Possible sick angels     10/18/13 Hi <Hello,> I had a 20 gallon tank that I had a electric yellow Lab and a Pleco in and I decided to upgrade to a 29 gallon. I moved all the water from my old tank along with all the gravel and decor as well as my filter. I have a Penguin Bio wheel 150. I did not clean or change anything, then I added a bit of extra gravel along with about 11 gallons of water. I let the tank sit for 2 days,  then traded my yellow lab in and got 4 nickel sized angel fish. <Mistake.> Its been 6 days since I got them, they seem to be happy except for one that occasional picks on the others, but they are eating well. On the 6th day 2 of my angels, the ones that are the same color as each other appeared to have some red marks just at the base of their dorsal and a little bit on the dorsal. <The Yellow Labidochromis are attacking the Angelfish. DO NOT keep them in the same aquarium.> One is worse than the other. I took water to the pet store I got them from and they tested my water and the only thing they could find was my nitrates were a little bit elevated but not hugely so. They advised me to do a 10 gallon water change, in hopes it would fix whatever is ailing them. I did the water change, but I am still concerned at what this might be and whether I should do any kind of treatment. I am also worried if I do treat the whole tank that it will kill all my biology, I also still have a Pleco in there as well. <Assuming a generic "Pleco" of the sort sold in most aquarium stores, this species will get huge (30-45 cm/12-18 inches) and is totally inappropriate to this sized aquarium. Barely suitable for 55 gallons; better in 75+ gallons. The Bristlenose Plec, Ancistrus sp., works much better. It looks different to the Common Plec in many ways, so telling them apart is easy. Needless to say, a big, filthy Plec makes it extremely difficult to maintain good water quality, esp. with regard to nitrate.> He recommended Melafix so that won't happen, but I know you are not fond of that treatment. <Quite so.> Would you happen to know what this might be on my angels and what can I use, if I need to use something, that is gentle? Water PH is at about 7.4 and I have the temp at around 80. I have attached some pics, sorry they aren't very good, it was hard to get some that actually caught the redness by the dorsal. All fish are still eager to eat at this point Thanks Heidi <Nice and easy, this one! Keep the Angels away from the Labidochromis; medicate as per Finrot (e.g., SeaChem Kanaplex or the popular combination of Maracyn 1 and Maracyn 2). Don't forget to remove carbon (if used) from the filter while medicating. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Possible sick angels     10/18/13 Hi Thanks for your reply. I think you may have been confused, I said I traded in my Yellow Lab THEN got 4 angelfish. I do not have anymore labs in my tank. Just the 4 angels and the Pleco. So would the treatment you prescribed still apply? <For sure. This looks a lot like Finrot; is very common in Angelfish, usually following physical damage, though sometimes environmental or social stress. Do bear in mind Angels are best kept single, in mated pairs, or groups of 6+ specimens... in smaller groups bullying is common once sexual maturity occurs. Do watch for bullying, biting, chasing, etc.> As far as the Pleco goes I bought him when he was 2 inches and he is now 3 and I have had him for about 3 years. He is a common Pleco. <Not if he's grown 1 inch per year he's not! Do use Google or similar to find pictures of the Common Plec, Pterygoplichthys sp., then compare with the Bristlenose (Ancistrus sp.) and perhaps one of the "Clown" Plec species such as Peckoltia.> I have had in the past a high fin Pleco and he too grew slow. <How big was the aquarium you kept him in? Seriously, these catfish normally grow very big, very fast -- the usual is 8-12 inches within the first year.> So no problems there Pleco wise. I only feed him one algae wafer every 4 days or so. <Ah, well, lack of food will have an effect to be sure!> The rest he gets from whatever was in the tank. <Contrary to what retailers may state, Plecs don't eat fish faeces and certainly shouldn't be expected to eat "leftovers". They should receive a varied diet in quantity proportional to their size. Certainly green foods (cucumber, courgette, lettuce, etc.) can be offered more or less every day. An adult Plec would also need 2-3 algae wafers every couple days. Occasional meatier treats might be offered less frequently. Do you know the PlanetCatfish website? Do avail yourself of its excellent content re: catfish care, diet, etc.> Can you explain what was a "mistake", was it the way I upgraded my tank or getting angels? <In this case the mistake may well have been my mis-reading of your missive; the "mistake" would be keeping Angels with Yellow Labs, a very bad idea.> Thanks <Welcome, Neale.>

Re: Persistent problem with a bloated freshwater angel fish; Epsom conc., w/ plt.s      10/6/13
<I see Neale is busy; I will resp. here and place your msg. in his in-folder as well>
Hi there, a while back you guys helped save one of our angelfish from dropsy by recommending dosing with Epsom salt. At the time we used 2 tsp per 4 gallon, so at the high end of the range. Since then we've gradually reduced the salt dose, and finally moved our fish (5 angels, 3 well-behaved
yoyo loaches, one pictus catfish) to a planted tank that hasn't ever been dosed with Epsom salt. All fish in this tank look happy and all levels look
OK (note: have not tested GH and KH). Unfortunately it looks like we need continued dosing Epsom salt, because the same angel has started swelling again.
<Mmm, perhaps soaking this one fish, adding antibiotics of use to its food... even injection w/ soluble... Likely bacterial involvement here>
 He/she still looks lively and eats well, but we're approaching the original shape that got us worried in the first place. My question, how much Epsom salt can freshwater plants handle?
<Depends on the species of plants; but most only about as much as you've been using>
Would the original
recommended dose of 1-3 tsp/5gal kill any plants?
<On the high end it may; you could try and just be observant; change water out if you see the plants suffering>
Thanks for maintaining the site, and the always insightful answers! -Joe
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Persistent problem with a bloated freshwater angel fish  10-6-2013
<<Yes, I do agree with Bob that the Epsom salt should be safe for most plants save those that need truly soft water (which is very, very few). All it really does is raise the general (not carbonate) hardness without affecting the pH, and to some degree acts as a muscle relaxant which in turn makes it easier for fish to undo some types of problem (constipation,
bloating, and sometimes dropsy). I will observe that in my experience Dropsy often comes back, so it's as well to identify what might be stressing the fish. Some varieties/species are particularly prone, too, and there may be little you can do to prevent reoccurrence even if you treat the fish successfully. Cheers, Neale.>>
Re: Persistent problem with a bloated freshwater angel fish  10-6-2013
Thanks, glad to hear that it at least won't instantly kill all plants!
I'll start on the low end and keep an eye on the plants.
<Real good. BobF>
Re: Persistent problem with a bloated freshwater angel fish  10-6-2013
Thanks for the second opinion. I’m happy to ‘dose for life’ if that keeps him/her healthy and doesn’t bother the other fish, so here goes.
<<Shouldn't come to that. But if Dropsy keeps reoccurring, you might want to take a more holistic approach. Perhaps an antibiotic / Metronidazole combination, as this seems to fix a variety of systemic problems with Cichlidae generally. Cheers, Neale.>>

Ram pair/ Angelfish with issues.       8/11/13
I have good news and bad news, The good news is I traded the old pair of Bolivian rams, the female was thin and the male kept on beating her and vise versa. the new pair I got for free because I had paid for the old pair and they were in better shape ( the female) then when I got her.. The new pair/ is much healthier / swims side by side and seems to be hitting it off much better then the last pair did.. A employee at my fish store told me they will pay me in cash for any babies if I get any. How many babies can Bolivians make per spawn?.
<As with other South American dwarf cichlids, around 100 eggs are laid, though unless you pull the eggs and rear them yourself, you won't end up with anything like that number of juveniles. Left to themselves, Rams will likely rear around 20-40 offspring. A lot depends on water quality in the tank (nitrates need to be near zero for highest numbers) and the amount of suitable food offered (4 meals minimum, 6 ideal, of small live foods like brine shrimp nauplii).>
Sadly Marbelloh seems to be getting pop eye. I think he may have came like this or gotten it from the stress of shipping to the new tank from the dealers/ect. Sense I have the pair of rams in the tank- I only have 1 tank set up now I was wondering if medicated flakes from Aqua land will help the condition.. What should I do. He seems to be actively swimming around the tank with fins flared- interested in his surroundings but has one eye that is swollen..
Should I test the water? I did a water change earlier this morning.
<As Bob would say, read/search WWM before writing; all this has been covered before. Start here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUsePopEyeF.htm
Cheers, Neale.>
Angelfish with issues/ how to treat with salt.     8/13/13
today I'm going over to my fish shop and getting some stuff to treat Marbelloh the angel with PopEye. I'll get some salt
<Epsom Salt (magnesium sulphate) not regular salt (sodium chloride). Much different thing! Salt will only stress the fish.>
and maybe some medication.
<An antibacterial or antibiotic will be useful, yes.>
sense i don't want to expose my biological filter/rams to the med/salt I have a 5 gallon bucket i was thinking of transferring the angel over to for treatment, putting in an air stone and leaving him overnight in the bucket.. my question is how much should i put in. salt/med wise.
<All this is elsewhere on WWM: *read, don't write* as Bob is wont to say.
Start here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/epsomfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/SaltUseFWArtNeale.htm
Do please understand that Epsom salt is a very specific thing, and you can't substitute regular salt.>
Also could you post a picture of Bolivian ram eggs. I think the female may have laid in a corner. I was called to lunch at the time so I didn't see it happening.
<Google "cichlid eggs" and you'll be rewarded with many thousand images. Do also read elsewhere on WWM re: cichlid breeding; in the case of dwarf cichlids, it's all much of a muchness, and what holds for Pelvicachromis holds for Mikrogeophagus:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/pelmatochromis.htm
Don't worry too much if you fail to rear a batch from the first brood --
keep looking after the fish well, and there'll be many further broods.>
after camp 26-30 of Aug. I plan on moving the fish filter and substrate to a 50 gallon.
<Real good. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Angelfish with issues/ how to treat with salt.     8/13/13
I went and got some T.C Tetracycline to use to try and cure the angelfishes pop eye. my concern is, will a sponge filter remove it from the water- I do not have activated carbon in it but no place to really store the filter and keep it alive. I worry the filter will suck all the med from the water before it does its job. Other than that concern I added the dose to the manufacturers instructions/ the angel seems better but only time will tell.
<Follow the instructions on the packaging. Only activated carbon removes medications; plain biological filtration is harmless. Use a nitrite or ammonia test kit every day or two though, because some antibiotics will kill some of the filter bacteria, which is obviously bad, and it's a good idea to be very cautious about feeding during treatment so you don't overload the filter. Cheers, Neale.>
touch and go. ? More chatting, FW Angel dis.        8/16/13
Well I completed the treatment for PopEye as far as tetracycline goes. plan
on trying to get him to eat something by Saturday . on Saturday i plan on
getting some medication to put into food. I added the doses changed 25% of
the water and waited a good 24 hours then changed a big amount of water
(80%) to try and get as much medication out as posible. The eye swelling is
better and it looks like I'l be able to save the eye. However marbelloh
still doesnt eat/show an intrest in food and hangs near the bottom.
occaionally swimming around., the rams didn't eat either but that was
before the big water change when i offered food./ i did a water change to
vac up the uneaten food and i saw them pecking at the gravel beforehand so
maybe they ate it. Will keep you updated on how the fish are.
I told my mom no more new fish until the angel is back to normal. also
should i wait to put him into the bigger tank- i don't want a shaky filter
to recycle and lose the fish if i am facing a recycle i want to be
prepared.
<Hope things work out. Yes, not adding new fish is important when
medicating your aquarium, or even if you've been having problems. There's a
temptation to add new fish when one's just died, but the wise thing is to
add nothing for a week or two, so you can see if there's a bigger problem
with the aquarium. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: touch and go.       8/16/13
I checked the angelfish this morning. he is doing better still not eating
but swimming all over with fins erect. Any way to get him eating?
<Not really. Cichlids will eat when they're healthy; if they're not eating,
it's because they don't want to. Leave it be, keep medicating as directed
on the packaging, and keep an eye on water quality.>
Does  he need medicated food.
<Medicated food, if used as directed, is indeed better/safer than adding
medicine to the water. If the fish isn't feeding, then you have to medicate
the water. You don't normally do both though, so choose one or the other.>
the rams were eating.  I will try doing another water change this saterday
and test the water this Friday. the water still looks sort of funny with
traces of the med but that should go away soon with the water changes..
<Cheers, Neale.>
improvement.
FW ang. dis chatathon    8/17/13
the angel ate some food yesterday. i was very pleased. the rams also ate
and i did another big water change to remove the last of the meds. and i
think things are back to normal for the most part , the eye still looks
different but at least the angelfish is eating now. what I'll do is feed
smaller portions until we go on vacation/ test the water before we go. I'll
put a no feeding fish sign on my tank, feed when i get back. then move the
fish on to the bigger tank.
<Sounds like a good plan.>
Looks like with my rent rebate I'll get those warm water Corys after getting
other things.. ( because I have a disability my rent rebates are larger
then for others- because I make less at least that's what i was told)
<Well, good luck with the Angelfish! Cheers, Neale.>

ANGELFISH EMERGENCY...was told bob might be able to help????     6/7/13
I have a 29 gallon Marineland night/day aquarium with a penguin bio-wheel filter, a bubble curtain, and fake plants/decorations. I have 4 baby angelfish that I LOVE in this tank. (Am upgrading to 55 gallon in a month. 
I used stability and prime to successfully cycle the tank 3 months ago. My tap water ph is 8,
<High for Angels>
 and so was my tank. i started using RO water (mixed 50/50 with tap water) and lowered it to 7.9. My current readings are: ammonia (under .25....but there),
<Mmm>
 nitrites (0), nitrates (5). the ammonia is due to a mini-cycle caused by medicating. Unfortunately, one angel either got Columnaris or Hexamita. He jerked, shimmied, clamped dorsal and tail fins,  and looked like someone drew a red line outlining his body underneath the dorsal fin. He hung at the top for 2 days (while i tried heat and salt, because i hate throwing more chemicals in the tank). I didn't know what was wrong, he was getting worse, so i mistakenly used Maracyn and Maracyn 2 to try to heal him, which messed up my cycle. My bf (trying to help) decided the whole problem stemmed from me messing with the ph, and did a 50% water change with tap water and prime only...which threw the ph up to 8.4.
<Yikes... very toxic w/ any ammonia present>
We keep trying to be good "parents", but seem to keep making things worse!
the fish then developed a white patch on his head, in the middle of his yellow stripe (which is what made me think Columnaris. but i later read that it may have been caused by Hexamita...hole-in-the-head...and actually be lack of slime). so, i next treated the fish with parasite guard and triple sulpha.
<... please; no more medications. They're doing more harm than good>
 I've also put stability in the BioWheel every other day to try to keep ammonia and nitrites out. He seems almost cured (except the red line remains). Unfortunately, I leave for a 7 day vacation tomorrow, and the tank is showing .25 ammonia.
<Hide all food and med.s and enjoy your trip. Yes; don't feed, nor treat this system further>
A second angel is slightly clamping his dorsal fin, which i think is irritated by ammonia (using prime....they've never been exposed to any). i won't be there to change the water if it spikes, and prime only protects for 48 hours. I am desperate to find a product to keep my babies safe for the week. I bought an aqua clear ammonia remover filter insert, and also AmQuel plus and NovAqua plus because i was told it would keep them safe for 7 days. i put fungus guard
<.....>
 in the tank yesterday (per the instructions the tetra rep i called today gave me), to hopefully clear the red line and white spot (or lack of yellow spot) on his head, which she claimed was a secondary fungal or bacterial problem. i am putting the carbon back in tomorrow, but am scared about the mini-cycle while I'm gone! Could someone PLEASE advise me how to proceed?
<See the above>
 I leave tomorrow. I am a new forum member under kelly5978. I created an album with pictures, to help show you what's going on. I know it's short notice, but I'm begging for help! Also, if the pictures help you know what's really wrong with him, please tell. I plan to work on the ph with regulator or peat when I return!
Thank you, Kelly
<Bon voyage. Bob Fenner>
Re: ANGELFISH EMERGENCY...was told bob might be able to help????     6/10/13
Thanks for responding! I knew all the meds were bad!
<Mmm, they do have their place... but are way too often mis-used>
They've had nothing for 3 days, and everyone seems okay.
<Ah good>
Sparkle has nothing besides a little cloudiness on his tail where he was nipped while sick. I took everything out (meds i mean) with a water change, prime, carbon filter and leaving them alone.
<Very good>
The ph is 7.9. I SLOWLY (.1 every 24 hours) brought it back down with 25% RO AND 75% tap and prime. Has been for 5 days every time I check. Since I put the carbon in, ammonia and nitrites are zero. Nitrates 5. I understand they may still go through mini-cycle. My 3 questions:
1. I set up an automatic feeder (set to lowest setting). Did you say DON'T feed them?
<Yes; or just barely>
I will take it down if that's what's best. I know I'm doing too much and harming them with good Intentions.
2. Do I stop using the RO WATER? I've got such mixed feelings. 8.4 is just sooo high for angels, but I've heard horror stories about RO water crashes.
<I would do as you've been; mixing the RO w/ just "some" tapwater; the latter for a bit of mineral content (necessary)>
I promise of they're alive when I return...no more medicine. I really was trying to help. Just listened to too many people!
<Ah, my friend. In the final synthesis, each of us must decide for ourselves. Listen to others for input; but do require that they have the ability, present the rationale, science backing their opinions>
I do have an er tank now that I will use in the future if needed.
3. Do you advocate aquarium salt on a regular basis in an angelfish tank, or only when sick, or not at all?
<Not at all in the majority of systems, circumstances. Do search, read Neale's article on WWM re>
Thanks so much!
Kelly5978
<Certainly welcome. BobF>
Bob f....what to do now?    6/15/13
Bob responded to my desperate plea about how to handle my sick angelfish on vacation. I cannot find the email, and really need follow up help. My profile is under kelly5978. Bob advised me (very wisely) to put my medications and food away and go on vacation! I did as advised, and all my fish are alive and well...except sparkle. If you read my previous questions, my angelfish was clamping and twisting his fins, shimmying, had a red line under his dorsal fin, etc. Parasite guard and triple sulpha seemed to cure him. Upon my return from vacation, however, he was hiding in the tree stump. I finally coaxed him out and he ate. He has a definite indent or hole on his head (in-between and above his eyes) that is a darker yellow than the rest of his head. I hate to medicate them again, but I can't just watch him die! His tail is also jagged and he stayed the same size, while the others grew while i was gone. The rest of the fish have NO symptoms. I can only think Hexamita (was incorrectly treating for Columnaris). My Lfs does not carry metro or hex. If bob (or anyone on staff) could please advise me one more time, I would be so grateful! Do I just hope water changes help?
<Yes; this is all I'd do>
 Or start parasite guard (which has Prazi and metro as ingredients) again?
<Not a good idea to expose fishes more than once to Metronidazole. Hard on their kidneys>
Or order metro online? I just want to do whatever I can to help him, but know that I go overboard when left to my own devices. I'm sorry to bother you again, but truly hope for help!
Ammonia -.25 before water change. 0 now
Nitrites-0
Nitrates-5
Ph-8.0
<I would lower this over time to the "mid 7's"... with mixing in more RO, perhaps using a commercial (Phosphoric acid-based) pH adjuster... ahead of using change out water. Bob Fenner>
Thank you,
Kelly5978
Re Water change confusion, angelfish troubles.    6/21/13
Hello, and thank you in advance for helping me again. I wrote a few weeks ago, asking what to do about a sick angelfish while I was on vacation. The advise I received was good, so I'm hoping for a little more advise. I have a 30 gallon Marineland tank with a bio-wheel 150 filter, 5 juvenile angelfish, a Pleco baby, fake plants, a little driftwood (recently added to hopefully lower ph), a sponge filter, and bubble curtain. I cycled the tank months ago, but recently used Maracyn (above mentioned sick fish), and other meds, and now get ammonia readings. I have been told Water changes are the answer, but the angels act funny every time i do so! They clamp fins (especially tail fins), don't swim around as much, and seem more than just a little stressed.
<Are you saving the change (new) water up between use? I'd store it/this for a week...>
 I make sure the temp is the same, and use prime. However, i am worried maybe I'm trying too hard to create a perfect tank, and ending up hurting the fish I'm trying to make happy! I'm hoping if you hear my story, you might be able to point out where I am going wrong....and help me get my tank back on track. I love these fish, and feel like all my problems stem from some little thing Im overlooking, or doing incorrectly! Here are the things I am currently doing, that may be to my own detriment.....
1. My ph out of tap is 8-8.2 (way higher than the 7.0 /straight RO water at the lfs). I began mixing 75% tap/25% drinking water (store bought, label states RO, ozonation). It brought my ph to approx 7.8 and I use neutral regulator to keep it there. I recently added driftwood also. I understand a stable ph is more important than a low one, but everything I read about angels indicates they are more affected by ph than other breeds.
<Not so much the cultured (vs. wild-collected ones). You have the former>
 I also bought peat moss, but haven't used it because it doesn't say "aquarium" on the bag, so I am afraid it's not the correct kind, and I don't know if my messing around with the ph isn't worse than just leaving them at a high one! My kH/gH are very high, so i have to use RO water to make any changes. My questions: what is the safest way to lower (and maintain) ph?
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/pHAlkAdjF.htm
Also, is it really that important to angels, or should I just leave it high?
<... I'd keep under 8.0>
 Final ph question: if you advise me to just leave it alone, how do I stop doing the RO water mix without creating a swing?
<... measure the new water to make sure it's about the right pH>
2. As stated above, I treated a sick fish with many different medicines (so stupid!!!!) and Am now going through a mini-cycle, which is even more dangerous because of my high ph. I tested the water just now: ammonia-.25, nitrites-0, nitrates-5, ph-7.8. My questions are: should I keep changing the water daily to get rid of the ammonia, or is it just going to keep coming back until I let it work itself through?
<Stop feeding or feed very sparingly... and hold off on the water changes unless the free ammonia exceeds 0.5 ppm>
I'm just confused as to how "spikes work" (i was once told I leave the ammonia until it reaches 2 ppm, then change water, but got conflicting advise from someone else). My bf gets really upset that I spend so much time changing out water, and believes that if I just leave it alone, the fish will be better off. I just need a professional opinion, which I will follow. I have tried to figure this out through research, but everyone seems to disagree on what works! So, do I keep changing water? Or leave them alone? Again, they seem more stressed by the water changes, and/or the new water, then the ammonia!
3. I believe my sick fish had Hexamita or hole-in-the head. I tried many different medicines (which I know know was very bad), and parasite clear/triple sulpha seemed to finally work. However, a couple of the angelfish still have white poop. Should I worry?
<Not at this point no... the feces could be due to the ammonia presence... THIS needs to be addressed first and foremost. All else is secondary>
4. Final question, specific to angelfish....is there any point to a bubble curtain?
<Not really, no. Mostly for looks>
 I always though it was making the water better (aeration), but I forgot to turn it back on a few days ago, and noticed the angelfish seem much calmer!
I've never seen them so still, just kind of floating around (....and now I will worry that they're too calm...geez I'm a worry wart)! I have battled tank problems and diseases since I started this tank, so I guess I'm not sure what happy fish look like! If they're not gasping, the temp is the same, they are all upright, and they all eat....I'm going to assume they are happy without the bubbles. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
<I'd leave out/off>
Sorry for the long email. I didn't want to bother you folks with 5 different emails about specific subjects, and hope it was ok to just ask them all here. Thank you for your help! I just want the best for my fish!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Water change confusion, angelfish troubles.    6/21/13
You are so wonderful for responding so quickly. The link was invaluable information, but I want to ensure I have this right. First, the white poop could be ammonia related, and i shouldn't worry.
<Correct>
 as for the ammonia, the fish are ok in it under .5ppm, so don't change water until then.
<Not "Ok", but better than suffering the stress of too much, too often water changes>
 Do i need to redose prime every 48 hours?
<No; not a solution and can/does forestall establishment of nitrification>
Or is that low level not lethal?
<... please search, read on WWM rather than writing what is gone over and over... ANY NH3, NH4OH present is debilitating>
 I'd never heard of holding the new replacement water a week before using.
<.... read on WWM>
I'd be afraid of bacteria, but will choose your knowledge over my intuition any day! When do I add the prime? Right before adding to tank? Here's my understanding and questions based on what I read about ph... the RO water is only lowering the  kH/gH, NOT the ph? And the lower ph is actually just unstable ph, that fluctuates, unless I add the buffer? If I am correct on that point, then am I using the correct product -neutral regulator- in my effort to lower ph and soften water?  One of your comments on a different post made me think the "buffer" is to keep a ph from falling, which is the opposite of my problem.  I know the cichlid salts raise ph, and discus buffer lowers. All i want is neutral and stable. So, should i stop using the neutral regulator until i lower the kH and ph to the correct level, and then add it to keep it steady? And, what's the best way to accomplish lowering kH?
<See WWM...>
I know the ph up and down products are no good, but isn't there just an easy way? All these calculations leave way too much room for an error on my part! Are pillows any good? I use an API master kit for the reg readings (Ammon, nitrites, ph), but I use the strips for kH/gH. My results are darker than the darkest level. I probably have no hope at lowering this ph (or kH) but  My fish ARE nervous and shimmy sometimes as if uncomfortable.
And after reading your links regarding how ph works in the wild, and how hard it is to try to manipulate a little aquarium, I'm just wondering if I'm fighting a losing battle.
<Not>
 I love angelfish, and don't want a different type of fish, but I sure don't want to keep my fish in water they hate! The link helped me, but led to more questions. I'm sorry to bother you, but I'm truly trying to understand and do this right. Im sure my confusion is apparent and irritating. sorry. Are there any links that walk you through safely lowering stable ph? With which products to use? Also, would live plants help lower kH/ ph, or give me even more problems?
<Will definitely help>
After reading more, I see that I could possibly just use ALL RO water, and a buffer to create a neutral kH/gH (and ph won't matter). How slowly would I have to do this? And if I achieved it, would it remain stable? If so, would I add buffer only for the amount of replacement water? Or the equivalent of the entire tank again?
I think I understand now that kH is what really matters, and softens the water. Then, a buffer is added to keep ph stable. Is this right? What's the best way to accomplish this?
Again, sorry if I made your head spin with all my questions. My angels are gorgeous, and I truly appreciate your help!
Kelly5978
<Take your time... read. B>
Re: Water change confusion, angelfish troubles.    6/21/13
Sorry, forgot a question....does the API master drop kit measure free ammonia? Or all ammonia? How do you know the difference?
Kelly5978
<... use your search tool w/ the string: "API ammonia test kits, total ammonia?"... Read re Salicylate tests... IF you're using Prime, you'll want to get/use SeaChem's test for both free and total... >

Sickly Angels; FW stocking; mysterious damage to plants      6/4/13
Hi Crew.
First off, let me thank you for all the information on your site, which has been an extremely useful base in order to set up my new aquarium.
<Glad it's been useful to you.>
Here are my aquarium specs: 420L (96 gallons or thereabout), freshwater, with a large filter and a long airstone (about 30 cm). The aquarium is quite densely planted, was well cycled before introducing any fish and has been populated over the last three months with quite a bit of small fish. As it stands now, I have:
- 11 small guppies, who were born in a smaller aquarium and brought into the large one about a month and a half ago.
- 6 golden barbs
- 4 swordtails
- 12 zebra danios
- 16 neon tetras
<Potentially Angelfish food…>
- 2 small Plecos
- 1 smallish angelfish
<Mostly sounds good, though I'd swap the Plecs for Bristlenose Plecs (Ancistrus spp.) because common Plecs will [a] get territorial towards one another and [b] as adults will simply ruin this tank, pulling up plants and making the water go cloudy with their waste.>
My idea is to keep the population more or less as it is, letting whatever fry survive (one of the baby guppies is already pregnant) find its place without adding any more. I haven't witnessed any particular problems between species (although yes, I am aware that when the angelfish grows big I am likely to see some of my smaller fish disappear),
<Quite so.>
at most a couple of my zebra danios chasing after each other.
<May be females… it's the males that tend to be semi-aggressive in small groups.>
No sign of fin-nipping on the angelfish, as far as I can tell.
<Good.>
All of that said, here's my question. The angelfish used to be two, but one used to spend most of its time right below the filter, without eating much or moving around a whole lot. About a week ago I found him (or her) swimming very weakly and having trouble staying vertical, in addition to drifting away in the filter's current when he/she came close to it.
<How small is a "small" Angelfish? A lot of the very small specimens sold in pet shops -- the ones with coin-sized bodies -- react badly to transportation, and in my experience have quite a high probability of dying for some undeterminable reason. Do also bear in mind that Angels come from still to sluggish flowing water habitats, rather than the faster flowing streams favoured by Danios and even more so Swordtails (just look at how streamlined Swordtails are, and you get a sense of how much they want moving water and swimming space). Anyway, if the water current is more than gentle, Angels won't be happy, especially baby Angels.>
I immediately removed the fish from the aquarium and tried to quarantine it but it died during the night. Since then, my remaining angelfish, who used to be more lively, is spending most of his time hanging out by the filter, without moving that much. He still eats fine, but his change of behavior and the fact that he is starting to do what the other one used to do worries me. At this point, I'd love some advice about what to do. I've read that groups of six or more are best for angelfish, but I'm not sure whether my aquarium is overcrowded already.
<Remove the Plecs, and there'll be ample space for more Angels.>
I change about 15% of the water every weekend, but will be away for four weeks in about two months, during which the fish will be fed but the water won't be changed.
<Not a problem, so long as the tank isn't densely stocked, the fish are fed sparingly, and you don't add any new fish in the two or three weeks before you go away.>
Any thoughts ? Am I doing something wrong, or do I simply need to get my angelfish some company ?
<Unless you want a large group of Angels, I would not. Two or three Angels doesn't always work, and sometimes bullying happens. You find they're best kept singly, in mated pairs, or groups of 6+ specimens.>
The other fish I have in the aquarium are also quite active, so maybe that's disturbing the angelfish ?
<Likely so.>
Thanks for any help, and here are the water details to clear any doubts: nitrites at 0, nitrates perhaps just above 0 (unfortunately I am using the strip tests which aren't all that precise), pH around 6.8 (that's the pH of the water here and I've read it's better to stick with what I  have rather than try to tamper with pH up or similar, KH around 15-20, GH I'd say between 0 and 10.
<Sounds fine for the majority, but the pH is a little low for livebearers, even though the hardness seems quite high. Keep an eye on them.>
Also, while I'm at it - some of my plants tend to get eaten at night.
<Plecs. Even if they don't eat them, they damage them while rasping off the algae, or else snap off/uproot plants while digging.>
Still manageable, and I've been putting some small pieces of papaya in the aquarium in the evening, which seems to have worked, as they are nowhere to be seen in the morning (except an occasional chunk which I remove in the morning) and the plants seem less affected by the fish. Is this something I can keep doing or could that cause some problems ? Any other suggestions on alternatives ?
Thanks !
Stefano
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

Angel fish     5/25/13 Hi Crew, <Laura> It has been a while since I have written because everything has been going well. I have attached a picture of my angel fish. These growths appeared on it yesterday. I think it looks like cotton. <... need to sample, look under a 'scope to be sure, but true fungal issues are rare... This is likely bacterial following a trauma...>  It appears to be painful for the fish as the area around the growth is very red. I tested my water and there is no ammonia and all other components are within range. The angel fish is in with 3 hatchet fish, 6 bamboo shrimp, 3 peppered catfish, and 3 snails. The tank is 75 gallons. The only thing that has been added recently is one bamboo shrimp. Any advice provided will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Laura <Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_2/mycobactera.htm and the linked infectious disease FAQs at the bottom. Bob Fenner>

Sick angels, one with lumps and one with missing scales & rotting fins... Too large pix files, no reading on WWM   5/3/13 I have a 75 gallon currently stocked with the following: 2 medium-sized angels, 1 gold dojo loach, 1 2.5" clown Pleco, 1 4" leopard Ctenopoma, <Mmm; can be aggressive> 1 albino Cory & 7 rainbows (2-3"). <What/which species?>  The problems began a week and a half ago when I found my third angel viciously attacking the black one (out of no where). I removed him from the tank. At the time the black angel was missing some scales and had tail & fin damage. Soon after I noticed bumps on my gold pearl angel. One bump (on its right side) has a dark center that has been growing. Otherwise these bumps have remained mostly the same. Neither angel healed as quickly as I'd thought; while the black one's fins & tail healed very quickly, its scaleless areas seemed to be growing. I checked the parameters, and all was zero, except there was a small amount of nitrates. I forgot to check for pH, I'm now realizing. Anyway, fearing bacterial infections, I moved both to the hospital tank & treated with Maracyn & Maracyn 2. <Sensible> There were no changes other than that the largest lump on the gold pearl grew a bit, and the dark center grew a bit too. My LFS recommended treating them with Melafix, <Of no use; may even be detrimental... interrupting nitrification>  so I put them back in the 75 gallon & began treatment--all following a 35-40% water change. (The black angel was attacking the gold pearl in the small hospital tank.) They also said that if I was worried I could treat for parasites, so I treated fully with Tetra Parasite Guard because I had it on hand. This produced no changes. <... these fish (same species, actually cross) don't have pathogenic disease... these are wounds born of being attacked, bitten by some other fish> Now, today (day 3 of Melafix), the black one has white areas on its tail fins and some missing pieces of its tail. <It's the API tea extract... see WWM re... worse than a sham... It's poisoning your angels> There was no fraying at the ends, but rather the fraying started closer to the base & caused breakage. There are also a few more small regions where scales are missing. The worst area (on the black angel's left side) seems to be more if a hole now, although there is no redness; it just looks deeper. The attached pics were taken a few days ago before this worsened. Please help! Both fish are acting & eating fine, and all other fish in the tank appear fine. The tank is filtered with a 75-gal Aqueon & a 90-gal Marineland BioWheel. We feed the fish flake, cichlid pellets & occasionally frozen bloodworms. We perform weekly water changes of 20-25%. Thanks! <All these fish need is enough space, clean water, and a dearth of getting beaten (by each other?). Bob Fenner>

Re: Sick angels, one with lumps and one with missing scales & rotting fins     5/3/13 Thank you very much for the quick response, Bob! In my opinion this site is the best for researching and resolving fish issues, but I didn't realize I'd get such a fast response. <Heeee! Depends "who's on"... Do ding dang hot here in San Diego (nineties F) that can't work on garden, barely stand to cook> The leopard Ctenopoma is a gentle giant and sticks to herself unless her curiosity gets the better of her, in which case she just approaches a fish and gives it a once-over (unless it's small enough to be consumed). The attacks were definitely caused by the marble angel. He has been a problem off and on for some time, but never to this degree. <I see> My primary concern was and is that some of the regions/bumps are growing. If you think that all they need are space and pristine conditions, then we will do a large water change tonight and reinsert the carbon into the filters, as well as stop the Melafix. I will continue with daily changes until they are healed, hopefully, <Yes; this is all I would do... not likely this is anything parasitic; that needs treating> I would really like to make sure you are of the same mind after viewing the pics. Or did you see them, and they were just not able to be posted to the WWM site? Thanks again! <We're just limited on space period. Hence ask folks to limit file sizes. BobF>