Anthias with worms? Human influence opportunities... Important!  03/22/07
Hello again guys / gals. I notice my Ventralis anthias has clear / white feces and am guessing he must have intestinal parasites.
<Ahh... so wonderful to be able to influence such young, growing minds/awarenesses...>
I was considering different medications to use and would appreciate your input on what would work best for my situation. The medications I am looking into are:
Fenbendazole at 7.6 Mg per gallon
Metronidazole
Praziquantel
and Paracide D
Any suggestions would be wonderful, the fish has not lost weight, however  he is obviously losing nutrients somewhere.
Thank you so much,
Brian  Crenshaw
<My REAL (why not?) advice is for you instead to invest in a copy of Ed Noga's "Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment" (expensive, I know... and have chatted w/ him re... Maybe get the fish store to buy a copy for your use as well as theirs...) AND a QX-3...4...5? Microscope... and to LOOK here, way before dumping such medicines on your livestock... Much knowledge, discovery awaits you... which I'm sure (very) that you'll be sharing. BobF>

Re: Anthias with worms?   3/22/07
Hello again Bob,
Thank you for your recommendation on "Fish Disease, Diagnoses &  Treatment", I ordered it today, as well as Anthony's new "Book of Coral  Propagation", and a QX5 digital microscope.
<Ahhh! Outstanding! Heeee! I hope you won't mind, but your apparent experiences, curious-seeking behavior reminds me a great deal of myself when I was young/er...>
Sorry for the onslaught of  E-Mails, but I trust your advice (and the crews) over anyone else's.
<No worries... Is a pleasure to aid you>
I am still  learning, however I do know enough to know not many (if any) people in my area  know enough to help me out.
<Mmm, thank goodness for the Net... and all the more opportunity for you to help others... educate them, raise their knowledge, intelligence levels>
Wet Web Media along with your books have really  helped me tremendously and I look forward to seeing more writings from you in  the future. If you would be interested I would also love to send you a photo of  the reef I have been working so hard on.
Best regards,
Brian  Crenshaw
<Please do Brian. Bob Fenner>

The Itchy and Scratchy Show. SW parasitic disease diagnosis, trtmt. possibilities    9/2/07
Hi Bob and Co.,
<Art>
Thanks for all the expert advice this site provides... I am in dire need of some of that expertise, regarding a parasite problem and how to treat multiple types of fishes simultaneously, in one hospital tank.
I'll try to be succinct.
<Hotay>
First of all, I have already moved all my fishes to my 30 gallon hospital tank, letting my reef tank go fallow. It will be 2 weeks on labor day. As soon as I moved them, I began lowering the salinity in the hospital tank, until it reached 1.0165 (a week ago today). I raised the temperature to 80 degrees-- I would have raised it higher, were it not for the Ventralis Anthias and Helfrichi Firefish. I have been running a UV sterilizer on the HT as soon as I put the fish in, and also vacuuming the bottom of the tank , removing and replacing a couple of gallons at least every other day. There are 2 Aquaclear 70 power filters on it (no carbon). There is no substrate, only a few PVC pipes and 3 rocks for hiding places ( the rocks did not come from my infested display tank).
I believed all the fishes had ich or were exposed to it, and I chose hyposalinity because of the diversity of rare, hard to find (and expensive) fishes I have collected. I have killed as many fishes as I have cured using copper, no matter how carefully I follow directions or how slowly I build up the dose-- in my experience, you can't tell how much copper a fish can tolerate until it's dead or irreparably damaged (I used Cupramine and yes, I used the correct test kit to monitor the dosage).
Currently, I have a Candy Basslet (Liopropoma Carmabi), Yellow Assessor, Helfrichi Firefish, Pygmy Possum Wrasse (Wetmorella Triocellata), Flagtail Dartfish ( Ptereleotris uriditaenia), Ventralis Anthias, and a Mandarin. I know the Mandarin doesn't tolerate copper (well) and I suspect the same is true for the Helfrichi Firefish and the Dartfish.
<Agreed>
I assumed the culprit was ich because the Firefish, Dartfish, Anthias, and Candy Basslet -- in that order--were all scratching their gills against rocks etc.. I actually saw very light outbreaks of ich on the Firefish , Possum Wrasse and perhaps the Mandarin. I did 20% water changes 6 days in a row, vacuuming the substrate each time. The ich usually disappeared, and the scratching stopped for some fish, and became far less frequent for others. The Anthias continued to solicit a Neon Goby and a Blood Shrimp to clean his gills. From the first symptom, this scenario occurred over a period of at least 8 weeks before I decided to catch everything and treat in my hospital tank. I decided to do this when the Candy Basslet started scratching, and a Neon Goby and a Catalina Goby came down with a heavier, visible concentration of ich (I did not move them to the hospital tank and they are no longer in the display tank either).
I have still never seen ich on the Anthias, Candy Basslet or Dartfish. When I first moved the fishes, the scratching stopped. A couple of days ago, they started again. Last night I performed FW dips (with Methylene Blue, temperature and pH adjusted) on the fishes that were scratching (Candy Basslet, Possum Wrasse, Firefish, Anthias and the Mandarin, who wasn't scratching). They were doing fine today, but by evening, the Candy Basslet and Possum Wrasse were scratching again. I have continuously checked the ammonia since they were moved, and it has always been zero.
<Good>
In the last couple of days, I have begun to suspect that these fishes have been infected with velvet.
<Yes... possibly this or even other protozoan/s...>
I am sure that some fish had ich, because I saw it-- could these that are scratching their gills and do not show parasites have something else?
<Yes>
I remember once, a year and a half ago, I had a similar situation with a trio of Hippo Tangs. I used Formalin baths, but the next evening, the Tangs would be scratching their gills again. I finally realized that they only did this at night, when the tank lights were on. I told the LFS owner about this, and he said that Velvet was dependent on light, and if I kept the tank in total darkness for 72 hours, the Velvet parasites would die. This actually seemed to work-- I lost one Tang in the blackout, but the other two were cured, as far as I could tell-- because they stopped scratching.
<Is an old timey approach... Amyloodinium is a Dinoflagellate... partially photosynthetic...>
Starting tomorrow, I will be observing my fishes to see if they are scratching in the daytime, when the tank lights are off.
Have you ever heard of/used this light deprivation treatment, and do you consider it effective in treating velvet (or any other parasite you suspect is the culprit) ?
<Have heard and even used it... more effective with Freshwater Velvet... not always such predictable results with marines>
I am still not fully convinced this is velvet-- I don't see any dusting (a later symptom, I have read), and they are not hyperventilating or hanging near the surface. Their appetites seem to be somewhat diminished, but this could be from their new surroundings, or maybe lowered salinity? I'm not sure.
<Need a microscope... some simple stains... Not hard to take a look/see... Do you have access to a copy of Ed Noga's Fish Disease, Diagnosis and Treatment?>
Also, from what I have read, if it was velvet, these fishes would likely be dead by now, as this has been going on for a few weeks.
<Mmm, generally, yes... but you have been treating for this possibility...>
With the exception of the symptoms I have described, they look and behave like healthy fishes. None of them have any visible ich parasites-- the Wrasse and Mandarin have 'cleared' since being in the low salinity HT.
Based on what I have told you, what is your diagnosis?
<That you need a scope and at least a read through Noga...>
I am considering starting the blackout treatment ASAP-- to me, it doesn't make sense to stress the fish with capture and dipping, only to return them to a tank where they will be reinfested. If the blackout is indeed effective, it seems like the least harmful way to diminish the parasite population in the tank to a 'tolerable' level, without killing the biological filter or accidentally poisoning the fishes. After the blackout and the fishes have readjusted to the light, I am planning to give them all FW dips, and simultaneously do a large (up to 50%) water change, just to further reduce the number of remaining parasites. If the fishes do not respond to FW dips, I suppose I will very cautiously try Formalin dips (or baths).
Does this sound like the right treatment course to you?
<Mmm, no... a bit too stressful for these fishes (and most species) to be in such total darkness... I would go the Quinine Sulphate route here if you did not have quick access to the scope... or not. See WWM, FishyFarmacy re...>
What parasite(s) do you think is/are responsible?
<Can't tell... could be simply Crypt... might be Crypt and Amyloodinium... could be... other Protists...>
As you can see, I am really paranoid about putting medication directly in the hospital tank. With all my fishes in there, it would be a disaster if I killed the biological filter, and I can't think of a 'one size fits all' effective medication for my diverse inhabitants that will not poison at least some of them. Please, any suggestions are welcome (short of setting up yet another tank!)
As always, thanks for your patience and generosity in sharing your experience !
Art
<Noga, scope, Quinine... along with all else you're currently doing... Bob Fenner>

URL for microscopic pix of marine parasites?
Hi Guys, Can you tell me where on the web  I can get comprehensive microscope  pictures of the various parasites that invade salt water aq fish. Thanks Ian
<Wish I could... as far as I'm aware there is no such reference online. Maybe you will assemble, maintain such. Bob Fenner> <<Oh, there ARE book references of such. RMF>>