New tank, Refugium Setup 4/26/08
Hi! Appreciate all of the info and all of the responses I have gotten from you guys already. Thanks a bunch!
<You’re welcome, happy to assist.>
Anywho, I am cycling my 3rd tank in a little over a year.
<Wow, a fellow addict!>
I have two set up now, one being the 30, and the other that I just got done cycling about 2 weeks ago that is a 54 corner. I plan on moving everything into the 54. I don't have a skimmer on the 54 yet, its still on the 30 right now, but I do have a CPR hang on tank refugium. What is really weird, is that I am only getting the brown algae in the refugium.
<This is common, usually due to lack water flow or the lighting in the refugium being more conducive to the growth.>
The main tank looks fantastic, just a little bit of the brown on the LR and LS, but not nearly as much as in the refugium. Is it ok like that for now, or should I be worried?
<Nothing to worry about. Most tanks go through this phase, do take step towards controlling the nutrients that fuel this if you are not already.>
Also, how much good do you think 20 pounds of LS, 4 pounds of LR and some spaghetti macro algae will do to control nitrates?
<That is not much sand, but should be deep enough (at least 3”, preferably 4”+) in the hang on refugium to achieve some nitrate reduction.>
Thanks once again!
<Welcome, have fun, Scott V.>

Refugium algae bloom 3-22-08
Hi Crew,
<Mike here>
My refugium setup has been running for less then month and I have already seen a lot of positive changes.
<Nice>
Decreasing nitrates being one of them! Pods multiplied nicely and the Chaetomorpha is growing. I have about a dozen Nassarius snails now.
<In the 'fuge?>
My question is about an algae bloom. There is green algae growing all over the top of my refugium's DSB (none in main display). It looks like the algae and the slim is preventing the gas bubbles coming up form the sand to escape. Should I get an organism(s) that will consume the slime algae? Any other suggestions?
<Sounds like lack of water movement/sand sifting. Nassarius spp. snails will stir the top layer of sand fairly effectively, as well some brittle star species. Take care of these issues and the slime algae should disappear>
Thank you once again,
Peter
<M. Maddox>

Replacing Old Sand Bed in Refugium 12/27/07
Hello,
<Hi>
I am planning on changing out my old sand bed (5yrs) for a new one and have a concern that this would cause my tank to start a cycle.
<Yes most likely, at least to some degree.>
I have a 180g SPS tank with a 40g refugium and a 20g sump, there is 250 pounds of live rock in display and another 50 in the refugium. Do you think taking the refugium offline and changing the sand (about 60 pounds) then putting it back inline would cause harm to my inhabitants.
<May see a ammonia/nitrite spike as the bacteria inhabiting the old sand bed is removed.>
As far as equipment I run a Deltec 851 skimmer , Deltec reactor with Rowaphos and a Deltec calcium reactor. I just want to make sure I do not crash the tank.
<Unlikely, I would guess the existing bacterial population will quickly increase to make up for the removed sand bed. Within a few days I would guess you will be back to normal.>
Thanks
Mike Winston
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Re: Replacing Old Sand Bed in Refugium 12/27/07
Thanks, would it help to add the top 2 inches of my existing bed to the new sand?
<Yes in that it would add back some bacteria and micro-fauna, but you will probably still see a small cycle.>
<Chris>

High Nitrates with a New Sump/Refugium 10/17/07
Folks:
<Hello Tim>
I hope that this is a new question - I tried to search your good Q&A before submitting a new question.
I have had a 75 gallon FOWLR marine aquarium for about 18 months now. I have been foolishly maintaining this tank with only mechanical filtration and a small HOT refugium with a DSB and macroalgae. As you could expect, nitrates have been a consistent problem.
Two weeks ago, I finally installed a large sump and refugium under my tank.
I filled the bottom of the sump with mineral mud and have a large, football sized mass of Chaetomorpha and red Gracilaria macroalgae. The sump is well lit with a clip-on "plant light" on a flexible neck that I can point right at the macroalgae. On the side of the sump with my powerhead and protein skimmer, I have ten black mangroves at various stages of maturity.
I have not done any water changes since kicking off the new sump because I wanted to be able to tell if the sump was lowering nitrates. After two weeks, I am seeing no improvement! My nitrates are still ridiculously high - at least 100 ppm.
Is it time to search for problems? How long will it take for this sump to begin to reduce nitrates?
Thanks,
Tim
<My first recommendation is to continue with water changes and stay on a maintenance schedule. The sand bed should be about 4" deep or greater. The flow should be less that 2000gph and closer to 1500gph. Too swift of a flow impedes the reduction of nitrate. As far as the time frame...I would judge progress after 60 days. The nitrates are removed by obligatory heterotrophic bacteria and their colonies take time to be established. Other chemical processes also take place and those functions also take some time to reach equilibrium. I would also strongly recommend the use of Activated Carbon and an Iron Based Phosphate Resin like Warner Marine's phoSar. This will help maintain water quality by removing additional dissolved organics (DOC's). If you are not using a protein skimmer, I would suggest the use of one rated for a 200g system. A protein skimmer will also remove additional DOC's. Hope this helps-Rich aka Mr. Firemouth>

Refugium...Disconnecting From The Main Display  9/27/07
Hi Guys.
<Hi Ghulam, Mich here.>
Hope all is well.
<Hanging in there.>
My question is regarding my DIY refugium.
<OK.>
I would like to separate it from my main system which is a reef system because cash is a bit tight these days for me as I have been spending it on the house, and I would like to spend less on salt & chemicals.
<OK. Though I do question the functionality of doing this.>
Anyway, back to my main question...would my algae in the refugium stay alive if I don’t do any water changes for months & since its not getting the usual nutrients from the main system?
<Yes it should stay alive if there is an appropriate light source, which presumable you already have. The algae should be fine without water changes as well.>
I hope you understand what I mean.
<Yes. I do understand what you mean, and you should be fine here. Though I'm not sure that disconnecting it from the main display really makes sense.>
Thanks in advance.
<Welcome! Mich>
Ghulam

Refugium Confusion...Should It Be Fed?...Should It Receive Water Directly From The Display?...Yes To All! – 08/20/07
Good evening Crew.
<<Hello Andy>>
For the 359th time, I have a couple questions.
<<Okey-dokey>>
I've been surfing WWM but no luck. I have a 30g fuge that is fed from my sump (after bio balls) via a MaxiJet 1200. Head is probably 30" to fuge. Return is via 1" bulkhead that feeds back to my sump near the main pump return. My fuge has 6lbs live rock, 4-6" DSB and a large tuft of Chaeto. There are lots of worms, copepods and amphipods and tiny brittle stars.
<<Sounds good!>>
I know that at least some of the pods are getting into my display because I see them in my sump.
<<yes>>
Anyway . . .
1. Should I be "feeding" my fuge?
<<I believe it to be beneficial, yes. The “critters” will multiply/maintain higher population densities if fed>>
I haven't found much on maintaining pods, and I have to believe that they must eat something (phytoplankton?).
<<Some are quite the carnivores...maybe even eating their young if not well fed>>
Should I be dosing with DTs or something and, if so, how often?
<<You can simply add a pinch or two of flake food a couple to three times a week...but I have found that shrimp pellets are quite the “favorite” among the denizens of my refugium>>
2. I have had my fuge set up for 2 months or so. My Chaeto hasn't grown one bit. It isn't dying either. Just kind of maintaining the status quo. I have 0 nitrates. After reading all these posts about people having to constantly cut back their macro, I feel like an underachiever. Any thoughts?
<<Mmm, this may be due to the absence of “excess” nutrients in the system...and likely a result of feeding “processed” water to the ‘fuge from the sump. You can try increasing the light intensity above the Chaetomorpha to see if this stimulates growth>>
Also, it seems WWM advocates feeding the fuge directly from the display.
<<”Raw” source water is preferable, yes>>
What's the benefit?
<<The efficiency of the refugium is increased/the refugium better augments the other filtration when fed directly from the display>>
My guess is that the filter media removes dissolved organics that the macro need, but if bio-balls are nitrate producers and macro loves nitrate...
<<A valid point, but you state your Chaetomorpha is living, just not growing... providing water to the refugium directly from the display will lessen the burden on the rest of the filtration system while stimulating growth of the Chaetomorpha which will then allow pruning/removal of the absorbed compounds...and will also likely result in increased diversity/populations of refugium biota which too provide benefits to the system...>>
I don't want to do this because I'm afraid of flooding, etc. if/when the power does go out, lose siphon, etc.
<<Not a problem if plumbed correctly...you made the same considerations/took the same precautions with plumbing your sump, yes?>>
How much benefit am I losing if I feed post-bio balls?
<<As stated>>
Thanks!
Andy Bulgin
<<Happy to assist. Eric Russell>>

Aiptasia ID/Refugium Cycle – 07/24/07
Good morning Crew.
<<Greetings Andy>>
I have two questions that I wanted to run by you.
<<Okay>>
A few months ago, I e-mailed a picture of an anemone that I noticed on a piece of live rock. It was small, so Bob had a hard time identifying it but guessed that it was a "rock anemone". I Googled "rock anemone" but wasn't able to find a picture that looks exactly like the anemone that I have (actually, there are three on the same rock, in close proximity to each other--they are very small. The largest is maybe 1/2" across. I've been carefully watching this piece of rock now for 3 months to make sure that it doesn't start sprouting new anemones, just to be safe. So far, I haven't noticed any multiplication of organisms.
<<Okay>>
Anyway, today I was Googling "Aiptasia" and found a picture that IS my anemone.
<<Oh?>>
It's the 5th picture at
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/organismstoavoid.html
<http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/organismstoavoid.html> .
As you can see, this website claims that my anemone is indeed Aiptasia, and I was wondering if you agree.
<<You are in the best position to make that assertion. Aiptasia are VERY common in the hobby. These are definitely an Aiptasia species and if this is what your anemone looks like, well then...>>
If so, I'll begin the extermination process.
<<Better now than later...>>
Most Aiptasia I have seen are cream colored and clear with no striations like the one in this picture and have long, wavy/flimsy looking tentacles--very different than the anemone shown in this picture.
<<Differing species>>
Second question relates to my refugium. I set it up within the last month. It’s 30-gallons with a deep sand bed, a few pieces of live rock and some Chaetomorpha.
<<Sounds good>>
So far things are going well--it is teaming with Copepods and this morning I noticed several creatures that look like Amphipods scurrying around the sand.
<<Very likely>>
However, green/brown Diatom algae is starting to cover my sand, and I was wondering whether I should let this algae run its cycle or add some snails or other organisms that
won't prey on my pods to clean it up?
<<You can do either, though “I” would not be concerned here and let the ‘fuge continue to cycle/increase its bio-diversity (including the diatoms).>>
Thanks!
Andy
<<Happy to assist. EricR>>

I had inquired about setting up a sump/refugium in a basement directly below a main tank on the main floor of my house.  7/2/07
My question relates to a response from one of your crew members to an email that I had sent previously. I was hoping to get another's opinion.
<Please let me try to clarify my previous response. If that doesn't help, I'm sure someone else here would be happy to give you another perspective.>
I had inquired about setting up a sump/refugium in a basement directly below a main tank on the main floor of my house. Since I am in the research stage, and do not have any experience with a sump, I am unsure of how a water change regimen would work with this setup.
<There's really no one way to do it. In my last response, I explained why many people with sumps prefer to do water changes from the sump. As for the size and frequency of the water changes, that's going to depend on your tank's needs (depending on bioload, filtration methods used, etc.). However, most would recommend something like at least 30% water changes once a month (or better yet, at least 15% twice a month). To a point, more is usually better.>
I don't know if it is performed from the sump, or the main, or both.
<Like I tried to explain in my last email, there are pros and cons to doing the change from the sump or the display. Doing the water change from the sump is less likely to cause an inadvertent overflow or dry-out (please see my previous response for an explanation of why this is). Doing water changes from the display has the advantage of being able to "vacuum" the tank as you change the water. So it really just depends on what you personally prefer to do.>
Ideally I would like to make all the water and keep all the "stuff" in the basement (ie - out of sight). The response from one of your crew members seemed to say that when performing water changes I would be running up and down the stairs to avoid either an overflow, or pumping the sump dry.
<Ok, I apologize for not being more clear. When I was talking about running up and down stairs to avoid overflow/dry-out problems, I was trying to explain why people do water changes from the sump. I didn't necessarily intend this as a reason why you shouldn't put your sump in the basement.>
The overall impression from the response was to avoid the basement setup and go with a sump in the stand. Do you agree with that?
<I'm sorry, I didn't mean this at all. There are pros and cons of both set-ups. As I mentioned, many people very much enjoy having their sumps in their basements. Theoretically, you should be able to do all the same work with a sump in the basement as with a sump under the tank.>
Would I be doing as much work on the main as I would in the sump? I am fortunate to have a house with a basement, a spouse who loves the end results of this hobby and who is willing to let me use whatever space I need in the basement. It seems to me that many of the people posting on WWM would be jealous of this situation!
<If you want to put your sump in your basement, then that's what you should do.>
Would you please provide your thoughts on basement sumps? Pros/cons in your opinion?
<In terms of being able to care for your tank, it really doesn't make much a difference. The pro of having the sump upstairs is the convenience of having everything in one spot. Also, if your "sump" is going to be more like a refugium, sometimes people become quite proud of their refugiums and actually prefer to have them upstairs (almost as an additional display). The pro of having the sump in the basement is, as you've pointed out, having it out of sight and with more room. You also have less noise upstairs if most your equipment is in the basement. Another thing to consider is the temperature of your basement. Most people have basements much colder than the rest of the house. If you tend to have problems keeping your tank cool, this might be another pro for having the sump in the basement. However, if you have trouble keeping your tank warm, then it would be a con for having the sump in the basement.
As you're going to find with many things in reef keeping, no one can honestly tell you with certainty which way is always better. The hobby is filled with choices that have equally weighted pros and cons and depend a lot on personal preferences. The choice of putting the sump upstairs or downstairs is one of these choices.>
Does Anthony Calfo's Book of Coral Propagation get into setup/plumbing such as this?
<I don't know if it specifically talks about the pros/cons of sumps under the tank or in the basement, but it's probably a good book to have anyway. :-) >
Thank you for thoughts. For some perspective, I will be upgrading my
main tank from a 55 gallon to a 75 gallon, and using the 55 gallon to
create the sump/refugium.
<Congrats. :-)>
Kind regards,
Kim
<Best,
Sara M.>

Refugium Mystery Cloud! – 06/28/07
Hello,
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
My name is Steve and this is my first time e-mailing for help.
<Welcome to WWM, Steve!>
I have a 75 gallon saltwater tank with a hang on refugium that has been giving me problems for the past month.
About 3 weeks ago, I noticed a cloud suspended about a quarter of the was up my refugium.
I also noticed a rancid smell coming from the refugium. I did 99% water change in the refugium and added about another inch of live sand to the refugium everything was fine for
about a week then the cloud reappeared. Hoping you can give me some ideas on how to correct this and keep it from reappearing again.
Thanks in advance, Steve
<Well, Steve, without knowing some basic water parameters, I'm kind of taking a wild guess. Cloudiness and foul odor in my experience usually points to just a few things: First, it could be some kind of bacterial bloom. Did any fish or inverts die and go undetected in there? How is the circulation in the refugium? Perhaps the previous layer of substrate had some anaerobic activity that was disturbed and this was the source of the foul smell and cloudiness? If you have some species of macroalgae in there, such as Caulerpa, it could have possibly been a sporulation event (release of cellular material into the water during reproductive cycle). Lots of possibilities here; unfortunately, I couldn't put my finger on one without a lot of detail. My advice is to do some detailed analysis regarding what the conditions were in the refugium before the cloud, and then afterwards. Ask yourself if there was a single event, such as an animal loss, power failure, etc. that could have triggered this. By thinking "backwards", you may very well arrive at the solution. Let us know if we can help any further! Regards, Scott F.>
 

I want a beautiful refugium - 5/25/07 Hi Guys, <…and Gals!> This isn't my first email about refugiums. As a matter of fact, it's my third. Either I'm a total idiot, or  refugiums are impossible to run! <Hopefully neither of these.> This is my 3rd attempt. Is this rocket science or what??? <Hmmm.  Let's see if we can have an "aha!" moment.> Each time I set up my refug., it stagnates. The plants die, the water grows thick with disgusting bubbles ,  and I take it down again. <The photos do show you seem to be having a problem with stagnation.  What I can’t tell from the photos is where the water flow is supposed to be coming from and going to.  A refugium should have a pump pushing water from the tank into the refugium and then some sort of overflow to return it to the tank.  It should never get stagnant, but should have water constantly flowing through it.  In the photo, I see no sign of a pump or return, and the water level does not appear to be high enough to be spilling back into the tank.  Is the pump pumping? Is the water flowing?  If it is flowing, but too slowly, then get a better or larger pump. You want the volume turned over a few to several times per hour.  This is a small volume, so does not require a huge pump, but does need to be flowing vigorously.> Have I said enough? Should I be emailing Drs. Foster & Smith, since this is where I bought it. But it doesn't really matter, does it? <The photos of the current offerings on their website have pretty obvious flow patterns.  I don’t see one like yours.  If this doesn’t help you straighten it out, then certainly contact them, they should be able to help you.> This is a $250.00 headache! Advice is needed again! <Hope this helps.  Alex> I want a beautiful refugium - cont'd - 5/27/07 Okay, this was such a simple solution, why didn't the other pros on board at wetwebmedia.com see it?? <Well, the pictures you sent did help. Without them, I wouldn't have had a clue. And of course, sometimes the simple things are the hardest to see.> I have been looking for a solution for a year!!! Now, the refugium is running swiftly the way it should! <Excellent!> I'm hopeful the bubbles will clear and the sludge will subside, for I've only had this (3rd) attempt set up for 2 weeks or so. The only problem now (yes, there's always another problem) is to get the skimmer to work. You see, changing the powerheads presented me with a problem. I'm looking for a way to create bubbles into the chamber. And as we all know, different manufactures make it almost impossible to interchange parts. <Hmm. So the old powerhead had a venturi intake and the new one doesn't I suppose. If you use the original powerhead to power the skimmer, could you maybe use the second one to just add additional flow to the refugium, putting the water in behind the skimmer somehow? Maybe with a piece of flexible hose? This might be too complicated, but skimmers can be so finicky, I don't know if it will skim with the higher flow rate pump. Maybe if you can get a venturi going on the new one. Good Luck!> It WAS "rocket science" to get this new powerhead to fit on the refugium,.....ahhhh, how frustrating!! <Heee. Yes, that can be fun!> So, that's it for now. Thank you for your help, Alex! You get the gold star for today!!!!! Pam <Gee. Thanks Pam! Alex>

Refugium Dilemma... bubbles,   5/24/07 Hello.  again.  I had added a refugium for my 10 gallon nano tank.  I used an Eclipse 6 gallon acrylic tank putting a bulkhead on the side.  The refugium has a 4 inch sand bed, the Chaeto is growing quickly and so is everything in the 10 gallon tank.  The issue is the overflow which has been a thorn in my side from the get-go.  And even though I read a lot, looked at numerous pictures of other refugiums set above or next to a tank I'm still having issues.  In the beginning the bulkhead only had a strainer but the water flow only covered half the bulkhead diameter and so there were numerous bubbles getting in the tank.  Seeking the help from the guys at the LFS one suggested a filter sock.  Being huge I cut it and sewed one small enough to allow adequate water flow.  It worked at first then micro bubbles started seeping through.  I read about baffles and tried making a mini baffle.  That too worked at first but the bubbles started getting into the tank again after a couple days.  Now during this time the water level in the 10 gallon was about an inch below the black frame on the edge of the tank, lower than it's ever been, but that had to be because if the pump stopped the remaining water in the refugium would fill the 10 gallon but not overflow.  Frustrated, I asked another guy at the LFS and he suggested a 90 degree elbow on the refugium side.  After somewhat awkward priming of that voila it worked no more bubbles.  I have a container for RO water in the cabinet above the tank which is filled daily and the drip tube set so that it takes a full 24 hours to drip the water into the tank which maintains the water levels safely compensating for evaporation.  The tank is set right next to me on my home office desk and one day glancing over I noticed the main tank level dropping and the refugium level climbing.  What the???  I quickly unplugged the pump and found that air got into the bulkhead.   <Yikes... fortunate you were there to catch this in time> Something I did not realize would be an issue.  After some lengthy contemplation on how to prevent a major catastrophe for my tank inhabitants I moved the pump from the bottom of the tank to as close to the top of the 10 gallon tank as possible so if an accident did occur the pump would run out of water to pump and my corals and shrimp would be safe and as the water level in the refugium is pretty low I might only have a very minor flood.  All that said.  I now understand why in the only picture I could find on the internet of a refugium set slightly higher than the display tank it had 3 bulkhead outlets at 3 different heights - for the proverbial "What If". <Ah, yes> Having been there and done that. can you please help with some additional ideas? <Will try> I had purchased an overflow U-tube and I was considering to make small boxes (as seen on diagrams found on the internet) to put on each end that would allow water in and if something went wrong would still hold the water in the tube and have the bulkhead which is set higher in the tank as the backup.  Here are pictures of the setup.  Thanking you again and in advance for your help.  Regards, Debbie <Well, thank you for sharing your insights, attempts at solving... Am concerned with the possible ruining of the pump here... Don't actually "like" the overflow U-tubes period... would encourage your adding another bulkhead... Bob Fenner> Main Tank: Overflow into tank; pump in background near top; nano filter for mechanical only; hose along back and right side providing water flow from different directions. Refugium side

Re: Refugium dilemma... part 2   5/24/07 Bob, <Dan> Thank you again.  I had read that you were not a big fan of U tubes but thought with a bulkhead backup it might be okay. <Might...> With that said, I also considered a second bulkhead but much smaller in diameter.  The pump I'm using is a Mini-Jet 404 and set at it's highest which is I believe 104 gph.  I would think that using a half inch bulkhead just below (and next too... not directly below) <Mmm, off to the side... and let's settle on a bit larger ID, 3/4"> the current one inch bulkhead would allow water to completely cover the opening because it allows for lower gallons per hour water movement thus eliminating bubbles.  I did find an article where the person had the same issue but was concerned more with the overflow and not the bubbles and devised what's in the picture below. <Yes, a drilled pipe intake screen...>   Also here is the link to the complete article:  http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/bulkhead_modifications.html <Folks can look up/at... this pic is someone elses work>   Have you seen this or heard of this being utilized before? <Oh yes>   Do you think it would work? <Yes, can... the longer intake, more holes, give the bubbles time, a greater chance of coalescing...> The only change I would make is placing holes in the sides and bottom and none at the top. <Mmm, I'd have some at the top... to preclude cavitation, and its inherent problems...> I think at this point my best bet is to take your suggestion and test it out in some in expensive plastic containers the same capacity as both tanks... I have an extra Mini-Jet 404... and play around until I get the results I need before taking the refugium down. <Ah, yes>   But I'll wait on your reply regarding the use of a much smaller bulkhead as the main flow.  Thank you again.  Regards,  Debbie <Thank you for your ongoing, intelligent (clear, concise, complete) communicative sharing. Bob Fenner>

Heavy Nutrient Issues and Refugium Questions.  – 05/07/07
Greetings,
<Jason.>
     I have a few questions about my refugium.  
<Okay.>
I have a 60 gallon FOWLR with a sand bed ~4 inches deep.
I've added on a CPR Refugium to help reduce our nitrate levels which have come down from 80 to 40 over the past 6 months or so since I added the refugium.  
<Still very high though, I would be supplementing with frequent and large water changes my friend. As well as trying to find out what the source is; to much livestock? Overfeeding? Not enough water changes? Poor source water? A Build up of nutrients or detritus somewhere in the system? Are you using a protein-skimmer?>
The refugium itself has about a 3 inch sand bed with some live rock and some Chaetomorpha.  So here are my questions:
1.  I can't seem to keep the Chaetomorpha anchored.  It always seems to float to the top of water and the lights end up baking it.  Any ideas?
<Well Chaeto does not use hold-fasts it is a tumbling weed. I would not try to anchor it but I would increase the water flow in the fuge to keep the mass tumbling.>
Currently i <I> have a couple of live rocks on top of it.
<That’s not how this “beast” operates my friend…it is meant to be free floating.>
2.  I have some brown hair algae that has been pretty persistent in the refugium.  
<High nutrient levels and poor water flow are a bad combination.>
I put some turbo snails in the refugium a while ago and they did a good job on it but one day they all ended up in the outflow tube and the refugium ended up overflowing overnight and shorting out  most of the electrical to the entire tank, so i've <I’ve> been hesitant to put anything back in there (any suggestions?).
<I think you need to increase your water-flow, and star on a “hardcore” water change regime. I wouldn’t add any animals to the refugium…if there's something in there you don’t like remove it manually.>
  I've added some PhosX pads to the refugium and they may have helped but not tremendously.  
<Yes this well help the symptoms but not the main issue…you need to find the source of your nutrient issues.>
3.  My local fish store has  told me that once the refugium gets the nitrate levels down to 0-20 we won't need to change the water anymore.  Any truth to that?
<Not at all my friend, it may decrease the frequency and amount you have to change, but eliminate them…hardly.>
Lastly and unrelated to refugiums.  What are some good choices for a cleanup crew for removing fish waste from the superficial sand layers?  
Currently we have a bunch of turbo snails and a few (3 or 4) super Tongan Nassarius snails and an emerald crab.  We had an electric blue hermit crab that recently kicked the bucket.
<Well invertebrate life isn’t going to last long in tank with such heavy nutrients, though I am a fan of the Nassarius snails. That is the first and foremost issue here. I also am under the impression that the tank needs more water flow on the whole, if wastes/detritus is settling into the sand; you don’t have enough water flow to keep it suspended…and maybe your sand is to coarse.>
Thank you guys for all of your help, never does a week go by where I don't utilize your website to some extent!!
<Thank you and keep reading.>
Jason
<Adam J.>

Refugium Causing Cyanobacteria and Nitrates?  3/28/07
Hi,
<Hello Brian>
Thanks, as always, for your great site!
<Welcome>
I have a 75 gallon tank (fish, live rock, 2 clams, 1 anemone, lots of snails & hermit crabs) with a CPR Aquatics AquaFuge Pro underneath.  The refugium has a DSB comprised of miracle mud, a cheaper type of generic miracle mud, and some coarse sand/crushed shells.
<Mmm, all mixed together? I would NOT do this>
  About two days after
I installed the refugium, I put in a big mat of Chaetomorpha (sp?) algae.  I ran the lighting 24/7
<Mmm... this algae is not able to "do" the light reactions of photosynthesis constantly... needs a daily dark phase...>
(I believe it's an 18w 10000k).  After about a week, the algae started to turn brown, then it started to come apart (small pieces were accumulating in the mesh between the main compartment of the refugium and the sump), then red slime started to grow on the algae, then the red slime spread throughout the refugium, then the algae almost disappeared entirely.  Now, the red slime is out of control in the refugium, the algae is almost gone, and the nitrates in the tank are at 40 ppm (they used to be stable under 10 ppm at all times).  What's going on?  Do I need to add some kind of critters down there to keep the slime under control and to keep the nitrates lower?
If so, sand-sifting stars, snails?
<Uhh... Please read here re Refugiums: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
... and re-read my comments above. Bob Fenner>
Please help.
Thanks,
Brian

Terrible mess!! Refugium Problems 3/22/07
Hi everyone!
<Hello Pam>
Now, I know there are a zillion articles on refugiums,
<More than that:)>
and I have even emailed you about this particular problem, BUT, the problem still exists!
<Not good.>
I siphoned all the water from my refugium, took out the scum, sludge and low tide stench goop, removed top two inches of sand, and started with new plants, Chaetomorpha algae.
Not only are the Chaetomorpha algae turning brown with the same sludge, the entire unit has become brown with the same conditions as before. it took only one week for this to start turning bad AGAIN!
<One important question.  What are you using for light over the fuge?>
This is a hang on refug. with 5 inches of live sand, and "MUD'' together.
<Would not mix dissimilar products, grain size, composition, etc.  I would redo and stick with Miracle Mud, about two inches
deep will do.>
The skimmer is producing but not to a great degree.
<Cleaning the skimmer, especially the riser tube, will make skimming much more efficient.>
I am also surprised by the lack of flow in the refug. It just seems to barely break over the built in partitions to flow back into the tank.
I am so frustrated by this.
<Refugiums should not have a high water flow, in your HOB, 100gph should be fine.>
It is no easy task to break down a refugium. It's just a  terrible mess.
What's wrong? !!
I hope you have the answer!!!
<Wish you would have provided more info, such as water parameters, frequency of water changes, bio-load, ample supply of critters in
the refugium, etc.  Do provide and I may be able to steer you in the right direction.>
thank you!
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Pam
 

Re:  Refugium Problems 3/23/07 Okay "Salty" how's this:               REFUGIUM:  AquaFuge External Hang-On Refugium   25-1/2"L x 4-1/2"W x 12"H CoraLife 50/50 28watts over refug. @14hr/day CaribSea Mineral Mud, recommendations were to sandwich mud between 2 layers of LS. Total, 5inches. <Is the 5" depth recommended by CaribSea?  Unless a very healthy abundance of critters are present in the sand/mud, problems such as you are experiencing can/will happen.  Personally, I'd go no deeper than 3".> Chaetomorpha algae Tank 75 gallons / 7 yr set up/ reef 70lbs LR 2in/LS Abundant (aka Tons of....) mushrooms, Discosoma species, thriving  Rhodactis indosinensis, polyps etc. CoraLife actinic & 10,000K/65 watts ea. burning @ 14 hrs/day <130 watts of lighting is weak for a 75 gallon tank, and does aid in promoting nuisance algae growth. Outside of the one pic of algae growth, the health of your corals is certainly not indicative of your problems.  Are you stretching it a bit?  Your tank appears very healthy from what I see in the pics.> Various crabs, tons snails, etc. 3 1/2 in clowns, tiny! 3 Amblyglyphidodon aureus ( like to get rid of them, but can't catch the suckers!) <Yes, pretty quick aren't they?  Not one of my favorites as well.> 1 Pseudochromis water changes every 2 weeks @ 25 gallons <Great> I clean the skimmer w/ hot water. <Hot water not necessary, a bottle brush or similar to remove the sludge in the riser tube is all that is necessary.> Last numbers recorded:  3/12/07 dKH  4m/L pH    8.1 and stable Calcium 360 Salinity 1.027 That's about it. I hope this info helps! PS Expect some pictures from Picasa right behind this letter!! <Pam, from what I see, your lighting needs to be increased.  In the meantime, I'd lower the photo period to 12 hours.  No mention of a clean-up crew, very helpful in controlling nutrients, uneaten food, etc.  May want to consider employing a Lawnmower Blenny to help control the nuisance algae.> Thanks, <You're welcome, and thank you for the wonderful pics.  James (Salty Dog)> Pam Anderson Re:  Refugium Problems 3/23/07 Now you have the specs and the pictures Salty!!! <Thank you Pam, makes helping much easier.  James (Salty Dog)> Pam Anderson

Re:  Refugium Problems 3/25/07
Salty, I feel a bit  offended  by your statement, "Are you stretching it a bit? (read below)
Stretching what? The truth? ???
<Pam, Pam, no need feeling offended, is not what I meant.  My statement was based on what appears to be a very healthy tank.
Very few people will have algae free tanks.  Is why we sometimes employ specific eaters of such.  I myself have a little clump of macro here and there, but I feel it adds a splash of color in the system.  As long as nutrients are under control, as mine are, you should not have an explosive growth of the algae in question.  By "stretching it a bit", I meant that your tank is not as bad as it seems to you.  My apologies if you took this wrong.>
You also seem to have lost site of my problem, which is the refugium, not the main tank. The main tank is quite healthy. I have abundant macro algae and  recent growth of grape Caulerpa.
<Did not lose sight of your problem, as I did make a suggestion in one of the earlier queries.>
My problem is with the sludge build up in the refugium.
Carib Sea did not recommend the 5 inches total sand and MUD.
<Didn't think so.>
I posed this question weeks ago, to you guys.  I asked if 5in of live sand and MUD was too deep.  JustinN responded, but did not say it was bad OR good. Instead, he suggested I go with the Chaetomorpha not feather Caulerpa ............. also, losing site of the question!! ?? !!
I know you guys are more than likely inundated with email questions. But please don't insult me by insinuating that I am stretching the truth.
<Again, no insult intended, in fact I must commend you on the looks of your system.  I personally feel that 5 inches of sand bed is too much.  Bad things
can happen such as what is happening to your ref.  Deep sand beds can only work properly if the sand is teeming with critters continually stirring/sifting
through the sand.  Otherwise it can become a hydrogen sulphide/nitrate factory.  The "sludge" you mentioned earlier is indicative of what I am saying
to you.  James (Salty Dog)>
Pam

Re:  Refugium Problems 3/26/07
Thank you Salty!!
<You're welcome.  Once this is done, I believe you will find improvement in your refugium.>
I was feeling a bit wounded by your statement. Now I understand what you meant.
I will syphon a few inches from the refug., for it IS a hydrogen sulphide/nitrate factory, all over again!
Best regards!
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Pam

Cycling Refugium With BioSpira (But why?) 3/14/07
Hi All,
<Hi, "D". GrahamT here.>
I have set up a 6 gallon Eclipse tank as a refugium for my 10 gallon nano reef.  
<I love refugiums... and adding volume for that matter.>
I started the cycling about 2 weeks ago using a piece of frozen shrimp to get the ammonia in there (Left it in for 1 week then removed).  
<Wait. You are cycling a refugium? This doesn't compute. If you are adding more volume in the form of a refugium to one system, and it is destined to contain exactly the same water as the main system, then why would we cycle it separately??? (Or at all)>
My LFS usually carries BioSpira but they were out and said it was on order.  This past weekend I went back only to find they just placed the order and it would be another 2 weeks... so I ordered BioSpira from Drs. Foster and Smith online Saturday P.M.  Product shipped Monday, received the package overnight A.M.; products still cold, well packaged great service by the way). I took a reading on the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates and of course they all top the charts.  
<Well, of course...>
I added some of the BioSpira (the 1 oz is for 30 gallons and this is only 6) with plans to add some more later. (Package clipped tightly closed and replaced in fridge.)  Then later add some Right Now! by HDLtd which I have found really helps in knocking down the nitrates.  
<Not sure how that could be. Isn't "Right Now!" a live bacteria (like Bio-Spira)? It doesn't claim to contain any anoxic or anaerobic  bacteria capable of reducing Nitrates.>
But while doing a search on the WWM site for BioSpira I ran across the sentence...""They, and the microbes in the BioSpira were poisoned, hemolyzed in the fishes' case, by the ammonia...""  So I became confused as to the use of BioSpira and I'm quite possibly misunderstanding the statement.  
<Nah, that's just Bob trying to scare you into cycling a tank properly. ;)> <<You are perceptive. RMF>>
But it has me thinking that by adding BioSpira to a tank high in ammonia I'm killing the beneficial microbes and in fact wasting my time adding the product.  Please clarify this for me.  If I need to do a water change to dilute the high readings somewhat before adding more BioSpira, please let me know.  
<This is news to me. Bob has just earned a forward from me. My research on hemolization tells me it can apply to this situation, but is rather vague specifically with the microbial "form". Hemolyzed red blood cells are ruptured, not sure how ammonia does this, but I am not a bio-chemist. This one is for Bob.><<Way too much ammonia/ammonium presence will kill beneficial microbes... cause hemolysis (in animals with RBC's natch). RMF>>
I was running a carbon filter.  I removed the carbon bag before adding the BioSpira.
<Not necessary, will not filter out anything that Bio-Spira metabolizes, and can actually provide a ton of surface area for the bacteria to live on.>
(Whisper inside filter because of the low water level... below bulkhead and left the bio-filter in place)  The refugium has a 4-1/2" sand bed and that is all that's in the refugium at this time.  I know I need to have all parameters in this tank identical to my main tank before even considering tying them together.  
<The simplest way to achieve this would be to fill it with water from the display and some substrate, immediately tying them together.>
I have some extra live rock from rearranging my main tank which I plan to add after the ammonia, nitrite & nitrate levels are to 0.  Then I'll add Chaeto.  Should I put a cleanup crew in my refugium?  
Move a couple snails and/or a hermit crab; was thinking to order some brittle stars to put in there.  
<Not necessary, doesn't hurt unless you worry about competition from the hermits for pods.>
The live rock has bristle worms and gammarus shrimp already.  Love the gammarus shrimp... highly entertaining and excellent scavengers.  Afterwards, my thoughts are during my main tank water changes to remove equal water from refugium and replace it with the removed water from the main tank.  Should I do this for a week or two before tying them together?   
<Would do it once and have done with it altogether. I think it's good that you worry about the condition of the 'fuge, but I think this could be going faster and smoother if you just tie-in to the main display and let everything equalize. The system wouldn't spike if you had started this way, but now you don't want to introduce the elevated levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate into your main system. Live and learn. I would be more concerned doing it this way that your 'fuge is chemically different in many ways from the display, and when you finally do "join" them, there will be a period of accelerated acclimation. That said, I think you'll still be fine, because you have a plan and you know what to look for. Good luck!
-GrahamT>
Thanks again.
Regards,
Debbie P.