Leather troubles....Allelopathy?-01/30/08
Hi Bob,
For the past several weeks I have been experiencing problems with all my leathers. The first leather I noticed that was in trouble was my Toadstool, which I had for over two years. It detached from the rock and then quickly shriveled away. The next leather issue was what I believe is a green tree coral. I got this leather as a frag about a year ago. It grew to about three inches tall and then all of the limbs fell off one by one. Strangely enough I have fragged the limbs and they are doing great,
<huh... good>
but the original trunk has still not started any new growth.
<Is it still alive?>
Next in line was my year old Fiji Yellow. The yellow leather closed up for over three weeks and looked as if small bites were taken out of it. No foul play suspected. The yellow has now opened twice as big and all injuries healed. Finally my five year old stubby finger leather has begun to suffer. It appears that four or five fingers are burned to the base and another
almost appears as a flesh wound. I would really like to avoid any further injury to this leather if possible. Is there any thing I can do?
<It's hard to say without knowing what is causing this.>
I am assuming that it is some sort of allelopathy?
<It could be.>
I have read multiple articles about coral aggression and allelopathy but not sure as to which ones are the culprits.
<There may not be one culprit so much as just a bad combination of tank mates.>
Could it be growing pains between only the leathers? I originally thought it was a wall of frogspawn which took up the entire top left hand side of my tank. I have since sold a good portion of it. I'm still not sold on that theory though.
<These things can bee quite difficult to figure out specifically.>
I then thought it could be the large Maze Brain next to the Stubby Finger leather, but that would not account for the injury to the other leathers.
<Hmm, maybe, but as far as allelopathy goes, I would expect the leather corals to hurt the maze brain.>
I believe that the Maze Brain uses its sweepers rather than chemical warfare.
<It's possible.>
The leathers are about three inches apart from each other and the Stubby Finger leather is about four inches from the Brain
<This is close enough to be in range of sweepers.>
(both have been paired together for years).
<This means nothing really. For one thing, it's not unheard of for corals not to display sweepers for years. Also, corals change/adapt/grow. Just because they've been playing nice for years now, doesn't mean they are now or always will. Even the addition of other leathers may be affecting their dynamic/interaction/over all level of "hostility." These things are so poorly understood even in the wild. You can imagine how little is known about them in captivity.>
I'm not sure if I should try to move the leathers further apart or to remove some mushrooms that are close by. Is there a specific type of coral that would cause the above symptoms even if the corals were on opposite ends of the tank?
<Some leathers are toxic enough to affect corals anywhere in the same tank system as them.>
About my tank: My 125 gallon reef has been established for almost eight years now. I have 6 six foot VHO bulbs, three actinic and three aqua suns. Two main pumps 1800 and 1200 gph. They are controlled via two SCWDs and four returns. The actinic lights come on an hour before and after the main lights. Temp is between 76 - 78 degrees. I have a wet dry sump, but plan on purchasing an ADHI refugium shortly.
<cool>
For the time being I have a small basket of Chaeto algae in the main tank for nutrient control. 15 gallon water changes are done weekly. I am using an AquaFX RO/DI system for RO water. Salinity level is at 1.025; PH 7.8; Nitrates and Nitrites are at 0. Alkalinity is a little on the low side. I am starting to use a buffer to bring it up.
<sounds good>
I also skim and use activated carbon.
<Maybe more activated carbon would help.>
The only other additive I use is marine snow.
<a useless product>
I also have 150lb of Fiji live rock. Last but certainly not least, I just wanted to say thank you to both you and Anthony Calfo for guiding aquarists through an extraordinary hobby!
<Not Bob here, but will pass along the thanks...>
Your book "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" was the very first book I purchased when I began this hobby almost ten years ago.
<Was my first book purchase too. :-)>
Since then I have followed up with "Reef Invertebrates" and Anthony's "Book Of Coral Propagation". I consider you both invaluable assets to the hobby. Thanks for the years of help and for saving me a small fortune by constantly emphasizing research and education.
Thanks Again!
Dave Gambone
<De nada,
Sara M.>

Bleached Sarcophyton 1/23/08
Hello Crew!
<Kirk>
As I was getting ready for a good nights sleep last night I gazed into my 29gal softy tank and to my horror noticed that my Sarcophyton (ehrenbergii? Toadstool shape with polyps primarily around outer edge of the head) was looking very white. It has a good 6" head and was uniformly discolored and I have 2 small frags from this one that are showing the same signs. My Calcium test kit ran out about 2 weeks ago and I have been lax in getting a new one. Well, I got one today and my calcium was at 250ppm. I know, Yikes!
<No big deal; easy to rectify>
I also noticed today that just a few of my mushroom polyps looked a little bleached around the edges as well.
<Oh... in the same small system...>
The pumping xenia and zoas in the tank all looked fine. Is this bleaching typical with low calcium or should I be looking for something else?
<Mmm, yes... very likely a "cascade effect"... the low calcium or whatever caused it, stressing the Cnidarians... their reactions poisoning each other...>
My light fixture went out about a month ago and I replaced it with an identical setup (dual PC, 1 10k, 1 actinic, 65W each). At first I thought this might be the culprit but it seems like it bleached out almost overnight. One other thought, I have a very small green Zoa (2 polyps)
<... Irk... even more toxic>
that broke off from the main colony and I was able to rubber band it to a piece of rubble and it is starting to takeoff. The other day I moved it closer to the top of the tank to get some extra light, well, apparently somebody got a little clumsy and knocked it to the bottom of the tank into the sand upside down. I noticed this first thing in the morning yesterday and replaced it in a more stable spot. Only the moon lights were running when I did this so I don't know if the Sarcophyton looked white at this time or not.
<The Zoanthid... most likely the primary instigator here>
I have bumped up water changes and upped my dose of SeaChem reef complete to boost calcium back to normal levels but don't want to over do it and shock anything.
<Good idea>
Other tank specs:
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
Ph: 8.3
KH: 8
Other Stock:
2 ocellaris clowns
Bi-color blenny
Skunk cleaner shrimp
Serpent star
Blue / scarlet leg hermits
Nassarius / turbo snails
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Kirk
<Mmm, do peruse here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above... to gain insight, a gist of what is probably occurring here. Bob Fenner>

Re: bleached Sarcophyton 1/23/08
Thanks Bob! I almost didn't even mention the Zoa falling because it was so small,
<Take a read about re this life... VERY toxic... even to humans>
I'm glad I did now. I guess it just goes to show that no detail can be too small and even the smallest creature can have a big impact in a small system. Thanks for the reference, I will pay particular attention to properly securing individuals in the future.
<Ahhh, BobF>

Devil's hand leather coral.... hlth./appearance, spelling and reading   01/22/2008
Hey guys and gals,
I have extensively used this site to help me in my tank endeavors..... really got to reading after getting so much bad info at LFS and on the internet.... plus, by reading, you don't get yelled (virtually) at like at some of the forums...
this site has really helped me out a lot and I was wondering if you could answer me a hard/specific question though......
I have a 30 gallon tank, 2.5 gallon hob fuge
1 Koralia nano ph, a filter BioWheel rated for 55 gallons....
130 watts pc....25 watts t-5...
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 10 ppm
I have the scissortail goby (Gary oldman) now 4 inches ..... he needs to get out of my 30 gallon and go to my new 75 (am going to replace him with a smaller fish, possibly a filamented flasher wrasse or/and yellow clown goby)..
the tank currently houses a scooter blenny 1.5 inches (Dante 5000), red firefish 2.5 inches (sharkmonster), green clownfish goby 1 inch (nerd) and a wheelers goby 2.5 inches (cerebus) 2 cleaner shrimp (matilda and leon) a pom pom (Tyler durdan) a peppermint shrimp (Skittles) a serpent star (brad) 10 Nerite snails (the bums) 5 blue hermits (blues boys) 1 hawing hermit (Robocop), 6 Mexican Turbos (m-13), 2 onyx narcissis snails (gods disciples) 1 porcelain crab (yashimi) 1 abalone snail (golum) +1 devils hand leather and 1 mushroom polyp and some star polyps that came with a rock on accident (which is cool)
the question is, my leather has not "sat down" on the rocks, he hasn't extended his base to fasten on the rocks, and he still is kinda propped up on the rock....also, he has small little polypy looking things on him, but I have seen so many pics online that the feeders are much more extended.....
<Ah, yes>
it is approx a foot and half from the top with the power head blowing over the top of it (not directly on it)...
is there anything I should be doing to make it extend (both its base and polyps)??
if you need a pic I have one. its just about 1 meg in size....
<Something amiss with your water quality likely, or a negative interaction with the other cnidarians... and your spelling checker... the beginning of sentences are capitalized. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/alcyoncompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: devil's hand leather coral....  01/22/2008
just to note.....
tank 6 months old...
leather has been in for 2 weeks
<Keep reading... learning to use your Grammar checker. B>

Distressed Leather? (Leather Coral Malady)   12/11/07
Hey,
<Right back atcha! Scott F. in tonight!>
I have a Toadstool Leather that I have had for a few years now. It had a yellow discoloration on the cap in the past and I put the leather in Lugol's and it seemed to take care of the problem. It has returned and the Lugol's doesn't seem to work this time. The middle of the cap has begun to decay, or I guess you could call them areas of necrosis. It hasn't look healthy for a few months now.
<Hmm.. not a good sign. Something may be amiss here!>
I have placed in Lugol's solution 3 times during this time period. Is there anything else that I can do? Any ideas on what might cause this?
Thank you for your help.
Zach Stamey
<Well, Zach- this type of "necrosis" could be caused by a few different things, ranging from a localized reaction by the coral to something lodged in its tissue (such as a piece of sand, debris, etc.) to a possible response to poor or inadequate flow, or degraded water chemistry. Do some investigation and see if you can correct any problems that you find. The remedy for this condition is typically the Lugol's dips that you have already employed, or freshwater dips. If this does not seem to reverse the condition, you could always play "ER" and surgically cut out the affected area with a sharp razor blade. As you probably know, these corals generally respond well to such procedures, and heal quickly if environmental conditions (flow, water quality, etc.) are maintained. With some careful observations, minor system "tweaks", and some perseverance, you can help your Leather coral regain its former glory and thrive for years! Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>

Distressed Leather (Cont'd.)  12/16/07
Thanks for the info.
<You're quite welcome!>
Is there a limit to how many times I should try the Lugol's treatment?
<I would not try it more than once a day...maybe once every other day. Not based on any scientific data, just personal experience...I don't like to overuse the stuff.>
I am pretty sure that its not water quality or water movement. The water quality is maintain very well. I may have to be a surgeon for a day!
<Break out the razor blade and get to work! Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>

Toadstool problems... Allelopathic Potential 12/04/2007
Hello and thank you for all the great work and support that WWM provides the community!
<Hi Josh, Mich here and on behalf of Bob and the rest of the crew you're welcome!>
I recently was given a toadstool as a gift from a local reefers tank.
<Very nice!>
It appeared to be fine for the first week or so and then the polyps stopped opening up. I assumed it was getting ready to slough it's protective layer due to the stress of a new system, transport etc.
A day or two later it did shed it's layer, however it still did not open up.
<Sometimes it takes some time.>
I noticed a bristle worm exit an opening between the base of the stem and the live rock but did not think too much of it at the time since I was under the impression that bristleworms did not eat corals.
<The majority do not eat living coral tissue, but most will eat necrotic coral tissue, which may be what this guy was doing.>
Should I be concerned about the worm?
<It is unlikely that this is a cause and effect situation.>
A week later it shed again and now some of the polyps are opening up,
<Ahhh, good to hear.>
they are not extending as far but it seems everyday that more polyps open and they extend a little farther.
<Very good!>
The thing that has me concerned now is that there is a brownish crust moving up the stem of the coral.
<Perhaps algae?>
I can see in parts where it is sloughing off,
<You might try to blow off this film with a turkey baster or even direct a powerhead towards this area.>
the coral itself is standing erect and I think it has plenty of flow. In fact I moved it once because I thought it had too much flow. I have a Koralia #2 pushing flow around it plus a Maxijet 1200 agitating the water surface above it and the output of my sump is above it also.
<OK.>
Tank params:
45-gallon reef with a Megaflow 2 sump (bioballs removed).
Aquamedic TurboFlotor 1000 inside the sump. I get some nasty black skim material in the collection cup, I empty it 2-3 times a week.
<Good.>
36" Nova Extreme T5 lighting
Two Maxijet 1200's on a wave maker
Koralia #2
Nitrites 0
Ammonia 0
Nitrates 10
PH 8.4
Alk 1.8
<Low, 2.5 - 3.5 meq/L is desirable.>
Salinity 1.025
Temp 78.4 deg
I had about 45 pounds of live rock and just added another 20 pounds of rock from an old reefers tank that had been sitting in his garage for two years ( I soaked the rocks for several days before adding). All the other corals are doing great (xenia, shrooms, Colt leather, frogspawn, Kenya trees, Favia moon, Zoanthids, Cabbage leather, and some GSP.
<Holy allelopathy Batman! You have some big players in the games of chemical warfare! Hope you running carbon and changing it frequently! More here:
http://www.reefkeepingfever.com/article1.htm >
I have some hermits and snails along with three peppermint shrimp that devastated the Aiptasia!
<YAY!>
For fish I have a six-line wrasse,
<OK.>
flame Hawkfish,
<And you still have shrimp, hermit crabs and snail? Not likely for long! More here:
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/682.htm >
and a blue lined Midas Blenny.
<OK.>
Should I just give it some more time I cannot find pics of toadstools with that brown stuff on the stalk, however it does not feel necrotic, although I guess I am not sure what it feels like, but the stalk is firm not mushy.
<Doesn't sound necrotic to me.>
Thanks so much in advance!
<Welcome! Mich>
Josh

Crumbling leather corals   12/2/07
Hi, I was wondering if you could help identify a problem I'm having with my leather corals (mushroom and devils hand and flower leather). I recently moved my tank because I had a new one built (old one was leaking). Before the move all my corals were doing great, opening everyday.
<Just FYI, it took me several minutes to correct all your typos, grammar and spelling errors in even just these first few sentences. Unfortunately, that's less time I have to think about your actual question.>
Whilst we were changing the tanks over my corals were put into huge containers. Unfortunately they were in there longer than expected due to problems with the new tank. For about 3 days, I did put lights, heaters and pumps in the containers.
When moving the corals into the new tank after a couple of days I noticed they were crumbling. I have been told that this was probably an infection because they were in the containers for too long and could not shed. Part of the flower leather survived but most of it just crumbled.
After this I did water checks which were all fine and then added another devils hand which seemed to be doing well but I moved it and found out that this also had holes in it there is also another mushroom in the tank which seems ok (it does not have any holes in it) but it has not opened in over a week now.
<Hmm... not good.>
Throughout all of this I have had green plate coral, sun polyps plus others that all survived the move and are doing well. I really do not understand what is affecting the soft corals in my tank.
Before I had two t5 light bulbs and 2 normal tubes. When I changed the tank I changed to halides 250w and two t5's plus moonlights. Could this be the problem.
<I doubt it's the lighting. But if you didn't properly acclimate, that wouldn't help. It sounds like your leathers have some sort of infection (maybe fungal). If they're crumbling at this point, there's not much you can do except try to save what's left.>
thanks
Steve
<Best,
Sara M.>