numbers. It was at 200 last Sunday, yes, you read that right.
<Yikes, what kind of test kit are you using that will read that high? Is your kit measuring total nitrogen or NO3?>
After one water change, and added filter media, it went down to 80.
<A big improvement.>
The next day, another water change, it went down to 50, where it has remained for the past 3 days, even with another water change.
<You are at a point now where you are importing more nutrients than the skimmer/system can export.>
So sorry, I neglected to mention that I am running a ASM G1 skimmer, and my LFS said I need more like a G3 instead for my sized system. He suggested I run the skimmer "WET" .....he came over and raised the tube with the black sponge around it higher, I now have less foam. Do you agree that running it wet will help?
<I like to set up skimmers so the skimmate is on the dark side. I'm thinking the skimmate your skimmer is producing now is
tinted more like tea. Your dealer is correct, the G1 will not do it, and either will the G3 which is rated for 250 gallons max.
If you like this brand of skimmer, go with the G4 which is rated for up to 350 gallons.>
If so, how long until I push the tube back down below the neck of the skimmer?
<Let it run awhile, see what color and amount of skimmate you get out of the tank in a day or two. If it is light in color, push the tube down about 1/2", then evaluate again. When you get to a point where the skimmate isn't any darker, then that is where I'd leave it.>
I have seen that Chemi-Pure and am on my way out to purchase it right now.  I have your recommended dosage for my sized system, and will get that plus more. How often should I change it out?
<Well, they say every six months, but I've never found that to be true.  With your present nutrient level, I'm thinking about one month and with the next change, likely two months. It is important to have some type of mechanical filter ahead of the Chemi Pure to increase it's useful life.>
Salty Dog, thank you just isn't enough. This issue has caused daily nosebleeds, I need help, and was just too afraid to put the numbers here.
<We are here to help you Dee, not criticize you. We all have been down that road before and have learned from our mistakes and/or lack of knowledge.>
I have also read that adding a Mangrove plant in the 'fuge will help, as well. I am searching for one.
<Put your money toward a skimmer that will handle your tank, will do much more good than the mangrove will at this stage.>
The Naso began with black blotches all over, face, gills, body, etc....I thought it was Black Spot, but tested my water, saw the nitrate numbers and quickly realized it was probably stress markings. All of the blotching has gone away now with the exception of her back and sides. Face, gills are all smooth and grey again, like normal. Yes, that filter sock was packed with
debris/uneaten food. Thank you so much.
<Yes, a double edge sword here.>
I await your response re: the duration of running the skimmer wet, the Naso's approx. recovery time,
<I couldn't begin to estimate recovery time, too many variables. Most importantly, it is better to feed more often with smaller portions per feeding than to put out the grand buffet a couple of times a day.>
and the frequency of changing out the Chemi-Pure. You are my lifeline right now. Please help. I have seen some of the articles in the link you provided, but not all. I will read through once I return with the Chemi-Pure.
<Great. What you need most right now is patience, this didn't happen overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight.
Thank you.
<You're welcome, and you will get through this. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
James, is the Chemi Pure product you recommend by Boyd's?
<Yes.>
That is the only brand I've seen with this name on it. There are two versions, a regular one, and one that's labeled "elite", which removes phosphates and silicates as well as what the regular one removes. Which do you recommend?
<In your situation, the standard Chemi-Pure will do more for you right now than the Elite, more carbon and resins will be present to better absorb excess nutrients. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/27/09
Salty Dog,
<Dee>
what a lifesaver you are. I hate to hog up so much of your precious time, but please walk me through this like I'm 5 years old, I will not be offended. I will purchase a mechanical filter tomorrow. Honestly, what is it? What kind, brand, size do you recommend? Where do I put it?
<Dee, you are scaring me now, you do not know what a mechanical filter is? A mechanical filter is any filter that can trap debris, uneaten food etc. Your filter sock can be identified as a mechanical filter but would not work in this application.>
I will put it ahead of the Chemi-Pure as you suggested, but please tell me where to put the mechanical filter as well as the media bags. Do I use the carbon along with the Chemi-Pure?
<Not necessary to use carbon with Chemi-Pure, it contains carbon.>
I have a 40 gallon refugium, separated into 3 sections. First section, water from the main tank pours down into it. The skimmer is there. That is where I've placed the bags of carbon and SeaChem's De-nitrate.
<For now, remove the bags of carbon and place the Chemi-Pure bags in their place. I'd also like you to send a couple pics of your sump. We may be able to devise a way of using the Chemi-Pure more effectively without you having to purchase a filter.>
The second section is where the sand, live rocks, algae plants and sponge are growing.
<Good, a refugium is incorporated here.>
Third section, 2 return pumps, nothing else. I paid the local guy in my area thousands of dollars for this set up. He brought everything out, I never questioned the size, brands, anything, just trusted he'd keep his word and give me top of the line everything, in sizes appropriate for my system. Two years later, I am learning that one thing after another is too small and inadequate for my tank.
<Is the exact reason you need to educate yourself more, don't assume or trust everyone's suggestion(s). I would think that after two years you would be a little further down the road.>
So this skimmer <ASM G-1> is what was installed on it,
<Don't understand why your LFS would install an undersize skimmer on your tank. I'd be a little skeptical with him.>
I have no preference for the brand, I will replace with whatever you recommend, please.. Yes, the skimmer had light colored liquid in it, not dark as usual. I pushed it back down. Please explain what that does, moving that tube up and down.
<Basically, the higher the water level in the skimmer, the lighter the skimmate. You "pushed it back down", why not follow my suggestion in the previous email? Don't go from one extreme to the other. Read again and read the instructions that came with the skimmer.>
You said with my 3 water changes I am now importing more nutrients than I am exporting.
<No, I did not say that, go back and read again. I said you are at a point where the skimmer cannot export the nutrients at the same rate they are being imported, simply said, the skimmer is too small for your tank.>
I should now then go back to my weekly water changes, rather than every other day?
<Yes, do 10% weekly, right now you are wasting your money with every other day changes. You need export help by way of a skimmer sized for your tank.  Changing water helps by dilution but can get expensive in the long run, and is time consuming as you well know.>
<I should have asked this earlier before this turned into a saga, but how many fish, and their approximate sizes do you have in this tank?>
I don't understand. I use 2 different test kits, both strips, and both are the 5 in 1 types, measuring pH, hardness alkalinity, nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia. One is by Jungle. It measures nitrate is quantities of 0, 20, 40, 80, 160, 200 ppm. I Googled it, there is no specific mention of it measuring total nitrogen or just NO3. So, I'm not sure. I also use a test strip kit by Mardel, same 5 in 1 style. This one specifically says it is measuring NO3 ppm at levels of 0, 20, 40, 80 and 200.
<Well, that's some relief, a kit measuring N-NO3 would have to be multiplied by 4.4 to get the NO3 (nitrate ion) level. I'd do away with these 5 in 1 strips and get a kit dedicated to measuring NO3 only. Aquarium Systems, Salifert and a few other companies have inexpensive nitrate kits that will be easier to read than the strips. Better yet, get kits that are dedicated to measuring an individual water parameter. My personal preference are the Salifert Kits.>
I am terrified here.
<You are scaring me also.>
Thank you for the reminder that you all are here to help us, and that this did not happen overnight, nor will it straighten out overnight. Indeed, I was laying out the buffet 3-4 times a day. That is under control now. Please advise.
<Right now, follow the above suggestions and do send photos of the sump and other items I've asked you for above. It would be beneficial to me for you to send a photo of the tank, I'd like to see what I'm dealing with. Also, measure the length and width of the skimmer section in the sump. I cannot recommend a skimmer without knowing your available space. Skimmers vary in footprint dimensions and we want to make sure we get one that will fit in the area provided. I will then link you to a LFS/etailer than can provide you with your needs and save you some money to boot. Where are you located. I also feel that you need to learn/read more about this hobby.  Here is a link to our marine index which will lead you to most any topic dealing with marine aquariums. Do spend some time reading/learning here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/marsetupindex1.htm
When replying, do not break up the entire thread as you have here, always "reply to". Doing so prevents me from going back to all the previous emails if I need to.?
James (Salty Dog)>
Thankfully, Dee.

High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Fantastic feedback, thank you James. I have learned so much from your responses to others.
<You're welcome.>
Okay, here's the nitrate numbers. It was at 200 last Sunday, yes, you read that right.
<Yikes, what kind of test kit are you using that will read that high? Is your kit measuring total nitrogen or NO3?>
After one water change, and added filter media, it went down to 80.
<A big improvement.>
The next day, another water change, it went down to 50, where it has remained for the past 3 days, even with another water change.
<You are at a point now where you are importing more nutrients than the skimmer/system can export.>
So sorry, I neglected to mention that I am running a ASM G1 skimmer, and my LFS said I need more like a G3 instead for my sized system. He suggested I run the skimmer "WET" .....he came over and raised the tube with the black sponge around it higher, I now have less foam. Do you agree that running it wet will help?
<I like to set up skimmers so the skimmate is on the dark side. I'm thinking the skimmate your skimmer is producing now is
tinted more like tea. Your dealer is correct, the G1 will not do it, and either will the G3 which is rated for 250 gallons max.
If you like this brand of skimmer, go with the G4 which is rated for up to 350 gallons.>
If so, how long until I push the tube back down below the neck of the skimmer?
<Let it run awhile, see what color and amount of skimmate you get out of the tank in a day or two. If it is light in color, push the tube down about 1/2", then evaluate again. When you get to a point where the skimmate isn't any darker, then that is where I'd leave it.>
I have seen that Chemi-Pure and am on my way out to purchase it right now.  I have your recommended dosage for my sized system, and will get that plus more. How often should I change it out?
<Well, they say every six months, but I've never found that to be true.  With your present nutrient level, I'm thinking about one month and with the next change, likely two months. It is important to have some type of mechanical filter ahead of the Chemi Pure to increase it's useful life.>
Salty Dog, thank you just isn't enough. This issue has caused daily nosebleeds, I need help, and was just too afraid to put the numbers here.
<We are here to help you Dee, not criticize you. We all have been down that road before and have learned from our mistakes and/or lack of knowledge.>
I have also read that adding a Mangrove plant in the 'fuge will help, as well. I am searching for one.
<Put your money toward a skimmer that will handle your tank, will do much more good than the mangrove will at this stage.>
The Naso began with black blotches all over, face, gills, body, etc....I thought it was Black Spot, but tested my water, saw the nitrate numbers and quickly realized it was probably stress markings. All of the blotching has gone away now with the exception of her back and sides. Face, gills are all smooth and grey again, like normal. Yes, that filter sock was packed with
debris/uneaten food. Thank you so much.
<Yes, a double edge sword here.>
I await your response re: the duration of running the skimmer wet, the Naso's approx. recovery time,
<I couldn't begin to estimate recovery time, too many variables. Most importantly, it is better to feed more often with smaller portions per feeding than to put out the grand buffet a couple of times a day.>
and the frequency of changing out the Chemi-Pure. You are my lifeline right now. Please help. I have seen some of the articles in the link you provided, but not all. I will read through once I return with the Chemi-Pure.
<Great. What you need most right now is patience, this didn't happen overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight.
Thank you.
<You're welcome, and you will get through this. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/28/09 Greetings Salty Dog. <Hello Dee> I have re-read your instructions regarding that skimmer tube, and saw my mistake in reading them. My sincerest apologies. <No problem.> I returned it to its upright position, pushed it back down 1/2" as you told me, and will watch for color of skimmate for the next 2 days. Attached are 4 images of my set up. My Naso's blotchy skin, full tank view, close up of skimmer, and close up of sump. I live in Victorville, California. I am on my way out to get the Salifert test kits, I have seen them. I agree with you 200%. I should have asked more, learned more upfront. I had been talking with this local LFS for 2 yrs. prior to set up. He assured me he would install the best needed for my system, and teach me along the way. He installed all of this, stiffed me on everything except the water. We discussed my lack of knowledge, I begged him not to just install it and leave, he said he wouldn't. But once he got paid, he began failing to show up for meetings/maintenance/water changes/questions, voicemail stays on, haven't heard from him since. Found a different shop, that person has been maintaining this tank for a year. I called my self learning while he was doing it, obviously not nearly enough. My fault. I took over water changes just 5 months ago. Reading Bob's book, the FAQ's here, visiting lots of shops within 100 mile radius, asking, absorbing as fast and much as possible. I am tap dancing as fast as I can, I promise. With all of my outings, I have since learned he does this to everyone. Literally at least a half a dozen people in different areas has told me the same. He has one pay upfront, he brings out the smallest equipment, pockets the rest. Now I know. You are totally right. Thank you for your help. I purchased some Poly Filter after I responded to you. I indeed remembered what a mechanical filter was, please forgive my panicked responses. I am making more work for you. I understand your explanation, my skimmer is too small for this tank. Thanks so much. I got it. I have 6 Yellow Tail Damsels, 1 Raccoon Butterfly, 1 Pearlscale Butterfly, 1 Naso Tang, 1 Majestic Angel, 1 Coral Beauty, 1 Bi-Color Dwarf Angel, 1 Banggai Cardinal, crabs, snails, 3 urchins. That's it. My sump dimensions where the skimmer is: 14" deep (from back wall to front), 12" wide (side to side), 35" tall, headroom. My Butterflies and Naso are the ones skipping around the tank, twitching of sorts. Would a larger skimmer add more dissolved oxygen to the tank, helping this behavior? <As far as the oxygen goes, yes, you would be processing more gallons per hour. As for the twitching, not a good sign, is possible the mentioned fish may have a parasitical disease and would be a good idea for your local man to come have a look and soon. Do any of the "twitching" fish have very small white spots on them? Would be comparable to grains of salt. Do read/learn here about this. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm Another question I have is what type of diet are these fish on, what are you feeding them?  A healthy diet can go a long way in disease prevention.  As for the nitrate level, your tank photo isn't indicative of a tank with the high nitrate levels that you report from the 5 in 1 strip results.  I'll be very interested in your Salifert nitrate reading. On to the skimmer. Since you are already familiar with the ASM's operation, I suggest you get the ASM G4, will not be another learning curve thrown at you. May want to order this item from Marine Depot, located in Garden Grove, California, not very far from you and Bob Fenner for that matter. Look here. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~ASM_G_4_Protein_Skimmer_w__S edra_5000_Pump_Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Protein_Skimmers_In_Sump_Skimmers _Venturi_Over_250_Gallons~vendor~All_Seas_Marine_(ASM)~SearchStr~~action~vie w~idProduct~AG1191~idCategory~FIPSISVSOT.html As to your present skimmer, and looking at the photo, you have a good accumulation of skimmate slime on the top neck of the main body. Any slime like this needs to be removed on a minimum weekly basis along with cleaning the collection cup/riser tube of same. Allowing this to build up greatly reduces the skimmer's efficiency.> Peace be to you, again my apologies for all. <Not a problem. James (Salty Dog)> Dee.

Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/28/09 G'Day to you, thank you for your input/help. <You're welcome.> I purchased the ASM G3 yesterday, and installed it. Thanks for doing some homework on where to purchase. The better sized G4 for my system, will not fit in my sump. <With a moderate fish load, the G3 should be fine.> No, none of the twitching fish have any white spots on them. No ich signs.  I lost a damsel and my Pearlscale Butterfly last night. Before succumbing, he had a fixed gaze in his eyes. His color had turned to brown in some areas, mainly his face. <The Pearlscale Butterflyfish are hardy as far as butterflyfish go, but still not an easy fish to keep.  My Naso and Majestic have the same look in their eyes, but Majestic is swimming/eating/looking fine, Naso is still blotchy and twitching.  Could this be chloramine poisoning from the tap? <Depends on the level of the chloramine. Butterflyfish demand pristine water quality and if your nitrates were indeed 200ppm+, then this will have a negative effect on the fish.> I have adjusted the 4 power heads in each top corner downward and outward a bit for more oxygen in the water, they were 90% upwards, producing more surface aeration. Now it is about 20% surface aeration. <Doing what you did just decreased the oxygen saturation, the surface needs to be agitated to allow gas/air exchange.> I am testing with my Salifert N03 kit today, will shoot you the results later. <Good.> The only shop around here who carries it won't get it in until this afternoon, so I'll be driving 50 miles to get this test kit. I wanted to write you back ASAP to try and prevent more fish losses.  Chlorine? If I add in some NovAqua to eliminate chlorine/ammonia, won't that make the skimmer go overboard? <Yes, will likely have to be shut off.> What can I safely add to eliminate the chloramines then? <Aerating your top off water for 24 hours will eliminate the chloramine.  Many folks just keep a Rubbermaid tub with aerated fresh water for top offs. Another route to go is by using an RO water purification system.> Ammonia readings are zero, nitrite is at zero also. What, the do you think is poisoning them? <Don't know, but water quality should be your first goal now. Could be that the butterflyfish was caught by cyanide and this eventually kills the fish. Hard to believe you lost a damsel, they are almost bullet proof.  Have you had him long?> The 5 in 1 test strip still reads the nitrate at 50, that is a stressor. So it is either the chloramine or the nitrate killing them? <How did you arrive at having chloramine present in your water, did you test?> So many of these products are discussed here in other sections, I have seen/read dozens. Which of them do you prefer to eliminate the chloramines? <Aeration, doesn't make sense to add a product and then have no protein skimming.> I feed them New Life Spectrum pellets, soft Spirulina pellets, Nori sheets soaked in Selcon & Boyd's Vita Chem alternately, frozen P.E.mysis, Marine Cuisine, krill, squid, H2O Life Formula 1, all also soaked in the above mentioned vitamins. I mix up the choices 2x a day. <Sounds good. Were all fish eating the New Life Pellets? It is a very nutritious food, use it myself.> Now you really have my attention with your observance of my tank photo. I am actually encouraged by your feedback. What does a high nitrate laden tank look like compared to mine? How can you tell just by looking at my tank photo? <What I expected to see was some Cyanobacteria growth and nuisance algae.  Your tank looks reasonably clean of such.> I see the goop in the neck of my old G1 skimmer now that you point that out, I'll be sure and keep the new one clean, along with the riser tube. <Yes, a cleaning of at least once weekly.> Excellent support here, I'll send results soon Thanks so much. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/30/09 Hello James, (Salty Dog), <Hello Dee, sorry for the delay, been busy this weekend.> I have performed the Salifert test for N03, it is reading the bright magenta color at 100. <Ouch.> Thank you for this specific test recommendation, I will continue using all of their test kits for each element. I moved all 4 of the power heads back up towards the surface, as you suggested. I hooked the small skimmer back up to help move out the build up until this new one begins skimming green stuff. <You're thinking.> I cleaned out the old one really good before using. I am now running both skimmers in sump. I now have 3 spots of Cyano on the rocks, and 4 small patches of bright green algae on the glass now. <During the next water change, siphon the Cyano off, do not brush off, will just be spreading it.> More skimming, continued water changes, better water circulation, those algaes should clear up soon? <Should.> I will be purchasing a 60 gallon RO unit Tuesday for my water changes.  I've actually had my Pearlscale Butterfly and damsels for 2 years now, always perfect health, they were my first fish.  So no possibility of cyanide for him in this case. <Nope.> My damsel did not die after all. He is blotchy like the rest of them, fins fraying, he was just lying on the sand in shock, he is up and around now. I'm doing a 10% water change in moments.  No, I did not test for chloramines, I was assuming, since my nitrites and ammonia are at zero, besides the nitrate, I figured that would be the only other toxic present. <Likely.> But now I see that it is not the high concentration of nitrate that is weakening them, it is the stress of living in the toxic levels of nitrate. <Yes, is not good.> You convinced me, no chemicals. Good, days-long aeration is best, thanks so much.  The Majestic, Coral Beauty, Bi-Color, Pearlscale and Raccoon all love NLS pellets, but my Naso may pick them up every now and then. She is a Nori and P.E. Mysis fan instead. <OK.> Thank you for your patience. What say you to 2 skimmers running to skim as much as possible until the bigger one takes off and another water change? <Yes, run both skimmers and I'd do 10% changes every week until the nitrate level gets down around 20ppm> The Raccoon is darting all over, but the Majestic, Naso, 2 pygmies are swimming fine, just blotchy skin. <Question for you...When doing water changes do you use a gravel cleaner type siphon? If not, do get one. It will allow you to churn the substrate and suck out plenty of nastys. If this has never been done, you likely have a small hydrogen sulphide factory in the substrate, another negative for your fish. You won't believe the color of the water in your dump bucket when you're doing this. Obviously you won't be able to vacuum the entire substrate in one water change so it is best to start at one end then identify where you stopped. On the next water change, continue and move on. It is also a good idea to do this with every future water change with your type of system.> Waiting for your feedback, and thankful for your time. <Welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Dee. Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health/Now Treating Cloudy Eyes 3/30/09 Hello James, thanks dearly for your attention. <Welcome.><<And Dee, James has asked me to chime in as well. BobF>> Yes, I do use a siphon at the end of my hose for water changes, and always do a 2 ft. long area of top sand siphoning. Salty Dog, I have been reading the FAQ's on cloudy eye all morning. My Naso now has it, the Raccoon Butterfly still does, as well. My 10 gal QT will not hold my Naso, nor can I catch the Raccoon for QT without stressing him and the others out even more. <<It may well be best to try and discern the net/root cause of the problem in the main tank... and leave your fishes there>> And the Bi-Color pygmy looks to be in the beginning stages of it.  Just this time, can I medicate the tank with Maracyn 2? Removing all carbon/Chemi-Pure? <<RMF would not use an antibiotic here. The real problem is little doubt environmental... I would add some pads of PolyFilter to your carbon use>> The original skimmer is doing a great job of skimming lots of dark green like it used to.  The new one is still filled with just clear water. I have read Bob's instructions on how to make a big QT using a Rubbermaid, aeration and a heater, but even if I were to catch the Raccoon, Bi-Color and Naso to treat for cloudy eye, my Banggai, Majestic Angel and Coral Beauty may come down with the same, so under these circumstances, do you recommend I treat the entire tank for cloudy eye? <I'll hook up with Bob since disease treatment is not my forte. I will see what he recommends for treating a large tank.> All of this Chemi-Pure, water changes (used store bought drinking water for the last one, no time to let tap sit), is not helping these nitrates get past this reading. I won't bother you with this much longer, I just need your input on these 2 things, the cloudy eye treatment, and reducing nitrates faster. <I went through the nitrate problem with you already. Outside of what you are doing, there isn't a way to speed it up outside of costly massive (50%) water changes which you likely do not have the facilities to do anyway.  Remember, it didn't happen overnight and it's not going to go away overnight.> You have been a real coach, thank you. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Dee. <<Dee, you must need address the water quality... including the massive water change possibility James alludes to. RMF>> Re: High nitrate's effects on Naso's skin? Naso Tang/Health/And Now Cloudy Eye Treatment 3/30/09 Greetings James (Salty Dog). <Hello Dee.> I have an idea I want to run by you. What do you think about me doing a 150 gallon water change? These 30 gallon ones don't seem to be working. <I brought this up in a previous email but didn't know whether you had the facilities to accomplish this. To be effective, the entire 150 gallons would need to be changed in one session.> Changing out half seems drastic and refreshing for them. This is all I can think of now to do to get these nitrates and stress down quickly. Will that be too diluted?  Take out too much at once? <You must be sure the pH, temperature, and salinity are the same as the display tank. I don't understand what you mean by "diluted".> Even if it stressful, I think they'd get over that easier than living in these high nitrates. <Will not be stressful if done correctly as above.> One of the damsels is getting a large red infection on his forehead. The environment is really bad. I plugged up a larger pump for one of the return hoses 2 weeks ago. When I did, tons of uneaten food/poo shot right back into the tank from 3-4 weeks of an non operating return pump. <Seems like you are always encountering additional problems. In a tank your size, you should be looking at a total flow rate of at least 3000gph, this will keep waste stirred up and find it's way to the mechanical filter.  What is your total flow rate including return pump and powerheads?> Anthony at WetWeb told someone that nothing good happens fast in an aquarium. I agree in this case. <In full agreement with Antoine.> I just can't fix this fast enough. It took 3 hours for all of it to clear up. The damage was done by then. That, plus my constant overfeeding is when all of this nitrate/toxin issue began. So, half a water change, 150 gallons, what do you think to help lower these nitrates now? <If you have the facilities to do this, yes, most definitely. Where did all the uneaten food/poo end up that was stirred up, removed from the tank I hope.> My Salifert test for N03 today is still reading at 100. Am at a loss on the next action here. Thank you dearly for your time and attention. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Dee. Re: Naso Tang/Health/And Now Cloudy Eye Treatment 3/31/09 Hello again, this will indeed be my last message. <OK> I have learned much from you. Thank you for your compassion and patience. <You're welcome.> Yes, I am encountering new problems, these issues have a domino effect. Once that one over there hit, it affected that one next to it, and so on. Yes, you are correct again, you absolutely did suggest a half water change, my apologies again. I will buy another 30 gallon can, and do it all at once, in one session. What I meant by diluted was the level of nitrates in the water, not the salinity or anything like that. <Yes, you will be lowering nitrates by way of dilution, but also keep in mind you have to address the source of excess nutrients/waste. This may help you here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm > But thanks for clarifying.. All of that uneaten food/poo went down the overflow, stayed right in the system. I thought the skimmer would get most of it, didn't know any better, nor think anything about it until now. <Yes, waste needs to be out of the system, not out of sight.> Thank you much for the nematodes response. Bob said all there was to say on it, certainly. I currently have 2300 gph of flow rate in the tank, will upgrade to more powerful pumps first thing in the morning to reach at least 3000 gph, excellent suggestion, you're a real gem. Thanks for helping me build my wings on the way down. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Dee.

Naso Tang: System\Health\Shipping Stress. 3/14/2009
<Hi Paul>
I have a 125 (6' long) all fish.
I have some live rock (1) blue tang, (1) clown, (1) damsel, (1) mandarin,((1) yellow tang, (3) emerald crabs, (3) cleaner shrimp, several snails, (2) sally crabs, and several hermit crabs.
<Pretty closed to maxed out as far as stocking is concerned>
All the water parameters are exactly where they should be.
<Actual readings would be helpful.>
The tank has been set up for 6 months and have not had one problem with it.
I started out with a 30 a couple of years ago and learned from there.
<OK>
Three weeks ago I purchased a (Naso) Tang (west indies?) from Saltwaterfish.com.
<What kind? I am going to assume Naso lituratus Totally inappropriate for a tank this size and with this level of stocking.>
When it got here it was very lethargic and couldn't seem to get off of its side. It carried on approximately two days this way and then started swimming upright.
<How big was the fish - Fish under four inches rarely adapt to captivity.
Also, it is imperative to get them eating immediately.>
During this time it didn't eat and I let it go for three more days and it went back over on its side and never recovered. I subsequently got my credit for the fish and decided to use it to order a larger Hawaiian Naso Tang. (after the acclimation period)
<Any Quarantine?>
I put it in the tank and it just laid on its side. After several hours it righted itself and seemed to be swimming OK.
<Shipping\environmental stress, starvation.>
It has yet to eat and this morning it is listing to one side like the other one did. I have tried everything I can think of, "entice", krill, algae, flake food, etc. but it will not eat. The other fish in the tank are loving the different variety of things I have offered.
<You may want to try some live Brine Shrimp>
Am I missing something? I hate to lose the guy he is very pretty but am at my wits end. I contacted a local fish store about some help but he was as clueless as me on what to do.
<There is much to learn here. Firstly, Naso's get BIG, needing hundreds of gallons. Being in conditions too small will stress them to death.>
If you can give me some advice I would be most appreciative.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm and here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso_lituratus.htm >
Thanks,
<My Pleasure>
Paul
<Mike>

Naso Tang (Second attempt) HELP!! Hlth, temp./sys.   3/8/09
Hi Guys,
<Joey>
In a bit of a panic and I'm hoping and praying you guys can help.
<Will try>
150 US GAL Reef tank(with 50 GAL sump) , inhabitants are as follows:
1 x yellow tang approx 4 inches doing very well, nice and thick eating well good coloring and shape.
1 x powder brown tang doing amazingly. Beautiful specimen, eats well with no abrasions and is just my pride and joy.
1 x one spot fox face rabbit fish. Again doing very well and about 4 to possibly 5 inches in length although not nearly as "massive" as the tangs
4 x blue green chromis. All doing well and between 1 and 1.5 inches
2 x ocellaris clowns hosted in the same sebae again doing very well (1 = 2.5 inches , 1 = 3 .5 inches both very hearty)
1 x blue devil damsel doing well 2 inches
1x lemon (or yellow damsel) doing well but very very small I would say about 1 inch long
Various corals of all types, leathers, SPS's , LPS, Softs, etc.
About 200 LBS of Live Rock (lots of rock very large structure in the middle of the tank
5 inches or aragonite mixed with crushed coral bed
50 gallon sump with 1/3 as fuge . about 5 inch sand bed down there and about 30 pounds of live rock
Above display I have an algae scrubber that is in the process of being established
Lighting is :
2x 250W 14000K MH , 2 x 54 Watt T-5 FLO 420 NM , 2 x 54 Watt T-5 FLO 460NM,
9 white 1 w lunars and 9 blue 1 watt lunars.
Water parameters are all very good . There is one item that I'm not confident on however which Is water temperature. I have been running my tank at about 83 degrees at night and it peaks at just under 86 (85.8 - 85.9) during the day.
<I'd lower this, allow it to be a big lower... a good five degrees F. or so>
There seems to be 2 schools of thought on this. The mid to upper 70's crew and the "keep it as NSW temps of where the fish came from" crew. Because these are reef animals mostly from the south pacific or Indonesia I thought it would make sense to run it at this temperature.
<Ahh, no... see WWM re... I've written and debated extensively re this topic... much better in almost all cases for temperature to be lower...
Don't have the time to hash over again here. Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/heatrat.htm
and the linked files above>
At any rate here is my issue and why I'm so concerned, well call it scared as honestly that's what I am right now.
A while back I introduced a very healthy looking Blonde Naso into my tank (no QT and trust me I understand all the reasoning behind doing the Qt I just haven't had an opportunity to set one up yet although I definitely need one and it WILL get done believe me!)
<I hear you>
The fish was perfect in the store and eating well. I brought him home and initially he was okay (for the first few minutes) but when I tried to feed he did not show interest. Then he began to show "black" coloring. And when I say black I mean it was frightening at first since I had never seen a fish turn completely black like that. Almost like he had donned a ninja outfit. No heavy breathing or other behavior that would lead me to believe he was stressed so I thought maybe those are just his night colors?
<Yes.... can be... and patchiness, lighter blotches... But in a word: stress... from?>
I did some searching and didn't really find anything leading me to believe that NASO's have "night" colors
<Oh, indeed they do. Large Naso lituratus (though I don't condone/suggest this) are collected for ornamental use at night time... sitting/laying on the bottom... Have seen many times>
so I began to really be concerned. For the next few days I continued to try without success to get him to eat vigorously. He would eat the occasional passer by seaweed the others would let slip but nothing more than that. I thought maybe he was getting bullied but didn't really see anything to support that.
<Often subtle...>
Then about the 3rd or 4th day he began to get a white cotton looking crust around his lips.
<Oh, might have been damaged in collection, holding shipping... not uncommon>
It would almost drift in and out of his mouth occasionally when he breathed. Almost as if he had a fake mustache that wasn't quite staying on?
This went on for another 2 days and finally he passed on "I assume" because he never came out of the rocks structure.
<Ah no... the question might be... "what caused this fish to go into the rock structure?">
My Cleaners all disappeared for a day or so and all reemerged later on at the same time. It was about a week when I finally gave up all hope that she was alive.
I did some research and found that perhaps the stress of the move caused her to get a fungal infection that ended up leading to her demise. I did some asking around at the LFS and it turns out that she had just been brought in that same day when I bought her. A mistake I will NEVER make again. I should have asked but saw her eating which gave me a false sense of security.
<You're learning>
This time I put a slightly bigger and much thicker specimen in to my tank.
Same 2 hour acclimation process. Very healthy and eating although he had been at the LFS for about a week. Eating well as well. I put her in last night and immediately began to see the same type of behavior as the last including the "Black" coloring. I am very very scared now that she will go the same way the other one did and I just can't figure it out. Why the Naso?
<Mmm, one important factor that you've mentioned... temperature... and its effect on metabolism AND dissolved oxygen... need to lower...>
I have bought all my fish from the same place and all are doing amazingly well? Not to mention the powder browns are supposed to be more difficult to care for than the Naso's ?
<... needs more DO>
 Or at least that's my understanding. BtW I have tried soaking the food in garlic and also tried Zoecon with Zoë mixture.
(have tried brine, pellet, flakes, and seaweed of green, purple, brown and red varieties although I understand they have a preference for the brown)
This time no fungus looking white stuff around the mouth (YET!) but I have noticed whitish markings on her skin . She had those from the store and they kind of look like just character marking... just abrasions perhaps.
But I'm not sure. I really don't want to lose her . I would be very grateful for any help you can provide. Thank you very much for your time.
Very Gratefully,
I tried to introduce
Joey Freyre
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Lipstick tang, hlth. related to shipping    – 03/03/09
HELP!!!I purchased a lipstick tang and received him FedEx last Friday.
After acclimating him to the tank I put him in and he fell to the bottom on his side. He hasn't started eating and lays around most of the day. He has now developed black spots on his head and is very lethargic. I took him from the
main tank (125 gal). Should I be concerned and return him or ??? I have read some of the answers on the site but haven't found anything on the black spots. Paul Dodson
<Mmm, given the paucity of data offered... and having handled thousands of Naso lituratus on the collecting, shipping, receiving side... I'd leave this fish in the larger system... It is very likely "just" suffering from being moved... will rally or not... but most likely so in the largest, best-circulated circumstance available. Bob Fenner>

Re: lipstick tang – 03/03/09
Thanks, will try and hope he comes out of it. It doesn't want to eat so I guess it's another learning process for me.
<Please see WWM re... Nasos can take time, be mal-affected by env. factors in learning to/accepting novel foods. Cheers, BobF>

Naso Tang Issue, Cu   2/4/09 Hi, <Hello> I have had this blond Naso Tang for about three weeks. He is currently in quarantine getting copper and Prazi pro treatments. <For what?> As you can see from the picture, he is splotchy. At times, when his skin looks dark grey, he looks very splotchy. <Yes> When his skin is light grey, it doesn't look so bad. He is not the most aggressive eater but does eat. He has not changed his behavior and mostly likes to hide but he will swim around every 15 minutes if there is no sudden movement outside the tank. Is there anything else I can do about the spots? Thanks. Mike <Stop the copper exposure... it's killing this fish. Acanthurids don't "like" cupric ions... These markings, behavior are evidence of poisoning. Bob Fenner>

Re: worm, Naso QT, Protozoan fecal presence  2/1/09 Thanks for the compliments! Coincidentally, I have a Naso tang in quarantine (for the past 4 weeks) that stopped eating today. I noticed white hard fecal matter and decided to look at that under a microscope. Well I saw (pics attached) of something, possibly parasitic. Could you help identify? <Mmm, other than appears Protistan/Protozoan, no... but could be a commensal...> The Naso appears to be behaving otherwise normally. The various pics are all pics of the same thing. Thanks again! <I would not be overly concerned re this... I would go ahead and place this Tang... as it is likely to decline in the present small QT, and unlikely to infest the DT. Bob Fenner>

Ciliates at 400 X

Re: worm 2/1/09 I'm a bit hesitant to put him in the DT b/c he did have Amyloodinium (verified microscopically). <Mmm... okay> Treated with Chloroquine diphosphate for 10 days. He's been doing well 4th day into treatment and been doing well for the last 8 day post treatment (so he's been doing well for 12 days) up until yesterday. Is it too soon to put him into DT? thanks <Given this further data/input, it is too soon. BobF>

Naso Tang needs your help !! – 01/22/09 WWM Crew, <Kirk> I have had this Naso Tang for 2wks and notice these splotches on his side. <Stress coloration...> My two main questions are: 1. What is it?? 2. Is this something to be concerned with? <Something too challenging... too small a system, social incompatibility  are the most common... And yes> I have blue face angel and a Kole eye tang that are doing well (added the same time as the Naso tang), only the Naso tang is showing signs on this splotches. The Naso tang is picking algae off the rock and sides of the tank. Eyes are clear and seems alert. <Good signs> I am feeding Arcti-Pods, Rod's Food (herbivore blend) and new life pellets. <Good foods...> It also is eating Red Algae sheets that I put on an algae clip (FWIW, all fish are eating from the algae clip). <Good> I will give you the perfunctory water parameters: ammonia, nitrites, nitrates all ZERO Mg is 1200 PO4 is ZERO Ca 425 pH 8.3 salinity 1.024 temp 77 Fish are housed in an established (2yrs this May 2009) 375 gallon tank. <Mmm, good sized system...> My main goal is to identify what the splotches are and to determine if ANY action or treatment is needed on my part. To see pics of the Tang, view my photos here: <http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3217403650/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3217403650/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3216548959/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3216548959/ <http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3216385885/> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7329275@N05/3216385885/ thanks Kirk <Mmm... well... it could be that this specimen was just roughly handled (happens) on/during collection, processing from the wild (many Naso lituratus are "picked up" on the bottom at night while sleeping... have "hand prints" on them...) or that it is simply adjusting to its new surroundings... I would wait on doing anything overt here (not move or "treat" it, the system)... and this Naso will likely clear up in a few weeks. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso Tang needs your help !! Bob, <Kirk> So whatever the stress coloration the Naso has, is NOT contagious and will NOT be spread to other fish in the tank, correct? <That is correct... with a very high degree of confidence> This is my main concern. Thanks Kirk <Welcome my friend. BobF> Re: Naso Tang needs your help !! 1/27/2009 Bob, <Kirk> Today, I spoke to the online vendor where I purchased the Naso tang. They viewed the photo and said the splotches were caused by a bacterial infection and could easily be treated with Maracyn II. <...> Do you agree with this diagnosis ?? <No> Should I be worried about the health of this tang? Thanks Kirk <Worried? No... worrying won't change the future... Concerned? Sure... particularly if this translates to further investigation, consideration and action (if necessary) on your part. IF you'll take the time to read re infectious marine fish disease (on WWM), you'll/you'd find that such occasions are not generally "treatable" per se... and the genus Naso in particular can't be easily moved/sequestered in small volumes. Please... read, don't write unless you have something novel to report or inquire re. B>

Naso Tang 007, hlth.   10/14/08 Dear Crew, i First off, thank you for a wonderful web-site. I just happen upon it a few weeks ago and thoroughly enjoying reading all the vast amount of information. It's very commendable of you to offer such a tremendous service. I do own a copy of CMA. Great book Dr. Fenner! <Mmm, no doctorate, just Bob, please> I'm somewhat of a newbie in that I left the hobby several years ago as time constraints (i.e. 3 children) along with moving to new residence kept me from re-establishing my tank. Anyhow, my reason for writing today is that I am starting up my 300 gal. FOWLR and have made my first fish purchase. One of the fish being a 6" Blonde Naso Tang. This fish was offered at discount through the retailer (F&S) you mention on your web-site frequently. (I wonder if it had been in their tank for long period of time, thus the reason for the discounted price?) <Possibly> I received the fish on Weds. afternoon and by Sat. morning he developed what appears to me to be Lateral Line Disease. I am attaching a picture for your review. <I see> The Naso was placed in quarantine tank 30 gal.(4' x 1' x 1' ) upon receipt on Weds. 10/08. The water in the quarantine tank is being treated each day with Kordon's Prevent Ich per their instructions. <Mmm, won't "treat" HLLE... in fact the ingredients here, the further stress... will drive all the other direction> Water parameters are as follows: spg 1.023, <Mmm, low, but likely better here for gas exchange purposes> ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates <5, temp. 76, ph 8.2. He is currently not accepting food i.e. mysis shrimp, krill dip in vita-chem, red algae w/garlic sheets, flakes, etc. <Stop! I would move this fish (back) into the 300 gallon setting... The etiology/causative mechanism of the syndrome shown won't "spread" as a consequence to other livestock... and otherwise the chance of this fish resolving is very small> He is not actively swimming around tank, occasional stroll and then sits on bottom. <More bad behavior> Today, Monday, he has started gilling. I have been using a power head position right at the water-line to agitate the surface so that there's plenty of air mixing with the water. <Mmm, not for this species... Move it> Could you please confirm my diagnoses and provide any other information on treatment as well as suggestions on what else can be done to save him. I read all that I could find own your web-site with respect HIHLL and seems to me that the general consensus for its cause is related to nutrition and water quality. <Yes, this is so> With that being the case, what could have caused this condition in such a short period of time (3 1/2 days) given the water parameters? <Stress period... as you speculate, just how long has this fish been kept, moved about in sub-par conditions?> Your response most appreciated. <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Emailing: Naso Tag 007... reading... Crypt    10/14/08 Thank you Bob for your response. <Welcome Scott> Sorry about calling you Dr. but, a man of with your wealth of knowledge and experience certainly qualifies you to be one. Just wanted to clarify a few things. First off, the Tang did perish yesterday afternoon ( I wish I had received your reply sooner as I would have acted on your advise to move him). Secondly, I was following the personal recommendation of one Kordon's scientist/marine biologist who said I should quarantine all tangs for about six weeks <Mmm, please see at least WWM re my opinions here and rationale for same... we differ> and treat the quarantine tank initially with Kordon's organic Prevent Ich product <... and my input re this product. NOT reliable> for seven days and stop if no Ich presents. He stated that Tangs were notorious for carrying Ich <This is so> and by using this product it would likely eradicate any internal/external parasites( I assumed he wasn't giving me a sales pitch!). <Mostly> The HIHLL problem did not present until after nearly two days of quarantining. <Likely the Kordon product was more cause here...> I did not realize that the product in question would create additional stress as there is no information to contrary on Kordon's Prevent Ich label/ web-site. Thirdly, I did not do a freshwater dip as your web-site seemed to indicate that this method should not be utilized for Tangs unless parasites were observed on the fish prior to placing it in the quarantine tank. Would this have made a difference for this fish? <Perhaps... but... only can guess> So should I be employing a different strategy for my quarantining fish? <... you should... read> This Kordon product is somewhat new and does not require water changes during treatment (tremendous benefit). <... again, take a look on the BBs... others input... Kordon is a good co., with many fine products... this is not one of them> All other fish, yellow tang, blue hippo, and one spot fox face seem to be doing fine during this treatment. Thank you again for your time. Scott <BobF>

Naso Problems!!!!!   9/19/08 I have just received a Naso Tang in yesterday and noticed after I had placed him in the QT this fungus "I am guessing" on the side of the fish. <Mmm, no, not really> What do you think it is and what would be the best course of action. Should i do a freshwater dip with Methylene Blue, Formalin-3, or ParaGuard. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Brad <This is almost assuredly "shipping/collecting damage"... As this specimen looks to be in good shape otherwise, I'd leave it as is to heal... can be quite quick to do so... a few weeks. Bob Fenner>

Methylene Blue with Erythromycin? Naso lituratus hlth., beh.   6/11/08
Hello Crew!
<Charlie>
I have a somewhat urgent need for a definitive answer, I have searched somewhat here and have not as of yet found my answer. I do know that it is here, as I believe I have read it months ago. Yet, in my frantic search cannot for the life of me locate it on this vast wealth of information. So I come to you in hopes of finding it sooner. My thanks in advance for the help you offer. Now my question.
I have a 6 in or so blond Naso tang. She has been housed in my 135 for approximately 15-16 months.
<Will need more room than this>
This fish is BTW my favorite and I love Anna very much. This past weekend I relocated the tank to another room. She was temporarily housed with 12 other fish in a 65 filled with water straight from the 135. Anna was in there for about 15 hours with a heater and a Koralia 4 for flow. All fish made it back to the DT and were treated very well during the move. Most including Anna were hand caught
<Yikes...>
as they feed from my hand daily, and never saw a net. All look and act normally upon intro back to the DT except Anna. She displayed the typical dark shading when stressed and didn't feed the following day Sunday) Nor did she ever really socialize. Last night, I found here laying still, slightly curved and dark grey along the bottom.
<Tangs do lay on the bottom at night>
She is very listless and just plain weak acting. Any current will pin her in place. I have moved her into the 10 QT with an air stone/heater and dosed erythromycin.
<I would move this fish back to the main display.>
I cannot see any evidence of anything wrong with this fish. She does have a sore on her side. But that was definitely caused by being stuck against a power head. Which was caused be her ailment. I don't have any idea what it may be.
<My best, high-confidence guess is psychological stress... from being moved, kept in such a small volume... Will "get over it" in time... likely under a week. But DO move this fish into the larger quarters, now>
However in a last ditch effort to save her, I administered the erythromycin.
<These are miscible... no problem>
Finally here's my question...LOL I want to know if dosing Methylene blue along side the erythromycin is OK?
<Yes>
Also would it if it is, be of any possible help/harm to her. Really I don't think she's going to make it, but I will try anything you suggest. Also I feel as though her problem is caused by some kind of trauma she may have suffered while my watchful eyes were not upon her.
I thank you and so does Anna
Charlie Bunch
<Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang - Possible Ich? 04/05/2008
Hey guys, how's it goin.
<<Hello, Andrew today>>
I was just going through your website and trying to figure out just what's going on with my Naso Tang. I have had it for about a month and a half, and am keeping it in a 55 gallon tank (I didn't do my research prior to the purchase, but figured that I might keep it until there are size issues). Anyways, the other day I came home, and my roommate pointed out that there were white spots on the side of it. Immediately I feared ich, given the white spots and horror stories that I've heard. But then under further research it seems unlikely that it could be ich. I have not introduced anything new to the tank in quite some time, and it's behaviour seems to be quite normal. It's breathing is regular, and feeding is normal as well. The white spots are about 10 or so in number, and could be compared to the size of an uncooked grain of rice. They are also definitely beneath the skin. I've read that this is actually a characteristic of the tang, however I do not feel fully convinced that I should pass on treatments. So if there is any information you can offer me, or anything you can tell me to be keeping an eye out for, it would be much appreciated.
<<Sounds like Ich to me, treat with hyposalinity. More can be read here including the linked articles and FAQ's http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm >>
Thanks a lot, Anthony.
<<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>> <Mmm, much more likely embedded worms, possibly Microsporideans... Not really treatable nor too debilitating. But... this fish will likely perish in this too-small setting. RMF>

Re: Naso Tang - Possible Ich? 04/07/2008
They don't seem like the regular sort of spots that Ich produces. They're much bigger, and seem to come and go. Do you know anything about the Naso Tang having such spots on it? Is this a characteristic of the fish? And given that it has none of the other symptoms, and I haven't introduced any new livestock to the tank in quite some time, could Ich be eliminated as a possibility? Sorry if it seems like I am refuting your far more knowledgeable opinion, but I'm just looking to be convinced either way. Thanks again.
<<It does sound like Ich to me as these are very prone to this parasite. Their body should be nice and smooth. Please do read more here. If you can provide a close up photograph of the spot(s), then that would great. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm >>
<<Thanks for the follow-up. A Nixon>>

Questions Cycling / Tank Additions 04/01/2008
Hello guys.
<<Hello, Andrew today>>
Let me begin by saying that I am new to the aquarium world and this is my first system. I have a 50 gallon bowed tank. I have a TurboFlotor
multi sl Aqua medic protein skimmer, the Eheim 60 canister filter Ecco comfort, 2 powerheads, a digital thermometer, a wall of bubbles (to help with water movement), two Corallife Aqua medic 150 w 14000k metal halide lights and 70 lbs of live rock as well as 2 bags of live sand.
<<Suggest remove the wall of bubbles, no good for water circulation, powerhead should be used instead>>
The tank has been running for 4 weeks. I test the water every other day and for the last week and a half the conditions have been stable Although honestly they only spiked the first week when the live rock was added:
Ammonia- 0ppm
Calcium- 350
Nitrate- 0ppm
Nitrite- .25ppm
Ph- 8.2
Temp- 77 to 79
Hydrometer- 1.022
Two weeks into the process I added 3 damsels.
<<Yikes>>
Three days ago I removed 2 of the damsels and added a Naso tang, 3 mandarin dragonets, 1 flaming scallop, 20 snails, and a cleaner shrimp. Two days ago I added a purple tip anemone, a rose anemone, and another anemone similar to the purple tip.
<<OH WOW...Seriously, please stop. Remove all the stock from the tank and return all but the Damsel, snails and cleaner shrimp. This is a brand new setup and the stock is not suitable for this. The Naso tang needs to be in a tank 3 times larger than yours, the dragonettes and anemone's should not be added until the tank is about 9 - 12 months old as they really need a mature / established reef tank to survive>>
The Naso was beautiful when I purchased him and swam around the tank like a champ. The day after having him he began to turn dark gray on the right side of his body.
<<Stress>>
This morning when I awoke he was DEAD and my pink tip anemone has been floating at the top of the tank with the tentacles pointing down and the butt inflated at the water surface. It simply floats around up there. Is this normal?
<<No, not normal, reasons stated above>>
Why do you suppose my Naso died?
<<A combination of new tank, heavy bio-load, lack of space>>
I checked the water after removing him and the levels were all normal. I did a 20 percent water change anyway and checked my reading again and they were still the same. I purchased phytoplankton that I have been feeding the scallop, and I have been putting a frozen mixture
of omega-3 brine shrimp, squid, mysis krill, spinach, plankton, and algae. I thaw out the food and put a small amount in the water for the fish and use a turkey baster to place the food directly in the center of the anemones.
Please give me any insight to help with what I am or have done wrong. I am so sad to have lost Tommy (Naso tang). I appreciate your time. Thanks in advance!
<<Its a hard lesson to learn, the patience and research lesson. These two things are needed when getting into marine systems as a whole. Patience is used to slowly stock the aquarium, research is used to assess and check if you can adequately meet the needs of the specific inhabitant. A hard thing to tell you, but these are the reasons things are failing and inhabitants are dying. Please do use the search function of this site and check the needs / requirements of potential stock for the tank. Learn from this mistake, its a common one>>
<<Sorry its not a move positive response, however, its an honest appraisal of the situation. Regards, A Nixon>>

Loss of Naso and Foxface... allelopathy?
Hey there, I have question about my reef aquarium. The aquarium has been setup for about 9 months. I use Coralife salt and use well water rather than RO water. My tap water tested at 3 with a TDS meter. This is just as good as RO water so i just decided just to use the well water. There is .2 ppm of phosphate in the water, however, so i put a few drops of Caribsea's Phosbuster and it works great. Well water may be inconsistent, and i have an inkling that it may be the root of my problem, but I'll let you decide when I'm done rambling about my tank and ask the you actual question.
The water parameters are as follows:
Salinity - 1.025
Temp - 77-79 F
Ph - 8.0-8.2
Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate - 0
calcium - 425
Alkalinity - 12 dKH (my alkalinity has always been high, without any supplementation whatsoever.)
<Unusual... am wondering how this jives with such a low reading for Total Dissolved Solids?>
I dose Seachem's reef complete for calcium, and reef plus for trace elements for the corals.
<This is the source>
Everything else is replaced by 10% water changes every 10-14 days. Other maintenance includes emptying the skimmer cup and cleaning the glass.
The tank is a 75 gallon with a 30 gallon sump. The sump design was based on Melve's reef model F sump. The drain branches off and roughly 30% drains to the fuge section and the rest drains to the skimmer section. Both of these sections then overflow into the return pump section. The sump contains a octopus nw-150 skimmer and a fuge section with Chaeto and Caulerpa as well as a DSB and live rock rubble. My return pump is a rio 2100. I also run Purigen occasionally in my overflow. In the display, i have roughly 85 pounds of Fiji live rock formed in two patch reef structures. Circulation if provided by the return, a Hydor Koralia #2, and a maxi-jet 1200.
The livestock list is as follows:
Fish -
Yellow Tang
Coral Beauty
Six Line Wrasse
Pair of Ocellaris Clowns
1 green Chromis
corals-
lots of Zoanthids/Palys (may be a concern also)
Ricordea Florida
Finger leather
Toadstool leather
Hammer
Several Mushrooms
Xenia
Inverts-
Condylactis anemone (yeah, I want him out, but he's stuck on there GOOD)
Common starfish
Sand sifting starfish
Blue leg hermits (approx 20)
Turbo snails (approx 15)
Nassarius snails (approx 15)
Feather Duster
Misc. worms, copepods etc
Now, here's the question: In the last two months two of my fish have died out of the blue.
The fish are a Foxface lo and a Naso tang (a small one, with plenty of room in the tank)
<Mmm, these species really need larger quarters than a 75 gallon tank>
The Foxface was the first to go. He died about 2 months ago. He was fine one day, then the next he was found dying on the bottom. I had him for only about 3 months.
The Naso Tang died today and exhibited the same symptoms, he was fine one day, then the next day he was found struggling for life at the bottom, only to die a few hours later. I had him for about 8 months.
What could be the cause of these fishes death's?
<Likely "stress"... from the psychological crowding component mentioned... coupled (more importantly) with negative interaction twixt some of your "corals"... Note that these Acanthuroid fishes are the ones needing the highest dissolved oxygen in your system...>
It could very well be anything, but with the information provided i am hoping you guys can figure something out. Thanks.
<Please do read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
I would be pulling the Condylactis, with the rock it's attached to; at least. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang behaviour... hlth.    12/11/07
Hi Bob,
<Chris>
I have a Naso Tang - apprx 5" for 3 months now. Feeding him different algae formulas blood worms and mysis shrimp soaked in vitamins and garlic. Occasionally gave him lettuce
<I wouldn't... no real food value, and too likely a source of unwanted nutrients added to your water>
He was always fine and hungry --- 2 days ago he stopped moving around the tank (which he always did) and is sitting in the corner behind live rock.
<A very bad sign>
He does not eat any more and gets out only at night.
He is getting skinnier.
<Yikes>
I have 155 gallon reef tank where he is the biggest fish (others are several clowns, 2 athias,3 fire fishes, 1 dragon goby,4 chromis, 2 blood shrimp, Blue cheek trigger (very peaceful)
<Maybe...>
I have my own versions
1. I noticed that I have long worm in my aquarium (similar to tube worm) - could he harm fish?
<Mmm, no>
2.Trigger is attacking Tang behind my back???(never noticed any tricks from him)
<Possibly>
3. Something to do with water quality --- I had my nitrates in their 20 lately
Best Regards Chris
<I have another item to add... there is some good chance this fish has luminal problems... either a loss of useful organisms (like termites) or parasites there. I would treat the fish (perhaps in the main system in this case, circumstances) with a vermifuge and protozoacide (Prazi and Metronidazole). Please see WWM re their use. Bob Fenner>

What went wrong... Naso mystery death, too small QT      8/26/07
Hey WWM crew
I would like to start off by giving all of you there a big thanks for all the help giving to people on this site.
<cool :-) >
It has been extremely helpful to me, making me a much better aquarist. After reading all the misfortunes of people by not using a quarantine tank and or dips, and learning how easy it is, I've been convinced to change my ways.
I set up a 10 gal tank and used the water from my main tank, as well as an established canister filter, and a heater. There is no gravel, or anything else in the tank, temp is the exact same as the main tank and the tank is covered. My first fish was a Naso tang. I drip acclimated him, gave him a methylene blue dip (using the directions on the bottle) and put him in the tank making sure there was no temp difference. A towel was placed around the outside of the tank to give the fish some since of security.
<Hmmm...I'd only suggest the quarantine tank be bigger and have some PVC pipe parts or ceramic pots to provide sleeping and hiding places.>
Three days later he was dead. He was found between the heater and the glass halfway down the tank.
<Is there any chance he got stuck?>
I had not performed any water changes in this three days and the quarantine tank is in the bathroom. The store I bought him at gets his supply directly from the Philippines and has assured me that cyanide is not used in it's captured. Also the store had the fish for two weeks and all livestock looks very healthy and alert to include this tang. The tank looked healthy and alert up until death other than being stressed from being moved. That's all; I don't get it, what went wrong?
<God only knows what actually happened. Aquarium fish die "mysteriously" all the time. In the absence of disease or obvious water chemistry problems, it's usually stress. Unfortunately, we aquarists tend to be largely unaware of just how much stress our fish might be under in a certain situation (or of the more subtle signs and causes of such stress). Here's a good article with some good info about fish and stress:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/fishdisho.htm>
Any help on this would me greatly appreciated so as I don't continue to kill fish.
<The unfortunate truth is that even if you do everything right, you may still lose a fish or two. But if you're as careful as you can be, you'll lose far fewer fish.>
Thanks again for any help or advice. Kris
<De nada,
Sara M.>

Re: What went wrong... Naso mystery death, too small QT      8/26/07
Thanks Sara for the advice and link. I'm glad to here that there was no obvious mistake on my part. If i can ask one last thing though?
<Well, of course. :-) >
We know protein skimmers are crucial in marine tanks.
<Hmmm... that depends on who you talk to, how big the tank is, the number/size of other filtration methods being used, and the experience level of the aquarist. There are some "fringe" reef aquarists who successfully maintain their aquariums without them. But radical reef keeping ideas aside, generally yes, it's largely agreed that skimmers are important to maintaining a healthy marine tank... especially for fish only tanks.>
However everything I've read say's there not needed in a quarantine tank. why? Is this because the quarantine tank should have more water changes.
<Well, unless there's a dire emergency, a quarantine tank should not have many fish in it at any given time. In other words, the bioload should be very low. The quarantine tank should never be as heavily stocked as the main tank. And yes, regular water changes can make up for the lack of a skimmer. >
again thank you for your time and help. Kris
<My pleasure,
Sara M.>

Naso Tang & Colony Polyps, hlth. and beh.   7/12/07
Hello!
I have some concerns about my tank and I hope you can help. I have been monitoring my tank levels and adding the appropriate chemicals as needed, but my orange colony polyps still are not opening up.
<Hmm... which chemicals are we talking about here? what exactly are you putting in your tank and how much?>
I read that they only like little to no current movement around them and I placed them in a low circulation spot. Do you know why they might not be opening up?
<Impossible to say without knowing much more about your tank. What are your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels? What's your pH? alkalinity? temp? salinity?>
I also had my Naso Tang die today.
<Bummer>
I did not see any parasites on him at all and he seemed to be happy in the tank and was eating ok. Any suggestion on why he might have died?
<Again, pretty impossible to say without knowing so much more about your water.>
He was a juvenile and only about 3" long. When I bought him he did have some discoloration to him (white spots all around), but I was told that is because he was a juvenile.
<or stress>
I have a 150 gallon tank that is six feet long.
Thanks for your help in advance!
<Please do write back with many more details so that we might help you more.
Best,
Sara M.>
Jenny Hugi

A couple of q's, Naso hlth./sys., mixing Cnid.s   5/14/07
Hi crew,
<Sarena>
My fiancé and I LOVE your site. It has been such a great help! You guys have taught me so much that my non-marine friends are convinced that I am a marine expert because I use acronyms and terms they've never heard like "reverse osmosis" and "QT" (although I am very new to the hobby and still don't know nearly enough!!).
<I am fairly old to the hobby and find myself in the same condition!>
The first question I have is regarding our Naso Tang. We just got him from saltwaterfish.com (he's about 4 in long). When we first put him in QT, we fed him some frozen Spirulina enriched brine shrimp and he ate it right up. Since then, he will not eat a thing.
<This genus of rather open-water tangs really doesn't "like", do well in quarantine... I suggest you do a pre-emptory pH-adjusted FW dip/bath and place it in your hopefully minimum four, better six foot long system>
We kept some dried macroalgae on a clip in the corner of the tank...he wouldn't touch it...we even tried soaking it in Garlic Guard. We thought it may have been because he was unhappy in such a small tank (10 gallons) so we moved him over to our display (4 ft long, 72 gallons, good water flow) yesterday.
<Ah, good>
He was only in QT for about 1 week but we did daily Para Guard treatments during that time so hopefully (fingers crossed) he is parasite free.  We still have not seen him eat at all.
<Takes a while to adjust... and this fish will likely need to be moved to larger quarters still w/in a half year or so...>
He was out and about last night, swimming in place against the water where the flow was heaviest. I'm hoping he's just "adjusting" and maybe that's why he's not eating?
<Yes. Very likely so>
But it just seems weird that he chowed down on the first day we got him and
then not since.
<Probably had not eaten for a good while before...>
The other thing I noticed today is that he will only come out from hiding when I'm not in the room. If I peak around the corner I'll see him swimming around and then if I walk in the room, he'll quickly go hide behind some rocks and not come back out until I leave. Do you think he'll get over that?
<Perhaps... as stated, and posted elsewhere (I have a relatively new article on Naso lituratus on WWM... this fish needs ROOM to feel secure>
Ok, second question...about possibly overstocking. Here is the rundown of what's in our tank and I'm wondering if it would be crazy to get anything else (maybe one more fish) or if we should get rid of some of our stuff:
It's a 72 gallon reef tank with approx 100lb Fiji live rock. All levels are good with the exception of the nitrates (were around 40-60ppm)...yikes, I know!
<Way too high... this needs addressing, fixing NOW>
We have been doing almost daily 10 gallon water changes and vacuuming the substrate to get the nitrates down and it has helped (they are now around 15ppm) so we're going to continue to do that until we can get them back to normal.
Fish:
• the 1 Naso Tang
• 2 Percula Clowns
• 2 Pajama Cardinals
• 1 3-Striped Damsel (bully of the tank)
Inverts:
• 4 Tiny Blue Leg Hermits
• 10 Nassarius Snails
• 4 Queen Conches
• 1 Fighting Conch
• 1 Peppermint Shrimp
• 1 Camelback Shrimp
• 1 Coral Banded Shrimp
• 1 Anemone Crab
• 1 Arrow Crab
<Keep your eye on this Stenorhynchus... become predatory>
• 3 Emerald Crabs
<Ditto>
• 2 Porcelain Crabs
• 2 Sally Lightfoot Crabs
• 1 Brittle Starfish
• 1 Red Serpent Starfish
• 1 Purple Urchin
• 1 Cleaner Clam (although I can't find him)
• 1 Sand Shifting Cucumber
• 1 Yellow Cucumber
• 1 Lettuce Nudibranch
• 4 Feather Dusters
• 1 Long Tentacle Anemone
• 2 Pink Tip Haitian Anemones
• 1 Atlantic Carpet Anemone
• 1 Rock Anemone
• 1 Florida Condi Anemone
<Mixing anemones together and with other Cnidarians can be very big trouble...>
• 1 Red Gorgonian
• 1 Deep Sea Yellow Gorgonian
• 1 Orange Tree Sponge
Corals:
• 1 rock of Yellow Polyps
• 1 rock of Green Star Polyps
• 2 Green Ricordea Mushroom Polyps
• 1 rock of Umbrella Mushroom Polyps
• 1 Leather Toadstool
• 1 rock of Orange and Lime Green Zooanthids
• 1 Cladiella
• 1 Frilly Mushroom Coral
• 1 Christmas Tree Coral
Everything seems to be doing great but that's this week...who knows...it seems to change all the time. We recently stocked up a lot on the corals and anemones so I'm worried that we might have overloaded it too quickly and that could be a recipe for disaster. Any insight would be great.
<Read on WWM re each of these species, and any future purchases... Ahead of acquisition...>
And last question (sorry, this email is getting to be longer than some of the reports I had to write in college!)...one of our perc. clowns has one gill that sticks out a little bit. He seems completely fine...not acting weird at all, swimming all over the place, and eating well. His gill has been sticking out like that for a few weeks now. We did move him to the QT tank when we first noticed it and treated him for a week and 1/2 with Para guard (thinking it could possibly be a parasite) but the gill didn't change and he seemed to be fine so we moved him back to the display. Should I be worried about it?
<Mmm, no... Worrying will not change the future>
Thanks again for all of the great info you provide and sorry for the ridiculously long email!!
Sarena
<No worries. Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Blonde Naso Tang Tail    4/23/07
I have had a 3" blonde Naso in my tank for about a month, and he is wonderful, eating algae all the time gets along with the Tomato clown, and 2 cleaner shrimp.  No Problems.  Today when I got home I noticed a couple of white very small stringy spots on his tail.  Almost like something just got caught on his tail.  They are Not spots.  He is acting fine.  I just checked all parameters yesterday and all is good.  Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 2.5 ppm, PH 8.2, Alk normal, salinity 1.022, and temp 79.6.  He is acting, breathing, and eating as usually, and doesn't seemed bothered.  Do you have any ideas.  Should the cleaner shrimp take care of it.  
<Will likely help... These spots may be "nothing" (a reaction series by the Naso lituratus) or could be crustacean or worm of some sort parasites...>
They do jump aboard him every now and then.  Not panicking yet but just wanted to see what you thought before it got out of hand.
You guys are great
Thank You
Aaron
<I would do nothing to treat this/these... but keep up good feeding (have you tried Spectrum pelleted foods, brown macrophytic algae?), and water quality. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang Death - 4/6/07
Alex (or whichever WetWebWizard is answering our query this evening):
<It is me again. :-)>
You have been a wonderful resource for us, and so we hope you can shed light on this perplexing question (although we suspect it's just "one of those things").
In late January we purchased a beautiful blond Naso tang, about four-five inches long. It took him about two weeks to get used to our sailfin and Foxface (about the same size) but eventually he got along with everyone.
He spent his days swimming back and forth across the front of the tank; back and forth, back and forth, never varying his routine.
<This does not sound like a happy fish. This sounds like a fish who wants out.>
He  ate, he was friendly, no issues.
We have a 120 reef tank,
<Large by living room standards, but not large by Naso standards.>
extra powerhead, good water movement.  
Anyway, to make a long story shorter, we did a regular water change on Monday (30 gallons) and on Tuesday evening we noticed that the Naso was just hanging out on the left side of the tank, not moving.
When we checked the tank Wednesday morning, he was dead. Just like that. No real warning, no apparent sickness.
<There are many accounts of sudden Naso death on WWM.  My first search result:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nasosysfaqs.htm >
We immediately checked all our chemistry, and the tank is perfect.  
Temp 78, pH 8.3, and big round zeros for ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, phosphates.
<good. The only other thing that you can measure that has been blamed for some of these sudden deaths is oxygen level.>
Salinity 1.022.
<Could be higher.>
Any thoughts?
<He was clearly not happy with the confined space or tankmates.  These are open-water fish that get to 18” very quickly.  Possibly an oxygen drop after the water change.>
We did have a hair algae problem a few weeks ago (and you helped us through the huge tank cleaning project). We expected some death from the major upheaval (and indeed, lost a yellow tang, a flasher wrasse, a sand goby and an algae blenny in the process).
<Hopefully things are stabilizing for your tank now.  Keep your stock low for a while, and that will help your algae to slow down.  Take plenty of time and research any future fish additions thoroughly, now that you have found us.  Shoot for less demanding, smaller, hardier species. Your sailfin is really enough tang for this tank.>
But  the Naso seemed to come through it fine.
Thanks in advance for your opinions...
Michael and Dianne
<We hope we can be of some assistance.  Thanks, Alex>

Quarantine For Naso Tang? 3/28/07
Hi there, hope all is well today.
<Not too bad Aaron.>
I am going to be ordering from the internet a Blonde Naso Tang, about 3".  I had one before and it died from starvation.
<Can be problematic to acclimate.>
I didn't quarantine (I know) because I thought my 30 gallon QT would be way to small to keep him in for that period.
<It's not too bad for a 30 day stay providing it is the only fish in the tank.>
Both waters in the tanks are the same.  I have live rock in both with plenty of algae growth.
<Good>
The first died cause my clown would not let him eat.  He picked off the rocks and that was it.  Anything that I put in the tank the clown got, and the tang was afraid to try.  My question is do you think I should QT this guy when I get him in my 30 gallon, or I thought I could make some kind of divider for my 125 (they don't sell them that big) and just get him used to eating.  Right now I just have a diamond goby, cleaner shrimp, and tomato clown in there.  The clown is an aggressive eater.
<Mmm, is a problem acclimating with an aggressive eater.  Unless your dealer quarantined, I'd quarantine to be on the safe side, get him acclimated to eating
prepared foods with no bullies present.  As for the divider, most hardware stores sell acrylic sheets you can cut to fit.  Most will even cut it for you.  You can
then use this for a divider.  It then will allow the fish to see each other and allow the tang to eat undisturbed.  I'm thinking a couple weeks should suffice, then
remove the divider, the tang, by then, shouldn't take any baloney from anyone.  Also, read here and related files above for more info.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm>
Thanks,
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Aaron
 

Re: sick tang Hello! <Hi there> Our Naso Tang has not been acting like himself the last couple of days.  He does not beg for food, or come up to the front of the tank when we come in the room.  He has not been very active, as well.  Today I noticed a discoloration on his tail juncture (where the tail spines(?) are located).  The only way I can think to describe it is that it looks like someone spilled ink on the spot. <Agree with your apt description> I've attached 2 pictures - they are not very good, but hope that it will help you in diagnosing the problem.  My first instinct tells me to put him in the quarantine tank with antibiotics - agree? <Actually... I would leave this fish where it is (in the main/display tank) and boost its immune system via food (vitamin, HUFA soaking). Bob Fenner> Thanks is advance!

Ill Naso Tang and UV sterilizer
Hello Guys,
<Hi Scott, Don with you tonight>
First of all, you have sold me on the QT and I just purchased one today after reading through the many testimonials on the web site and in light of my sick Naso. I will follow protocol of many other write-ins with a description of set-up and with a few questions.
Sorry for the information overload, and thanks for any guidance you can offer to this novice aquarist.  
Tank description :
75 gallon, custom sea life wet-dry and protein skimmer. live sand, Rio 2500 powerhead, no U.V sterilizer yet, but am currently shopping for one and open for suggestions in this area.
Water parameters:
ph- 8.2
ammonia - .40 (?color chart!)
nitrite - .25
nitrate - 20
--- I can't seem to affect these parameters, with my biweekly 10% water changes, or even after a 25% change today. any suggestions
<If these numbers are accurate, you have something dying/decaying (like food, snail, crab, etc) keeping these high. The ammonia and nitrite need to be 0. Could be the 'dry' part of the wet dry filter. Is your skimmer giving good skimmate, dark color/good quantity, daily? It should. Could your tests be inaccurate? See if you have a local Fish Store or another aquarium friend that can confirm?>
I purchased a Naso from an out of town dealer with several specimens - half of which had black powdery spots all over and half of which looked and acted fine. I chose one of the healthy ones and after 5 days, mine is looking the same. He has been pacing constantly from one side of  tank to the other around rockwork for 3 days. I found him lying motionless this morning and thought he was dead. I have set up a 10 gallon quarantine tank ( I know, finally). I gave it a freshwater dip and placed it in QT.
<Yes, we should never buy from a tank (or even an apparent 'clean' tank if the store uses a combined water system) that shows any kind of disease. Never, as you now know :(.>
prior to reading your website I :
set up QT with all new water (oops) and new sponge filter (2nd oops) -- now what?    
<Make lots of salt water and aureate the heck out of it. Get ready to use it for  daily (20-50%) water changes. You will need to do this to keep ammonia and nitrite in check>
also dosed with 1st dose of copper treatment (now wishing I hadn't)-- stop or go?    
<Hmm, yes, for black spot, fresh water dips are highly successful and much less stressful. Initiate water changes and remove/replace sponge from filter. Make sure the fresh water dips are pH, temp adjusted and aerated>
Naso is not eating (offered live kelp, and Mysis shrimp among others)-- hasn't eaten in 3 days
<Continue offering, siphoning off uneaten excess right away>
I also have yellow tang in tank that was successfully treated for pop-eye, but is showing
pale coloring around face. is this disease or nutrition deficiency?
<I would increase veggie in diet, maybe a supplement by soaking in Selcon if you can find it>
I am also concerned about:
purchasing an appropriate U.V sterilizer with the correct flow rates--
my water parameters and the ever presence of  am, ni, and na--
<I would read here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/UVFAQs.htm and the blue links at the top of the page for more. I found this link by typing 'U.V sterilizer' into the Google search at the bottom of the WetWebMedia.com home page. Try it you'll like it!>
my dealer sold me an air pump to match the 10 gallon tank but I'm not sure if it is adequate for this fish--
<I am sure the pump is OK for the QT. A small powerhead is a good idea as well. But let's be frank. The worst news for your fish is that a 75 is possibly (but I don't think so) large enough for a yellow tang. And for the Naso? Forget it as this fish is heading for 18". The Yellow Tang needs 90-120G and the Naso several 100's of gallons. Don>

Naso Nasties.. (Injury or Illness?)
Ok- finally about 3 days ago some signs showed up on my Naso... I've never seen this before but I'm sure you all have. It looks like someone just got a knife and scrapped off some of his skin like where his Gills open and close. On both sides. Its weird, kinda brownish blackish but you have to look closely to see this. From far it just looks grey like the rest of his body. He still eats and nips at the rocks. Oh- and He finally is not at the top of the water surface in a corner. He came down about 6 days ago and hasn't gone back since. Now his behavior is a little more normal, except that he scratches his gills a lot on the live rock now.
<Well, it sounds like there may have been some kind of traumatic injury, which perhaps became infected?>
I must also tell you that I added CopperSafe last Saturday. I'm
pretty sure this is the cause for getting rid of whatever he had they kept him in that corner but I don't know what this stuff around the gills is? IT LOOKS LIKE A BURN? Like if the CopperSafe burned his gills ( I know that's prob. stupid) but that what it looks like.
<Well, that's not that far fetched, actually...Improperly administered, copper can actually cause damage to fishes...Important to test regularly when you're using copper...I guess that you'll really just have to keep an eye on this fish, to make sure that he appears to be healing properly. Hard to say exactly what happened, so just observe and be prepared to take action if things take a turn for the worse.>
I took your advice and ordered an AquaC Remora and had it overnighted to me. YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT THAT THING DID FOR ME.
In less the 24 hours the collection cup was full with DISGUSTING brown and green gunk and my water was like 75% clearer.
<That's what I'm talkin' about, man! Not bad, those Aqua C skimmers, huh? Jason Kim (Aqua C owner) knows his stuff! That's why we consistently recommend this brand...>
I have never seen a skimmer do what this one does. Well please advise me on what action I can take to help my Naso, if any. Thanks again for all your help.
<Again, the best course of action I can offer at this point is to keep a close eye on this guy...Keep the water extremely clean, and the environment stable, and feed the fish high quality food often...Hang in there. Regards, Scott F>

Naso tang problems
Hello, over the time of taking care of my fish I do a lot of research, reading books and message boards. And I have heard on the message boards from a lot of people that there Naso tangs do perfect for about 6 mos. and then suddenly they wake up and there Nasos are dead, I am one of these people as well. There are no disease signs, there perfect looking, until they croak. After my Naso died I asked my LFS about it, he said for the past year or so Nasos have been doin bad. He told me too about the 6 mos. problem with Nasos. He said he tries making big deals so he doesn't have a dead Naso in his store. Did you ever hear about this?
<Mmm, no definite time frame on these sorts of mysterious losses. Most of the Naso lituratus sold do die from being kept in too small a volume, size systems principally (starving is another large source of captive mortality)>
I want to try another Naso, is there any other way I can avoid losing another Naso. I think these fish are awesome. BTW my tank is 240 gallons, water quality great. Thanks!
<Please see here re selection: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm
Bob Fenner>

Freshwater Dips: Blackspot disease II 12/29/04
I actually had my security settings too high and it wasn't allowing me to search the site effectively. Not only did I find the information I was looking for but resources that I will return to for years!  Thanks so much for compiling and offering all of this insight.
<excellent to hear! You are quite welcome>
I did a freshwater dip on my Naso tang and am following up with quarantine and malachite green treatment and it already looks much better and is feeding well in the qt tank.  I will continue for three weeks in the qt and will then do another dip before returning it to my display tank. Thanks Again!
Elizabeth Turner
<A good rule of thumb is to release the specimen from QT only after 4 weeks of disease-free symptoms. kindly, Anthony>

Naso tang fin disease
First,,,, I wish I had found this site sooner, truly a wonderful source of expert opinion.  
<Our intention>
I have a juvenile Naso tang (lituratus) about 5-6 inches in length who for the past 3 months has had a frayed tail and ventral fins (fins look like they were partially eaten away and have a little bit of a rough white exudate on them).  
<Mmmm, should have "grown back" over this time... if suitable environment (size, tankmates...), nutrition available>
He looks great otherwise and eats like a champ.
<Eating what? "Breakfast of Champions?"... hopefully substantial amounts of brown, red, green algae...>
  My local fish store here in Hawaii recommended Melafix for the fin issue.  I had stepped up water changes without any change in the fin prior to trying the Melafix. I currently am on day 5 of the MelaFix treatment and wonder if I should finish out the 7 days or stop.  Does this sound like Ich and if so what treatment if any would you recommend?
<This homeopathic remedy I am NOT a fan of... has a mild anti-microbial effect... NOT useful on protozoan complaints>
I have a 125 gallon SW tank, which has been running for 5 months with great water quality.  Fish load is light with only a white spotted puffer, squirrel fish, blue damsel, and flame angel.  Everyone else looks great.
Thanks, Eric
<Try bolstering the Nasos diet with soaking it in a vitamin prep. (e.g. Selcon), offering soaked/dried algae with a clip at the water's surface. Bob Fenner> <<Mmm, should have suggested he go collect his own Limu, living in Hawai'i... RMF>>

Naso Tang with cloudy eyes (more: antibiotic use)
Hello all,
I have a customer with a Naso Tang that has stopped feeding and has cloudy eyes. All of their water parameters look good and this particular customer is very diligent in maintenance and feeding. I have never experienced this type of problem and honestly have rarely had to use antibiotics with any saltwater fish so I would be very appreciative if you could recommend any antibiotic or other course of treatment.
<May well be that this animal (especially if it is the only one thus affected in the system) just mechanically injured itself (ran into the sides, rock)... this happens with Naso tang species (need room)... and that there is no specific treatment advised, advisable... other than good maintenance practices, self-healing>
Also, if you could recommend particular antibiotics for treatment of various "common" bacterial type infections in saltwater fish I would be grateful. 
<There are none. Most all infectious diseases of ornamental aquatics are secondary, tertiary... opportunistic due to deficiencies in water quality, nutrition, battering by tankmates, the odd genetic anomaly... some antimicrobials like Furan compounds are efficacious as adjuncts to improving ones chances in improving conditions overall... in some cases dips/baths, feeding, injection (intramuscularly mainly) of antibiotics is something to be suggested... but the cases are few, specific>
In my years of keeping saltwater fish both as a hobbyist and now an LFS owner I really can't recall needing to use antibiotics so I feel a bit inept when asked how to treat these types of problems.
<Oh, agreed. This has been my experience, recollection as well. Bob Fenner>
Thanks, Richard

Re: Naso Tang with cloudy eyes (marine antibiotic use)
Thank you for the info. This is essentially what I have been advising
so I'll stick to it.
<Me too... have never experienced definitive proof of antibiotic benefits on a consistent basis... and recent works (e.g. Ed Noga, and I spoke w/ him re at MACNA XIII re)... other than expensive broodstock, and mainly trauma (as in spawning) incidents, direct injection... am of the opinion that such compounds mainly do "good" by modifying water chemistry (e.g. tetracycline hydrochloride lowering pH), perhaps reducing TBC's (total bacteria counts)...>
For whatever reason some customers seem to go on the defensive at the suggestion that they have water quality issues and are intent on buying something that will magically fix their problems.
<Bingo! Part of the/our "western ethic"... trained by Madison Ave. to "buy something"... perhaps we can, should sell "sugar pills"... oh, Weiss has beat us to the punch...>
The typical response is "I know my water is fine because it's perfectly clear"
<To which I typically respond "so is vinegar">
or the best one yet "I know it's not my water because I only use Ozarka and it's the best". Ah well, sometimes there isn't much you can say.
<Be yourself, state what you believe, know, simply. Ask questions like "what if you used distilled water" or only drank such yourself... ways to introduce, induce more open-mindedness. Reciprocally, maybe you're ready, in need of a holiday? Bob Fenner>
Thanks again, Richard

Naso Tang ... selection? - 2/11/2006
I bought a Blonde Naso Tang last week.  I bought him because the "expert" at the LFS said these were hardy fish and not particularly disease prone. <He's also a comedian too?> He also tested my water and told me it was fine, but I didn't ask the specific parameters.  He told me that he had been quarantining using a UV sterilizer for approximately 1 month. The Naso has been in my tank for 4.5 days.  I noticed two days ago that he has white spots on his fins.  The same "expert" at the LFS advised me to give him a bath in 2.5 gals of fresh water and 11 drops of formalin with an antibiotic in the water.  Is this the way to treat that? <I'd like to ask you a question first.  Why didn't you quarantine the fish before placing it in your tank?  This makes an effective treatment much easier.  Freshwater dips are usually the first stage in treatment.  Do google search our Wet Web site, keyword "freshwater dip".  You will find your info there.  I'm also hoping you have at least a 70 gallon tank for that guy for starters as they can attain a length of up to 8 inches and do require plenty of swimming room.  James (Salty Dog)>
Donna  

Re: Naso Tang   2/13/06
Thank you so much for your help.  <You're welcome.> I am fairly new to the saltwater hobby <Naso tangs are not a fish for newbies for sure.>
though I've been keeping freshwater fish for a few years.  I don't have a quarantine tank set up.  How many gallons should a quarantine tank be? And
how long should I quarantine fish? <Do read here.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm
James (Salty Dog)>

Naso With Balance Problems
>Dear Crew,
>>Hello Allyson.  You have Marina today, with my greatest apologies, I've just received your message in my inbox today and I sincerely hope it's not too late.
>I love my Naso like a child.  We've had him a few years and we bought him when he was approximately 6 inches long.  We were stupid.  It's too big a fish even for our 125 gallon tank.  He belongs in the reef.  Our water parameters have been stable for several years but tonight I'll check them again.  He's just looking out of sorts.  He frequently has a little ick in the mornings and the cleaner shrimps jump on him and it falls off by the end of the day.  He's a fussy eater and will only eat Tetra marine flakes and Caulerpa.  He eats these like a pig and the little guy is fat as a house.  He still eats OK.  There was a period a week ago when we skipped a meal for him (were away for 1 meal-we feed him a lot twice each day by hand).  The temperature dropped 3 degrees.  Our refugium where we raise Caulerpa and other macroalgae smelled bad and we changed most of the water.  It smells fine now.  I think the Caulerpa looked a bit unstable at the time but it's not sexual.  
>>If in doubt, prune it back heavily, being CERTAIN to remove by the full holdfasts, not just breaking off 'leaves'.
>During that time, for several days, the fish's yellow face turned dark and he did not swim as actively.  He barely ate.  We raised the temp to 80 and his face got yellower and he swims and eats more.  What is most disturbing is that since that time I see that he has trouble keeping himself upright slightly.  It's very slight but he'll swim sideways at times and I see he has his alerting colors on (he gets blotches when he's frightened).  
>>It seems you're taking the best care of him you can, but I believe he's simply outgrown the system and is displaying the stress (you've made no mention of his current dimensions).  This could explain the little bit of ich, the stress coloration, and possibly the 'balance' issues (swim bladder, possibly?  Fish have no inner ear).  He's definitely not growing old, these animals can live 20 years easily.
>He just seems a little clumsier.  He doesn't swim as fast or as agilely lately.  I'm trying to see if it's worsening but it's inconsistent.  He doesn't have any skin lesions and the ick is very slight and barely and occasionally visible.  I've tried hospital tanks with him but the conditions are so unstable in such a small tank, he does worse so I've given up trying to treat the ick.
>>Yes, also, treating him a hospital tank will do no good whatsoever if there are still other vertebrates in the system upon which the parasite can find a host.  The only way for hospitalization to be effective is for the main display to go fallow for a minimum of 6 weeks, though this often proves not to be long enough.
>I've done searches here and on reef central and I have not seen balance problems listed much.  The few times it was with new fish and they died soon after developing it.  I'm hoping he gets better and it was just a minor trauma/infection.  
>>You've listed no water parameters other than the temperature drop (amount), so I can't really offer much other than a guess and a mantra - when in doubt, do a water change.  This won't help him at all if the problem is simply that he's outgrown this system, but it will if, in spite of the presence of the 'fuge, there is a buildup of nitrate or other chemicals we cannot measure without a full laboratory at our disposal.  Even then, you might want to have an idea of what you're testing for.  You haven't mentioned how big the fish is now, but Nasos  grow rather large.  Water changes on a large scale will not hurt, and can both replenish lost compounds as well as remove buildups of others.
>We've also been administering Joes Juice to kill Majano so I wonder if that has something neurotoxic.  
>>Be VERY careful with that stuff!  From what I understand they do not list any ingredients (proprietary?), and I've read many posts on reefs.org of folks losing their shrimps after using Joe's Juice.  I have no idea of it has any neurological effect, this is such a new product and few are regulated in any manner.  If you were my customer I wouldn't have sold you this product, and I would now suggest you stop using it altogether.
>Bottom line, what could cause this?  A vitamin deficiency (he won't eat garlic, Selcon, or any other flake or food than that Tetra marine stuff)?  
>>Garlic won't provide vitamins or nutrition to fish (think about it, how often do fish get their nutrition from garlic in the wild?), but it has been proven to have a slight to moderate antibiotic effect.  The food he will accept can be soaked in Selcon prior to feeding, but you MUST be persistent.  Also, Nasos do like some meaty foods, have you offered him the irresistible krill?  Variety, especially with such a fish, is KEY.  He is behaving like a pet poodle, and you'll have to stand your ground when it comes to sampling different foodstuffs.  These fish can easily go several days without feeding - if he gets hungry enough, he WILL try it (assuming he's not actually ill, which I don't believe is the case at this point).
>A transient parasitic infection (maybe the ick got in his balance system)?  
>>Doubtful, I've not read of such mild infestations affecting an animal's balance.  If this were a problem you'd see flashing and rapid gilling, not just balance problems.
>What scares me is that this might be a buildup in the Caulerpa toxins.  
>>Possibly, but again, I do doubt this.  I didn't have a problem feeding C. taxifolia to my Z. flavescens, Z. scopas, or other tangs for several years.
>I give him a little bit each day as a treat.  He loves it.  (Won't eat any kind of Nori, broccoli, spinach, Sprung's sea veggies, lettuce, spinach, bok choy etc. for greens).  
>>Again, he will if he's hungry enough, and again, offer him some meaty foods.
>I decided to do this because this little guy has so few pleasures in our small tank, at least he should have that.  What was the toxin in Caulerpa so I can read about it?
>>This I cannot answer, try searching Anthony Calfo's writings (this is off the top of my head), assuming a general Google turns up nothing.
>Thanks, Allyson
>>You're welcome, Allyson.  At this point, my honest assessment is that the fish is demonstrating end result of too small a system.  I'm curious as to whether or not this animal has grown the tail 'streamers' for which they're noted, if not, this, along with the other symptoms you mention lead me to this initial conclusion.  Marina

Naso With Balance Problems - Happy Happy Joy Joy!
>Dear Crew,
>>Hello Allyson.
>Oh happy day!  My fish is slowly recovering with just good conditions!!!  
>>As nature intended.
>We raised the temp 3 degrees because we saw that was the major change associated with his poor health.  Immediately he looked happier (I think I mentioned this before).  
>>Yes, you did.
>Last night he greeted me at the door like he used to.  His swimming is slowly more agile.  He continues to eat like a pig and is as fat as a house.  
>>This is very good news, and remember my mantra!  When in Doubt, Do a Water Change!
>Untergasser's chart (a book on fish disease) on swim bladder has in his chart on swim bladder a few differentials.  At first all I saw was autopsy and I freaked.  
>>Yeah, well, there's only one way to get a postmortem.
>Now that I look at it more closely, the most likely diagnosis, given the outcome, is that wall of the air bladder was hardened and inflamed (treated by raising the water temp by 3 to 5 degrees for 5 days). Alternative diagnoses are pretty grim.
>>For a fish who's been in captivity for several years, yes, this is true.  
>At this point, there are several references to autopsies. The air bladder filled with purulent, bacteria-filled fluid-there are a few other presentations related to bacteria (refers to bacteria treatment chart).
>>And treatment would absolutely require use of a hospital system.  This *can* be done, but with a large fish it is not an inexpensive proposition.
>Cysts are in the wall of the air bladder. Inclusions in the wall of the air bladder (no treatment possible). Protozoans are in the kidney and bloodstream.
I discussed more details on Reefcentral, including a summary of Untergasser's bacterial treatment mash.
>>Yes, I've just read it.  Know this, you can go ahead and hypo the animal for ich, but as I said before, if you don't remove ALL vertebrate life, the ich will not be gone from that system.  It's far better at this point to provide best conditions and nutrition.  Know also that garlic is only proved effective as a mild antibiotic, empirical evidence claims appetite stimulation.  My assertion is that if a fish is given proper quarters, best water quality and nutrition, nature shall do what she does best and the animal(s) will thrive.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3795821#post3795821 <please hyperlink!>
Thanks for your thoughtful response.  Please spread the word about this rare
phenomenon.  Allyson
>>Through you, we shall!  Thanks for the follow-up, too, Allyson.  I felt terrible thinking that your message had been sitting and it might have been too late.  I am VERY pleased that your pet is back on the road to recovery and a long life.  Marina

Re: Naso Tangs. . . (more to fish health, knowing and the nature of the human experience)
One more question if you don't mind. . . how will I know when it's time to move the Naso to a larger tank? Will he start acting unhappy? Signs of limited swimming, loss of appetite, etc.?
<These behavioral changes are hard to discern, but yes, all the above>
Also, off the current subject, I am just very frustrated and don't know where to turn. I love your website but frankly, I'm very new to this hobby (only about 9 months) and I don't know a lot about what I read. . .some of it is very confusing and hard to understand. So, where can I go to get some basic knowledge to help me understand and grow into learning this hobby?
<Though it is supposedly shame-faced to do so, I will plug a worthwhile general (beginner-oriented) book on marine aquarium keeping of which I am the author: The Conscientious Marine Aquarist. Available from e-tailers, the large book-sellers, fish shops. Very worthwhile>
Frustration also exists in the fact that there are so many conflicting opinions. For instance, last night I noticed a small spot on my maroon clown's fin that looked like fin rot. I went to your website and found basically conflicting opinions (in the chat room) regarding Melafix and Maracyn. These are the only two medicines that I know of at all. I decided to use Melafix (because it seemed to be a safer, more natural product and the fin rot is minimal) but then this morning searched the WetWebMedia and found where you say you don't recommend it so now I feel like I've done something horrible. 
<Mmm, not horrible... Understand the nature of our sites as mere extensions of related human experience... There are many (different) humans, hence opinions... And that "aquariology" is not altogether a "science", but art and "voodoo" as well... Embrace and revel in these differences (really).>
What should I have done for the maroon clown (have I hurt the other fish in the tank that are not showing signs of fin rot?)
 <I would likely have "done nothing" if just the one fish affected, one spot...> 
and where can I go to get GOOD, solid information on treatment of diseases?
<There are books on the subject (see Ed Noga's name on the Google Search), but with some general understanding of what diseases are ("The Three Sets of Factors..."), and good practice at picking out proper species, good specimens, some simple dip/bath and quarantine procedures, decent nutrition, regular aquarium maintenance, you are unlikely to need to know much or anything about "disease">
I trust you, Mr. Fenner, from all of the things I've heard and the books that you've written you are one of the few that I would trust. I just wish you could give out your phone number! :) When it's 10:00 p.m. and you don't know what to do for your fish it's frustrating! Please help and give me some guidance if possible. I apologize for being so longwinded but I just am at my wit's end. I love my fish and want to take the best care of them but I can't find a solid guideline to help me. Is there a book that you've written that's kind of a catch all for everything?
<Ah, yes. TCMA>
Thanks for your help! I appreciate you so much.
<Glad to help my friend. Try to "step back" and enjoy your experience, even the apparent frustration, un-knowing... all will become clearer with time, experience, study, reflection, you'll see. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso Tangs. . .
Thanks so much for your words of encouragement. And, no, it's not "shame-faced" to recommend your book -- I'm going to purchase it right now and am sure it will be a tremendous help!
<Ahh, know you will enjoy, gain by the experience>
In your opinion would you stop the Melafix treatment and just watch the maroon clown for a couple of days? 
Or, would it be ok to continue the treatment through? It's an herbal remedy so can it really hurt anything?
<I would hold off on further application. You could add a cleaner organism, supplement all the animals feedings with vitamins, other supplements, but likely all is/will be fine w/o the Melafix>
Isn't fin rot rare in saltwater -- I thought it was mainly a fresh water disease so maybe I have misdiagnosed? 
<Lots of possibilities... "fin rot" as in fungal or bacterial involvement in marine systems is very rare as a "first order" involvement... these decomposing events are almost always a result of system "collapse", post-death...>
None of her fin is missing it just looks a line as been drawn across her fin and from that line down (just a small portion) is brown and looks thin. She still uses it and it's not folded to her side or anything. I don't think any other fish are "picking" on her. . . she holds her own quite well and seems very happy (not hiding or anything).
She also does something that I don't know if it's normal for clowns or not...she takes her tail and whips it around in the sand making a big sand storm (she only does this in the evening though) -- she just recently (a month or so) starting doing this. . . is this normal especially since there is no anemone in the tank for her? What is she doing?
<Please read over the WWM site re Anemones and Clowns: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clwnfshanefaqs.htm >
Thanks for letting me bother you again. . . you must really love this hobby to put up with ALL of our questions! :) Take care.
<For love of the planet, our species, myself am glad to share. You will do the same. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso Tangs. . .
Hello again. . .one more quick question if you don't mind. I took your advice and decided to stop the Melafix treatment. However, Monday when I had administered the Melafix I had obviously turned off the skimmer. Last night I turned the skimmer back on and it went crazy. It pumped out constantly and never seemed to stop. After about two gallons I decided to turn it off. Should I use some carbon (ChemiPure) to get the Melafix out and leave the skimmer off for two or three days?
<A good idea, yes>
Would this be harmful to my fish? 
<No, more beneficial>
I just administered one dose (10 teaspoons of the Melafix) so it should be out in a few days, right?
<Not necessarily... the skimmer is/has removed quite a bit, the activated carbon will remove most all remaining>
Also, regarding the vitamins. . . should I be giving them vitamins (VitaChem) as regular routine or only once in a while or when needed?
<Yes, once a week to the water, as often as you'd like to their foods>
Thank you so much for your help! Have a wonderful day!!!! By the way, bought your book and love it! :) Loving this hobby again thanks to you!
Elizabeth
<A pleasure my friend. Life to you. Bob Fenner>

Rapid Gill pumping....
Bob, or who-ever is kind enough to respond to my dilemma:
<Anthony Calfo in your service>
About a week ago I decided to add a small Blonde Naso Tang to my 90 gallon aquarium. 
<already sounds like an "I didn't quarantine my fish and now they have a disease" story...<wink>. Critical to QT my friend>
He's around 6 inches in length. Today I noticed that his breathing seemed very irregular. The irregularity is just this; his gill pumping seems quite excessive. Earlier today I performed a small water change, around 10 gallons.  I didn't think that this would cause any kind of trauma to the fish in the tank. 
<did the rapid gilling commence abruptly with the water change?>
I do this on a weekly basis. After taking some readings I recorded a level of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 10 ppm nitrate, and a specific gravity of about 1.022. The ph level has been pretty constant at around 8.0-8.1.
<pH is definitely low if that is a daytime reading (pH falls even lower at night) Target 8.3-8.6...but still it would not cause the rapid gilling>
His behavior doesn't seem out of the ordinary, at least for what I have been able to notice from the last six days. He swims all over the tank, but doesn't seem to pace. He is eating quite a bit. 
<all good signs indeed>
In fact it was after his last feeding that I noticed the increased gill pumping. 
<yes... usually a bit after a big feeding but relaxes shortly afterward (hours)>
I tried to count how many pumps per minute occurred, but I couldn't keep up with him. It is well above 100 beats per minute by my count. 
<while respiration varies among fishes, 100 per second is fast enough to be concerned and to be on the look out for signs of parasitic infection or other pathogenic cause. Do review quarantine tank set up and procedure in preparedness of a medication treatment if necessary. You will almost never want to medicate the main display (many reasons... again, review FAQs in archives)>
I haven't seen any change in his tank mate, a small Passer angel.
<very good>
Any ideas....advice? Thanks in advance, Michael Mariani
Let's hope he is alive to hear what you have to say.......
<continue with stable water quality, good feeding and water changes. You may try a slightly lower salinity to improve levels of dissolved oxygen if nothing else (.001-.002 daily drop until 1.018 SG). Please spend your next $100 on a QT setup instead of another fish <wink>... it saves money and lives. Anthony

Brown/Black spots on tang
I have a problem with the tank and am not sure what to do. My LFS recommends using Greenex but I have read of awful "happenings" using this stuff on your website. It doesn't sound like you recommend it.
<cure or kill solution... usually the latter>
I went home for lunch today and my Naso Tang has very light brown/black spots all over him. It does not resemble black ich. They are not round spots. It's hard to explain. . . never seen anything like it before. I tested the water and it is perfect. He is acting fine -- eating well and swimming. What should I do? Do you recommend anything to try or just watch it for a day or so? No other fish show these signs. . . I'm at a loss. Please help. . . .
<sounds like Turbellid worms. Hard to cure but slow to kill fish. A bare QT tank for 2-4 weeks with formalin and occasional freshwater dips would be best for this before it spreads to other fish (mostly tangs, butterflies and angels)>
Thanks!
<quite welcome. Anthony>

Naso Relapse...
Anthony,
I have a feeling I'm going to wear out my welcome, 
<no worries, my friend>
but unfortunately I am in need of some advice yet again. I used the search option on your web page but could find very little info about my new problem. If you remember we have been going back and forth about my blonde Naso, which became ill over the weekend. Well since the transport into a QT, and subsequent treatment with Greenex which started on Monday, his ich cleared up, his appetite increased and the gilling ceased. In fact he was looking very good, up until last night. The ich has come back, which isn't a big problem I was expecting that. 
<indeed>
The new problem is that the poor guy now has cloudy eyes. To be exact it looks like there is a kind of film which has coated the eye. Also he refused food, both last night and this morning. 
<secondary infection or response to the aggressive Greenex treatment>
I searched on WetWebMedia.com for any articles relating to this. Really all I found were articles relating to exopthalmia, which he definitely doesn't have. There is zero swelling around the eyes.
<agreed>
I set up the quarantine tank using water from the main display. So my thinking is that whatever was in the main display, to cause his sickness in the first place, is still there making him sick. 
<the water was appropriate... the fish is immuno-compromised and brought it in on his, er... person>
I was hoping that treatment would help this. Could this be a side infection, initiated by the ich weakening his immune system? 
<either or both>
Is this yet another type of protozoan infection? Is there anything I can do, outside of a quick water change, to aide him? Should I do anything?
<I still rank freshwater dips above all including Greenex>
I realize this is a lot of questions. But since I'm not out of the woods yet, I was hoping you could help point the way.
<no trouble... a common problem. Naso may still be quite fine in a week. Easy on that Greenex please. It is cure or kill.>
Thank you, Michael Mariani
<best regards, Anthony>

Ich, another parasite, or stress???
I recently purchased a Naso tang that appears to Ich, but I'm not sure (I'm new to this). The Tang had a few white spots which now only really appear when the fish turns a darker shade of grey. What concerns me is that it now has some white patches on it, as if it has been scratching. I have started to treat it in a separate tank with Melafix and CopperSafe, I have also given it a fresh water dip. I have noticed that it has not eaten anything
in several days. Is there anything else I can do? Thanks, Kyle
<Maybe. I would lower the specific gravity and stop the Melafix. Please read over the ich, treatment, tang, tank troubleshooting... sections of our site: www.WetWebMedia.com, starting here: http://wetwebmedia.com/tanktroubleshting.htm
Bob Fenner>

Re: Ich, another parasite, or stress???
Thanks.....I am new to saltwater tanks and have been informing myself as quickly as possible through websites and local fish stores. Regretfully the Naso didn't make it and the specific gravity is really high, so I'm slowly going to lower that. Thanks for the help and all the info on the webpage.
<Mmm, good to learn through as many inputs as practical... be chatting Bob Fenner>

Re: pls tell me your are online... (Naso demise)
So far he is still alive.... 5 and a half hours after the move....
I also moved the cleaner wrasse into the hospital with him. The cleaner has been picking at Naso almost none stop. Naso even has ich inside his mouth.... He opens his mouth really wide... I guess wanting wrasse to
clean inside there.
<Hopefully>
I am doing the SeaChem Cupramine treatment... I did a test and it is at 0.15 for now.... I will continue to test and adjust as needed (hopefully)
<Good>
THE PLAN:
I will not buy more fish for the rest of the year.....
<Let's not go that far>
I will however get a Neon Goby and maybe a fourth cleaner shrimp.
I am considering dropping the Salinity if another fish shows symptoms.
<I would do this pre-emptively. Like starting NOW>
If not should I drop it anyway?
<Yes>
If I can afford it should I get another tank for fish only and move all the fish over there for treatment or just to simply let the tank fallow for a few months?
<The former is better>
Would a 55 gallon be enough for a purple tang, yellow tang, 6 line wrasse, Percula clown, scooter blenny and a Naso I hope?
<Yes>
Does a FO tank require more than natural light?
<No, not for treatment purposes. No photosynthetic life, no need for extra lighting>
Or is that not necessary if no other fish show symptoms?
<The system and its occupants do have the disease, whether they are currently showing symptoms or no... your situation is "in-between stages of infestation"... study the life history of Cryptocaryon... as time goes by (just a few days) you will start to evidence "multi-generational stages"...>
The ich would then be considered in check with the current cleaner crew?
<Possibly... but if/when "balance" shifts to the worsening of conditions for your fish livestock/hosts... Bob Fenner>

Re: pls tell me your are online...
OK.... now to implement the SG drop.... Easy concept but what is the best way? Is there a formula for adding a percentage of change water with NO salt that will drop the SG by .001 a day?
<Just an "eye ball" approximation of a proportionality... current water volume to remove, replace with just freshwater...>
Should the Hydro meter say 1.017 or do I have to be really precise and look up the temp variations and such to get the exact salinity?
<Hmm, not necessary to be that close to real salinity.>
Thank you ever so much for your support my friend :)
<You are welcome. Anima bona fac (Lingua Latina for "be of good life"). Bob Fenner>

Ich Life Cycle,,, adventures of Naso
Hey Bob,
I read about the Ich cycle a bit more and came across some info about the Cyst encased in gelatin stage....
<Yes>
I believe I saw one a long time ago....
<Not visible to the "naked eye">
I thought that it was just mucus released by one of the corals....
So could this have been a Cyst at the bottom of my tank? It is/was about 1/2 an inch in diameter max. Is it safe to suck it out during a water change every time I see one? I have seen one on 2 separate occasions.... about 2 weeks ago and say 5 weeks ago....Knowledge.... there is no substitute.....
Again your guidance is very appreciated, Robert
PS. Do the cleaner shrimp eat ich in the Tomite stage or cyst stage?
<They consume the encysted stages minimally (and necrotic tissue, mucus...) on the fish hosts only. Bob Fenner>

Re: adventures of Naso
DOH!!!
<No more Simpson's for you>
I am getting used to the type of contradictions.... I hate that I had to learn the hard way like most people.
<Not necessary, as you know>
Found this... they say not good for reefs.... I am still in your camp... they gave no reasons WHY!!!
Hyposalinity- This treatment cannot be done in a reef tank with invertebrates, live sand or live rock. Hyposalinity is at 16ppt, is highly effective at eliminating ich and surprisingly low stress. . This may be the best therapy as it is not a dip but rather a long-term bath that should last a minimum of three weeks. The treatment is more effective (although copper can be very effective) and less stressful than copper treatments. The only two disadvantages to using hyposalinity verses copper is an accurate hydrometer is need (or refractometer is even better) and you need to check the pH and alkalinity daily and add buffer as needed. Most hydrometers are inaccurate. You need one calibrated for reef temps and some large glass types are O.K. Stay away from plastic swing arm hydrometers they are not often accurate. Hyposalinity will NOT disrupt the biological filtration as long as the salinity is not lowered too abruptly. If you lower the salinity using two water changes a day for two days the bio-filter will be fine. The bacteria that perform biological filtration are the same in FW or SW all you have to do is acclimate them to the change When you are ready to introduce your fish raised the salinity back up to normal over the course of a few days to keep the fish from stressing from a quick change in salinity.
<Some factual, other fictional material... Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang
Quick question. Today I noticed that my Naso tang was breathing really heavy and was not eating. The other fish look to be doing fine and so do the xenia, mushrooms, and buttons. Checked the water parameters and everything seems fine. I am running a skimmer in the sump and two power heads in the tank so they should be getting enough oxygen. Don't know what to do? Please give me some suggestions
<the fish may be showing the early stages of a serious parasite infection that has started in the gills. Please consult our section on Wet Web Media on quarantine tanks for preparedness. If this fish needs medication it will need to be done in a QT tank to be effective and to spare poisoning your biological filter and calcareous media. Best regards, Anthony>

Re: Naso
Okay here is the new situation I was feeding my tang from a droplet. When I took him out I noticed his vent was very swollen I pushed on his stomach
gently and something started to come It looked like jelly I looked a little closer and saw that it had a tiny vein so I stopped pushing. I don't know what it was I didn't look like excretion or a worm. I was thinking maybe it was his bladder and its so swollen that he can't release himself. Just a theory I wanted to run this by you maybe it is not a worm. If my theory is correct what course of action should I take to resolve this if their is any.
If I'm wrong what is your opinion.
<Just this fish's distended alimentary system>
Also about the Epsom salt
1/2 saltwater
1/2 freshwater
2 table spoons of Epsom salt per gallon
I have done that 3 days ago for 10 minutes as a dip. You told me only once would work, can we rule out blockage? Thanks always appreciate your quick response.
<Hopeful this fish will eat on its own soon. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso
I know by now you are probably annoyed with me. I have been reading all the articles on your web page about internal parasites and worms. From the vent of my fish seems there is something hanging out very little at first this is why I thought the fish was constipated but after reading your web page over and over and doing searches for internal parasites I have come to a conclusion that my fish has some sort of worm. Don't know which one but my fish is not eating and his stomach is getting bigger on the side it looks like their are 2 pointy things pushing from the inside almost looks as
thought they are going to go through his skin close to his vent. I don't know what it is but I'm assuming it is either some type of bone being pushed from the inside out. My fish is getting larger and I feel that it is just the parasite getting larger I know my fish isn't eating I stare at him all day.
<Not a bone... the condition, ascites, can be due to a few causes... intercellular, parasitic...>
If this is an internal parasite your web site is saying their is nothing that can be done. Which is telling me that sooner or later my fish is going to die? 
<Mmm, sooner or later all life ceases...>
Is their anything I can do to get rid of the parasite some type of home remedy or store bought item that can be force feed to him? Please help me out I have been reading for the past 3 days.
<There are anthelminthics, vermifuges... like di-n-butyl tin oxide, Piperazine... are these appropriate here? I would just use the MgSO4 treatment suggested... Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso
I'm sorry but I forgot to mention the sometimes shakes kind of like he is saying no to the food. currently I'm feeding him formula 2 flakes Is this good) and sometimes he eats small pieces of krill that I feed my dogface. Should I try feeding him something else. Sorry for being a pain.
<Please read over all the articles, FAQs posted on our site (www.WetWebMedia.com re the family of Tangs/Doctors, Surgeonfishes. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso
I'm not sure if he has a bacterial infection. I was just reading about parasites swelling up fish stomachs and it was treated with antibiotics. 
<No my friend. Just as likely to cause troubles. Surgeonfishes have microfauna in their stomachs that they absolutely need>
I just want to know what step I should do first I really like my tang I don't want him to go into shock by treating him the wrong way. No matter what I do I consult you or your website first. You are an aquarium guru.
<Do try the Epsom. Good luck, life to you. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso
I did like you said I used half a gallon of freshwater and half saltwater
from my tank with two table spoons of Epsom salt. I tested my water and the readings were as follows.
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 10
pH - 8.4
ammonia - 0
Gravity - 1.023
Should I proceed with these dips once a day or is this one time enough?
<Once should do it>
When should I start to rule out that its not constipation? The tang has not eaten for almost a week I would think his immune system is going to start to weaken and be prone to disease which is something no hobbyist wants. I have read up on the tang from your web page and have gained much information on them along with a dogface that I purchased.
<Could be many other things afflicting this one specimen... looking like "constipation"... none of which are "treatable" in the short term. Hopeful/ly your Naso will resume feeding on its own. Force feeding this genus is generally unproductive, but worth considering... Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso
How would I go about force feeding? 
<Some details of this procedure posted on "Lions FAQs": http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionfaqs1.htm>
Is this normal for this species? 
<Not normal to be constipated... very typical to starve, die from stress from various traumas (mainly being in too small volumes, capture, shipping/handling...), nutritional disorders due to poisoning/loss of beneficial gut fauna...>
Can it be signs of some type of disease in its early stage that can be treatable? Is it possible for the tang to be constipated for some long?
<Don't think your tang is constipated my friend. This family of fishes can/does pass large amounts of living and not material with ease in the wild and captivity... Strongly suspect "the problem" is something else. Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso
Bob I sent you an email yesterday concerning my Naso tang that has not eaten in 3-5 days but yet his stomach is swollen. I have been observing the fish it looks like he is trying to go to the bathroom but he is not able to push out the excretion. Do fish get constipated?
<Yes they do>
Is their anything I should do or just wait it out I appreciate your responses. Thank you
<I might well try an extended dip/bath in diluted seawater (the system and half freshwater) and two tablespoons of Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) per gallon for ten minutes... might well "do the trick". Please read here re such procedures first: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
Bob Fenner>

Re: Naso
Do you think I should try an antibiotic solution in the water and when he starts eating put it in the food.
<What for? Antibiotics are either for so-called secondary bacterial infections (almost always due to poor water quality, subsequent trauma) or to improve water quality to hasten cures otherwise, prevent further infection... Do you know that your fish has a bacterial involvement? Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang
Hello,
Recently got a Naso Tang.. it has white spots on it.. person at LFS said it is because the tang is scared. Is that something that really happens when they're just stressed, or should I be worried?
<Mmm... I would be concerned... the white spots... are they "raised" in appearance? Transitional, or are they on the fish all day? Any other fishes showing signs? Likely the beginning of an ich infestation. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm going on to the links beyond as your interest, need leads you. Bob Fenner>
Lisa H.

Naso Tangs
have a couple of fish that have white spots on there body. I have a 110 gal reef tank. I set up a 6 gal hospital tank to treat the 2 fish that showed signs of these spots "ick" 1 Blue Hippo Tang and 1 Naso Tang. The Naso Tang didn't have as many spots as the Blue Hippo but when I put them both in the tank after about 1 hour the Naso started to fling everywhere in the tank and just croaked. This was very upsetting. My Local fish store told me to set up the hospital tank and treat it with copper and place the fish in the hospital tank. They told me to do the follow. 1/Take water out of main tank to fill the hospital tank 2/Add copper to hospital tank and bring to level .20 ppm (after some reading I was a little unsure about the ppm level so I put it at .10-.13 ppm just to be safe) The blue hippo has been in the hospital tank for 24 hours now and doing ok. I also have 3 Percula true clowns now showing the white spots on there body as well as gasping very quickly for air. I am unsure whether I am missing something here as to I am very new to Marine Aquariums and never dealt with any diseases. I am afraid to put these little guys in the hospital tank because I don't want them to die just like the Naso did. I know that ick is 2-3 week moving parasite on the host so I wanted to wait and get a response from you on how to proceed, or what I need to change. These guys normal diet is frozen-live brine shrimp, romaine lettuce (for tangs) and Marine Flake Food. My system uses a Wet/Dry Trickle filtration system and as a SeaClone Skimmer also.
Any help as soon as possible would be appreciated, as to I don't like to see these poor things pass away. Its just really sad.
<<Who can say why the Naso reacted so negatively to the procedure... these species do not enjoy small systems... a six gallon is very tiny to them... I would have suggested a higher initial concentration of free copper... more like .35ppm and never letting the residual drop below .20... I would move the damsels, all other fishes and treat them together... Do read over the "ich" pieces on the site: Home Page regarding what to do with your main system going forward... And do develop and adhere to an acclimation protocol going forward to prevent having these problems.
Bob Fenner>>

Black spot (markings on a Naso Tang)
Bob, Just to confirm. I'm pasting your description below. Yesterday, we had what looked like tiny white spots that disappeared and moved around like bubbles just in front of the lower/ventral fin. Now it looks like a fine black powder on the ventral/bottom fin of our Naso tang. If this is "black spot" you suggest fresh water dip. It doesn't look like a worm (I think someone called it a small ciliated protozoan?) Dakin says it can spread to the gills and they can suffocate. How long do we have before this happens? 
<What? Do you have access to a microscope? I would scrape off some of these "black spots" and take a closer look... they are not ciliated protozoans (e.g. ich)... these are too small to see with the "naked eye"... and moving about?>
The fish is visiting the cleaner shrimp (they don't look too interested). Perhaps this will go away? It's weird because within the first hour the fish was awake, it looks like some of it has disappeared (not all of it). It always seems that diseases are worse in the morning...is that because the cleaner shrimp pick things off during the day?
Treatment:
Freshwater dip: adjust pH (w/baking soda), temp, truly FRESH water or should we just have a slightly lower specific gravity (e.g.1.019)?
Additives to dip: Copper we've got Cupramine--what concentration?.2?)--perhaps some Methylene blue? Formalin? Do any of
these things interact? If we have to choose, which is the most useful and least toxic to the fish? 2-10 minutes? Should the black spot disappear during this time? Should we just do it for 10 min or as long as the fish can tolerate? I suspect he'll freak out regardless.--some aeration Should 1 dip suffice? We've been getting Caulerpa and trying to grow it from a friend's tank. Do you think that might have transported it? He's got a yellow tang but it looked great. 
One notable exception is Para vortex, the causative agent of "black spot disease", notably of yellow tangs. This is easily eliminated via freshwater dipping, though other authors suggest formalin baths and organophosphate remedies. Turbellarians, a group in the flatworm Phylum Platyhelminthes are mostly "free-living" non-parasitic species. 
Thanks, Allyson
<This is not Paravortex... on a Naso Tang... maybe a trematode/fluke... I wouldn't necessarily "treat it" unless symptomatically this condition seemed to be seriously negatively impacting this animals behavior. Bob Fenner>

Sick Naso
Hey Bob,
This is a new one to me. I have had him for almost 4 years. Has had symptoms for about 6 days. Symptoms:
not feeding partial cloudy eye (getting a little better) color changes from very dark to normal listless (except for occasional swim) when swimming, bumps into rocks and corals seems like he is blind.
possible poisoning? some kind of internal parasite?
<Maybe... but more likely a bad "bump" in the night... the tank top or side... do try a water change, offering some Nori sheet algae on a plastic clip...>
This fish stresses real bad when moved so I have not moved him yet. Not sure what to treat for so nothing drastic right now. Any help would be
appreciated . Thanks
<Agreed re the moving... don't. Do try to be patient, and offer the algae, do the water change... Bob Fenner>

Sick Tang?
Hey,
My Naso Tang is a little red around the gills. He is eating well and acting normal. The water is at about 1.023 but I changed my water yesterday and before then it was at 1.018. The ammonia is at 0 and there are slight traces of nitrites. Is this a natural thing or is he sick. Also, I lost 2 turbo snail this week. I think it was do to my salinity being low but I'm not sure because I'm new at the invertebrate game. Thank You, Jonathan Pac
<Yowzah... this specific gravity change is way too fast... about one thousandth a day is maximum... Be careful that you haven't depopulated your beneficial nitrifying bacteria here... and take things much slower henceforth... otherwise you'll have more than a Nasos red gill covers.

Re: Sick Tang?
Hey,
Well the tang died. I am going to wait a week or two before I buy another fish. The only problem is that I don't know what to add. I have a 55 gallon tank with 40 lbs of live rock, protein skimmer, and a UV sterilizer. I have a flame angel fish, a pair of clown fish, and a royal gamma. What should I add next? Thanks For Your Help, Jonathan Pac
<Sorry to hear of your loss... Do wait a good two weeks... and consider another, more suitable species of tang... an exhaustive review of all can be found on the WWM site, as well as a giant re-do of marine livestock selection en toto. Bob Fenner>

Re: confused-urgent ich problem
Dear Bob,
When we put the little Naso back in his home tank, he continued to look better and the next morning his dark spots were barely there. He still looks good. We called all over town and found a few cleaner shrimps. I wanted them anyway and I hope they can avoid becoming an expensive lunch for the hermits. 
<Yes, they should be able to co-exist... unless you have "mean" species of Hermits... and/or both are hungry...>
I love that little Naso (not so little). He's amazingly intelligent. I hand fed him Sunday as much as he would not spit out while he was in the copper tank. Now he eats out of my hand reliably. After yesterday, though, he turns distress colors when he sees the net. I hope I can win his trust back.
<You will>
Thanks for all the replies. People tell us getting a UV filter will prevent this. 
<No... a myth>
Now I'm just hoping the shrimp and fish "bond". By the way, your web site is an excellent source of info. (I would expect nothing less given that your book was so wonderful).
<Ahh, thank you>
I can't help it. I love this fish. Thanks again, Allyson
<Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner>

Naso Troubles
Thanks for the quick response! I apologize for asking another (unrelated) question, so soon on the heels of the last one, but I forgot to ask it last
time. I have a Naso tang who seems to be wasting away. A friend took care of all of my fish for a few months, while I was in between tanks. When I got them back a month ago, they all seemed to be a bit on the thin side, but most have come back nicely. The Naso, however, seems to look worse. He seems interested in food, and vigorously attacks the sushi Nori that I feed every day, but he spits out whatever he chews. He does seem to keep all of the frozen and flake foods down. Is this something that you're familiar with? Can you suggest anything? Thanks again, Dan
<Yes. Do try other "human intended" (especially Rhodophyte, Red Algae (though they'll likely look green...) species like Rhodymenia, Gracilaria... and soak all in Selcon (or other vitamin prep.s like Zoecon, Microvit...) a good fifteen minutes before offering them to your Naso... and some meaty foods you can suspend on a "feeding spoon" near the surface... Bob Fenner>

Fast Breathing Naso
I have a Naso Tang that has started to "breath" very fast for about two weeks now. Believe it or not I think it is the result of a Picasso Trigger that I had in my 125 gallon tank (he is gone now). The Picasso harassed everyone in the tank. The Tang developed parasites so I treated the whole tank with copper (just to prevent other fish from becoming infected) and put him into a 20 gallon hospital tank with Paragon II where he has been for the last four days. Nothing appears to be helping the breathing. Any other suggestions?
<<Yes Michael, let time go by without further stressing the Naso. These are highly active fish that take a beating with being moved, treated, and harassed... and the trials you describe have done a few things that will take a while to "heal". For one, fishes have much higher hematocrit (packed cell volume, or concentration of cells to plasma) than humans... all the moving, beating and the copper have reduced the animals cell count (dangerously). Add to this that fishes live in an environment of a few (up to seven or eight) ppm of dissolved oxygen (versus 200,000 ppm plus in the stuff we're "swimming" around in) and you can see why the fish can't "catch its breath"! Don't disturb the animal any more than absolutely necessary and it will come back. Bob Fenner>>

New Naso
Good to write you again which must mean I have a problem. Actually it is more of asking a question to prevent the spread of a problem, if it is a problem that is. Anyway, the problem is that I have just purchased a Naso tang 3 days ago, and up to 2 days he looked great and acted great. He eats like a pig and enjoys swimming and looking the whole tank over, normal stuff ya know. Anyway, last night I noticed that around the inside of his orange lips it looked like he had a layer of white mucus like crap. Like someone had stuck a white rubber ring on the inside of his lips. As the day went on and the fish went picking and eating algae off the rocks he just generally rubbed the white filmy crap off. 
So I thought that was the end of it, since it has not stopping his eating. I forgot to mention, when I first received the fish it looked like it had some slight pickings at its fins that are on its sides next to it's gills, sorry I can't remember the fin name <pectorals>. I didn't think anything of it, I have had fish come in like that before, I just figured he was getting a little bit of bothering, but what fish doesn't every now and then, and I figured it would heal up in a week or so. Anyway, come this morning the film was back around the mouth and now the picked edges of his fins had some white film on them too. I thought maybe his eye looked like it was starting to cloud a bit but I could be wrong so disregard that statement. Anyway, do you have any ideas what this could be, if it is anything? I was thinking maybe a bacterial parasite of some sort. The only reason I hope it is this is because the only other disease that I have seen that looks like this is a microsporidean infection, and if it is that I am a goner, or at least the fish is. But I really don't think it is that. if it is a parasitical infection how should I treat it? I have been told different ways. Some people tell me that a fresh water dip will cure it, bad thing is I don't know how long to dip them, you could help me with that. The other is a long bath in Methylene blue. So your help is greatly appreciated and needed, thank you. John Moyer
<<I don't think there is actually anything wrong with your Naso (lituratus) Tang... what you describe is likely "just" some sort of mucus that the animal is producing in reaction to being handled, and healing... And I would not net and dip it... not worth the stress and damage from the dip procedure itself... Keep feeding and enjoying the animal...Bob Fenner>>

Naso Not so Good
Hello
<Hi, Ryan here>
I have a Naso tang (lituratus) with streamers and he is not eaten since a couple of days, I have checked water parameters and they are all fine (still did a water change) except the ph that was about 7.8 I raise it to 8.1over a two day period ,the thing is yesterday the fish had ate a little bit not as much that normally eat!!!!( had not eat for two, tree days before that )and now today he stopped again and I notice that is lips are white (like a fungus or something covering the lips ) and he is staying on the top part of the tank all he other fish are fine and healthy and eating fine .?????????
<Hi.  A change in pH from 7.8 to 8.1 can have negative effects on sensitive livestock.  I recommend you start to buffer your pH (sounds like you already are), and add something to stabilize your calcium and alkalinity.  B-Ionic is simple as pie.  As for feeding, I would try and offer some frozen Formula 2 and Nori.  The white lips you are describing is probably a sign of a bacterial infection.  Is this a new fish?  I would take him out, isolate him and treat with a Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone medication, and follow the directions to the T.  Good luck, Ryan>
I am starting to freak out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! don't want to loose that fish !!! how many time can they stay without eating ?
Would like to have any help or advice you think might help
Thanks

Naso Tang in Trouble pt. 2
Good morning, sorry to bother you but I searched your website and believe I found the disease affecting my Naso tang but not positive. <Hello, Ryan with you on the follow-up> On one email to question, you suggested it might be Turbellid worms. <Nasty business> I have had this Naso for about 3 weeks. <So he's still being quarantined?> Just in a few days did the dark spots appear all over its body. I've seen black ich and it didn't look like that at all.  The spots almost look as if they are under the skin. <Good perception> The Naso is nowhere near as aggressive as the other fish in the tank when it comes to eating. <I see he's in your display...Sadly, the others are also at risk, certainly because we're not sure what we're dealing with> He eats very little and only gets what falls to the bottom that other fish. <Nori?> I thought at first he was lethargic from not getting enough to eat but after the spots appeared, I knew it had to be some type of infection. <Certainly> I don't expect him to survive after looking at him this morning, he looked too weak to do any type of freshwater dip.  The other fish in the tank, small trigger, coral beauty, yellow tang and clownfish seem to be fine and are eating quite well.  <You need to get this fish in a quarantine tank- The other may die from this>
What can I do to keep the other fish from getting it? <See above> He was the only one acting strange no other marks on any of the other fish. <Don't get comfortable yet> They are all eating quite well and active.  I did treat the tank this morning w/ Greenex just so
the yellow tang and others would not stress and get ich. <I would refrain from medicating your display tank, and only medicate in quarantine.  Why force fish to undergo medication when they're healthy?  Medicate the sick, leave the healthy ones alone> What should I do? <See above>
Don't want to lose the other fish but as I said they all seem fine now.
Does raising the temperature of the tank help kill parasites? <Yes, but you'll kill your fish before the parasites.  Leave the tank temperature constant.  Healthy immune systems is the best defense for your fish at this point- Healthy fish are well fed, active and live in a stable environment.> Should I treat the tank with medication to prevent the worms if indeed that is what it is from spreading to the other fish. <Treat in quarantine> As I said, I've seen numerous
diseases and never have seen this before other than on a previous Naso tang. <Yes, many nasty things can gain entry into a host during the stresses of shipping.  For this reason, it's important to... I don't think I need to repeat it again!  ;)  Good luck, and remember that these situations are caused by rushing.  Take your time, do it right, and enjoy yourself.  Ryan>

Strange Naso Symptoms (3/26/04)
  Just found your web site and found it extremely interesting regarding Nasos. I maintain aquariums for several businesses and have had a problem with Nasos. <Believe me, many do.> Seems after several months they get a series of pinprick spot on the sides mostly just below the top fin and behind the head. Looks like someone took a pin and gouged out a tiny spot.  They tend to be dark in color.  Also seem to have a few white protrusions (very small) here and there.  No idea if they are related to the same problem. The first fish finally died after months of this "stuff"
slowly spreading to cover a fairly large area.  Treated with copper without any results. <Hopefully not in the display tanks.> Current fish has only 15 or 20 spots currently, eats well, acts normal and is in a 125 gallon aquarium.  Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Jon Bartnick <It's always hard to say without seeing. I'm wondering if this is HLLE. Do read up on it and look at some pix on WWM. The other option would seem to be some sort of parasite. If you have a fish die, it would be interesting to look at some lesions under a microscope to look for parasites. Check out the HLLE possibilities first. Hope this helps some. Steve Allen>

Naso Tang Blowing In The Current?
I have a question for the fish experts at wetwebmedia.  My Naso tang has been doing great for over 5 months in my 180 tank.  Recently he has begun to swim with a waggle, for lack of a better term and he will turn sideways and roll.   Rather than being quick and alert like he always has been, he is being blown around a little more by the current.  Should I be concerned or is there any actions / diagnosis you would recommend?
<Good observation on your part. Although it may be nothing to worry about, the fact that this normally very strong fish is  displaying some signs of weakness, getting blown around in the current-is certainly a cause for some concern. If you are not seeing any other obvious external signs of illness, such as white spots, excessive mucus, rapid breathing, etc., then no further actions may be required except for continued good husbandry. On the other hands, if additional symptoms of disease manifest themselves, please feel free to let us know.>
He is eating well - mostly seaweed selects green algae on a clip with some Selcon soaked in.  He now eats some of the Mysis and flake that I feed the rest of the tank (yellow tang, ocellaris clown, lawnmower blenny).  Could this be a nutritional issue?  
<It is certainly possible. I'd try offering some fresh macroalgae, such as Gracilaria, which is en excellent supplement for tangs. You can get some at my favorite e-tailer, Indo Pacific Sea Farms. An excellent food for herbivorous tangs!>
Until recently, he had no interest in anything I would feed except the algae on a clip.  The other fish are fine and the yellow tang is acting as usual.  The two tangs have always been a little scrappy but nothing to the point of injury. The only other abnormal thing that I can think of is that the Naso will sometimes have a circular lump in the stomach area after eating.
<I would not be overly concerned about that at this point, unless the fish shows other difficulties...>
Any insight you may have is appreciated.
<At this stage of the game, I'd employ continued observation, frequent small water changes, regular feeding, and testing of water to assure that all is well. In short- keep doing what you're doing! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Naso In Trouble?
Hi,
<Hello there! Scott F. at your service>
I am quarantining my first Naso Tang.  I've had him over a month and he seems to be doing OK.  Likes to eat Sargassum and spaghetti algae but hasn't really gotten into flake food or brine shrimp yet.  Very aware and curious of my presence, relaxed breathing and a decent belly. 
<All good signs>
I'd like to put him in the aquarium but I wanted to check with you first.  My only concern are these light blotches or patches on its skin.  To me the blotches seem to have always been there, not getting worse or better.  They aren't raised or fuzzy either. I've attached a photo.  Is this a normal discoloration related to the confines of a QT.
Thanks, Justin
<Well Justin- first off, I commend you on your use of quarantine! An excellent practice that will benefit you and your fishes for years to come! As far as the blotches, it's hard to say what they might be. If the fish appears otherwise healthy, eats well, and is not in any apparent discomfort, then I'd be inclined to release the fish on schedule. Could be anything from a genetic fault to a light trauma incurred by scraping himself against aquarium decor. If you maintain excellent water quality, and keep feeding this guy carefully, he should be just fine. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Black Spot on Fin (NASO TANG)
Hello,
You have a great web site!! I have a 130 gal. salt water with a few damsels and a large puffer and a 11" Naso tang. I noticed yesterday a black spot on one fin. I have had him about a month and he came from a friends tank. He shudders a lot , but no signs of anything!
<Mmm, could be "nothing"... the shuddering is natural... some melanistic spots on Naso lituratus come and go...>
I keep a low dose of copper in the tank, however recently I removed all of it with a carbon pad.
<I would not keep copper constantly in a main/display tank>
Should I retreat with copper or formalin?
<No>
He eats and looks great! Nitrates have been a little high but I do weekly water changes and everything else looks good! He constantly shakes  a lot. It this
<This animal does shake naturally as stated (even in the ocean), but it may be shaking more due to being in small confines... I would look into ultimately trading it in for a smaller specimen (like half this length) in your 130... or getting a much larger, longer system for it. Bob Fenner>

Re: Black Spot on Fin (NASO TANG)
Bob,
Thanks so much for the information ! I am removing all copper out of the tank. My Naso is doing better, however he stopped eating for a few day but I was able to get him to eat live brine shrimp last night. I suppose it was the medication in the water and now he seems to be coming around. (The black spots on the fins have disappeared).
<You are very likely correct here>
I have one more question! I have a 4" or 5"-saddleback clown that I bought from a dealer.
<A large specimen... better not bought at adult sizes>
I put in a QT tank for about 2 weeks and then put him in my show tank. I noticed some large white patchy raised spots on the tips of his fins (about 2 of them )and one on his side. He does not scratch them and he eats like a pig. I have read they are prone to parasites or Brooklynella? I am putting him back in the QT tank and removing the copper . What Do I treat with now? Formalin or anything? Dips? or wait and see! He has about a total of 4 spots on him.
<I would NOT treat this specimen OR move it... but instead replace it to the main/display system, bolster its nutrition with the soaking of foods with vitamin complex (e.g. Selcon)... Not likely Brooklynella or any parasite here. Bob Fenner>
HELP,
CAPT. NEMO-

Naso Tangs
Hello Bob,
<Hello Sanjay>
I'm unsure if you remember, but approx 3 months ago I wrote to you regarding Naso tangs and intestinal worms.
My plan was to investigate intestinal worms in Naso tangs as a reason for their decline in captivity.
<Interesting possibility>
I purchased a healthy six inch Naso and introduced it to my QT system.  It settled in well and after a week or so I began my experiment.  
To half a cube of frozen food I added approx 20mg of an anti-thelmic preparation called Mebendazole.  I obtained the liquid form which sticks to frozen food.
I fed this twice a day for two days without any ill effects to the Naso.  However I did not see any worms.
<Have you taken a look to and through the scientific literature on issues involving such worms and Surgeonfishes?>
On the third day, hey presto, hundreds of tiny round worms (confirmed by the local vet) about 1 cm in length.  Nasty looking organisms might I add.
<Have any pix?>
The QT tank had a little live rock, which proved to be a great mistake.  Many worms sought refuge in this rock.  At the same time the anti-thelmic agent seemed to dislodge the worms, but did not kill them.  I tried to remove as many as I could.  
The tang re-ingested the worms and began to decline in the same manner as my previous Naso did in my main system.
The Naso became increasingly thin over a few days.
Eventually the tang died from what I suspect to be an over load of worms.
I decided to discard the live rock, but as I was about to do so, I spotted a very large round worm about half an inch thick and six inches in length.
My conclusion from the above may provide a reason for why Naso tangs decline for no apparent reason in captivity.
<One hypothesis... how will or might you go about devising experiments to prove, disprove it?>
I am not repeating this exercise as I do not want to be responsible for another Naso death. However I believe that importers of these beautiful creatures may find my studies interesting and take on the responsibility of de-worming these fish before they are passed on to retailers, (in an  Ideal world).
<... better to have a larger sample size... and more "cures" folks can attempt>
I also conclude that those who read this post and decide to de-worm a fish in QT,  must do so with either a more effective anti-thelmic drug or a greater concentration of Mebendazole.  Ensuring the tank is devoid of live rock is also essential.
<Okay>
Hope this has been of interest to you, thanks in advance for taking an interest.
Regards
Sanjay Patel
<And thank you for writing. Bob Fenner>

- Shoe-horn Quarantine -
Greetings Crew,
I really hope you can help me to keep a Naso Tang alive.  I currently have a 3.5" (mouth to tail) Blonde Naso Tang that is frightened of absolutely everything.  His gills and fins begin to flap like a hummingbird's wings any time I get near his tank, turn the lights on or off or anything inside or near his tank moves.  He turns nearly black in color, with white spots.  There are times when gilling is normal and he regains normal coloration but I must remain completely still for several minutes to see this.
What really has me concerned is his lack of appetite.  I have had this Naso for three days now and I have still not seen it eat.  This is my third Naso and all three have suffered the same symptom of not eating.  Although the first two Naso Tangs died, I have had very good success with all my other fish so I had hoped I just happened upon two unhealthy fish previously and this one would live a long life.  The only difference with this fish is that it does appear to have eaten at some point before I received it.  The previous two Nasos were very thin (concave, in fact) but this one is more rounded - "full-bodied".
This Naso is currently in a 20 gallon QT with a 2" Purple Tang. <You should separate these fish - not a good size for two tangs.> I have not noticed any aggression (they were added at the same time). <Still... too close quarters.> For the first day I also had a flame angel and a tiny clown goby in this tank as well but I have since moved them to my 55 gallon QT. <I would do this the other way around with the clown and goby in the smaller quarantine and the larger fish in the 55 - even better would be to have the Naso in there by itself.> Ammonia and Nitrite is at 0 PPM, Nitrate = 20 PPM, salinity = 1.023 SG and temp = 79 Degrees F.  I perform ~20% water changes every third day (using water from my 180 gallon main tank).  The tangs showed signs of Cryptocaryon so I medicated with CLOUT for three days, until all white spots were gone.  I am not using copper at this time because I used this on the previous Nasos and thought this might have played a part in their lack of appetite as I have read that some tangs are sensitive to copper. <Perhaps.>
I have tried feeding Formula 2, Nori, Spectrum pellets, flake food, chopped silversides (Selcon-soaked), Zooplankton and even brine shrimp (Selcon soaked) but the Naso has shown no interest in any of these.  The purple tang seems to like all of these.  What else could I try? <I'd stick with the algae and other green foods - what you might want to try is thaw out some frozen formula two and then press that into a chunk of live rock and re-freeze. When it's feeding time, thaw out a little bit and place in the tank. This should allow the fish to duplicate its natural feeding behaviour which is picking at algae on rocks. Again, I'd remove the second tang from this tank so there is no competition for this food.> Is there any "irresistible" fish food? <Not that I can think of other than live algae growing on live rock - this is what they eat in the wild.>
I QT all new fish for 4 weeks (or 4 weeks after the last signs of ich).  I use the drip method to acclimate fish over about a 45 minute period.  I feed any existing fish in the tank before adding new fish and I leave the lights off for at least four hours after adding new fish to the QT.  There are two cave-shaped pieces of live rock in the QT for hiding.  I try to remain out of sight of the tank except for feeding for the first day or two, until the fish get accustomed to their new surroundings.  What else could I do to make the transition easier for this fish? <Remove that second tang.> What could I possibly do to get the Naso to eat? <Have detailed my ideas... can't think of much else.> Are Naso Tangs of this size just not hardy, do you see any issues with my husbandry or do you think I just had a very bad coincidence (3 very sick Nasos - 1 from my LFS and two from an online store)? <Combination of factors - capture and transport is very stressful, and this usually takes weeks to come down from.>
I have considered moving the Purple Tang to the 55 gallon QT but this larger QT contains a 6" Powder Blue Tang, a porcupine puffer, a flame angel, 3 ocellaris clowns, a Longnose B/F, a Royal Gramma, a Lawnmower Blenny and a Clown Goby. <My friend, you have too many fish in this quarantine. You really need to be dealing with and then placing one fish at a time. Additionally, you have too many tangs... you're going to have problems in the long run with this mix.> I think the Purple Tang would probably hold its own with the Powder Blue but the 55 gallon QT is already a bit crowded and I also thought the Naso might be encouraged to eat by watching the Purple Tang. <I think you're overcrowding your quarantine.>
What are your thoughts regarding what I should do - move fish? <Slow down - one fish at a time.> different foods? medication? fish shiatsu? buy a larger Naso Tang that is eating at the LFS instead of taking the risk on smaller fish? <None of the above - you need to adjust your behaviours. The fish are just reacting to the situations you are putting them into.> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, as I do not want to be unintentionally harming this fish or wasting money on a type of fish that is "impossible" to keep. I did not think Naso Tangs were supposed to be delicate fish. <They typically aren't.> Are Blonde Nasos more/less hardy than those that are not from the Red Sea? <Not that I'm aware of.>
-- Greg
<Cheers, J -- >

- White Spots on Naso Tang -
Hi Crew,
I have a 3"-4" Blonde Naso Tang with small white specks surrounding the perimeter of both pectoral fins and a white tuft (approx 3/16" long) attached to the lower, rear anal fin.  I have tried to take pictures of this but I have been unable to produce any that show the problem. There is not a single (visible) spot of Cryptocaryon on the fish's body. It did have a mild case of crypto and refused to eat for the first four days after it arrived about 1 1/2 weeks ago so I began treating with CLOUT for two days, followed by CopperSafe since that time.
The Royal Gramma that is in the QT with the Naso developed a case of fin and tail rot so I also treated the tank with Maracyn 2 and Melafix.  All fins on both fish are completely clear and perfectly healed now.  I gave the Naso an 8 minute freshwater dip four days ago, in an attempt to rid it of these few white specks, but this had no effect.  The tang is eating very well now and, other than these few white specks on the fin edges, it appears to be perfectly healthy.  The white spots are very pronounced though.  They are approximately the size of a grain of salt (except for the white mass / tuft on the anal fin) and they appear to be lightly sitting on top of the fin edge.
I know the white salt grain-sized specs sounds like Cryptocaryon but I have maintained a constant 2.0 PPM level of Cu++ (chelated CopperSafe) in this QT for nearly 1 1/2 weeks now, followed by freshwater dips.  I have also examined this fish very closely and there are absolutely no other white spots except for these isolated few at the very outer edges of the pectoral fins so this is making me think this fish has something other than crypto. Any ideas? <It's probably just residual marking from the Cryptocaryon. Given the level of copper and the fact that the fish is otherwise eating and doing well, I'd let it continue in quarantine... always keeping an eye on things, make sure those spots don't turn into something else, get infected, etc.>
Water parameters: Salinity = 1.022, Temp = 82 Deg. F, Ammonia = 0 PPM, Nitrites = 0 PPM, Nitrates = 20 PPM, 2.0 PPM Cu++, weekly 25% water changes.
Your help is greatly appreciated!
--Greg
<Cheers, J -- >