Chocolate Chip Starfish/Health 1/25/08
We have a CCS and its turning pink on the top and one of the spines is white?
The tip of one leg is also turning pink and white? Any Ideas?
<Yes, though hardy when handled properly, most starfish are sensitive to changes in specific gravity, temperature, pH and oxygen levels encountered during shipping, and can succumb to rapid bacterial infections that cause necrosis of the legs or whole body for that matter. Stable water conditions and keeping them well fed with a good diet will help in reversing the process.
Read here and related articles and FAQ's above. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm
James (Salty Dog)>
 

Please Help! Reading re CCS, alkaline earths and alkalinity  10/16/07 Hello! This is the first time I have had to ask a question, I usually find what I need on here through other questions asked. I have searched all over through the FAQ’s and I have found a few similar issues but nothing exactly what I am looking for. I am sure you can help. Before I get into my issue let me give you a run down of my tank. I have a 125 gallon fish only tank. It has been running for about 4 -5 months. I have been having a problem with being able to keep my fish, for whatever reason they seen to die. I have been lucky with my “Cookie” , which is a chocolate chip star fish. I have had her, 3 snails and 2 algae eating crabs for about two months, even though everything else had died. I recently placed one female maroon clown and one four striped damsel in the tank, they have been in there for about a week, and after such bad luck with my fish these two have seemed to be doing fine. My levels seem to be stable and have been that way since it went through its cycle. My Ammonia - 0, Nitrites - 0, Nitrates - 20 ( which have been that way since my cycle that I have not been able to lower anymore) and my PH - 8.2.my temp is 78 during the day and falls to about 76 at night. My salt level has always been at 24 <Likely 1.024> but my LFS told me to lower it to 19-21 because the problem I was having with the survival of my fish. It is currently at 21. Has been that way for about a week. (I hope this is enough info for you) I have two questions. My first is about my clown. And my damsel. Its not a big issue at this point but basically just a information concern. They seem to live in the air bubbles from my air stone. The damsel sleeps in a ship that I have in my tank and my clown seems to sleep in the upper corner of my tank. Is this normal for her to sleep there? <Mmm, yes> And is it normal for them, as soon as the light comes on to head over to the bubbles and stay and play there until the light goes off? <Yes> Question two is my main concern. I have sent a picture of my CC starfish, hope it helps. I woke up this morning and I have noticed that 3 of her chips are gone, and I can see white where the chip is gone. I never noticed then falling off, or any of my other 2 fish bothering her. She stays on the side of the tank so I don't have to worry about the crabs. She seems to be fine besides that. She did have a problem eating, I use to feed her every other to every 3 days, I piece of frozen krill. For about 5 days it seemed to not take any food in, but I have gave her a piece yesterday morning and she ate it. So please help me! Why are the chips gone? <Likely some imbalance in your alkalinity and/or biomineral concentrations... Calcium and Magnesium mostly...> And what can I do to help her? <Read...> I don't have a hospital tank, but I do have a 10 Gallon tank that I can set up if I have to. I have MelaFix, which I have read you talking about, so I am guessing you don't like this product. But will it help my Star? Thank you for whatever help you can give me! <Start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ccstardisfaqs.htm and the linked files above and in-text where you encounter them. Bob Fenner>

Going, going...

Chocolate chip starfish is doomed, I fear, unless rapid knowledge is gained by owner  - 3/12/07
I got a chocolate chip starfish about a week ago, (after doing tons of research) and now he has these weird...
<weird?>
...spots on his central disc and I have no idea what to do!!
<OK, first off, a bit more info. on your setup would be very helpful. How large is your aquarium, how long has it been established, what else is living in there, how much live rock, type of filtration and skimmer, etc. are all very useful for us to be able to help you.>
I tested the water for alkalinity (high),
<High is subjective; what is the actual measurement?>
nitrites (.1),
<Nitrites must be at zero. What about ammonia (which also must be zero), nitrate readings?>
and pH (8.4). Neither temperature or salinity are registering (but I just put the meter in).
<OK, this is not helpful at all. Perhaps you could have waited until you had a measurement? In any case, you should have a thermometer in the tank to monitor temperature on a constant basis...>
The spots are two right next to each other, they're very small and the arm they are closest to is drooping. This star fish is also missing one arm, and has been very active (in fact, he climbed... on some of the plants in the aquarium!)
<Perhaps I'm being judgmental, but this doesn't sound like a good marine aquarium setup...>
PLEASE HELP!!!!!
-scared...
...in Iowa
<My friend, I know you claim to have done "tons of research", but you obviously haven't been reading the right materials. This sounds to be a water quality issue; inverts such as the chocolate chip starfish, Protoreastor nodosus, are extremely sensitive poor environmental conditions. Here's a good place to start reading for info. on this creature in your care: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ccstardisfaqs.htm
Also, I would suggest you "start from the beginning", as it is evident your knowledge of marine aquaria is sorely lacking. Of course, none of us is born knowing these things, but you've taken it upon yourself to become the primary caretaker for this invert, and you must now "step up to the plate" and give it a suitable home. Please read here, for starters:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marineSetUp.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/filtration/biological/biofiltr.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/stardisfaqs.htm
Good luck, Jorie>

Chocolate Chip Problem (8/22/04)
I have read through your site on sea stars with special attention to the chocolate chip.  Mine had a little black bump on one of the chips that make up his crown last night.  Today when I got home from work  one of the chips on his leg had a white spot like the tip (of the chip, not the leg) was sliced off, very very
small piece.  I touched him, he is still very firm, very active, and as always <Good signs>, wanted to climb on me as soon as I put my hand in the tank.  Background info: 29 gal tank w/ coral substrate, tank up since June 13th, water is very stable ph 8.2, temp 79, s.g. 1.022, amm 0, No2 0, No3 around 12.  Currently fallow (except for Cookie) to kill velvet outbreak, last fish died 8/1.  <Be patient and wait 8 weeks to add fish again--the prolonged time will reduce the risk of recurrence.> The only change I have made since then is to add a piece of live rock (cured, no change in any tank numbers, checked daily) 4 days ago.  I have started doing weekly water changes of 3 gal. He eats well, 1/4 in piece or shrimp or scallop (defrosted in tank water) every 2 or 3 days.  I want to act fast since he is still firm. Is there anything I can do  to help him (I am scheduled to change 3 gal  
water tomorrow) My QT/Hospital tank is just in start up and still hasn't cycled. <It is tough to say what is the cause of this. The white spot seems more concerning than the black bump as it sounds like more of a deterioration. Since you have no fish in there, you should be able to keep excellent and stable water conditions in the main tank. I'd do that and keep an eye on things. If this seems to progress, then I'd move it to the QT and consider antibiotics there. This is about all you can do.> Thanks, Beth <Hope this helps. Keep us posted. Steve Allen.>

Knobby seastar health
Hi Bob,
I am writing you this short note hoping it gets to you , I have
a question on my chocolate chip star fish, over night we have
noticed he has a white tip on one of his arms also a small bump on it and also curls it up.....can you give any ideals? maybe on how to treat it?.....need help.....
<Unfortunately these stars do often fall prey to cumulative stress (mainly from collection, holding, shipping from the wild)... and subsequent infection. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm
and the related FAQs (linked, in blue, at top). Bob Fenner>
Debbie

Two-fer on Chocolate Chip seastar health
Dear Crew Member,
    I purchased a chocolate chip, Protoreastor nodosus, about six months ago.
After becoming enamored with it, I purchases a partner for it about a month
later; it is about twice the former's size and appears to be of a different
species.  The former then began to act lethargic and look sickly, then it
began its normal constant moving about the tank, and both seem to be enjoying
each other's company by "hanging out together" on the glass walls of my 10
gallon tank.  About five days ago, I noticed that the former had lost a chip
on one of its legs; now, one can see into its leg - it looks like little rows
of cotton balls with a ligament down the middle of them.  What's wrong, and
is it curable?
Sincerely,
Maura Staker
<Unfortunately these stars do often fall prey to cumulative stress (mainly from collection, holding, shipping from the wild)... and subsequent infection. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm
and the related FAQs (linked, in blue, at top). Bob Fenner>

Chocolate Star!
my chocolate chip star fish is still not moving or letting its suction cups out
or stomach out but  I just don’t know if its dead or not cause I put a heater
up to the tank and whenever I pick it up it just seems like its dead cause
nothing moves even at night  so do you have a way of telling if its dead or
not  its not falling apart or disintegrating.
thank you very much
< Just give him time if he is not disintegrating there is still hope.  Also make sure your salinity is between 1.022-1.026 as they are sensitive to salinity. Cody>

Chocolate Chip Star
Hi, I just bought a chocolate chip star fish.  It was doing fine when I put it in the tank, but I didn't know it needed a heater.  So in the middle of the night I put the heat light close to it and the next day it moved some in the morning, but when I got back from church it wasn't sucking on to any thing and it wasn't moving its suckers at all.  Do you think it's dead, or do you know
anything I can do for it?  Please email me back please ASAP
Thank you, please hurry.
>>Well, not knowing what temperature it got down to, as well as not having other parameters, I'm shooting in the dark here.  But I can tell you this much: the thing to watch for is disintegration.  If the parts of the sea star appear to just be falling apart/disintegrating, then I'm afraid your chocolate chip is doomed.  Otherwise, if that is not the case, then if at all possible get a heater in the tank and try to keep it at 75F minimum.  Assuming it lives and you get it warmed up, you may want to set some food out for it, a piece of shrimp, squid, or krill--but do not just leave it in the tank to decompose.
Let us know how it goes, and good luck!
Marina

Chocolate chip star
I've had a chocolate chip starfish for about 2 weeks now.  He has been moving and eating fine.  We added a second one a week ago, also eating and moving fine.  This last weekend we lost two of our damsels to some unknown reason.  I did a 20 percent water change and cleaned the inside of the tank to get rid of the algae.  I fed them this morning and the newest one, the smaller one, wouldn't eat.  I was told by my LFS to treat the tank with an antibiotic to try to save the other fish.  He said MelaFix was a pretty good general antibiotic.
<... an antibiotic to treat what? Melafix is not an antibiotic... but a liquid preparation of Tea Tree (Melaleuca) leaves... does have anti-bacterial effect... but so does soap, detergents...>
As soon as I poured it in, both of the stars lifted their arms and curled them back over themselves and all of the fish started to swim around a lot.  The smaller one has gone back to normal and moved around a little while the bigger one keeps his arms curled up even when it  moves.  The bigger one has gone through dosing of MelaFix before and was fine.  Now the main part of its body looks kinda bloated, thicker than it was a couple of days ago.  I don't think I gave him a piece of shrimp that was too large.  Can you feed these guys two much.
<Yes>
  I feed them about every three days, usually shrimp.  Also, these stars seem to do the curling thing when the lights go out.  Is this normal?  Any info would be greatly appreciated.
<The symptoms mentioned are signs of probable poisoning. I would move the stars and any other invertebrates to a separate system (if you can) or barring this, start a series of large (25% or so) water changes, add activated carbon... to reduce the toxic effect. Please see here re these stars: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm
and the linked FAQs pages... and perhaps use the Google Search feature on our homepage, indices to learn about Melafix.
Bob Fenner>

Re: chocolate chip star
I was told to treat the fish for possible fungus infection.  All damsels and
clowns faces turned a greyish color and the remaining damsel has a big grey
patch by his right pectoral fin.
<Fungus infections are rare in captive marine settings>
I have left the charcoal in the hang on
filter (Emperor).  Now both stars have completely curled up and the larger
keeps falling off everything and ends up upside-down without righting
himself.  Neither will eat.
<Did you change water as instructed? Stop medicating?>
Good news is, that the fish are becoming more
active and eating more.  Shrimp, snails and hermit crabs seem totally
unaffected by the Melafix. Although, they do move around a little when it
goes into the water.  Will try to pick up a small QT, budget allowing.  Is
there anything I should think about treating the starfish with?
<Just optimized, stable conditions. Bob Fenner>

Re: chocolate chip star
Have moved the starfish into a five gallon bucket with a small 60 gph filter
with charcoal.  SG is about the same at the tank about 22.  Is there
anything that I should do for the fish to keep anymore from dying?
<Do slowly (about .001 per day) change your specific gravity to near seawater level (1.025)>
What
about the grey patch.  And do you know of a place to see a good picture of
ich.  Not sure what the damsel has.
<I would not be worried re the patch. Please read through our root web: www.WetWebMedia.com for the picture, further information. Bob Fenner>

Starfish
I have a chocolate chip star
<This is a great starfish for fish only systems. They're too ravenous for a reef tank>
which I have had for about six months.
<Okay>
He has been very active. In the last few weeks he seems to have trouble holding onto the sides of the glass 75 gal. tank. At times falling off.
<That's not unusual. I had one for several years and he was never able to really hold to the sides of the tank. He finally got so large I had to trade him in at the LFS>
The last week he has not moved.
<Doesn't sound good. That's way too long for him to remain in one place. These guys forage for food constantly>
His color seems the same and he is flexible. Not stiff.
<Not a good sign. Every starfish that I've ever handled felt more or less stiff. They will also try to bend their bodies away from you>
The other fish, angels, clowns and one triggerfish seem to be doing ok.
<Triggers are likely to prey upon starfish>
How do I tell if this animal is dead?
<Pick him up and look at the tube feet: They should be wiggling. Then look at its mouth. You should see it trying to close or in some way, it will be making an adjustment...and give it the old nose test.  Sorry, but I don't feel good about this critters' well-being>
Thanks, Tim
<You're welcome! Chocolate chips are normally very hardy.>

End of the line for Chippy?
Bob & Crew:
We have a Choc Chip Star for about 4 months now - we've recently had to move him to a hospital tank. It was suggested that he be removed by our LFS because we were treating (lower salinity, up temp) for ick. They said he wouldn't like the change in salinity.
<I agree>
He been in the hospital tank for about 2 weeks now - yesterday morning - I noticed that the little tips of him were odd looking, almost white. This morning - I see that it almost looks like he is deteriorating. I fear it may be because of a deteriorating water quality in the hospital tank. Is it too late to save him?
<It sounds like he has already begun to turn into mush. Yes, too late then.>
Will a major water change in there do any good?
<It cannot hurt.>
thanks! ~Bill
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Chocolate ship starfish
I have a new chocolate ship starfish and he sick. Something is eating away at his arms. Any suggestions? My other two seem to be just fine.
<Not a good sign... the problem is likely internal and not easily stopped... but there is a chance that "something" is eating it during the night... that you might be able to discover and remove. Please read through the 'Seastar' section and FAQs stored on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com for more here. Bob Fenner>
Shane Hardin

My starfish
My starfish is sick, I think. I hope you can help somehow. I have a 55 gallon, with damsels and 3 crabs. I bought a chocolate starfish to help with cleaning. He worked very well, so I bought another. The second one is doing great, but now the first one looks absolutely terrible! I think two of his legs have totally fallen off. They're still kind of there, but hanging on by these boogery threads. Very mucous looking. He's still eating, and still alive, but half his innards are trailing behind him. He doesn't move a lot. I am almost positive the damsels have been leaving him alone, and the crabs too. I have him separated now to be sure. They have regular water changes every 3 weeks, they are all fed 3 times a day from a good mixture of green lifeline, red lifeline, Mysis shrimp and krill. They only get 8 hours of light a day, and I keep the filtration system clean. And on top of that, everyone else looks great, and is doing fine. I've tested all the levels recently, and they are all within normal levels. Can I give him Zoe?
<Yes, a good idea... Soak the foods this animal is eating for about fifteen minutes>
Or should I just hope he gets better on his own? 
<This species can be hard to keep, hopefully yours will recover. Please do consider other hardier species like Archaster, Fromia... as detailed here on our site: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seastars.htm
and read the FAQs section beyond. Do remove the damaged individual if you become aware of it no longer being alive. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>
Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Krysty

Re: My starfish
Thanks for your response. I guess I waited too long, he didn't make it through the night. 
<Not atypical... be satisfied that you did your best>
When I gave him to the porcelain gods, I noticed in some of the slimy boogery stuff, I saw some worm looking things. I've noticed these in the tank itself before. They live in the crushed coral, and always seem to be heaviest in the green algae, and they are always heaviest right before I do the water changes. Did my starfish pick up a virus from my tank itself? 
<Doubtful. If it had an infectious or parasitic disease, it was likely "imported" with it... and through weakening in transit, acclimation to new surroundings, succumbed>
Is there something I can add to the water? I just thought these worm things were bacteria. 
<Mmm, nothing I would "just add"... and not bacteria... if they're moving... something/s bigger... likely some type of "bristle worm"... and likely not the direct cause of trouble here>
I have found a lot of information on your website and plan to do a lot more reading. Very informative. I hope you don't mind all my trivial questions, my local fish store's employees are less than competent. Thank you again, Krysty
<No worries my friend. Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Injured Chocolate Chip Starfish
Hello,
I purchased a chocolate chip starfish two days ago. The starfish is about 2
inches across. Also in my 45 gallon non-reef tank is a Banded Coral Shrimp,
of moderate size, and several dwarf hermits. The starfish was fine for the
first day, then I noticed a small chunk had been taken out of one of his
legs. I'm not sure if whether the hermits or the shrimp should be my prime
suspect. I've since isolated the chocolate chip star with a divider, and
noticed the small chunk has gotten larger and the wound looks worse. Why is
this happening? Is it some type of infection, and should I worry about that
affecting the other animals in the tank? How long, with proper water
conditions, would it take for the star to grow that leg back? And finally,
is there anything I can do??  <I’m suspecting shipping is what caused this wound as there are very touchy shippers.  There is not much you can do for him except keep him isolated and keep your water quality good.  Also make sure your salinity is ok since they are sensitive to low salinity.  Cody>
Thanks.
a.h.

Chocolate Chip Star Problems (4/5/04)
Hi, <Howdy, Steve Allen covering echinoderms today.>
I have had my chocolate chip starfish for 2 years, and he has
always been healthy.  Yesterday I noticed white ragged spots on
his legs.  The areas are near the dark "chips" that are furthest
from his central body, there are three affected legs - one that
looks pretty bad, the other two legs have smaller spots.  
Nothing has been altered in the tank, and all other inverts and
fish are fine (none are showing spots). <Do you have any nippy fish that might be taking a taste.> He is also still very active and interested in food. I would greatly appreciate it if
you could help me I'm quite attached to the little guy! :)
Thanks, Beth <This may be a bacterial or fungal infection. I'd be a little concerned about it possibly being contagious. Even if not infected now, these wounds easily become so. Unfortunately, such conditions are usually ultimately fatal. Do consider putting it into a hospital tank with pristine water for observation/treatment. Consider a broad spectrum antibiotic if this seems to be worsening at all. Hope this helps.>

Crumbling Cookie (4/5/04) <For future reference, please capitalize the proper noun "I" and the first word of each sentence and spell-check your e-mail. We post all queries and replies on our site for permanent reference. They need to be readable. Our volunteer staff will have a lot more time to answer queries if we don't have to proofread too.>   About a month ago me and my mom bought a chocolate chip star fish, there is a picture of him like two days after we put him in the tank. The 1st two pictures are him before we saw him getting funny looking, and the last pictures are when we notices something wrong. <Only one picture came through.> His one arm is kinda turning white and crumbling, and you can see in the 2 pictures that I marked off. And also 2 of the chip tips are falling off like you can also see.   I couldn't get picture of these but these got a gray spot on him and that has 2 little black dots inside of it, and he's got little brown polka dots on his bottom side, he still moves around the tank, he doesn't like to  be stuck up against the side though. What is wrong and how can I save him? please Help! Meghan <Well Meghan, I'm sorry to say that it is not very likely that you will be able to save this star. Once they start to "melt," there is little that can be successfully done. The best bet would be to put it into a small, separate hospital tank (see WWM for details) and treat with a broad-spectrum antibiotic. Still, I'd be surprised if you can save it. Starfish seldom recover from degeneration/infection. Read more about them on WWM and elsewhere or in "Reef Invertebrates" by Anthony Calfo and Robert Fenner. Steve Allen.>

Chocolate Chips are Falling Off!
>I have had a chocolate chip starfish for a few weeks and yesterday I noticed one of its chips fell off.  
>>This is not good, it sounds kinda funny, but it is not good.
>I had it in a tank with a spotted moray eel, but the eel never bothered it.  
>>Eels wouldn't be a concern, but certain shrimps (that WOULD be eaten by the eel), triggers, and puffers are known to munch stars.
>Today it is keeping 3 of its legs curled up and it seems to be losing more chips and turning white.  
>>Bad signs, my friend.  If it appears the animal is disintegrating, there are only a very few things that can be done for it.  These creatures are among THE most sensitive to water quality, salinity, and acclimation.  I doubt it's an acclimation issue if it's been a few weeks.  Water quality, especially in a tank with an eel is another story entirely.  It is imperative to keep the water as pristine as sea water.
>Is it just sick or is it dying?  
>>It very well may be dying, especially if it appears to be disintegrating.  If the central disk appears to be falling apart at ALL, I'm afraid there is, for all intents and purposes, little to no hope.
>I have already separated it from all my other fish so it doesn't ruin the tank.  
>>This was a very wise decision.
>If it is sick what can I do to cure it and when can I put it back in my other tank?  Melissa
>>Melissa (now I feel as though I'm talking to my sister), water quality issues aside, the only method I know of to help a sick sea star is to try an antibiotic called Spectrogram.  I would treat for a week, using FRESHLY made up water, not tank water.  I would make certain that the water in the tank is perfect and make certain that I have the best test kits I can buy - Salifert and SeaChem are two excellent kits for the money.  (Salifert is often out of stock, Dutch company - SeaChem is in Georgia.)  Many times correcting the water quality is all that is necessary if necrosis is very limited.  Marina

- Need Help ASAP! - 
We need your help ASAP! We set up a 20 gallon quarantine tank and it has an Emperor 280 Bio-Wheel Filter and we have an air stone and heater and a couple PVC pipes in it. We are keeping the temperature at 81 degrees. <You do know you can keep that a little cooler - perhaps 78 degrees if possible.> We bought two clown fish and a chocolate chip starfish about two weeks ago and put them in to quarantine. The problem is today we noticed our chocolate chip starfish is on the bottom he is moving a little but not like he was and his arms are all curled upward. 
Our nitrites are reading at 3.0 and we can't figure out why they are so high. <Nitrate being the end of the line in the nitrogen cycle, the leading way to eliminate them is via export - water changes.> The ammonia tests are reading 0 and the nitrates are reading 0. Do you think this is why our chocolate chip starfish isn't doing well? <Probably not... does it have anything to eat? I wouldn't bother quarantining a seastar and would go ahead and add this to your tank.> Also, what can we do to bring the nitrites down? We do a 25% water change about twice a week. <Three parts per million of nitrate is not high, and not a danger to much that I can think of. I wouldn't be too concerned.> Help! Also, our starfish has like a white mucus floating on one of his chocolate chips. What do you think that is? <Hmm... not good, get it into the main tank where it can find some food.> 
Your help would be greatly appreciated! 
Thank You, Bret 
<Cheers, J -- > 

- Need Help ASAP! Follow-up -
We will go ahead and turn down the temperature on the quarantine tank. We give our starfish shrimp pellets twice a week  and he does sometimes eat them.  He is now looking a lot better after much more frequent (almost continuous) water changes. Our Nitrates are still reading 0  it is our nitrites that are still reading at 3.0 12 hours after a 50% water change. <Yeah... someone on the crew pointed out to me that I responded to your last mail by saying that a nitrate reading of 3.0 is not high. My bad, you said nitrites, and this most certainly is bad news for the seastar. You really need to get that animal out of there and into the main tank - no need to quarantine it.> Since the last response from you we have done a 75% water change yesterday and we just completed another 50% water change.  Once we did the 75% water change the starfish is doing better.  The funny thing is our clownfish seem fine during the high nitrites. <Clownfish are an order of magnitude more hardy than seastars... but still, any tank fresh/salt/quarantine will need to have the nitrogen cycle firmly established, or made insignificant by regular [daily] large water changes, there is no other way. The presence of the nitrites is just he nitrogen cycle becoming established.>
We decided to quarantine our starfish for the only reason that our main tank had ich (and our LFS suggested it). <Seastars don't carry Cryptocaryon and would be fine to leave behind as long as you're not treating the main tank with any chemicals.> That was Dec. 11th.  The only thing we have in our main display is live rock (65 lbs.) and hermit crabs.  We had about 9 snails in the tank as well and they died off one by one till the last died around the 22nd of Dec. We were wondering if we could add a little live rock to the quarantine tank to help cycle the tank (and if so how) so we don't have to do 75% water changes every day to keep the nitrites down. <I would not add the live rock to quarantine - better to just work with daily water changes of about 25%, perhaps 50% every other day.> What would you suggest? Thank you very much for all your great and valuable advice.
Thank You,
Bret
<Cheers, J -- >

Inside-Out Sea Star (1/6/2004)
Hello, <Hi. Steve Allen tonight.>
First Of all I would like to thank you for all your help. Having said that. I have a Chocolate Sea Star in a 180g fish only tank. The reason I am writing is because it is doing something that I have never seen or heard of before. It sits on the side of the tank and it looks like it is grazing but it looks like its stomach is on the outside, its a mucus- like blob under it then a
while later its gone. I have looked through your pages on Sea Stars and can't find anything about this. Thanks for all the help. Tom
<Good observation on your part, Tom. In fact, this is how many Asteroids feed. They evert their stomachs over their prey and begin to digest outside their bodies as they pull the partially-digested item back in. Actually rather interesting to observe from the ventral side through glass. I have several sea stars, including a Chocolate Chip and an African Red-knobbed (Protoreastor lincki). I often feed them by placing a chunk of seafood under them on the front glass of my tank. It takes several hours for them to completely ingest the chunk. They seem to like being fed that way. I know they want food when they come to the front wall several time per week.>
<Most Asteroid Sea Stars need direct feeding. In their excellent "Reef Invertebrates" book, Bob and Anthony advise placing food close by in their path rather than handling them because that might provoke a fright response. I was not initially aware of this recommendation, so for a long time I have been feeding mine by placing food directly under their mouths and then placing them against the front glass. They attach themselves to the glass and go merrily about eating the food. They are used to this and associate my touch with feeding. BTW, it is very important not to lift them out of the water, which may damage their water vascular system. Personally, I think all echinoderms are truly fascinating creatures--enjoy.>

Injured Chocolate Chip Star (10/21/04)
Hi! <Hello. Steve Allen tonight>
I am still very new to saltwater systems but learning more every day, thanks to your great site.  I have had a Chocolate Chip Starfish since almost the beginning of the 75 gallon set-up but have since learned that he will not be reef safe :(  <This is true, but they are cool to have in a proper system.> In any event, I recently purchased a Dwarf Fuzzy Lionfish and was told that they would be compatible.  Two days after putting them together I noticed that my CC Star looked shriveled and one leg was white and deteriorating...he was at the time attached to my powerhead and my husband surmised that he must've gotten his leg "stuck" somehow <Possible, this does happen and can result in injuries that easily become infected.>...24 hours later when I woke up the Lion was aggressively checking him out as the CC star was attached to the front wall of the tank.  All levels in the tank have been perfect, a protein skimmer is running, and all the other fish (copper banded butterfly, velvet damsel, who I realize is not a great choice now, and a Protoreastor lincki sea star, <Another beautiful star--also not reef safe.> also live rock about 50 lbs.) are doing o.k. but the other star is not as active as the choc chip ever was.  Is the lionfish the problem with the CC star and is that the reason that the other star is not as active too? <I doubt the lion is the problem. A Trigger yes, a Lion no. Did you quarantine the lion first? I'd be suspicious of some bacterial pathogen introduced with any water that got in there from his bag. Are your water parameters proper and stable? I would consider removing the star to a quarantine tank and treating with a broad-spectrum antibiotic.> Thanks a lot you guys are the best! Carol <Hope this helps.>

Chocolate Chip Starfish Disease
<Hello! Ryan with you>
Got a very weird problem occurring with a chocolate chip star. It started last winter when it was one of very few survivors of a power outage that resulted in a devastating temp drop, killing nearly all of my reef animals. (All of the live rock & hermit crabs lived as well) But it was left with a bright white tip on one of it's limbs. <This is a common stress indicator among seastars.> This white tip, over the last 9 months has eventually proven to be some sort of rot, as this one appendage is now mostly gone, and the nub still tipped in white. The animal other than that, is very much alive, healthy & eating. Any idea what it is? <Have a look: http://wetwebmedia.com/stardisfaqs.htm> Is it treatable? <Only with improved water quality, diet> and is it dangerous to the other animals in a now replenished system? <Likely no.>  Thanks for your help. <Best of luck! Ryan
-Pat

Falling Stars? 
Hi, 
<Hi there- Scott F. at the keyboard today!> 
I have a 55 gallon aquarium that has been running for about three months. It is completely cycled, very little nitrates, no ammonia, nitrites, copper, salinity at 22. It is occupied by Bar gobies, Chromis, Horseshoe crab, and one Damsel. My water is resin filtered. I bought one Chocolate chip star and he seemed fine for about a month. I had a sudden temperature drop from 78 to 70 degrees and he died. I assumed this was the reason. 
<Well, it certainly could have contributed...Dramatic environmental shifts are not well-tolerated by these animals> 
I bought a second one, and it was only active for a brief period and then stayed in one place. After a few days, it died. I had the water retested and found that the PH had dropped to 8.0 and the Phosphates were high ( I hadn't been checking them before). I have other friends with thriving star fish at 22 salinity, so I didn't consider that to be a problem. 
<In and of themselves, these factor are not problematic...But when you experience a sudden shift, it becomes a problem...> 
Question: Could the rise of phosphates kill a starfish that quick? or is there some other unknown substance lurking in my water? 
<I doubt that the phosphates could do it, but the rapid changes in the environment could...Stability is very important. And, yes, there could be some pathogen or other toxin at work in the tank.> 
There is no algae to speak of growing except some diatom which is receding after I treated for phosphates, I feed the fish brine shrimp with Spirulina everyday mostly, the star would have eaten that mostly. Did it simply starve to death? Thank you. Randy 
<That would take a rather long time. I think what you're seeing is a reaction to unstable environmental factors, possibly combined with some other problems. My thoughts for future prevention would include careful selection of very healthy animals at the dealer, combined with initial quarantine and environmental stability. Continued use of activated carbon and/or Poly Filter, as well as frequent small water changes, aggressive protein skimming, and continued good feeding practices. In the end, this should do the trick...Keep up good husbandry practices, and I'm sure that your luck will improve! Regards, Scott F>

Chocolate Chip Star Problems (11/3/04)
Hi, my name is Cathy, and I recently got a chocolate chip star. I have had it for about two weeks, and it looked great when I bought it. But now, its skin is not as hard as it was, and when it is on the glass, it looks like the top legs are too thin, and the bottom ones are too fat. Like it is sagging. It also curls its legs upwards when it is sitting on the bottom of the tank. Now I have noticed that one of its chips has broken off. What could be causing all of these problems? <Hello Cathy, Steve Allen tonight. Did you acclimate the star slowly over a couple of hours? Are your salinity, temp and pH stable at normal seawater values? Stars are very sensitive to fluctuations. They are also sensitive to ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. That said, the loss of one "chip" may not be a problem. Anything in your tank that might have bitten it off? Their skin is not always hard, though will firm up as a reaction to being touched much. It may feel a little soft when first touched. The tube feet that are higher on the glass sometimes stretch out and the lower ones may be shorter and fatter. I have seen this with my own and suspect it is related to gravity-induced sag. Curling the leg tips up is also common. Thus, nothing at all may be amiss if it is moving and eating normally. Does it react to food and eat? The key here is to maintain stable and optimal water conditions. Do feel free to write back with more details. Hope this helps.>

Chocolate Chip Starfish
Hi,
I have a CCS and I am not sure what is going on. I have read through the FAQ's and some of them answered
my questions but my starfish goes a little beyond those. For one it looks like it is disintegrating on
its arms which is the part on the FAQ's that I read but everything else I could not find. If you look at
him on the bottom there are holes in his body you can see right through to the other side and he has some
very big white spots all over his body. The other problem is in between two of his legs it looks like he
is splitting apart. He has a very large split (basically if you took a piece of paper and cut a slit
in it at the edge at the bottom) and has some white mucus looking stuff coming out of the split along with
white balls dropping from the same place. Can you please help me try to figure what is going on and is
there anything I can do to fix him or save him. Also the last time we check the water everything was fine
in the way of ph nitrate, nitrite and anything else.
Thanks Jackie<I believe your starfish is on his way to starfish heaven.  Most starfish do not last too long in a closed system.  Nutrients is usually the biggest downfall.  Have you every offered it food?> James (Salty Dog)

Sick CCS
Hi
<Hello>
My name is Kai and I have one Chocolate Chip Starfish for about one
month and CCS was fine until our tank has ICH. I saw my CCS's skin
rot...and I can see the white thing...(is that CCS's bones?)
<Likely part of the exoskeleton, yes>
What
should I do? (I am changing the water because of the ICH but I don't
know how to cure the CCS)
<If you have an older, established system, move this seastar to it... quickly. If not... Bob Fenner>
Sincerely,
Thank you very much
Kai

Sore on Chocolate Chip Star (5/15/05)
Hey crew, quick question. My CC star looks like it has a sore on one of its limbs. It looks like skin is missing b/c it is white where the sore is, almost like bone. 
<Yes, the non-bony interior of stars is whitish-brown/gray. Of course, echinoderms have no bone.> 
What could be causing the problem and are there any ways I can get heal it? 
<Do you have any nippers in there? One suspicion is a bite from something. Another possibility is an infection or some deterioration in water quality. Stars need very stable pH, SG, and temp. Ammonia and nitrite at any level can be a problem and excessive nitrates are also a no-no. I'd check all of these. 
If you have a fish nipping at it, one or the other has to go. If not, the best treatment is to maintain pristine and stable water conditions and hope for the best. Your water change regimen requires that you carefully match the pH, SG and temp of the change water to the tank to avoid harm to this and any other sensitive inverts.> 
I have a 29 G tank and I am doing 25% water changes weekly. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks again and as always good luck with your fish and endeavors. Aaron 
<You're welcome and thanks to you too, Steve Allen.> 

Chocolate chip star  problem
Hi again, Sherry here. My problem is a chocolate chip starfish. I hope you
can see from the pics what I am talking about.
<No pix attached>
 The reddened circular areas around the center disk of chips and then around each chip. What is this?
<Necrosis>
He did not look like this 3 days ago. Last ate three days ago when he stole the
Porc. puffer's king crab leg in shell piece. I use the same clip for both
and the star covered the clip in no time. It looked really cool because he
inverted his stomach inside the shell ends of the crab leg. I didn't give it
any thought though and after he finished, he went to hide under a rock
ledge. I had a scheduled water change planned for today (my nitrates had
been up a little...50ppm) and when I did a head count I noticed these spots
around his chips. Could the crab legs have done this? His meal 3 days prior
was a tiny purple octopus. I cant remember if I did on this occasion but
sometimes I add garlic juice from soft gels to the puffers food.
His [star's] normal diet is shrimp, mussel, squid, clam, octopus, krill and silversides.
He has been in tank....130gal. for over a year and has always been healthy
and active. water test out fine except for the nitrates being a little high.
I had planned on moving the star once my puffer got a little bigger although
he leaves it alone. The star has no white areas, feet still moving, stiff as
a board...not soft any where. Looked on the site and can't find anything
similar. Have you ever seen this before?
I moved him to a bucket with aged SW, heater, and airstone. Wasn't sure if he
was sick and didn't want anything to affect fish.
1 9" Foxface Rabbitfish
2 4" three stripe humbugs
1 lg. hermit crab
6-9 bumble bee snails
1 lg. turbo snail
1 5.5" Porc. puffer
1    pink damsel
1   Blue/yellow tail damsel
3 3" Chromis
Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanx in advance.
<Please read on WWM re this species, other seastar disease... Bob Fenner>

Update on chocolate chip starfish
I just wanted to drop you an email on my chocolate chip starfish. I emailed you a while ago regarding him. You assumed I added livestock before the tank was cycled, but I didn't (just wanted you to know that :) Anyway, I started feeding him tubeworms and we did a small water change, he is all better. His spot is gone, his chips haven't grown back though (not sure if they will) but he is very healthy looking now. He eats well and I'm just very happy to see that I've saved him :) Thanks for the information on your site, I get cross-eyed from reading so much :)
Thanks a lot!!
Deana
<Great news! Thank you for the update. Bob Fenner>

Chocolate Chip - Not Even a Cookie
Hola!!!
<<Hola, como esta?>>
Thanks for all your hard work. Your site offers great advice to help me with every aspect of my tank. I have a CCS that is not doing well. My 20-gallon tank is just over 6 months old, and Choco has been living there for just under 3 months. He shares his habitat with a bi-color blenny, yellow wrasse, tomato clown, and everything that lives on and in the 25 lbs. of live rock in my tank.
<<Ok.>>
Every time I have had a tank emergency, Choco has carried through like a little trooper. However, he now seems to be wasting away. Over the past week, he has started to act sick. He has started holding himself up against the glass with two of his arms distended away from his body. Being a fairly active sea star, Choco moves about the tank quite a lot, but when he stops he curls his arms up over his belly. When I try to feed him some shrimp, I put it under his stomach, but he just creeps away from it as fast as he can (to the great joy of the clown, wrasse and blenny who have a shrimp-a-palooza until I pull the chunk out of the tank). Choco has not been willing to eat for a week, and he used to eat a lump of shrimp every 2-3 days.
<<That is odd. I see below that you've measured some parameters, but not all. What are your nitrite/nitrate readings? High levels will cause the feeding response to diminish, often significantly. Also, do you see ANY necrotic tissue? AT ALL? If so, it's time to act quickly, remove the star to a separate container (heated/filtered - bucket will do) and try treating with Spectrogram.>>
The water conditions in my tank are very stable (pH is 8.3, salinity is 25, ammonia 0). All the other fish are doing well and excited at the prospect of moving into a 55 gallon tank next month.
<<The other fishes aren't a good gauge by which to measure the parameters for any starfish, including the CCS. It's actually the other way around - starfishes tend to be the "canary in the coalmine". Assuming there have been no large shifts in pH or salinity, I can only guess at this point that nitrite/nitrate are an issue. Otherwise, the possibility of certain metals being built up exists, but have no way to test for at home. Large water changes are my usual action of choice in situations like this. Be sure it's aged, matched for pH/salinity.>>
Please help me save Choco and get him to start eating again. Thanks, Seth
<<At this point that's about the best advice I can give you, Seth. Do some water changes (do test those other parameters, ammonia's only one, and not the only one that's toxic). Have that Spectrogram on hand anyway, it's good stuff. Marina>> 

How Many Chocolate Chip Stars? & "Rant" on Aquarium Suitability of Starfish In General 4/15/05
Hello! 
<Hi. Steve Allen with you tonight.>
I love the website - it's been very helpful in the research I have been doing before I order my echinoderm. 
<I do love those echinoderms. It's great that you are responsible enough to learn first and buy later. Thousands of animals would survive if everyone would do this.> 
Now, on to my question: I have a 55-gallon tank set up and aged, and am interested in the Chocolate Chip Sea Star. <Protoreastor nodosus. Attractive and generally hardy.> 
I was wondering if three specimens would be suitable for the tank size, or if I should only order one or two sea stars. Any information you could give me would be appreciated. Thanks again! Ashley
<Well Ashley, I'd recommend only one. These are actually voracious eaters. More than one will be quite the bioload. They easily grow to 6 inches in diameter. Mine seems to be exceeding that after nearly two years (started out at about 4 inches). They can be difficult to keep alive due to nutritional issues. I hand feed mine a variety of chunks of marine fish, shellfish, and crustaceans fortified with Selcon and vitamins. 
They are not reef safe--they will eat all sessile invertebrates and any mobile ones they can sneak up on and capture. Remember to acclimate over several hours. (Some starfish species, such as Linckia laevigata, need to be drip acclimated over 6-8 hours. All starfish require excellent and stable water conditions. All are very sensitive to fluctuations in pH, oxygen or salinity for example. They will also be harmed by excessive nitrate. Read as much as you can about them before buying.
I've tried a lot of starfish over the past few years, and I've decided that most of them are best left in the sea. I would not recommend other species that you may come across in your research and shopping. Truth be told, the Chocolate Chips don't have such a great survival record themselves. Here's my short take on some of the others: The African Red-Knobbed Star (Protoreastor lincki) gets much bigger than the Chocolate Chip. I suspect they're harder to nourish too. I've had one just as long as my nodosus. I've fed it the same way, yet it has not grown at all. It does look healthy, but it won't grow. 
The vast majority of Blue Linckia (Linckia laevigata) die either before anyone gets a chance to buy them or shortly after purchase. Most other Linckia species suffer the same fate. The Sand-Sifting Star (Archaster typicus) will "sterilize" all but the largest sandbeds by eating all of the organisms, including the beneficial ones. 
For a reef-safe star, the rather small (3" or less) Fromia species are more hardy than the Linckias and are worth considering. However, Dr. Ron Shimek states that they often starve eventually after several months. My own personal experience corroborates this. I'd love to try a Double Sea Star (Iconaster longimanus), but they have a poor record as well. Same goes for Tamaria species. 
There are a lot of other species that occasionally turn up in stores and on the net (such as Mithrodia, Pentaceraster, and Nardoa). I would not recommend these to anyone other than an expert aquarist willing to set up a large tank specifically meant to support the star. There are a number of oddball seastars that turn up at some stores, many of which you cannot even determine the species of. All are not reef safe and most get very large or have unknown needs.> 

Chocolate chip starfish
Hello!! I've been reading through the information you have on the site and I've learned a lot. I am currently having a problem with my ccs and I know that it has been addressed on here, but I haven't really gotten the answer. I have a 75g tank with ten lbs of live rock. I plan on adding more live rock eventually.
<Good... will help>
I have the CCS, fire shrimp, coral banded shrimp, horseshoe crab and an emerald green crab along with one damsel. I added the inverts on the 24th of march, the damsel has been in there for a while. ON the 28th my tank spiked up with nitrites at .25 and nitrates at .10.
<... you put the livestock in an uncycled system? Not smart>
Tested the following two days and a 10% water change, everything went down besides the nitrates. They have stayed at 10, everything else is reading at 0, ph has been a steady 8.2 but did go down to 8.0 on the 28th as well.
<Good... and good notes>
Since then been back to the 8.2. SG is .22/.24 and the salinity has been between 30 and 32.
<Mmm, take care to not let these vary this much... pre-mix, store new water, top off with just fresh often...>
Temp is ranging from 78 to 80. Sorry to be so long winded. Anyway, everything else in my tank is doing fine, ( with the exception of my horseshoe crab that is in hiding right now). My CCS started twisting up his legs. He normally is at the top, with the two legs curled back, but the others legs started twisting up. He lost 2 chips and has some white stuff on him. He is looking more pink on the underside too.
<Good observations, descriptions... this animal is in trouble...>
He hasn't been moving much, but is still moving. I was target feeding him frozen brine every day, then switched to every other day. 
<... don't live on Artemia...>
He wouldn't eat at all yesterday and just now he has his stomach out eating... 
<Mmm, not likely eating.... dying>
...but that doesn't even look like it was looking, but that could be because he is up at the top with the legs bent over, where he use to cover the food with all of his feet. I'm not sure what is going on with him, or why it happened. My water seems like it is where it should be and nobody is picking on him that I can tell. Is there anything I can do for him? I don't have a quarantine tank set up yet but will do it if I have to. (How small can I go with that?) Any suggestions. Thank you in advance.
Deana
<Please (re)read this part of our site: http://wetwebmedia.com/chocchipfaqs.htm and the linked files above... prepare to remove this animal... Bob Fenner> 

Re: chocolate chip starfish
Thank you for the response. My tank had already been cycled. I was told that I would get small spikes after adding new livestock.
<Mmm, generally not... if the system is not over-crowded, over-fed... adequately filtered, circulated, aerated...>
I have kept a notebook (obviously) since I had started testing the water. We had live rock and damsels to cycle the tank. I will go back and reread and hope for the best.
Deana
<Do please read re these seastars... they are just not very suitable for the vast majority of marine aquariums... likely ninety some plus percent "just die" within a few weeks of acquisition. Bob Fenner> 

Cobwebbed Chocolate Chip
>Hello, I have never submitted a question before; just read everyone else's, but now I have one myself. 
>>Hello, Marina today.
>I have a 55 gal. system that has been running for 2 years. It is incredibly stable and only houses a bicolor blenny and a yellow tang. Both fish have been in this set-up for 1.5 years.  I am conservative when it comes to my tank and that is why I have only had the blenny and the tang for so long. 
>>I am going to assume that you are aware that eventually the tang will outgrow this tank.
>However, the other night, I decided it was time to add some life. I went to the fish store and bought a chocolate chip star and some more snails and hermit crabs to add to my cleaning crew.  The star looks great. In fact, I added him to my tank and he has been quite active since then. He seems to prefer staying attached to the glass, but moves all over the place. (I will add that I only have owned him for about 24 hrs). 
My point of concern is this: the star seems to have what I can only describe as a "cobweb" coming off of him. I touched some of this substance and it disintegrates upon touch. It looks like bubbles held together by a thin strand. The star has some of this hanging on to one of his legs and whenever he moves to a different spot on the glass, you can see the outline of his body on the glass made from this substance. 
>>Sounds like a sloughing of sorts, may be caused by poor or inadequate acclimation. Invertebrates in general are sensitive to pH and salinity changes, starfishes tend to be even more so.
>I did a search on this topic on the chat forum on wet web and found other people having similar issues, but no one had responded with an explanation. I am not sure whether I need to worry or not since the star seems to be doing fine. 
>>I would watch very closely, and have a quarantine/hospital on hand (really should have q/t'd this animal in the first place, but what is done is done), as well as Spectrogram. You MUST ensure that all parameters are MATCHED (not "matched closely").
>When I finally released him after acclimatizing him last night, he moved rather quickly along the floor of the aquarium. As I mentioned before, he has been actively moving all over the glass in my aquarium.
One further question, assuming everything could be ok with my new inhabitant and he continues to stay on the glass, what is the best way to feed him? I have read that if the star is laying on the substrate that you can lift it, lay the food down, and then place the star on top, but what about if the star prefers the glass? 
>>Cripes, I wonder how the folks who wrote such things think starfishes eat in the wild? Just put the food down near the animal, and if the fishes go to eat it, give a little more.
>The reason I ask is because he seemed to favor the glass at the fish store as well. Please let me know what you think. I have been skittish about adding anything to my living room ocean since everyone has done so well and I don't want to upset the balance now!
>>I wouldn't want to, either. 
PART TWO:
>I wanted to follow up with what I observed on my chocolate chip starfish this morning. The star has continued to be very active. We fed him last night and he responded very nicely to the food; consuming it all. He continued his travel on the glass through the night and was in a new spot this morning. 
>>Typical.
>I noticed that he has 2 "chips" that are falling off and now I am incredibly concerned. 
>>Good reason to be concerned. This is a bad sign, and it's time to work proactively. Get him out, into hospital, and start with PERFECT water quality and that Spectrogram I just mentioned.
>I mentioned in my last email about the "cobweb" like material that he leaves on the glass and that also clings to his body. I'm not sure what do at this point. I've only owned this guy for a day and a half, but I don't want further issues. While I am encouraged by his moving about and acceptance of food, I wonder how "well" he may be.
Thank you so much,
Katie
>>Katie, for a single starfish, even a bucket with a heater will do. Get him out of the tank and into hospital. The Spectrogram is the only/best means of treatment I know, and I've seen it used with amazing success with other starfishes (mostly Fromia spp.). Marina 

Cobwebbed Chocolate Chip Coming Back?
>Marina, I think my chocolate chip star is improving. 
>>Katie, that can only be good, yeah?
>I did not remove him from the tank yet. 
>>Alright, but do have the hospital bucket on the ready, most importantly have the antibiotic on hand.
>I just can't help but feel leery about that. 
>>No worries.
>When I checked him today, I noticed he had continued his trek through the aquarium and the places where the "chips" have fallen off seem to be closing up. 
>>And THAT, my friend, is what you want to see!
>I want to give him until Sunday (my next day off) to decide what to do with him. 
>>The don't "work" on our schedules, watch for further disintegration. If you see more, if you intend to keep this animal long-term, no dilly-dallying around, MOVE, and move immediately. Have everything at the ready.
>I have been unable to find Spectrogram in any of the local stores so I hope he'll continue to improve. 
>>Me, too. You may have to buy online (ask them to start carrying it, it's good schtuff!).
>He doesn't look too bad and I don't see anymore "cobwebs" hanging on him either. I think I will try to feed him tonight and see how he responds to that. It seems to me that if he continues to move around the tank and eats that that could be a positive sign. 
>>Mm... could be, but in my experience they may continue to move and consume, all the while dying. If they continue to disintegrate and it hits the central disc then it's a lost cause. I strongly advise NOT waiting until it gets that far.
>I did call the place that I bought him from and they admitted that he hadn't been fed very much while in the store. Cross your fingers for me. I've read that they are fairly resilient so hopefully this guy will be ok. If he doesn't seem better by Sunday, I'll put him in the bucket and take him back to the store. They said they'd be willing to take him back. 
>>Alright, no worries there. What's actually MOST important here is water quality, and NO shock via pH or salinity changes - I cannot emphasize this strongly enough.
>Thanks again, Katie
>>You're welcome, and I've got my fingers crossed for you (but not while typing.. tried it, doesn't work). Marina