FAQs on Betta Diseases/Health 20

Can't Find What I'm Looking For - Sick Betta 5/27/2008
Hello.
I've spent several hours online trying to get a specific answer about one of my new fish, and can't find what I'm looking for. Please help!
I've never had fish before. I bought a 28 gallon aquarium with everything (including 3 goldfish and 2 Corys). I traded in the goldfish for some tropical fish at the local petstore, which has always been an excellent
store. First, I did some reading and changed most of the water in the tank, put in a new filter, cleaned most of the algae ( I was told to leave a bit because it's healthy for fish), and added Cycle (good bacteria) and some water conditioner. The tank has quite a few fake plants/rocks/caves which I also carefully cleaned. It has a waterfall-type filter with a sort of bag that you empty little pouches of carbon-stuff into. I bought a water heater and set up the tank at 24 degrees Celsius. I read that many tropical fish don't like too much water movement, and the guy at the pet store said I didn't actually need the separate air pump with so few fish plus a waterfall-type filter. The air pump was also noisy, and made the tank slightly vibrate, so I took it out. The Corys seemed to be fine with everything. I bought 6 cardinal tetras and a Betta (one of those frilly black/red/blue ones). All of them were healthy and were already in the same tank at the store. I didn't know that fish should be left in the bag for a while, and the bag floated in the new tank, and the new water slowly added so the fish have a bit of time to get used to the new water - I just dumped them right in (oops). They all seemed very healthy for about 2 weeks. I noticed the water heater didn't seem all that accurate, but have kept a close eye on the separate tank thermometer I bought, and the temperature is generally around 24 degrees. I fed the Betta fish pellets for Bettas, and the other fish regular flake food, with the occasional freeze-dried shrimp for variety. I have been conditioning and adding the bacterial stuff to the water regularly, plus changing a bit of the water once in a while, but not a lot at a time. I ended up buying 5 more cardinal tetras and adding them to the tank (also dumped them in - still didn't know about doing it slowly), as the first ones got along well with the other fish, and apparently they do best in larger groups. They were the remaining cardinal tetras from the exact same tank at the pet store where I bought the first batch. Shortly after I bought them, I noticed the Corys being very lethargic and sitting at the bottom of the tank (I realize they do this on occasion, but not all the time). The Betta, who was active and had nice fanned fins before, has started spending all his time in one of the "caves", is spitting out the pellets and only eating the flake food, and his fins look dull, flat and "glued together". I have tested the pH, which is just under 8.0, and the pet store staff tested the water for everything else. All levels are completely fine. The fish guy at the store said their water is also a little alkaline, and the fish do well at the store, so this shouldn't have shocked my fish.
Four of the tetras have died. They looked fine, I just found them dead. The pet store guy told me, as the tank was clean and all measurable water levels were healthy, that my just putting them into the new tank without giving them time to adjust might have shocked them and that could have killed them, but he's not absolutely sure if that's what's wrong. I think he may be right, and the four dead fish are likely four of the five newest fish I bought. However, I don't understand how this could have affected the Corys and the Betta. I have been adding a fair amount of the Cycle, and the Corys seem to be doing better. I haven't found any more dead tetras, and the remaining ones are eating, although they are quite timid, so it's difficult to really check them out. They look like they're swimming fine. I keep the fluorescent light off most of the time, and the tank gets a decent amount of natural light during the day. As it's been hot, I've kept the curtains in that part of the room closed, and the temperature in the tank hasn't varied by much more than a degree. What I don't understand is that the Betta is not doing well. He doesn't seem to be getting better at all. He has no visible symptoms other than the ones I described. Since I got home from work today, I've noticed when he comes out of hiding to try and eat (which he isn't doing very much of) and he accidentally touches the tank glass or a rock or plant, he freaks out and sort of jumps away. He looked fabulously healthy when I bought him. I have looked everywhere online, and seen pictures of other lethargic-looking Bettas, but they always have some other visible symptoms, so this isn't helping me. My Betta's fins aren't falling off or getting shorter, his colour is the same as always, he has no growths, bloating, spots, fluff or visible parasites. I keep reading that many fish have bacterial infections, and this is a result of poor tank conditions, but both the pet store tank and mine are well-maintained and have healthy levels of stuff in the water. Should I be getting something for bacterial infections? What, exactly? I also read that sometimes these medications can do more harm than good. I'm at a loss. Do I just wait and see what happens and hope my fish recovers? Do I get an antibiotic medication? It would be a shame if he died, but I am not sure if I should medicate or take a wait-and-see approach. Do you know what might be wrong with him? Any suggestions? Sorry about the length of this request, but I wanted to forward as much information as possible.
Thanks for your time.
Evelyn
<Hello Evelyn. Given you have a variety of fishes that have died/show sickness symptoms, and across a range of species at that, it's almost certain that water chemistry and/or quality is at fault. It is very important to use your own test kits and not rely on the pet store. At the very least, buy a pH test kit and a nitrite test kit. Use them. While pH itself isn't of particular importance (most community species are fine between pH 6 to 8) what *does* matter is stability. Between water changes pH tends to go down. Ideally the drop should be minimal, but under poor circumstances the pH drops much more quickly. If the pH varies like this, you run the risk of sick fish. Use your pH test kit to test the water out of the tap, after a water change, and then once or twice across the following week, and then again before you do the weekly water change. This will give you an idea of how stable pH is. Nitrite is a good indicator of how well your filtration system is working. There should zero nitrite in the water. Sometimes people (including retailers) mention "safe" levels that aren't zero. They're wrong. Any nitrite (or ammonia) is bad. You need to use the nitrite test kit a few times across the day, because levels will change depending on when you last fed the fish. Temperature variations aren't all that important for community fish, so don't worry about that aspect of things. In the wild water temperature obviously goes up and down, and fish are able to tolerate a certain amount of change. For community fish, provided the temperature is somewhere between 22 and 26 C, it doesn't matter much precisely the number. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Can't Find What I'm Looking For - Sick Betta 5/29/08
Thanks, Neale, for the quick reply. I already have a pH test kit and will test the water over the next weeks like you suggested. I'll also buy a nitrite test kit and check out those levels myself. I'm glad you don't think I killed my fish by shock. :-) Thanks again. I'll email you again if this works or not.
Evelyn
<Hello Evelyn. All sounds like a great plan. Let me know if I can help further. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Can't Find What I'm Looking For - Sick Betta 6/5/08
Hi, Neale. Just wanted to let you know my Betta is now doing great.
<Well that's good news!>
He's almost back to his former self and is looking better every day. I only have 4 of the original 11 cardinal tetras left, but they are also very healthy now. I did test the water levels several times throughout the day for a while, like you suggested, but pH didn't fluctuate and nitrite was consistent at zero.
<Sounds as if you have things under control.>
I think what happened is I cleaned the tank TOO well (the pet store fish guy says to clean fish tanks like a man, and not like a woman ;-) ) before I put in the new fish. I mean, I SANITIZED the thing, and I don't think a capful or two of Cycle was enough...
<You don't really need Cycle if you clean the aquarium in the correct way. Whether that's a "man's way" rather than a "woman's way" isn't for me to say (though the analogy is perhaps quite insightful). The main thing is that you replace lots of water at each clean, but leave the filter media largely untouched. Lots of people go crazy cleaning and replacing filter media. The "art" to cleaning filters is to rinse off the silt (the brown stuff that makes the water cloudy) in a bucket of aquarium water. Then put the media back into the filter and switch it back on as soon as you can. You never let the media become dry, and you never leave it inside a filter switched off for more than a few minutes because the bacteria will suffocate. If you must leave the filter switched off (e.g., because you're deep cleaning the tank) then put the media in a shallow, open basin of some sort so lots of oxygen can get into the media.>
I think the fish were very healthy when I bought them, and it took a while for them to really get sick. I didn't know until too late that it takes weeks for a tank to be properly conditioned for fish. I also think the nitrite/ammonia levels may have spiked due to not enough bacteria in the water? By the time I took water to the store to be tested, the fish were already dying and I had
dumped half a bottle of Cycle in there, so no wonder everything looked fine.
<Hmm... I'm actually cynical about Cycle -- but we'll let that pass for now. I think your analysis makes a lot of sense otherwise.>
At any rate, everything is going well, and I'm slowly going to start adding fish again (carefully this time). I wanted to thank you again, and I think you guys have a great and informative site. I'm amazed you help people out for free, but I sure do appreciate it!
Evelyn
<Glad to have helped, and good luck, Neale.>

Re: Can't Find What I'm Looking For - Sick Betta 6/13/08
Hi yet again, Neale. This is NOT a high priority question, so if you have a ton of requests, don't answer this one - just looking for some specific recommendations. The original email I sent was about Corys, tetras and a Betta all being very sick. Of course, it had to be a tank problem rather than a specific disease as you said, due to no visible symptoms (other than fish looking ill and dying) and a range of species being affected. Water levels are still fine, the Betta looks very healthy, and I bought two Otos last week.
<Otocinclus are not my favourite fish. These are very difficult to maintain for any length of time, and feed pretty much exclusively on green algae, which you won't have unless your tank is really well illuminated (they don't eat diatoms or hair algae). Most specimens die in aquaria from starvation, though before that happens they often become "vampires" scraping at the bodies of other fish, eating the mucous and perhaps the blood. Otocinclus are very sociable, need to be in groups of 6+ or they end up pining away. Very much fish for highly expert aquarists able to provide the soft, highly oxygenated water they need. For the average aquarist, if you want a "small algae eater", opt for something like a single dwarf Panaque like Panaque maccus.>
I've been carefully and regularly maintaining the tank, and this problem is specific to the tetras, so I don't think it's tank condition. The 4 remaining tetras have lost most or all of their RED colour (the blue stripe is fine).
<Not good. Likely doomed.>
It's 3AM (so please ignore any gibberish you read here) and I can't seem to focus enough to read up on the scientific side of things, but is the red colour from blood vessels, and a sign of sufficient
oxygenation and circulation? So---stress or poor oxygen supply? Maybe it's neon tetra disease, as I started with a school of 11.
<Quite possible. I've long since given up with Neons, and never recommend people keep them. In my humble opinion, they're a waste of money. Like Dwarf Gouramis.>
However, I think that's a lot of cardinals to die from the disease, and especially over so long a period of time (these 4 are part of the original six I bought about 6 weeks ago).
<Yes indeed, Cardinals (and a few other tetras) can be stricken by the disease.>
They are also by turns lethargic or swimming like lunatics, and one seems to be gasping for air. As I read tonight, these fish can be difficult to keep, especially for someone new like me, so I guess it could be any of a number of causes, but I'm going to go with stress or oxygenation (unless you say otherwise, of course. :-).) I'd like to get more tetras, as I just read that reduces stress, but don't want to just have them get sick and die too.
<If you want hardy tetras, choose your species carefully. X-ray tetras (Pristella maxillaris) for example is virtually indestructible, very peaceful and not too big. There are other good species; a little reading around will reveal them. I happen to be a great fan of Bleeding Hearts (Hyphessobrycon erythrostigma), though that species is likely a little big for the small aquarium at about 5 cm/2" when mature.>
The temp is 24 - 25 degrees, so that should be OK.
<Very slightly too warm for Neons, which come from fairly cool water around the 22-24C mark.>
pH is high (close to 8.0), but the pet store has the same water and had these tetras for several weeks before I bought them, so they should be OK?
<Most tetras prefer soft water, and if you have pH 8, you likely have hard water. There are exceptions, like the X-ray Tetras mentioned above, which will do well in soft, hard, or even slightly brackish water.>
I also don't want to mess with pH unless I have to.
<No aquarist should ever directly change the pH unless they have altered the hardness first. My advice is simple on this -- if you don't know how to change the hardness (or can't change the hardness) then leave the pH alone. Fish don't really care about the pH itself provided it is stable, and messing about with "pH potions" is one way to really make your fish unhappy!>
The tank has lots of "vegetation" for the fish to hide. The waterfall-type filter is the right size for the tank, but do I need to pump air in there too?
<Not really.>
I was told "no", and was glad to hear it, as the pump that came with the tank is very loud. If you feel the tank needs additional oxygen, will you please recommend a system that works and is relatively quiet?
<Aeration doesn't actually do anything much. What oxygenates the aquarium is circulation, i.e., moving water from the bottom of the tank up to the top where it can absorb oxygen and discharge CO2. Provided the water is moving at all levels of the aquarium, your work is done here. Any decent filter should circulate the water.>
Also, any recommendations for another product besides Cycle, as you're cynical about it?
<Time is the best healer! Cut back the food, do water changes every day or two, and wait before adding any more fish. After about 3 weeks the aquarium should be settled down all by itself.>
I thought it was useful, like probiotics for fish?
<Many of these products are untested, and the claims are pretty difficult to verify anyway. The best aquarium maturation products contain live bacteria. But how long they live in those bottles, and how readily they "infect" the filter once added, is a bit up for grabs.>
Hmmm, I wonder if Consumer Reports ever did consumer research on Best Fish Tank Products?
<Perhaps they should!>
Thanks!
Evelyn
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Can't Find What I'm Looking For - Sick Betta 06/14/08
Wow, thanks Neale, for the in-depth and quick response! No reply necessary for this one, just wanted to thank you! I guess I'm in a learning curve, and will just have to do research on fish before I go to the pet store, instead of relying on the staff...
<Indeed, and why we recommend investing in an aquarium book. There are many, at all price points, and your public library should have a selection too.>
and doing research after I already have fish (like the Otos -- I have a bright tank that's also in a sunny area, and LOTS of algae, but too small for more Otos -- I definitely don't want unhappy, starving fish...my mistake again)
<It isn't impossible to keep Otocinclus, but do be aware they are difficult to feed. Algae pellets (sold for feeding Plecs) will help, but do encourage the growth of green algae and basically limit your algae removal program to cleaning the front glass.>
I believe people should own animals only if they are in the position to PROPERLY care for them, so the onus is definitely on me to not cause harm to fish through my own ignorance.
<Quite so.>
I was told freshwater tanks were easy and relatively maintenance-free, which has proven not to be true, but it's too late 'cause now I'm hooked and am really enjoying these fish and learning about them.
<Fishkeeping can be very easy. But it all depends on doing your research first and starting off with a reasonably large aquarium (say, 75 litres/20 gallons). Imagine you randomly picked three animals from a zoo and dumped them into a single small cage. You could end up with an elephant, a beetle and a penguin. Would you expect them all to get along? Nope. What people new to the hobby don't always appreciate is that retailers offer a selection from literally hundreds of species trade. Some are easy to keep, some difficult. Some have very specific water chemistry requirements, others are adaptable. Some get along with other fish, some do not. Some are small and inactive enough to do well in small tanks, some need lots of space. I have 10 gallon tanks that require nothing more that occasional water changes and daily feeding. The animals thrive (and breed) and the plants grow vigorously. The secret of success is carefully choosing the right species for such small tanks appropriate for my local water chemistry. In this case, I have very hard water, so I keep small livebearers such as Limia and Dermogenys halfbeaks, cherry shrimps, and various unusual snails like Nerites and predatory whelks. The tanks are decorated with species of plant that don't need much light, like Cryptocoryne spp. and Anubias. The result are beautiful, easy to look after tanks that provide lots of entertainment value and very little hassle.>
So, thanks very much. I will do ALL my own research in the future, and will only email another question if I'm truly desperate. You know you guys make It WAY too easy to get quick advice with minimal effort ;-).
<We try!>
FYI, I wasn't sure what to do last night and was concerned about oxygenation, so plugged in the pump. This morning the tetras are bright red again...????? and seem to be healthy and are eating. If aeration doesn't
make a lot of difference, maybe the filter (which the people I bought the tank from said was from Wal-Mart -- yikes) is not working as it should and the aeration made just enough difference?
<Aeration isn't necessarily the thing, as I mentioned last time, but circulation is. If the filter is inadequate for the job at hand, the water may be stagnant near the bottom of the tank. Adding an airstone circulates the water, but lots of aquarists misunderstand why this is. It has NOTHING much to do with the bubbles. Not much oxygen diffuses into the water from the bubbles. What actually happens is that as the bubbles of air rise, water is pulled up with the air bubbles, and so brought to the top of the tank. Water from the top of the tank is drawn down to replace that water that was pulled up. In other words, you get circulation. And it's that that helps. It sounds as if your filter isn't up to the job. If ammonia and nitrite are zero, the filter may be adequately powerful for water quality purposes, but not strong enough for circulation of the water.>
It's so weird -- they were completely colourless yesterday! I guess it's off to the pet store for a
REALLY GOOD filtration system, and guess what? I'm going to RESEARCH it first! :)
<Many options here. Plain vanilla air-powered systems such as sponges and box filters are cheap and effective, though they are somewhat unsightly. Undergravel filters work very well, but can't be used with plants that have roots (they're fine with floating plants or plants that are attached to rocks/wood). Electric filters come in two sorts. Internal canister filters tend to be easy to use and often relatively low cost, but are poor value in terms of turnover per hour. (Ideally, for a small fish community you want a filter that turns the water of your tank over 4 times per hour, i.e., if you have a 10 gallon tank, choose a filter with turnover 40 times per hour.) External filters are more complicated and often more expensive, but are better value in terms of turnover, hence tend to be preferred by expert fishkeepers. Regardless, the German brand Eheim is generally considered the very best filter manufacturer in terms of reliability and value in the long term. Remember, a filter needs to run 24/7, so reliability is an issue. Air-powered things are usually very reliable, though the diaphragm on the pump will need to be changed every couple of years. Electric filters are usually very reliable, but if you read around the various tropical fish forums you'll quickly learn that some brands have a less than stellar reputation than others. Hope this helps, Neale.>