Sick porcupine puffer – 07/14/08
Hi guys, thanks for the info, our porcupine puffer died last night.
<Sorry to hear that.>
I’m sure it was the marine velvet. We will miss her. We now have to treat the dragon wrasse. Do you guys recommend using copper?
<Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm , http://www.wetwebmedia.com/velvetfaqs.htm and http://www.wetwebmedia.com/copperfa.htm . A search for “copper” within these pages will return a lot of useful information. Use an adequate (chelated vs. ionic copper) test kit to keep the copper at a reasonable level (depends on product). Good luck, Marco.

Powder Blue "pimples"  7/3/08
Hi and happy 4th of July to everyone at WWB.
<?>
I'm writing in regards to a problem I have with Peanut, my Powder Blue Tang. I bought him a little over a month ago and immediately put him in a 40gal QT. I observed him for a period of 3 weeks and I didn't notice any problems, no parasites, no signs of disease, eating frozen food and the dry algae sheets. The fish is about 4 to 5 inches in length. Then I thought everything was great and put Peanut in my 150gal FOWLR. He acclimated very well and none of my other fish bothered him. If anything he bothered my Foxface at first, but then they became friends. A week later however, I noticed something very odd. He had what looked like pin sized pimples all over his body. They were not white like ich and it looked like they were under the skin. He didn't seem bothered, still very active and eating like a pig. I waited hoping these "pimples" would go away but they didn't so now Peanut is back in the QT, except I have no idea what is wrong or how to medicate for this problem. If these pin sized pimples were white, I'd say ich, although none of my other fish have it and the tank has been ich free for 6 months. Still, anything is possible. Any idea what these are? They're only on the body, nothing showing up on any of the fins.
My tank parameters:
Ammonia and Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20
pH: 8.3
Density: 1.025
Other tank mates: 5" Foxface, 4" Picasso Trigger, 4" Niger Trigger, 4" Yellow Canary Wrasse, 2" Juvi Queen Angel. Again, there was no aggression at all. The Niger is the most aggressive in the tank but it never bothered the tang.
Thanks,
Peter
<Mmm, likely Sporozoans... not easily treated... Could be encysted worms... these might be treated with a vermifuge. Bob Fenner>

Ich and inverts? 6/17/08
Morning Crew :D
<Hello>
This may sound like a strange question, but is it possible to introduce Ich (or any other parasite/disease) into a reef tank on invertebrates such as clams, shrimp or corals?
<Oh yes.>
Knowing how susceptible these are to copper I'm assuming a QT would be used here, in which case what would the procedure be, i.e. would the usual 4-5 week quarantine period be enough or too much?
<Would be just about right, as long as you do not QT it with fish of course.>
What signs would you need to look for?
<Nothing you can see really, just time for the potential parasites to complete a lifecycle without fish.>
Many thanks again for all your help and for such a great resource,
Carolyn
<Welcome>
<Chris>

A bit of advice please... SW fish protozoan dis.   6/4/08
Hi Guys,
<Ashok>
I am Ashok from Chennai, India. I have been a fresh water aquarist for the past 20 years and had success in commercially breeding cichlids and other varieties in a small scale.
I got fascinated about reef aquariums after having a chance to see a couple of really good maintained ones during my visit to Kansas. A few friends recommended your site To get my first FOWLR tank started 4 months ago. I found excellent advice and thanks a lot for that. I need some advice from you guys as the reef keeping hobby is at a very early Stage in this country. Further Soft and Hard Corals are totally banned
<A shame... many beautiful organisms off your coast... not threatened by careful collection>
leaving me with a choice of a FOWLR tank.
<I see>
My tank is around 4 months now. It’s a 300 gallon display with a 300 gallon sump, 200 Kg of LR, Aqua Medic Needle wheel skimmer, a 20 Watt UV with 5000L/Hr return pump,
I have a DSB (5 inches of aragonite sand) and a wet dry system in the sump, carbon for chemical filtration.
I also have a Chiller (Its really hot here during summers) and the following are the parameters
Tank cycled for 3 months, NH3 – 0, NO2 – 0, NO3 – 10ppm, S/G – 1.020 @ 27’C.
<I'd raise this... no more than a thousandth per day... to 1.025>
(I check water parameters every week using a red sea test kit)
Tank maintenance - Weekly 10% water changes, daily top up, twice a day feeding using Sera Granumarin, 2 little fishes algae sheets, Krill
I introduced my first batch of fish (Maroon clown, Yellow tang, Powder brown tang and regal tang) after 21 days of QT (In a 180 gallon QT with a internal power filter- 50 liter water change every 2 days once)
All went well until my maroon clown suddenly wouldn’t eat and died in a day in the display after 7 days of introducing him in the display
Later I suspected itch/Brooklynella and have put rest of the fish back to QT and let the display fallow for 15 days.
<Mmm, not long enough if this is/was Crypt>
(My water is prepared 7 days in advance using Red SeaSalt mix)
My question is, If the fish didn’t show any symptoms in QT how did itch catch up in the display after 6 days in spite of good water quality.
<Can remain "hidden" (subclinical)...>
Now the rest of the fish are healthy eating and doing good in the QT. I have used copper with F/W baths and formalin baths as advised.
How should I ensure this doesn’t happen again….
<Rigorous dip/bathing and quarantine...>
Read a lot in your site but I don’t know where I went wrong.
<Perhaps you didn't "go wrong"... this does read more like Brooklynellosis... very hard to discern...>
Also kindly advise if I have done everything in the right way.
Thanks and Regards,
Ashok Poondi
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Cloudy fins, SW fish diag.    5/30/08
Hi, I have a Longnose Butterfly that is covered in a fine "dust". It covers his fins and makes them look cloudy.
<Err... such cloudiness is often symptomatic of Amyloodinium, aka Velvet... very bad>
It also covers the front of his body and recently five or six spots turned up on each eye. Initially I thought they were air bubbles because they didn't always seem to be in the same spots and he eats really well, doesn't scratch against rocks, and is not shy. He has been developing the spots for about a month now
<Oh! Then this is something else. Velvet would have killed all your fishes w/in hours to days>
and I have hesitated to treat him for fear of killing him with the treatment when I wasn't sure he was sick.
<You are wise here... Perhaps the root cause is environmental... not pathogenic>
When the spots turned up on his eyes and didn't go away after I turned off my skimmer I decided they weren't air bubbles and he must have something. I removed him from my main tank, gave him a freshwater dip with Methylene blue and put him in a quarantine. The spots are very small and I can't tell what color they are except to say they aren't white. My water quality is good (0 ammonia, 15 ppm Nitrates) and everything is consistent in my tank except sometimes the fish only get fed once a day. No other fish show signs of illness. Do you think this is a parasite? fungus?
<I do think this Forcipiger may be infested with subcutaneous worms of some sort or perhaps Sporozoans...>
Should I treat with copper? dips?
<Mmm, none of these>
When treating with copper should I remove my bio wheel from the quarantine tank and put it in the sump of my main tank to avoid killing off the good bacteria during treatment?
Thanks,
Brendon
<I would first try a vermifuge... See WWM re: http://wetwebmedia.com/vermifugefaqs.htm
and in series (after the above) an anti-protozoal (likely Metronidazole/Flagyl) administered through foods/feeding. Bob Fenner>

Can apparently uninfected fish be carriers?
Preventing The Spread of Parasitic Illness.. 5/6/08
Hi Crew,
<Hey there! Scott F. here today!>
On March 30 I had a sudden die off of 3 fish in my 90 gallon. I had quarantined a little Tang I bought for about 3-4 weeks.
<Excellent practice!>
He was only about 1.5 inches so I thought he would be fine in my old nano which was well cycled. I was pretty sure the Eunicid worm that used to reside in the rock had met his demise since I hadn't seen it for a while. Well, one day I went up and I couldn't find my little Blue Tang. I picked up the rock and turned it over a few times and no fish. I went downstairs and when I came back up he was back in his favorite hiding place behind the heater. I was rather worried that the worm was still alive. Not thinking logically, I decided to move it to the main tank.
<Uh oh...have a hunch where this is going.>
Within a day or 2 he started showing signs of ich or velvet but he was still eating. The Coral beauty was little aggressive toward him which didn't help. Any way about 2 days later I woke up and all 3 algae eaters were dead. They were eating fine the night before. I think if it disease maybe it was velvet because of the speed it took.
<A very good hypothesis. This illness attacks and kills with astounding rapidity.>
We put Advantage on our cats that day also. May be possible some got on the Nori?
<It is possible if you didn't wash your hands after administering this medication. Although the symptoms that you are describing seem indicative of a disease rather than a poisoning event of some sort.>
Anyway my 2 Perculas, my corals, snails and my cleaner shrimp are fine. I immediately removed the Clowns and initially put the recommended dose of Cupramine in the quarantine. I removed the live rock from the quarantine to an un cycled tank in the garage. I dosed them for a couple days and had a hard time keeping the level up without getting too much. Anyway I quit dosing them because they are obviously not sick. My question is should I dose them for a period of time in case they are carriers before I put them back in the main tank? I'm looking at a 10 week fallow period which would be June 8.
<Good questions. However, I would not dose copper prophylactically in the future, because of potential "collateral damage" issues/ In your situation, a two month fallow period makes sense. You simply cannot be too careful with a disease like Marine Velvet. By removing all fishes from the display, and by allowing the Clowns a period of time for observation, you're sort of covering all the bases. Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Blue tang and black&white Sweetlips scratching, SW parasites  – 03/20/08
I recently battled my first ich outbreak in 8 years and after copper treatment all the fish are back in the display. The two fish have been scratching for over two weeks now but no other signs that the ich has returned. I added about 40 lbs of live rock and have noticed a small trace of nitrites -- about .1.
<Mmm>
Could the nitrites be causing the fish to scratch?
<Yes>
All indications are that the fish are very healthy. Also, yesterday I saw what I thought was an ich spot on my Foxface,
<Not ich/crypt if just one spot>
but today the spot on its side seemed to grow far larger than any ich spot I've ever seen. Today it was gone -- could that have been lymph?
<Not likely>
The spot protruded from its side and fell off. Anyway, I'm really concerned about the ich returning, and would like to know how long before spots would show up if the scratching is ich related.
<Could be>
Again could the scratching just be water quality related as its only these two fish?
<They're more sensitive likely... You are to be congratulated for keeping a Sweetlips/Plectorhynchine... not easily done. Bob Fenner>

Sick tank - how to proceed 03/04/2008
Hi Crew!
<Don>
I love your site! I visit it almost daily.
<I'm here every ding dang day... and really like it>
About three months ago, I upgraded from a 29 gallon fish-only, to a 55 gallon reef tank. At that time, I moved my 29 to my office at work (the fish went into my reef), and started a new fish-only there. In the three years I had run the tank in my house, I had never encountered any disease, fungus, parasite, etc. In hindsight, I realize how lucky I was. I put three fish in the tank in the office - a false Perc, a yellow-tailed blue damsel, and a royal Gramma.
I need to pause here to admit my mistake of never running a QT tank (I now have a 10-gallon setup at home). Huge mistake!
<You're learning!>
Within two weeks of adding the Gramma, the Damsel had some white stuff on the underside of its mouth. Not sure what it was, I extracted him from the tank and brought him back to the LFS where they would quarantine and treat it. Shortly after that, the Gramma stopped eating and, although I could not see any signs of any other problems externally, within a couple of days he was dead. About a week later, the Clownfish stopped eating and had some stringy feces hanging from it. After researching your site, I concluded that it was likely an internal parasite, and started slowly lowering the specific gravity and increasing the temperature. I also treated the tank, since the Clown was the only inhabitant, with Formalin and Malachite Green,
<Mmm, these won't treat internal matters>
for 6 days, per the instructions of my LFS. During and after treatment, I tested the water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates, and all were good (ammonia, nitrites - 0, nitrates - 20). Unfortunately, the poor fish never got better, and has died as well.
<...>
This was a very depressing series of events, to say the least. I am very dedicated to my tanks and their inhabitants, and am constantly reading, learning, testing, and performing regular water changes. Despite all this, I feel like a bad parent.
<Mmm, hopefully getting better>
I now have the tank running, which has about 2 inches of fine sand, some bare coral rock for decoration and hiding places, and a Penguin bio-wheel filter, with the only inhabitants being two hermit crabs. My question is, how long should I leave the tank running before adding new inhabitants?
<Six weeks or so>
Would adding a cleaner shrimp first help to rid the tank of any lingering parasites?
<No>
Could the shrimp become infected as well?
<Not really likely, no>
Thanks for all your help, which you unknowingly provide me often. I promise to quarantine from this point forward.
Also, kudos to you guys for insisting on good spelling and grammar.
Don Austin
<We try... do let Non-native speakers slide quite a bit (I often think how bad my Persian, Turkish, Macedonian... might be...), as well as children, folks of apparent diminished capacity... What do "people" owe us/me/WWM? Common courtesy... I thank you for yours. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

First attempt_Marine Aquarium_Disaster -01/29/2008
Hello, I need a few questions answered after my tank being devastated by a parasitic disease that doesn't quite match the symptoms of ich or velvet so I'm reluctant to call it either. (No, I didn't quarantine, but definitely will after this very costly experience).
<ah, school of hard knocks?>
I made several mistakes in my initial set-up. My tank is a 90 gallon with 70lbs of live rock and live sand. All I had on it were a couple of powerheads and a HOB Remora Pro skimmer. I had only 2 Anthias in the tank for 2 months, and they were doing quite well. I then introduced a juvenile Kole tang which never seemed at ease, always freaked out when people would walk by. After a month, the tang appeared ill. White powder-like dust was on its fins and it would rub/scratch itself against the rock. I initially thought it was ich but realized soon that it didn't match the appearance of ich as seen in online photos. I tried to catch the tang or any of the fish, after setting up a hospital tank, but could never succeed - a fish trap which cost me $40
<Hmm, and how much did your fish cost?>
and is essentially a primitive acrylic box, did not work. The tang died and suddenly one of the Anthias start showing symptoms, although different ones. The Anthias' skin was peeling, eyes slightly swollen, breathing heavy. It died the next day.
<Have you read through this yet?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm>
A few days earlier I talked to one of the workers at my LFS , and he told me that my set-up was not proper. So I bought a pro-clear wet dry filter, UV sterilizer, and an in sump skimmer. I was reluctant after reading about negativities over bio-balls on this site, but my LFS has exquisite looking tanks,
<I do believe Bioballs can work well enough for fish-only tanks.>
the independent tanks with such sump/filters installed. So finally a few days ago all of these were installed and I was down to only 2 fish, now having lost 3 in 4 days.
The tank looked a lot better with much more water flow- much less algae on the glass - my 2nd Anthias even looked much happier swimming around. Unfortunately he/she (it was an in-between) died the next day, having shown symptoms all of a sudden and dying 5 hours later. So I am down to 1 Firefish (assuming he's going to die soon) and about 15 snails and 15 hermit crabs.
<Amyloodinium maybe?>
Here's the scariest part which I just noticed and prompted me to email you:
From a distance, it looks like there are microbubbles floating on the glass. At close inspection I can see that they are not bubbles but little white moving dots. At EXTREME close inspection I can see that they are living organisms moving around freely. I'm assuming that whatever parasites infested and knocked off my fish have now multiplied and truly taken over my tank.
<Uh, not necessarily... quite likely these "white moving dots" are something else entirely (copepods maybe).>
So from what I've read here the appropriate thing to do is leave the tank fallow for 8 weeks. Will this only be enough to get rid of the parasites? Any other suggestions?
<Well, it can't hurt to let the tank age a bit with the new changes/equipment.>
I will get a quarantine tank and quarantine every fish, but I'm confused over some info which seems to be different depending on who I ask. How long should the quarantine last? I've read 2 weeks, 3 and 6 weeks. My tang did not show any symptoms until 4 weeks so if I would have quarantined him for 2 weeks it would not have done much good.
<Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm
Also look at the "related FAQs" links at the top.>
Will quarantine really eliminate any possibility of outbreaks?
<Possibly not entirely, but it does/will greatly reduce the risk of it.>
Did the parasites come from somewhere else or is it most likely the tang brought it in?
<either>
Also in the future I would like to get corals. Should they be quarantined too?
<Yes, please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quarinverts.htm>
Separately from fish? Can I add corals while I'm leaving my tank fallow for 8 weeks? Can corals also bring any of these diseases?
<Yes, probably not, and yes... please do some reading on this site (and/or elsewhere if need be). There is a LOT already written on these topics.>
Thanks.
<De nada,
Sara M.>

Re: First attempt_Marine Aquarium_Disaster -01/29/2008
Just wanted to update on those tiny white creatures on my glass; My Firefish is currently eating them.
<cool... live food is good for the fish>
He keeps going at the glass and feasting. Are they not parasites but just copepods, zooplankton?
<quite likely, yes>
Where would they have come from?
<Copepods/amphipods/etc. are almost ubiquitous hitch-hikers on live rock, coral, just about anything wet will potentially carry them.
Best,
Sara M.>

Treatment Troubles, SW parasites...   1/26/08
I have a 3 month old 65 gallon tank with three fish: a clownfish, a dot-dash butterfly, and the recently added coral beauty (I am taking it slow).
<Mmm, I would have waited on the BF and Centropyge...>
I committed the cardinal sin of fishkeeping and did not quarantine any of them. The day after adding the Coral Beauty, I noticed minute white specks peppering the top half of it's body. I have experience with freshwater ich, and these spots were far tinier and more abundant. I concluded that it was velvet, and immediately (after doing some internet research) bought some copper safe, a copper test kit, and a sponge filter. I disassembled my rock formations and caught all three fish, moving them to a twenty gallon tank for treatment, bare but for the sponge, a heater, and a few (dead) rocks
<... will still absorb the copper...>
for them to hide behind. I've been maintaining a copper level of 2,
<Units? Significant figures please>
and have been doing daily water changes to keep down the ammonia, which has been hovering around .5.
<ppm? Way too high, toxic>
I'm using tap water, and stress coat for the purpose of dechlorination.
<The Stress Coat product will precipitate out the medication if it's present, and can give false positive results for ammonia tests...>
The first couple days the fish acted lethargic. In the main tank, even before I got the Coral Beauty, the butterfly made frequent trips to the cleaner shrimp to have things removed from it's gills, in spite of acting healthy in every other regard. In the treatment tank, it flashed against the rocks until it injured itself. It also would twitch or shake occasionally, which I read can be a sign of poor water conditions, so I stepped up the water changes. After the first few days, the shaking and the flashing stopped, and the scrapes are now gradually healing. The butterfly still hovers in the path of the bubbles from the sponge filter, positioning itself so that the air massages it's gills and scrapes. The clown has shown absolutely no spots or "sick" behavior. By day four of the treatment, all three fish were all acting significantly better, and were all swimming and eating voraciously. It's now day ten, and they are all acting happy and healthy.
<Perhaps the parasite population is cycling...>
Now... I did not have a spare light for this tank, so the fish have been living with only the dim ambient light of the room. I have tried unsuccessfully to shine a flashlight on the Coral Beauty to check out the specks, but every time the flashlight approached, the fish darted behind a rock. I finally got a light for the tank today, and low and behold, there is a spot. A large, ich-like spot.
<Mmm, this may be "nothing">
Color me perplexed. That was not there when I began the treatment. That's not what I thought I was treating, and even if it was, why is it still here ten days later, in a tank full of copper? Obviously, I don't have experience with this, but I really care about these fish and feel willing to potentially make an idiot of myself for their well-being, including hauling a four gallon bucket of saltwater back and forth to the tank 2 or 3 times a day. Am I doing something wrong, or am I just impatient?
<Mmmm...>
How long should this take? Is it possible that instead of ich, this new white spot is something else, like a very small tumor? (a possibly stupid question, but I did say I am willing to make an idiot of myself.)
<Again, I would not be overly concerned with the spot... the "dusting" you treated for may have been (likely was) Crypt... if Amyloodinium/Velvet, your fishes would likely be dead...>
Thank you. Your website has made up the bulk of my reading in the last few months.
Sara K.
<Please do set aside a bit of time to read on WWM re formalin bath/dips... consider their use here... Ignore the one white dot. Bob Fenner>