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FAQs on Freshwater Angelfish Disease/Health 2

FW Angel injury, 2ndary inf. – 4/28/07
Hello Crew,
<Chris>
This is truly a great website, and I wouldn't have the five healthy tanks I now have without it.
<Glad to help>
I'm hoping you can help diagnose and treat a problem that one of my angelfish has. This is the male of a breeding pair. After the latest spawn hatched I saw the male and female fighting with the female aggressively attacking his eyes (three days ago). I removed the female and quarantined the male. The next day, he was laying on his side on the bottom. Using the net, we were able to get him back upright, and he now swims on his own; however, he's still not eating. I'm doing 20% water changes twice daily in
the 15 gallon tall tank he's currently housed in, but I haven't medicated with anything. I'm hoping the photos I've included are clear enough to see the fuzz that's on his eyes. He also has a wound beneath his right gill plate that I won't show up on the camera.

I've also included a photo I took when he was healthy.
<Thank you>
Thanks
Chris
<Does appear to be a secondary infection consequent to the fighting... I would elevate the water temperature to the low eighties F. and administer a Furan compound... likely Nitrofurazone... at 250 mg. per ten gallons, changed out three times, every three days... and continue trying/offering foods. Bob Fenner>

Re: FW Angel injury, 2ndary inf. 5/9/07
Hi again Bob,
<Chris>
Thanks for the help. The infection has cleared up and 100% gone. However, the fish has been left blind. The right eye fell out, and the left is white. I don't know enough about angel physiology to know exactly how to care for him, and he still hasn't eaten. He swims well and stays upright, and I know angels are prone to going on hunger strikes.
<This fish can survive, live a good life sans the eye>
So, the question is:
Is this a hunger strike, or is he unable to find the food because he's now blind? If the latter, is there a way for me to help him adjust, or will I need to euthanize?
<Keep offering small bits of food (discrete, like a good pellet type... my fave currently, Spectrum brand)... in about the same place, time... along with perhaps some live tubificid worms... in a suspended worm cup...>
Additionally, I forgot to give the history of this particular pair in my haste to find treatment for the infection.
The male from my original email is the second mate for the female that attacked him. As I said earlier, I removed her. She's currently in the community tank.
<Good>
Her first mate was a gold veil that after the fourth spawn showed symptoms similar to the second male with the exception of the infection being limited to one eye. My thoughts at that time were that I had in some way failed to properly care for the pair. When the symptoms revealed themselves the first time, I removed the male from the breeding tank to a qt tank where he lived for about a month before becoming so weak that I euthanized. Meanwhile I had returned the female to the community tank. She subsequently mated with the male that was the subject of my original question.
She has now mated with another male, although I've yet to transfer the pair to a breeding tank.

Additionally, since this female has always been an attentive parent, I've always left the eggs and fry in the breeding tank for the first two weeks.
My thought is/was that she understands the needs of the fry better than I.
My questions:
Is it normal behavior for one angel fish in a mated pair to aggressively attack the other after spawning?
<Mmm, not totally uncommon, but trouble>
I've not had this issue with any of my other pairs.
Since this female selects her mates well, I'd like to continue breeding her; but not if she'll continue killing the males. Will removing the eggs and hatching them from a different tank resolve her aggression issues which only manifest after spawning?
<Good idea. Especially if you're involved in this commercially, I would remove all said spawning media/eggs and raise independently...>
I've included pictures of the female and her third mate. The female is the one with the gold markings (second photo) around the eye and top. Since there's no point of reference for scale, she's about four inches. All three males have been six or more inches with two or three times her body mass.
Thanks again,
Chris
<Thank you for your careful reporting, sharing. Bob Fenner>

Stress Is Killing Angelfish 3/22/07
I have a black/silver marble angelfish who started to "lean" to the side a couple of days ago. Boy? Girl? I don't know but I've named the fish "Pretty." Pretty is about 3 to 4 inches. Pretty started to hang by the back filter -- appears like Pretty likes the water running on her body. She tries to right herself in a vertical position but is unsuccessful. Pretty is lethargic and not feeding well. The tank had a recent spike in ammonia and the nitrate level is also high with pH level around 6.4. I'm treating the tank for the ammonia spike with water changes, Amquel and bacteria. It's slowly working. What's wrong with Pretty? She shares a 29-gallon tank with a handful of mollies, 2 plecostomus (spelling?), a red tail shark and a ghost who is about 12" in length. They've been a "family" for quite some time with no problems. I don't see anything on her skin, scales, fins, etc. Pretty is about 3 years old. Please help!
< The spikes have left your angelfish with internal infections. In a hospital tank treat with a combination of Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace. Treat the main tank with Bio-Spira from Marineland to get the ammonia in check.-Chuck>
Debbie Harmon

Angel fish with cystic like growth on the upper lip 3/13/07
Hello -
<Hi there Kristina>
I have a year and a half old angel fish in a 20g. tank with one other angel fish, which I bought them both at the same time.
They have been living together with no problems for the past year. Six months ago the smaller angel fish developed a clear lump (looks swollen) on it's upper lip practically overnight. I thought this may have been cause by hitting the glass or the top of the tank at night.
<Would be my guess as well>
The lump has stayed the same size until this past weekend. Last night I noticed the lump has doubled in size and his mouth is almost completely closed shut. It looks like excess skin has grown in the opening of his mouth. He cannot even eat small broken up flakes or dried worms. I know he will starve to death if I do not do anything. Also, the second fish has no physical problems and is eating and acting normally. I still have not taken a picture but I can do it tonight and upload it if need be.
In the meantime what should I do?
thank you.
<Mmm... I would go the route of "semi-experimental" surgery here... Using a drop of Clove Oil (outside the tank)... I would place the angel in a shallow pan with some of the system water, add a couple of drops to the water and one to the cystic area, and gingerly cleave off the growth with a new single edge razor blade... then daub the area (with a "Q tip") with a drop of Merthiolate/Mercurochrome/Merbromin (whichever you can find/have)... and return it to the tank. Bob Fenner>
Kristina Marzec

Re: Angel fish with cystic like growth on the upper lip 3-13-07
Thank you for the information. Another thought: Could this be a tumor that has grown and is a result of inbreeding?
<Mmm, well... all starts (and ends) with our genes... perhaps there is some greater/lesser influence here>
He is a golden marble angel fish and supposedly they are frequently inbred?
<Mmm... not as "much" as the jet black varieties... but... yes>
If i did cut off the cyst or tumor:
1) Will it grow back?
<A possibility, yes>
2) Will it become infected when I put him back in the tank?
<Hopefully not... part of the reason for the application of the Mercury based antiseptic (along with stemming blood loss)>
Thanks again!
KRISTINA MARZEC
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

FW Angelfish With Black Spot - 3/7/07
Hello, I just found your site and am very impressed. Thanks so much for providing the service. I am writing because I am thinking of buying some freshwater angels at an LFS but they have what I think may be black spot disease (it is a commentary on the quality of available freshwater angel stock that I am even considering it...). The fish appear otherwise extremely healthy. They eat and are very responsive, but they have black spots that appear to stick out a bit from the skin. The spots are black/dark brown and maybe half again as big as ich spots would be. I have read so many different opinions on your FAQ and in other sources that I wanted to ask you specifically. There seems to be little agreement on what causes this disease - I have seen suggestions of Paravortex, Turbellaria, the same disease that causes pop-eye, bacterial and viral infections, etc. The treatments vary widely, as well (Black Spot Control, Jungle Parasite Guard, formalin, etc.). I just wanted to know what the current thinking on treating this disease is. The LFS owner is willing to try any treatment and my options for getting good angel stock are extremely limited. Thanks in advance for any advice you can provide. Mark
< If they are wild angelfish then they may have a parasite that cannot be treated. The typical South American Black Spot disease involves a very complex life cycle. The parasites attack the fish and are actually buried into the flesh and go dormant. In this stage they cannot be treated. In nature a bird would eat the fish and the parasites would awake from their dormancy and infect the intestines of the bird. While in the bird, the parasites would lay eggs that would be dispersed by the bird droppings. The eggs would hatch and infect snails or eventually fish to start the cycle all over again. While dormant, they really don't affect the fish. They just look really bad. If your fish are domestic then I would try Clout for parasites and Nitrofurazone for bacterial infections. The Nitrofurazone affects some fungus types too.-Chuck>

Angelfish With Hole-In-The-Head – 2/25/07
Hello! I have a freshwater angelfish with HLLE for approximately 8-9 weeks. I have read over your FAQs, and have begun supplementing her food with vita-chem.
I don't know if I missed this information, but do you use iodide as a supplement in freshwater aquariums? Thanks, Lea
< In FW situations the HITH disease is usually associated with poor diet, dirty water and stress. Start by doing a 50% water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. Treat with a combination of Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace. The vitamins can't hurt and try a new high quality food that your fish will eat.-Chuck>

Re: FW Angelfish With HITH II – 2/25/07
Thanks for your response. I probably should have been more specific with my original question. I have kept aquariums for years and I currently have 5.
My problem lies with my 90 gal fresh water tank. I do weekly partial water changes with a python gravel vac. I have two Emperor 400 filters with 4 cartridges, of which I change only 2 at a time whenever they become dirty. My temp stays about 78-80 and my pH stays around 7.2 - 7.4. I have well water with a very low pH and I use a couple of handfuls of crushed coral scattered in the gravel to buffer the pH up. No ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates. My water is crystal clear. Only artificial decorations ; no live plants. The tank has been set up for about 18 months.
My fish include 4 large angels and a much smaller one (the sick one). All were purchased at the same time from the same tank at the same size. The sick one appears to be the only female and she has paired with a male. She is the most aggressive, and she was laying eggs regularly until about the time she began to show lesions about two months ago. The other fish are 5 large rainbowfish, 4 clown loaches, 5 blue gouramis, 1 Otocinclus (the only one to survive the angels) 2 Chinese algae eaters, and 6 Corydoras catfish.
All seem healthy and all eat well, including the angelfish with HLLE. I feed a variety of commercial foods including tetra flakes, tetra crisps, shrimp pellets, algae wafers, Tubifex and bloodworms. I recently began supplementing with a beef liver, chicken liver, shrimp, spinach, carrot, green pea, and garlic mixture which they all seem to love. However it stinks and clouds my water (which does clear after about 1-2 hrs). I have also begun using vita-chem soaked food as an additional treatment for the HLLE.
When I was reading your FAQs I realized you mentioned iodide as a supplement for HLLE. I didn't notice if it was to be used as a supplement in freshwater tanks. I saw it in the marine section. I was wondering if this was an additional step I needed to take to treat my fish?
< No documentation of iodine working on HITH in FW.>
I have had all my fish for a long time. The last fish I added were the blue gouramis around last July. None of my fish seem stressed. None of them lurk in corners or hang out at the top of the tank nor around the filters. The paired angels do like to hang near the magnet algae cleaner where they usually lay their eggs. Just thought you might have some additional information for me if you knew I had already taken care of the obvious ones. I like pristine water and my fish actually seem to enjoy the whole water change process.
The angelfish with lesions has a large one (sort of gray no pink color, like her skin is just eroding away) around her head on one side, and several smaller places along her lateral line on the other side. No other fish has any marks. Would appreciate any advice you can offer for additional treatment. I have not tried any medicines yet. Neither have I isolated her, as of yet.
Thank you very much for your time, Sarah
< When I responded to your question I said that three things are at work to cause HITH. Your water quality sounds good, although angelfish prefer soft acidic water. The diet sounds good but I would skip the livers. The female has been stressed from spawning and was weak and susceptible to disease. I still would recommend the earlier treatment in a hospital tank.-Chuck>

Re: FW Angelfish With HITH. Nitrofuranace Vs Nitrofurazone – 2/25/07
In addition to my first reply, is Nitrofurazone the same as Nitrofuranace?
If not, where do I find Nitrofuranace?
< Same stuff.-Chuck>

FW Angelfish Not Eating 2/23/07
Dear Mr. Fenner and the Wetweb Crew: I currently have a 55 gallon freshwater tank, with 4 (4inch) angels (purchased November 2006), and 2 (quarter sized) angels, purchased approximately 3 weeks ago), of which one I am questioning about. Ammonia, and nitrate levels are at 0.The 4 original angels are feisty, eat voraciously and cruise the tank as angels do, along with one mutated ( it looks like its side fins have been chopped in half) small angel that was purchased in 2007. My concern is: the one small angel is not eating at all, it swims up like the others to eagerly eat but then looks and swims away. It will eat the odd flake but usually spits it out. When I first purchased the fish its size was just under a dime, it is now quarter-sized, so it is growing and getting nourishment somewhere. I don't see it browsing for food like the rest do, unless it does it at night. Its feces at times, of what little it has, is a white clear color, not like the others. Should I be concerned or just let things be as is? At times the fish will flutter one fin, as if it is agitated, but other than that, it does not hang at the top, or the bottom , as would indicate perhaps a bacterial infection or poor water quality. I do not have a hospital tank available to me, but am worried that if this fish is carrying some kind of infection it will pass it along to the other inhabitants. I feed them all a varied diet of Mysis flakes, blood worms(as a treat only), earthworm flakes, regular flakes and Spirulina flakes on a rotational basis. Your advice on what to do would be greatly appreciated, and I would like to commend you for a wonderful informative and user friendly site you provide. Thank-you. Sincerely, Debbie
< Thank you for your kind words. Whoever I have a cichlid like your angelfish that does not eat, I always treat it with Metronidazole for internal infections. It will not hurt the other fish. Follow the directions on the package.-Chuck>

Re: FW Angelfish Still Won't Eat After Treatment 3/4/07
Dear Chuck & WW Crew: Thank you for your prompt reply. Since then I did put the two smaller angels in a hospital tank (one mutated, no side fins) and the other (not eating ) angel. I have dosed them as instructed on the meds for 3 sessions being , one week, and still no improvement. Both either swim suspended at the top or bottom of the tank and no longer come to *greet* me when I offer food. I believe both of these came from not so favorable stock but still I don't want to lose them. The mutated one has fight, but cannot maneuver well, this is showing up to be a deterrent, and its survival precarious, the other angel that isn't eating, is still not. However, the only improvement I see is that it doesn't have the once in a while trailing slime. I have read on your site that it is beneficial to have them ingest the Metronidazole, but they wont eat so that is out of the question. I have tried to offer various types of food but still no response. I don't know what else I can do, and this has been going on now for aprox. 3 weeks. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. I read your website on a daily basis and find it the best on the web. Kudos to all the wet web crew. Sincerely, Debbie
< The key to a successful treatment is to treat as soon as the fish stop eating. The Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace are still the best treatments, but if you are getting no response then treating with Clout. Thanks for the kind words.-Chuck>

Wild FW Angelfish With Bacterial Problem 2/18/07
Hi. My wild-caught angelfish are getting spots (sores). One has met his maker already and another is close on his heels. Please help!! My tank:
55g, freshwater, no live plants, 5 angelfish (6 originally) 4-5 inches tall, 15 lemon tetras, 5 o-cats, & 3 Cory cats. I change 25% every week (occasionally I go 2 weeks but I've check the nitrates and it's always under 20). The history:
Several weeks ago an angel got a sore (white-ish) and I figured it to be a wound from the rocks (sometime my kids spook them and they'll freak out bouncing of whatever is near). I salted lightly and waited. A couple of weeks go by and it only get's bigger. Then I thought it was a secondary infection on the wound so I treated with Pimafix and Nitrofurazone (sp?). During the treatment week the first angel died. I finished the dose and everything seemed normal...The problem:
Now there is one more angel with sores, a cluster of black and white sores just under his dorsal fin on one side (see pics). Also the lemons have developed a few problems. The worst is one whose anal fin is gone and there is a "v" notch missing from his underside (see pic). Another lemon has red streaks on his side and yet another has a small red sore around his mouth.
I don't care so much about the lemons, but I'd rather not loose any more angels. Please help me diagnose and decide on a treatment. Thanks a bunch. Jeff
< Wild fish are always more difficult to keep alive than domestically raised fish. First of all you did not quarantine the fish. Wild fish can carry an whole bunch of parasites that can spread to other fish. Wild angelfish like warm soft acidic water. The lower pH of the Amazon basin actually inhibits some diseases. If your pH is above 7 then your angelfish are being subjected to a bunch of diseases that they would never encounter in the wild. Nitrofurazone worked the first time but the disease came back. This tells me that it is bacterial and that what ever caused the problem in the first place is still causing the problem. For now I would recommend a 50% water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. this should take care of the immediate problems. To care for these angels long term I would recommend that you soften the water and lower the pH to under 7. At pH 6 bacteria have a much harder time surviving. The easiest way to do this is with an R/O unit and a good buffer. I think you angels will be much better off. Domestic angels are much hardier to water quality and aquarium conditions than their wild counter parts.-Chuck>

Re: Wild FW Angelfish With Diseases II 2/18/07
So you don't recommend another round of medication?
< You need to medicate to get rid of the problem now. Nitrofurazone may still work if the bacteria have not become resistant. The disease may come back after the medication is gone because conditions have not changes. I would try the Nitrofuranace again to take care of the immediate problem while looking into softening the water and lowering the pH. Lts of articles/questions on this in the WWM archives.-Chuck>

911 emergency Please Help!!!! Lots of sick FW Angelfish!!
I have been breeding Angelfish for a couple years now, I have 37 aquariums,
<And long and strong arms from water changes... no doubt!>
and 2 of them that are full of breeder angels and they are SICK, this is the first time I have had sick fish in the hatchery. Here are the symptoms, The fish are not as excited to eat, they do not have full control of how they are swimming. And they are beginning to form a gray/white film on them, they hold there fins close to there body, and have lost a lot of color. I have only lost 2-3 so far and I really want to get control of this stuff before it kills my fish. There is about $350 worth of angels in these 2 tanks and they are sick PLEASE HELP!!! I have been treating them with Life Guard with little success,
<Mmm, one of the ingredients here...>
so I am doing a 50% water change right now to get them some fresh water, it is really weird though because only the angels get it, not the Plecos or Loaches or anything.
What should I do?
I really need some help as SOON as possible.
THANK YOU SOOO MUCH
Clint
<I do wish that you (and most all young people on the planet actually) had ready-access to a cheap microscope... to do a simple look/see at the slime, possibly some of the insides (of the dead specimens) here... I suspect either "our old friend/nemesis" Octomita/Hexamita (the causative organism of FW Angel "plague" some years back, and/or flukes... Skipping ahead... I would still look into Ed Noga's "Fish Disease; Diagnosis & Treatment", a QX5 or lower series microscope, some simple staining gear... (a couple hundred dollar investment in all... very worthwhile for what all you have invested here...) and treat (and soon) for both of these... With Metronidazole/Flagyl AND an Anthelminthic... See WWM, Noga... re dosages, methods... NOW. Bob Fenner>

Problem with angel fish 1/27/07
Hi,
<<Greetings, Slawomir. Tom with you this morning.>>
I've had my two angel fish for almost 3 years and the past summer my fish laid eggs, and all of the eggs turned white and they were eaten. It's been around 6 months, and my fish laid eggs again two nights ago.
<<Okay.>>
The first question I have is how can I tell which fish is male and which is female. My one fish is huge (4" head to end of tail by 6" top fin to bottom fin) then my other fish is much smaller (3" head to end of tail by 4" top fin to bottom fin). Is the larger fish the female, (she does protect the eggs, and the smaller fish tried to eat the eggs)
or are they possibly both female fish?
<<Determining the sex of freshwater Angelfish is close to impossible. Even experienced breeders of these fish will place, generally, six of these fish together and wait for a “couple” to form up. The males can be the larger of the two but this isn’t guaranteed nor is any other specific physical trait. About the best you might hope for is actually seeing these fish “spawn” to see which is which.>>
Next question: when the smaller fish tried to get close to the eggs, the larger fish attacked the smaller fish, now the smaller fish is missing scales, its fins are badly torn and damaged. Why was the fish attacking the smaller one?
<<Angelfish are a Cichlid species and become extremely territorial and protective after spawning. Unlike most other freshwater species of fish, Cichlids will raise and protect their young for up to six months. During this time, intruders – even of the same species – will be dealt with by the parent(s) aggressively…very aggressively. If I were a betting man, I’d say the larger of the two (a dominant female) laid the eggs and the smaller fish (another female) got too close and too curious about the eggs. Not very smart, it seems.>>
After I noticed that the fish was aggressive towards the smaller fish, I put the smaller fish into a different tank, so it could recuperate. Should I have done that?
<<A very wise move on your part, Slawomir.>>
And today I noticed that the smaller fish that's in the new tank had two strands like spider webs on its on fin and tail. Could this be ick? ( I had guppies and goldfish and they had ick also) but the fish does not have any bubbles on it?
<<Not Ich, Slawomir, but a fungal infection resulting from the injuries it received from the larger Angelfish. Very common for this “secondary” condition to occur but it must be treated along with the wounds that prompted the infection. The safest and, probably easiest, way to do this is by adding aquarium salt to the water. You might try checking with your local fish store for other medications that can be used to treat fungus outbreaks. Unfortunately, medications that we often recommend aren’t always familiar, or available, in other areas. Aquarium salt is probably the best way to go here.>>
Could this be caused by the fish tank, it is only 5 gallons. Is it too small?
<<All aquariums have fungus and bacteria residing in them. Healthy fish aren’t bothered by these. For fish that are sick, stressed or injured, it’s another story, though. A five-gallon tank is a little small for an Angelfish but shouldn’t pose a big problem since it’s being used for a hospital tank. Actually, smaller tanks are better for this purpose, anyway. It makes medicating the fish much easier and, ultimately, cheaper since less medication will be required. Not to worry.>>
Please help. I’ve had these fish for so long and I don't want them to die.
<<We won’t let that happen if at all possible. Make sure to keep the water conditions optimal in the small tank. Good water conditions are as important as any medication you can use to treat your fish. Best of luck to you. Tom>>

Re: problem with angel fish II 1/27/07
Hi again,
<<Hello again, back.>>
When I woke up this morning, I noticed that the larger angel fish that I have ate the eggs, and I know that is normal. Does that mean that I can put the smaller angel fish back into the bigger tank immediately or should I first wait until the fish is healthy, and does not have any fungus on it?
<<Wait on this, Slawomir. Right now, you should consider the smaller fish to be "under treatment". The less stress, the better. No need to invite unwanted problems.>>
And if I should wait for the fish to become better, then when could I put it back into the big tank? Right when it heals or wait a while to make sure that the injuries are completely gone?
<<Be patient with this. Your fish took a pretty good beating. It has a long life ahead of it yet and a little extra time now is going to seem pretty insignificant in the long run. What I will suggest is that the smaller environment might become stressful to the fish in which case you won't have much choice but to move it back to the larger tank. Hopefully, this won't occur until it's a lot more healthy, though. Best regards. Tom>>

Angelfish With Prolapsed Rectum 12/8/06
Hello--My kids noticed something weird on our angelfish. They said it looks like its "guts are coming out its butt" and they're right. First we thought it was
just fish poop, but it looks round (like 'guts') and it's sort of red and white. We have a 'community' tank, 30gal, and have assorted fish in there. We have
a weather loach, wide mouth pleco (its a small one--won't get big), a twig catfish, an albino rainbow shark and a big pleco. It's probably over
crowded, but they all do fine. We've had some of them for years. The large pleco we acquired recently. When we got it, I was careful not to let any of the water from the
pet store into the tank. I'm wondering could we have gotten something bad (disease) in the tank from him? I am not able to separate him because I
don't have another tank. I am unable to send a pic of the fish. I have tried but my camera isn't agreeing with me. Do you have any ideas about what it could be? Thanks--Ellen
< Two things could be going on. The first is the angelfish eats too much at once. Big meal in, big problem on the other end. Feed your fish once a day and only enough so that all of it is gone in a couple minutes. Keep the water clean and watch for fungus or bacterial infection on the extended intestines. If you fish is not eating then it could be an internal bacterial infection. This should be treated in a separate tank with Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace or Clout.-Chuck>

Sick Angelfish, caring/hope-knowledge-action 12/3/06
Hi,
 <Hello there>
 I just acquired an angelfish because my son was moving and didn't have the space. Thing is, the angelfish he'd had for nearly 3 years began to turn a bit on his side and stay at the bottom of the tank. There was 30 minutes or so before all the chemical to neutralize the chlorine was added.
<New water needs to be "set-out" treatment or no, for a few days to a week before use...>
I know absolutely nothing about fish and don't know what to do. Should I wait until the fish has died or flush it now to save it misery? Or is there something I can do to get it well?
 J.B.C
<... I take it you're not joking... Have you read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwangeldisfaqs.htm
and the linked files above.
This disclosure is amongst the saddest of my recent past... What, pray tell is your approach to life, living in general? Is all just a consumer/throw-away mentality?>
 Don't go through life with a catcher's mitt on both hands; you need to be able to throw some things back.
<What? Please give your pets to someone who cares enough to investigate what they're doing. Bob Fenner>

Angelfish Lying on Side?!? 11/27/06
Hello Bob. It's Glenda again. You may remember me from the email I sent about my Honey Gourami whose stomach was rotting away (July 24).
<Ah, yes>
My new problem is one of my black Angelfish: Why is it lying on its side on the floor of the tank?
<Not good>
It eats heartily like all the others but doesn't move around much otherwise. No other visible signs of sickness but it has been so for a few days now. It first started by staying at the top of the tank behind the flow of bubbles coming from the filter. Any idea what's wrong with it?
<Yes... darker varieties of FW angels have a decidedly higher incidence of "swim bladder" disease... symptomatic by this sort of lack of 3-dimensional control... Not cure-able>
I am still using my 25 gallon tank but the fish are a different collection:
2 Black and 1 White Angelfish, 1 Black Ghost, 2 Upside-down Catfish, 2 Silver Gouramis (one whose pectoral fin rotted off in Sept. over the course of about 6 months. Still living happily otherwise though so I just monitored it but didn't really worry about what caused it to happen.
<Could be negative interaction between the Knifefish or mochokid catfish... more likely at night...>
They are 3+ years old. Probably a small injury that never healed I guess?
<Yes... and/but most likely related to the other species noted>
Seems ok now.), 2 Plecos, 1 Yo-yo Loach, 3 Guppies, 2 Rainbow Sharks and 1 Albino Shark.
<Oh! Or these minnow-sharks...>
Once again, thanks for your help.
<The one angel will likely perish... perhaps better to euthanize. Bob Fenner>

Losing Fish and a Sick Angelfish 11/16/06
Hello, and thank you so much for providing this valuable resource.
< Thank you for your kind words.>
I've looked through the other queries and haven't seen anything exactly like this.
I bought a 4 inch tall angelfish (used) from a pet store along with a small blood parrot fish about a month ago for my 55 gallon tank that has been established now for nearly a year. The angelfish adapted immediately with a voracious appetite and I thought all was well. About a week ago my 6 inch long bala shark kicked the bucket for no apparent reason followed the next morning by (horror) my friend's foot long, 12 year old Pleco. Both had been acting somewhat lethargic and the Pleco had stopped cleaning algae off the glass, though he would still eat the seaweed paper I put in for him. I did an emergency 20% water change; nitrates were at around 20 ppm, pH of 7, and no detectable ammonia. So back to the angel, previously the third largest fish in my tank, now sadly the largest, has been swimming listlessly around the tank refusing to eat. (The remaining three lemon tetras, two longfin rosy barbs and parrotfish appear totally unaffected). I have moved the angel into a smaller 3 gallon Eclipse hospital tank (cringe I know it's pathetic but it is established) and am prepared to treat him for what my internet research tells me may be an internal parasite. But what should I use? He's not bloated in anyway, just refuses anything I offer from flakes, to frozen blood worms and brine shrimp. He also occasionally appears a bit unbalanced, tilting to one side. I'm really crazy about this beautiful gold angel and am already distraught at having lost my favorite fish from my now emptyish tank. What should I do?
< Do a 50% water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. Treat the angelfish with Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace or Clout in the hospital tank. Feed only once a day and only enough so that all the food is gone in two minutes.-Chuck> <<A bit more explanation offered... the suggested treatment protocol is intended to address the most likely pathogens... and the water change to further dilute metabolites that are likely mal-influencing your livestock. RMF>>

Lumpy Angelfish - 08/26/06
Hi I wonder if you can help me to determine what is wrong with my angelfish.
I have recently noticed that one of my two angle fish appears to have large lumps on its side, they have so far been there for approx 2 weeks?? I have had the fish for over a year and have not had any previous problems with them. The 'lumpy' fish is still eating, and is still the 1st fish in the tank to go for the food first. I have done a large water change, added aquarium salt and a bacterial infection treatment but haven't notice a difference.
Is there anything else I can try or purchase? Emma (United Kingdom)
< Could be parasites like worms. Treat with Fluke-Tabs or Clout and watch for secondary bacterial infections.-Chuck>

Treating A Lumpy FW Angelfish
Chuck, As promised a few pictures of the lumpy fish. please let me know if this
pictures indicate another diagnoses, especially if it is contagious as I do
not want any other fish in the tank to get the same. Many thanks in advance for all your help
regards Emma (UK)
< Wow , sure is lumpy! I would still isolate the fish and treat with Clout or Fluke-Tabs. This would get ride of many parasites. Then go for the Metronidazole with Nitrofurazone for bacterial and protozoal problems. If this doesn't work then you may have to assume it is a viral infection for which there is no cure.-Chuck>

Re: Lumpy Angelfish, meds. avail. 9/26/06
Chuck, Thanks for the advice, Any idea where I can purchase Clout or Fluke-tabs
(The UK doesn't seem to sell them!)
< Do a google search on these medications to find the active ingredient. Then check for the ingredient with the medications available in the UK.-Chuck>

Angelfish with swollen belly, no useful data 8/24/06
My angelfish has a swollen belly. He won't eat and is kind of floating on his side and upside down.
<Very bad>
 He seems to be using a lot of energy trying to swim or "keep afloat". I haven't noticed him "using the bathroom" either. He also likes to "rest" on some of the plants. Do you know what could be causing this and how I can help him?
<A number of possibilities... gut blockage (but from what cause in turn?), internal parasites (would need to use a vermifuge and anti-protozoal), fatty degeneration from a long history of mis-maintenance and/or poor nutrition...>
 I have put Epsom salt in the tank and not fed him for 2 days and it didn't seem to help.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks,
Terra
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwangeldisfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Help something is wrong with my Angel 8/16/06
Hello my name is Keith and I have a pair of Black long veil Angelfish (breeding pair) and the female is forming a growth on her vertical fin, the
fin that just hangs there, am not sure what it is called exactly.
<Pelvic>
 But the growth is right were the fin joins the body. It almost looks like the meat of the fish. It is small but I think it has gotten bigger in the last day or two.
Does this sound like a bacterial infection to you? And if so what treatment do you recommend?
<Mmm, likely an "owee"... Likely the result of a physical trauma. I would do nothing here>
I have a 135g planted tank 2yrs old
PH 6.6-6.7
100% RO water
<Mmm, may need some blending of tap/source water... what do your plants do for minerals... Natural gravel?>
82 deg
weekly water changes of 50%
Thanks for any help
<Bob Fenner>

PLEASE HELP ME: freshwater angelfish trouble. 8/8/06
Hello; I need help. :\
<<Hi, Callie. Tom here.>>
I have a 36 gallon tank with 4 danios, a Plecostomus, an Oto, 4 clown loaches and 1 angelfish. No one else SEEMS to be at all affected, but my freshwater angelfish is terribly sick and I am not finding the right information.
<<You've got six fish in with the Angelfish that might find him an inviting target. Let's go on...>>
It has three round white spots/sores that have grown with time (in number and size - about a month ago now it was just one). They look like the scales are being eaten away; there is no blood or growth on them from what I can tell. There is also a hole developing now in what I can best describe as the bottom right side of it's jaw. I thought it was maybe hole-in-the-head for a while, but that doesn't seem the best fit.
<<Not on the surface, it doesn't, but we're looking below the surface on this one (pun - if there's one there - intended).>>
I researched worms because about two weeks ago there were small black worm-looking creatures (I couldn't diagnose which type of worms they were exactly through my research) on the cover of the tank when I lifted it to feed one morning. I wiped them off and have seen only one and now none of them since, but I don't know what they were about either. My angelfish is slow moving and I am pretty sure is not eating at all anymore.
<<One of the ironies with Angelfish is that their reputation for being occasionally aggressive around tank mates tends to overshadow the fact that they themselves can/will fall victim to certain types of fish. Their tall, flat bodies along with their slow movements make these fish prime targets for the Clown Loaches and Plecostomus. Even the diminutive Otocinclus is known to attach itself to fish such as Angelfish to feed on the mucus coating on the fishes' bodies. Once traumatized, then stressed, I'm not surprised your Angelfish isn't feeding, or even trying to. Now, while Cichlids don't have the entire monopoly on HITH disease, they own a big chunk of it. Commonly believed to be associated with high nitrates/bacteria in the water, more often than not, it's a nutritional issue. A Cichlid that isn't eating, i.e. your Angelfish, has "nutritional issues".>>
It doesn't fight for food or even seem to see or sense it with any enthusiasm. I think it would certainly eat again if I could fix whatever made/is making it sick.
<<You can fix this but it will mean removing him/her to other quarters...permanently. Your Angelfish would be perfectly fine with the Danios alone but the other fish you have with it, regardless of whether it's an individual or a "multiple endeavor", will end up killing the fish. Not in an outright fashion, perhaps, but the result will be the same.>>
A couple days ago I removed a bunch of gravel from the tank bottom because it came to my attention that we had too much and it was possibly harboring a lot more waste than is healthy for our tank. I was waiting to see if there was change in my angelfish's condition, but today I noticed something coming out of it's anus. This may sound ridiculous and now I am just paranoid, but I can't determine if I have just never seen it poop before or if it is a parasite finally becoming visible. I thought maybe it was Camallanus, but from all of the questions on your website, they are threadlike and red. This excretion is white, short, and staying attached so far.
<<What you see, focally speaking, is due to either infection or, simply, because the fish hasn't eaten for some time. Due to the trauma to the body of the fish as well as it's loss of appetite, it would be premature to suspect an internal parasitic or bacterial infection at this point in time. Pristine water conditions, a good diet, a little aquarium salt and rest are what this animal needs and, I might add, quickly.>>
I am new at the fish thing, so I am certain there are a million things that I am doing wrong, but I do care very much about having healthy, happy fish.
<<Excellent. Now, let's make your Angelfish healthy and happy. :)>>
I am feeling very helpless now.
<<Try not to. If you don't have one available now, try to set up a quarantine tank. Shouldn't have to be more than about 10 gallons in size. A hang-on filter, aquarium salt and a heater is about all you'll need for now. If at all possible, procure a bottle of BIO-Spira (Marineland). This will - virtually - cycle your QT immediately. Use water from the large tank to (just about) fill the small one. Top off with dechlorinated tap water and about one tablespoon of aquarium salt and move the Angelfish over. (We're not concerned with aesthetics.)>>
If you could be of assistance in any way I would be most grateful.
<<Please, get back with any questions that you might have. Easier to deal with "specifics", anyway.>>
Thank you for your time,
Callie Nelson
<<You're welcome, Callie. Tom>>

Re: PLEASE HELP ME: freshwater angelfish trouble - 8/10/2006
<<Hi, Callie and Mike.>>
I just want to thank you so much for your help.
<<You're more than welcome.>>
My fiancé and I decided to take the angelfish back to the store so that he could find a more suitable home. The store employees said that they definitely looked like bite marks and that he should be fine.
<<Very glad to hear this, of course.>>
And to think I felt so helpless and terrible.
<<You both did well and should be pleased with your decision.>>
I have one more request if it is not a burden.
<<Oh, stop. It's what we're here for...>>
I was wondering if you know of a web link or some kind of resource for knowing best what to put together as tank mates.
<<Callie, aside from our own site - with experienced input ;) - you can do a search on Google that will turn up a number of sites that provide "recommended" tank mates for the fish you have. I will share with you that your Clown Loaches are going to be "problematic". As they mature, they don't remain quite as "cute" as they do when they're juveniles.>>
We would like to add a few more fish now, because we lost our Oto and our angel yesterday (the Oto was dead yesterday morning with no signs of anything other than the Plecostomus was sucking on him; my assumption is that the angelfish victimized him because he was small like the danios but not as fast moving, and the angelfish was no doubt hungry and a little hostile).
<<Otos, like electronics, tend to suffer from "infant mortality". I won't bore you with the details but, they make it or, they don't. Your Angelfish had little, probably nothing, to do with your Oto dying. Your Pleco, on the other hand, was simply being "opportunistic". Large as they become, they don't range far. Your Oto just "presented" itself to your Plecostomus, in a manner of speaking.>>
We want to add another clown loach and maybe a team of angelfish. Would they be able to hold their own if there was more than one?
<<No. As Cichlids, Angelfish inherently hold a different temperament than other fish do. Can be assertive. Can be aggressive. Can be territorial. My two are getting along famously in a community tank and I don't trust either one farther than I could throw my house. They don't form "teams", as such. It would be a mistake to add Angelfish to this tank again.>>
The ones at the store are very small also, so we'd be acclimating them to the tank when they're small.
<<Callie, your Loaches are going to become more "predatory" as they mature. They'll "outgrow" the tank in the sense that the cute, colorful, little fish that they are, when small, will not be the same fish when they "grow up". First, the coloration of the fish will change. (They'll become rather bland in appearance in adulthood.) Next, they will likely take from "scrounging" around to going after their tank mates, if possible. Not a "given" but, certainly, probable.>>
If you could direct me to a good source or have some input, that would be wonderful.
<<Again, Callie, recheck our site or, do a Google search. We don't affiliate ourselves with, or promote, any particular sponsors or sites. The opinions we share with you are our own based on our training/experience.>>
Thank you again, so much,
Callie & Mike
<<Hope I've helped a little. My best to both of you. Tom>>

Angelfish dying 7/18/06
Hi Crew,
<<Hi, Aaron. Tom>>
Recently I have set up a tropical tank. The tank is 23L big and has already be filtered for over 1 week. Just yesterday I have placed 4 angelfishes inside, they are all very small.
<<Angelfish won't stay "small", Aaron. Perhaps you already had future plans to upgrade. These fish would need approximately ten times the size aquarium that you placed them in. Size alone isn't the reason for this, though. Angelfish are very sensitive to their water conditions. Only a sufficiently large tank can afford them the "stability" that they require to survive and thrive. Also, these fish need a fully cycled aquarium. One week is not nearly long enough to completely cycle even a 23L aquarium.>>
I do not have a clue why they died the next day like in the afternoon, but I'll tell you what happened.
<<Okay.>>
I tested everything like pH and everything was all good.
<<"Good" is too subjective a term when we're trying to help someone, Aaron. If you would, in the future, please provide us with specific readings particularly on ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH levels. These are the "Big Four", so to speak. Anything else you can share will undoubtedly help us even more.>>
The 1 problem I think was my filter. My filter is really, really loud. Something is wrong with it, but it works perfectly fine.
<<Not being sarcastic but, it doesn't sound like it, Aaron.>>
It sounds like this loud vibration sound within the motor or something. But I placed them into the tank in the afternoon. At night, when I was going to sleep, I turned off the filter because it was too noisy.
<>
The next day when I woke up they were all very lively and swimming happily. So I turned on the filter and went to school. When I got back from school, which is around 7 hours later, 2 of them were already nearly dead, getting sucked by the filter. After around 3 more hours the other 2 just started to die as well, falling onto their sides. So, what do you guys think they died from? Was it because of the really loud filter machine? Btw, the filter machine was a Jebo brand.
<<Quite a few possibilities here, Aaron...unfortunately. First, the combination of an uncycled tank coupled with the filter being shut down overnight may have led to a dramatic ammonia "spike". (Frankly, the filter being turned off wouldn't have prevented a spike in ammonia but it may have reduced the effect somewhat.) Second, your fish may have been sick when you purchased them though I might have thought this would take a little longer to manifest itself. Third, the vibration in your filter motor may have caused it to overheat excessively, raising the water temperature beyond what your fish could tolerate. In conjunction with this, the constant vibration may have proved too much for them to tolerate, as well. In short, they may have been stressed to death. (Of the three I've noted, I believe the third is the most likely.) I'm also going to surmise that your filter is one of Jebo's "internal" types based on the size of your tank so the fourth possibility I might envision would be an electrical wiring problem at the motor causing both the "vibration" and an excessive amperage draw. This "may" have led to an electric current being introduced into your tank. Could be imperceptible to you and me but deadly to your fish. My recommendations? Throw the filter into the trash or get your money back. Don't purchase any more fish until you research them thoroughly to see what type of environment they - at adult size! - require. Research cycling an aquarium and don't add any fish to one that hasn't been completely cycled. (We all make mistakes. The trick is to avoid duplicating them.) ;)>>
Thanks guys
<<You're welcome, Aaron. Tom>>

Angel Fish... the Amazing Kreskin, not! - 06/07/06
My 2 year old large white angel fish died after a few days of continuous gasping. He stayed near the top always and would not eat. Slight spots of cloudiness on his clear fins. No other fish are sick. Water quality is very good and everything I can test for comes out normal.
Any ideas so I can keep it from happening again?
Donna McBride Cardinal
<Uhh... where's the boeuf? No info. re your system, history of its maintenance, water quality measures (not subjective evaluations), a list of other livestock... Not even a mention of whether this is a marine or freshwater situation... Not in the guessing game biz. Bob Fenner>

Angelfish Taking A Dive - 05/29/06
I have 2 4" angelfish. I don't know the sexes and have had them for 5 months. They live in a 55 gal tank with just a few other fish. Lately, one of them has been laying on the bottom, it gets up, swims around and lands like an anchor nose first. Like it is heavy. I took a water sample to my favorite pet store and they said the PH was very low. I did a 15 gallon water change and added another filtration system (wheel) and it seems a bit more active but not much. It has been like this for a week or so. There are no visible problems on the outside of the fish. BUT, this morning it noticed three groups of what appears to be eggs on the tank wall now. I have other fish so it may be them. I am not sure this is associated with he angels. Any help you can give would be appreciated.
< You fish has an internal infection that has affected the swim bladder. Do a 50% water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filters. You can try to treat it in a hospital tank with Metronidazole, Nitrofuranace or Clout. These medications may affect the biological filtration if used in the main community tank. Treatment in a hospital tank is recommended.-Chuck>

Angelfish With Persistent Tail Rot 5/26/06
My angel's tail is small but he does have a tail. It has been breaking and disappearing and then it will stop, then it will go again. His fin rot is
somewhat on and off. If I use the medication Nitrofuranace (was recommended here) will it stop the fin rot and then re-grow his tail, or does the fin rot have to be stopped, and then I can use Nitrofuranace to re-grow his tail? Thank you
<Do a 50% water change, clean the filter and vacuum the gravel. If the infection has gone past the fin portion and into the muscle of the tail then the fin will not regrow. If the infection is still in the tail fin then it can be trimmed back to healthy fin with fingernail clippers. Then treat the tank with the Nitrofurazone as per the directions on the package. The tail should regrow but maybe not as long as an undiseased tail.-Chuck>

Marbled Angelfish fin 5/25/06
<<Tom with you, Victor.>>
First, I would like to thank you for your site, it has been very helpful.
<<Glad to know we've been of help to you.>>
I've been part of the hobby for 5 years, have a large community tank that has been successful for several years. I had purchased 2 marbled angels about 4 years ago. They are beautiful specimens which are thriving with 3 clown loaches, 3 albino Corys , 1 silver dollar, 9 neon tetras, 2 female Bettas and one male Betta.
<<Quite an assorted collection, Victor.>>
I haven't bought a fish for 3 years and all has been well. I have live plants and plastic PVC pipes for refuge. I feed them flakes, bloodworms (frozen and freeze dried), brine shrimp, and occasionally cichlid delight.
<<Sounds good. Not for me but for the fish. :)>>
My question is one of my angels, since I bought it, has a bent fin. Not quite sure what you call it, but is one of his two front ones, the left one to be precise. It is bent back at almost a 90 degree angle.
<<Victor, I own three Gold Marbled Angels myself and one has exactly the same condition as your fish...same fin, coincidentally. It's the ventral fin, by the way.>>
Besides that he has been happy for all the years I've had him, but I would like to know if there is a way to straighten up its fin, or should I continue to let it be. All my fish are perfect specimens, and I would like to know if its fin can be fixed, or is this normal in most cases.
<<Well, it's not normal but there's nothing that you (we) can do about it. It's either a genetic anomaly or, the ventral may have been broken when your Angelfish was a "puppy".>>
The angels are about s inches long and despite their size, they don't pick on my Neons. Any advice would be highly appreciated, for I believe it if is not broke, don't fix it, but if there is a painless way to make it completely perfect, I would be more than happy to help.
<<Sorry, Vic, but we're going to have to love our guys just the way they are.>>
Thank you,
Vic
<<Any time, Vic. Tom>>

Tail-less Angelfish 5/11/06
Can you please direct me to a medicine to cure fin rot for angels on your site, because my angel has not been getting worse but he still does not have a tail and he has had a tiny stub for about 4 months now. Any suggestions? Thanks
< If the infection has already made it up to the caudal peduncle then it will not grow back. Next time try Nitrofuranace.-Chuck>

Dark discoloration patches on angelfish 4/25/06
Hi there
We have an old angelfish (probably about 5 or 6 years)
<Mmm, more like "middle aged"... am in this range m'self... and overly sensitive re>
who has recently gone off its food and has dark colour patches appearing on its body.
These patches have been coming and going over recent weeks and I cannot find any information on this anywhere.
Help!
Regards
Lisa Knott
Christchurch
New Zealand
<... need more info. Water quality, set-up, history, other tankmates... When, where in doubt, water changes... Bob Fenner>

Re: dark discoloration patches on angelfish 4/26/06
Hi sorry about that.
120 litre tank
PH is fine, do 20% water change and gravel clean once a week
Tank mates (non of which bother him/her) are: Plec, ruby shark, neons, guppies, platies, kribensis, bristlenoses cat fish, algae eater, other catfish
Cheers
Lisa
<... likely water quality, crowding, and/or some of these fishes (the "shark", Kribs) bothering it. See WWM re: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwangelfishes.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Freshwater Angelfish Finrot 4/9/06
I have 2 angels along with one huge goldfish which should be moving away in a few days (my moms co-worker wants him),
<Good... mis-mixed here>
1 gourami, 4 platys and 2 Corys in a 37 gallon tank. One angelfish's' tail, about 2 weeks after I got him from Petsmart, started to disintegrate.
<Likely stress and poor environment in combo. working here>
I asked around and someone told me it was finrot.
<A description, like your having a "fever" or "cold" that tells little to nothing re root cause/s>
At that point I had him in a quarantine tank because I didn't know what it was. That was about 2 months ago. I did a water change and everything was fine
except for nitrate which is still extremely high! His tail did stop disintegrating and it had gotten so bad that you could see part of his back, very close to
his tail because everything was gone! It started to grow back and it still is really really slowly! Seriously, I have been waiting for it to get better for
2 months and it has only grown back about maybe 1/2 a centimeter! I know nothing is disturbing him that I can see because my other angelfish was getting it
too on his tail, but it stopped soo much faster, But even with him the recovery has been slow, He still has much of a tail and it seems nothing is wrong
with him but if you look real close you can see that at the top and the bottom of his tail, he has 2 strings showing how long his tail was. Nothing seems to be
happening to either of their tails and I hope they will get better because the one definately looks terrible without his tail! Is there anything I can do?
Marc
<Read... on WWM re FW Angel Disease, Systems... Bob Fenner>

Dying FW Angelfish 3/15/06
Hi, I've been reading everything I could find on your site for the past few weeks and have gained access to an incredible amount of information that I'd not know if not for you. Thank you. South American Cichlids fascinate me,
and I've set up a species specific tank for angelfish. My fish are slowly dying, and I can't find any information on the web or in the books I've read to help me find the reason. I've been unable to perform some of the water
tests I'd like to perform due to my local fish store constantly being out of master test kits, so I've ordered one and am awaiting its arrival. Here are the tank conditions.
Tank Description:
Volume: 110 gallon with 300 pounds gravel
< Wow, That's a lot of gravel.>
Temperature: 79 degrees F
< Kick it up to 80 to 82 F>
Ph: 7.6 (higher than I'd like, but unchanging)
< Can maintain many S.A. fish at this pH.>
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: Unknown
< Important to find out. Greater than 20 ppm can lead to stress and disease.>
Spec Gravity: Unknown
Hardness: Unknown, but local water is historically quite hard
Filtration: Two Aquaclear BioMax filters rated for 110 gal as well as under gravel filtration (I forget the brand name)
Maintenance: 20% water change weekly with new water treated with StressCoat, daily visual inspections, changing of filters as per manufacturer suggestions with the two filters being on alternating schedules.
Current Population:
4 Med Angels (half dollar sized)
1 Angel Fry
1 Large Pleco (16-18 inches)
Diet:
I feed a high quality flake in the mornings. I feed a rotation of freeze dried krill, freeze dried blood worms, frozen brine shrimp, and frozen glass worms in the evenings. I also suspect my wife of feeding them additional
flake while I'm gone during the day. For the Pleco, two or three algae pellets every other day.
History:
I set this tank up approximately two months ago. In my excitement, I added fish too soon having only allowed the tank to cycle for about 10 days. I at first added 2 large angels and 10 medium angels. After about one week I
started losing 1-2 fish daily due to the ammonia spike until I'd lost five of the original ten medium angels. I then went to a reputable LFS and purchased one large black angel and the large Pleco. Over the next three
days I lost the black angel and four more of the medium angels due to an onslaught of ich. I returned to fish store with the black angel and learned from two employees who weren't there at the time of purchase, that the black
angel shouldn't have been sold due to suspected parasite or bacterial infection. After two weeks my daughter purchased two med angels for my birthday. During this time I performed 15% daily water changes with water stored in buckets for 24 hrs prior to use before due to the high nitrites. After my tank finished cycling, a local breeder who is a friend of mine gave me the fry to add to the tank as a test subject for the tank. Two days later I performed my weekly water change and within 12 hours all fish except for the fry and Pleco were covered in ick and dying. All but the fry and the Pleco died while I was treating the ick. That same day I did a water change, the breeder who is a friend, performed a water change and lost 300 fish. This event was two weeks ago.
Last Thursday, I purchased five more med angels. Initially, all were active and voracious eaters. Over the past two days, things have changed. This morning I watched one of the angels die, leaving the above current
population. The medium angels are lethargic and spend their time huddled together in the back, bottom left corner of the tank. They only swim when feeding. All have clamped fins and faded coloration. One of the angels is
not eating nearly as much as it was. The fry is active and constantly feeding on whatever it can find to eat. Its anal fin and tail fin appear to have been nipped at causing it some problems with swimming, but it seems to be adapting. The Pleco seems normal, inactive by day and very active at night. Although, I've observed its feces to be long and stringy like a
long, blonde hair (normal?).
< Normal, considering the diet.>
Although I've not observed any deformities, growths, or other abnormalities, my fish are obviously stressed and dying. What am I doing wrong or not doing right? I know that angels typically like softer, more acidic water than I've got. However, I've seen tanks full of happy, healthy angels using this same water. I HATE watching my fish die when I feel that I should be
doing something to stop what I think should be preventable. I apologize for the length, and I truly appreciate your time and help.
Thanks, Chris
<You really, really need a quarantine tank (QT). Treating a tank this large every time you get a new fish is very expensive and very stressful on all the fish. Search the WWM site for FAQ's on these. You may still have ich in your tank. Do a 50% water change, clean the filters and vacuum the gravel. UG filters accumulate the muck until you take it out by vacuuming the gravel. Now that the tank is clean you can start treatment. You could have ich (white spots), or a bacterial infection (Clamped fins/Cloudy eyes), even both. With such a large tank and such few fish I would recommend getting a QT and using it as a hospital tank for now. Place in angels in a QT tank of about 20 gallons. Heat the water to 82 to 84 F with lots of aeration. Treat with Rid-Ich by Kordon. If you have a bacterial problem then I would treat with erythromycin. Do not feed while medicating. Keep them all in the QT until they are completely cured and eating.-Chuck>

Angel fish with a strange lesion - 01/12/2006
Hi,
<Hello>
I have an ill angelfish and I don't know what to do. I asked everyone and every website I know but I got no answer. It has a lesion on its one side.

This lesion was small at first (approx. 0.1 inch in diameter) but it grow bigger in about 1 month (to approx. 0.2 inches). I'm sending you its photo. I bought it when
it was a baby. When it was growing bigger some black spots appeared on its sides but I didn't know it could be a disease and I did nothing.

Then they have disappeared spontaneously. I've read the section about black spots on
your website and learned that it was not an urgent problem and can be ignored if the fish is otherwise healthy but can black spots be related to that lesion?
<Maybe... perhaps they're rupture led to the original break in the skin here...>
My angel's appetite is well and it's very active. It looks so healthy.. apart from that lesion... Please tell me if you know what disease is this and if it's curable.
Thank you in advance
Mia
<Is curable... and I would try to do so... I suspect a bacterial infection here is eating at this sore... I would try daubing it (by catching the angel, gently holding the side up, out of the water) with a mercuric (Merbromin, Mercurochrome...) like those used as topicals for humans... with the use of a "Q-Tip"... directly over this area/region... allow to dry for a couple of seconds... If this doesn't lead to obvious re-growth over the area, let's chat over a likely antibiotic regimen to try next. Bob Fenner>

Re: angel fish with a strange lesion - 01/12/2006
Thank you very much for your answer. Now all I need to know is the dosing
regimen. Should I apply it once a day or twice? For how long before I expect
a response?
<Once should do it here for the daubing... Furan compounds are covered on WWM. Bob Fenner>
Again, thank you so much.
Mia

Re: angel fish with a strange lesion 1/13/06
Hi again,
<Hello again>
Sorry to disturb you so frequently but I have to ask something. I applied mercurochrome with a Q-tip as you say and now, after approximately 2 hours,
a transparent flake is waving like a flag from the top corner of the lesion Is this normal? I'm trying to take a picture of it.
<Is normal, as in to be expected>
I took a picture of it. I hope it helps (the pinkish color is coming from the mercurochrome). You can see the flake in the top corner of the lesion
area. It was bigger at first and soon after I took the picture completely gone.
Regards
Mia
<No worries. Bob Fenner>

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