ParaDiagF

Cont.: Crypt and, God willing, the lack thereof? 12/3/08
Dear Fishmasters of the Sea... And, specifically, Lord Fenner for helping me last time (I tend to envision Bob in a loincloth, perched above a raging sea, commanding the ocean's minions with a simple wave of his trident... But, that's just me)
<Heeee! Replace the trident with a Kona Brewing Co. IPA and I'm there!>
Thank you very much for your reply. "Be chatting" is a good sign from what I've read! I will spare you the string from my last email, as it mostly contains random observations and stories from my childhood. If this is Bob, I wrote you about my Louti and Panther Groupers, Foxface and Humu Trigger... All Thrown in my 100G without quarantine...
<Ah yes... I do recall>
Thought I had Ich/Crypt... Again, I have read darn near everything pertaining to the following questions... I get it - The information is there. I also get that different people have had different successes and failures with varied procedures and approaches.
<Ah, yes>
Perhaps it's my indecisiveness and need for a straight, definitive answer, but the seemingly contradictory advice is making me cuckoo. Options are not good for me. I have a 2 month old 100G FOWLR with approximately 100-125 lbs of Liverock, 3" Sandbed (will soon add 1-2"), Wet/dry 30G sump, AquaC Remora producing half the cup of daily, semi-dark green skim... 2x96PC lights on 10hrs... Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate possibly 10ppm, PH-8.2, Spg.024, Temp at a very stable 78-86 (Heat wave last month was killing me, so I didn't bother using the heater... Error... Adding fans has kept it under 80-82... Since it's now freezing in the morning, I just set the heater to 80 even. Nowhere else to go).
<Good>
Everyone is eating well and seem to be getting along. Have had Louti(5") and Foxface(4") for a little over thirty days. Panther(4") and Humu(2") for about two weeks. I know their personal, given names are probably not necessary for diagnosis - But I sure do love watching "Guerny" screw up my tank! Guerny is short for Guernica, as he is a Picasso Trigger... (Is anyone getting my art/fish reference?)
<Mmm, yes>
I'm actually only pretending to be this annoying... I don't NAME my fish!
So, a few days ago, Foxy looked like he had two little white granules on his side. A few minutes later, they were gone. Now, I may have dismissed them as sand or air bubbles (have read WWM post from the man who misdiagnosed bubbles as Ich), were it not for what appeared to be two tiny holes in the same area. I have read that this particular fish tends to produce excessive slime coating (have seen it floating around).
<This is so>
Could this have been some sort of parasite that was easily/temporarily sloughed off?
<Could be... but might be spurious>
Shortly after, I may have hallucinated extremely small specks on Dr. Grouperson's fins, but it's so hard to tell on the translucent pectorals of this Louti. Nothing elsewhere on his body. Nothing whatsoever on Dot (aptly named Panther Grouper). And lastly, I really cannot tell with the Trigger... Twice, he had what looked like something on him, but... He spends most of his time digging and spitting out sand. He's got quite the tunnel under the rock... Same routine - swim around the back, come out the front, spit into sand mountain. (I'm half-waiting for him to come up with woodchips from the stand). In all seriousness, he does spit sand everywhere and on everything, including tankmates... Could that be sand I occasionally see on Foxy and himself?
<Yes>
Last night I turned the lights on... Everyone was asleep. I saw a white speck on the Rabbitfish and, so help me, it moved about an 1/8th of an inch (didn't fall off). Is that possible?
<Yes>
Could it be a Copepod, as they are everywhere in this tank (particularly where Foxy was sleeping)?
<Maybe>
My LFS guy told me, point-blank, "Treat in the main tank".
<Mmm... I would not>
He said if I am worried about my Hermits and Liverock with the countless, exciting hitchhikers, including Mushrooms and other Coral Polyps, then try Kick-Ich or Rid-Ich or whatever was "organic" and nonlethal to Inverts... Said it works "occasionally".
<This is an honest statement... Also kills, results in the loss of everything on more frequent occasions>
I said that independent research has been less than favorable... He said to just use CopperSafe. I referenced Hospital Tanks and Fallowing and Quarantine and FW Dips... I might as well have said that the "Internet" told me to dunk 'em in diesel fuel... Says I'm really over-thinking this.
Am I?
<Assuredly not>
I guess that's an easy mentality when, as a retailer dealing in high volume, you have two systems: FO that you can Copper... Or, Reef tanks with inverts... If there so happens to be an infested Clown or Tang you simply don't treat it... It will either live or it won't. Instead, last night, I sterilized my 10G,
<Mmm, need more room/volume than this>
pulled out the old Penguin HOT and got ready to go fishin'. After work I swung by LFS and filled my jugs with 15G of RO/DI saltwater... Said I'll take the CopperSafe! Even bought a new Heater, too (told him not to ask what I was doing). Ran out of OSH with a bunch of different size PVC pipes and elbows (am now broke)... Came in prepared for a long night... Turned on the light... Not a speck anywhere on anyone. If I had Crypt, would they not be multiplying?
<If a single/starting infestation... could be just moving into the next phase... off the fish hosts>
Really? If I truly introduced it as a result of failing to Quarantine, and it was now visible on my fishes... Where did they go?
<See Crypt's life cycle... on the Net, WWM...>
I think I have frickin' air bubbles and sand... Should I really de-aquascape my entire display and put all my fish in a... ahem... 10G tank?
<I would not... at this junction. IF your fishes are in apparent good health currently, I'd wait, be observant for now... As you state, you/no one needs "options", but really to sort through and set upon one definite path... For me, for now, given what you have related so well, I'd be patient. There is much more (currently) to be lost than gained by over-reacting. SHOULD a protozoan complaint manifest itself in the next few days... I would STILL not be so fast in moving the fishes... It may be better for you to aim/shoot for a sort of stasis here... Did I reference this last time? Here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files in the series above...>
For a minimum of 4 weeks? Or a big Rubbermaid piece of Tupperware that my Girlfriend does not at all want to look at in our one-bedroom apartment? I put a lot of work into this! Where, pray tell, are my parasites?
<Perhaps non-existent, maybe onto an off-host reproductive process>
Would you Fallow or not?
<Mmm, what was that statement/response that Dr. Frank Aubrey (SDSU) uttered years ago during a "Creation vs. Evolution" debate, when asked whether he truly believed that humans were derived from apes? "Not yet.">
And really... How long at 80-82 will it take for Crypt to cycle and die?
<Mmm, most of it in a few weeks... some maybe not for a few months...>
I have to go to Hawaii in mid-January... (Nightmare!)
<Heee!>
Should I just be happy that I now have a future Quarantine Tank?

That's simple and somewhat reassuring. Here is where I find some inconsistency in the advice: If I were to set up a Hospital Tank... Would I take nice PH/Temp/Cycled water from Display Tank to fill it?
<Initially, yes... this is generally best... Unless you have
another/parallel system that is established that is pathogen free>
Whatever Pathogens/Parasites will be transferred to Hospital, but killed fairly quickly with the Copper, right?
<Yes>
I'm guessing that I would have to do something along the lines of 40-50% water changes every other day or so?
<Maybe... need to test... usually for ammonia...>
That's fine... But from where do I get the water? Main tank?
<Mmm, no... from new water made up that is lacking parasites>
It wouldn't shock the fishes. Copper will keep on killing when I re-up for water change, right?
<That's the theory>
Oh my god... I know this is posted, but it goes a few different ways from here. And I don't have much money. Do I tell my girlfriend that I'm getting her a RO/DI unit for Xmas?
<A very thoughtful gift in my estimation>
Our love is like a Deep Sand Bead that, by the way, I need to increase slightly?
<Yes, and stir gently...>
I am going crazy. I feel like we're going to end up on a sofa with a bucket of fishes between us and the therapist. I wish I could sit back and enjoy the fishes that I assume are swimming on the other side of that wall of Diatoms... Ain't we a wishin' bunch?
<Keeps us alive. BobF>

Cloudy fins, SW fish diag. 5/30/08
Hi, I have a Longnose Butterfly that is covered in a fine "dust". It covers his fins and makes them look cloudy.
<Err... such cloudiness is often symptomatic of Amyloodinium, aka Velvet... very bad>
It also covers the front of his body and recently five or six spots turned up on each eye. Initially I thought they were air bubbles because they didn't always seem to be in the same spots and he eats really well, doesn't scratch against rocks, and is not shy. He has been developing the spots for about a month now
<Oh! Then this is something else. Velvet would have killed all your fishes w/in hours to days>
and I have hesitated to treat him for fear of killing him with the treatment when I wasn't sure he was sick.
<You are wise here... Perhaps the root cause is environmental... not pathogenic>
When the spots turned up on his eyes and didn't go away after I turned off my skimmer I decided they weren't air bubbles and he must have something. I removed him from my main tank, gave him a freshwater dip with methylene blue and put him in a quarantine. The spots are very small and I can't tell what color they are except to say they aren't white. My water quality is good (0 ammonia, 15 ppm Nitrates) and everything is consistent in my tank except sometimes the fish only get fed once a day. No other fish show signs of illness. Do you think this is a parasite? fungus?

Should I treat with copper? dips?
<Mmm, none of these>
When treating with copper should I remove my bio wheel from the quarantine tank and put it in the sump of my main tank to avoid killing off the good bacteria during treatment?
Thanks,
Brendon
<I would first try a vermifuge... See WWM re: http://wetwebmedia.com/vermifugefaqs.htm
and in series (after the above) an anti-protozoal (likely Metronidazole/Flagyl) administered through foods/feeding. Bob Fenner>

Shrimp goby pair quarantine... Actually, Disease, part. Protozoan ID, trtmt. 8/17/08
Hello to all and thank you for being able to ask questions,

it is greatly appreciated.
I am in need of some guidance and direction as to what is the best way to address my current situation. My tank came down with what I now believe was Brooklynella.
<Mmmm, not likely>
In one day I thought I lost all fish.
<Then no>
Symptoms were cloudy eyes, peeling skin and 2 dead fish clown and pseudo. I also had a yellow watchman goby pistol shrimp pair which I had assumed perished as well because I had not seen them in a while. I was going to let the tank go fallow following directions listed on your site. Then one day I put a very small amount of frozen food in the tank and out comes the goby and shrimp looking very healthy. So my question is now what do I do?
<Likely nothing>
Im thinking of dismantling the tank to catch the goby and shrimp and place them in a 10G quarantine tank.
<... for what reason/s?>
Should I catch both or just the fish? If just the fish will they still pair off later after reintroduction? Also what should I use to treat the yellow watchman goby and how often since I see no signs of disease on him?

I was planning on using a sponge from my tank and also water from the main tank into the quarantine, but would it be better to not use the water from the main tank since the disease is in the water from the main tank? I would really like to keep the goby paired up with the shrimp but since I will most likely be medicating the fish I am unclear as to what to do? If you recommend a dip and then placing in quarantine how would I know if it worked since I don't see any signs of disease on him and its been 10 days now since I lost the other 2 fish?
Thanks
Steve
Tank size is 24 gallons
water quality
ph 8.2
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate <5
specific gravity 1.025
refugium in the process of being installed
20% water changes weekly
22 lbs live rock
1/2 in sand
various zoos
1 blue xenia
<Mmm... let's start a bit toward the beginning here... W/o knowing... what the actual cause of loss was here I would not "jump" to conclusions... was this a protozoan infestation? Not definitively... NOT Brooklynellosis I assure you. I would leave all as they are presently... proceed cautiously in introducing new fish livestock (see WWM re... quarantining, assuring the initial health of new introductions). Bob Fenner>

Help! Unidentifiable Disease on my fish! System... 1/16/08
Hi There,
I need your help and fast. I have a 260 gal tank with a foxy face, Hawkfish, 2 dwarf colored beauties,
<Centropyge?>
a saddle back clown, and 1 candy stripe shrimp. My boyfriend have recently acquired this 7 year old happy tank from his father. I had been doing lots of research in reef aquariums and gladly took it off his hands. We have both a protein skimmer and the "bio ball" type filters. 2 VHO fluorescent lights and 1 actinic.... I know we could stand more lighting we're purchasing some metal halides in the upcoming month. Anyway about 4 days ago we bought our first anemone a smaller rose BTA. I've read that all fish and inverts are to be quarantined for a min of 3 weeks. I asked my LFS before the purchase how long they isolate their fish / inverts, and how long do the recommend for my new BTA. the girls said that they have already iso'ed all their specimens before being brought out on the floor. Then told me not to iso off the BTA b/c you should never do this to any invert. This was the opposite from everything that I have read....... I followed what she said and now I fear I'm paying the price. The BTA seems happy eating well moved around a bit but seems to have found Our foxy today (3 days later) seems to have a few black spots on it .....
<Paravortex?>
So I think ok it's black ich. Only on the top on the fish and on some of the fins there are larger white bumps ... at first I thought maybe this is some sort of parasite that's latched on... pretty sure it's not bacterial. He also seems to have a few scratches on both of his sides where I'm guessing that he was trying to rub these little buggers off. I google up black and white spots and foxy seems to have symptoms of both black and white ich. I don't know if that is possible
<Oh yes... is>
but it doesn't seem too unreasonable. I started to prepare my fresh water for a dip
<... but replacing the fish/es back in the infested system?>
and after the water heated up (about 2 hours or so) I came back and all the larger white lumps are gone. The smaller black dots are barely visible and now his tail fin is covered in a fine mucusy substance. He's hiding in the rocks a bit more than usual but is still eating fine not acting noticeably lethargic. I can't find anything to match these symptoms online. What the heck is this and how should I treat it? Remove the BTA to the hospital tank? Or only Foxy?
Laurel
<... all the fishes need to be removed, treated elsewhere... or a decision made to "weather" the infested system... Please, when you have time, and soon... start reading here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm
the linked files above, and where you lead yourself. Bob Fenner>

"Thing" on Firefish
I just purchased a firefish on Sunday, and yesterday, Monday, I noticed that he has something coming out of a hole behind his pectoral fin. The hole is in his "armpit" and there is not one on the other side. This thing is a yellow-white curlicue that comes out, and looks like it goes back into the hole it came out of. It is maybe 1/2 cm long. By curlicue I mean kinda like wood shaving, or piece of sawdust. He is having no problems swimming or eating. This thing doesn't seem to be bothering him at all, but I would like to know what it is and if I can do anything to make it go away. (The way it is shaped, I think it may be a piece of intestine, maybe?)
Thank you!
<Mmm, my guess is that this is an external parasite... a copepod likely (do put the terms "copepod fish parasite" in Google and look at the "images"... Can be excised with forceps likely... and careful holding while in a net... Bob Fenner>

Parasitic Problem...Or???
Hi to you all,
<Hey there! Scott F. here today!>
You all helped me out quite a bit when I first started my tank 4 years ago.
<Glad to hear that!>
The tank has been pretty good. Some wonderful successes and some sad failures, some fish jumping out and some corals just not happy, many other fish I have had for years and corals have been thriving for years.
<All part of the joy of the hobby.>
Love learning all this. But now of course, the problem. Got some new Clownfish, the others slept near the overflow and Walla.... gone. Jumpers, the little dears. So now I have a cover for the tank and two new clowns quarantined for 3
weeks, they looked happy and fabulous.
<Glad to hear about the use of quarantine!>
Put them in the display tank with a Sailfin Tang and Yellow-tailed damsel and the corals and rock and all that. Next day spots, but really small - like so small that we had to get the magnifying glass to see them.
<Hmm...potential problem...?>
Freaked out, scooped them out of the display tank and wrung my hands. Next day not a spot anywhere. Next week still no spots (my husband sort of accused me of ick phobia).
<That's a good sign>
Put them back in the display tank, all is well. Two days later and Tang has spots, but try as I might, I find it hard to say that they look like salt. They are white and then some of them are sort of dark grey. He is fine (they all seem well) and I begin reading about catching Tangs. I have to wait for the weekend to catch them when I have the ability to pump out the water in the tank and get them and put them all, and I know ALL, into the quarantine tank.
<Yep- If you suspect a parasitic illness, "fallowing" the tank is really a smart idea, as it will interrupt the life cycle of the causative protozoa...>
Only guess what? Nobody has any spots on them at all anymore. I have read about the cycle and I get it, but when ick is swimming in the water and searching for a host does it just go on one fish and leave all the others?
<Interesting though, but not too likely. The protozoa enter a phase where they will attach to a suitable substrate for a period of time before they emerge again...in potentially greater numbers.>
Do they all fall off again, at once, from the host fish and appear absent from the tank?
<Well, they will follow a definite life cycle.>
I tried to find some info on the web site with out bothering you guys but alas the weekend approaches and although all the fish look absolutely fine. I am wondering if I should give up the whole darn day to try to get the fish out of the tank or can I wait and see if the spots come back.
<Hmm...tough call. I have become very conservative over the years, and generally will move the fish when I have a good suspicion that a parasitic illness is a possibility.>
And is there anything else that could be making spots that is not Ich or Velvet or a parasite?
<Hard to say. It is possible that there could be some kind of trauma to the skin, but in all likelihood, you're looking at a possible parasitic illness here. I'd operate under that assumption.>
Are you thinking to yourselves...that nut!!!??
<Nope- I hope that you're not thinking that about ME! LOL>
I hope not....Thank you once again for being here..
<Glad to be here for you. Take a conservative approach, watch the fish carefully, and be prepared to spring into action should it become necessary. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

A " Lumpy" Griffiths Angel
Hi
<Hello>
I have a question for you, which I think I know the answer to......But I need to ask.
<Okay>
In my store, I have many large reef display tanks. One of these is a 400 Gallon, very well stocked reef. I only have a few fish in there. a small yellow tang, medium purple, a combfish, a fourline red sea wrasse, a multicolour angel, medium Black Tang, and a 3.5" Griffiths.
I love the Griffiths, and I got a few with my last shipment from Hawaii.
<Mmm, you mean "through" Hawai'i... not found here>
I chose one to keep, isolated him for 2 weeks, then put him in the tank....everything went well for a few days, but now he appears to be a bit lumpy....like he has a dozen or so small bumps on each side of him....he eats readily, and I feed Live Brine, and some Tetra marine pellets 3 times a day, but in small quantities. In fact, he seems to be first to the food.
Question....what is it?, and if I soak a few pellets for a moment in the "yellow-green" water....and almost hand feed him......will these antibiotics kill my reef in such small doses?
<Not likely>
I know you won't want to put this on your site as it might encourage a lot of people to do the same, with disastrous results.
<We post all>
My system has a 4 inch DSB, 200kgs of quality Live rock, and a heavy duty H&S skimmer, as well as a trickle filter and a little activated carbon. I use natural sea water which I UV, skim and O3 before lab testing and adding to the systems
Normally I wouldn't worry too much about the fish, as most seem to heal very quickly in this tank, but I'm sort of attached to this guy
regards
JD
<I too like this genus of Angels... What yours is exhibiting is very likely some sort of worm infestation... subdermal... nematodes, maybe acanthocephalans... Not treatable, not likely "too" debilitating, not catching. Bob Fenner>

Freshwater dip
I just freshwater dipped my flame angel after about five days of worsening cloudy-eye and fin rot... There were oval, thin, opaque things in the dip water. I thought they were scales that were knocked off at first, but do you think they could be flatworms or something?
<They could be scales but they might also be flukes. You can use Praziquantel. It works great and only stays in the water three to five days.>
My fish was scratching himself for a week or so... now in QT after the dip. If they are parasites, are they contagious?
<Yes they are very contagious.>
How to control them? Thanks guys. A second opinion is often all it takes to keep us from being ignorant...
<Good luck, MacL>

Do White "Hairs" Indicate a Parasite? 4/9/04
BACKGROUND
- Friend broke down tank and gave me a 4" blue tang - The tang has pale pits all over its head suggesting lateral line disease, though the line looks fine <natural sunlight and improved feeding will improve this>
- Tail is frayed and oddly bumpy near its base
- These symptoms have remained constant for 6 months
<hmmm... does not sound likely pathogenic for lasting this long without getting better/worse>
- Behavior completely normal for a blue tang (healthy swimming, appetite, etc)
- I have provided no treatment
- Goby and Banggai Cardinal tankmates exhibit no signs of illness
NEW SYMPTOM
- I just noticed a series of white "hairs" sticking out from his back, directly below the dorsal fin.
<odd>
- These bristles are parallel to each, angled from front to back (like hair blowing in the wind), the thickness of thread, and number about 10.
QUESTIONS
1. What's wrong with this fish?
<not sure by the text description... a clear photo would help. Else do consult a good manual like Untergasser's Handbook of Fish diseases (TFH)>
2. What should I do to help him?
<ID the symptom first before any move or treatment. Get your Quarantine tank ready if needed if its not still running>
Thanks in advance for any relevant info/advice.
- David
<I see that you are form Boston... do check out the excellent local club: The Boston Reefers. They have their own website (slips me now... do a keyword search) and they have a forum on reefcentral.com They are also hosting the national conference this year in September.. an event not to be missed! Anthony>

Moorish Idol Woes / Parasites (7/22/04)
I was hoping you could help me with a disease diagnosis and treatment. I recently purchased a Moorish Idol 3 weeks ago. He has been eating everything I give him and has been doing fine. <Ostensibly, anyway.> Until today he has developed small "dusty'" white powdered spots over his body. It does not look grainy or sandy like ich. <Ich doesn't necessarily look that coarse. Velvet tends to be powdery, perhaps this is it.> It looks like it is under his skin, nearest his gills and eyes. He is still eating normally and swimming around as normal, maybe a little faster than normal. There does not seem to be any gasping or clamped fins. <Good signs all.> He is the only tank member that looks like this. <I'd get him out of there and into a hospital tank for treatment.> He also has developed one cloudy eye. <May be bacterial infection.> It is slightly enlarged and grayish in color. <Search "Popeye" on WWM for info.> Have treated with Epsom salt but has not helped. All help is welcome. Thanks <This certainly sounds parasitic. In your shoes, I'd get him into a hospital tank for treatment. Read the parasite articles/FAQs for options. Steve Allen.>

Amyloodiniumiasis or Brooklynellosis or neither!
Hi,
 I just finished reading this month's issue of "Conscientious Aquarist" magazine. Awesome. One more reason to surf the web at work!
<>
 I have a 72 gallon tank with 6 shrimp, 1 hermit crab, 1 Banggai cardinal, 1 Ocellaris Clown and 1 Orchid Dottyback -in that pecking order! Almost everyday the Dottyback has a patch of mucous on it's surface, body or fin, that is about 1mm by 1mm. << This wouldn't worry me. >> It moves around day to day and even morning to
evening. All fish were quarantined -3 weeks for the cardinal and about 2 weeks for the other two. Nothing showed up then. The Dottyback has been in the display for over 6 weeks now and has been showing these symptoms for the past 4 or 5 weeks. << If he swims well, and eats, I say don't worry. >>
 This isn't ich, as I've dealt with ich before when it wiped out everything in my tank twice!!! Upon reading WWM, these symptoms appear to be Amyloodiniumiasis or Brooklynellosis, except for the fact that the fish is behaving fine and has been for over a month -knock on wood! Could this just be damage from scraping against rocks and decor -he is a pretty jittery fish! << Usually fish will scrape and rub against rocks to rub things off of them. >>
Tank had been set up for 11 months now. The shrimp have been there since day one, crab since December, cardinal since April, clown since mid-may and the dotty back since 5/28. No additions since then.
Salinity -1.025
Nitrates -don't register on test kits...
Ph -8.0 -slowly increasing it to 8.2 with Seachem Marine Buffer
Temp -78.8F just before lights out to 78.1F early morning -consistent everyday.
20% water change 3 times a month.
Should I be concerned? Every time I move a fish to the hospital tank for
treatment I end up killing it, so that's my last option. << Well here is what I would do. I would buy a tank raised cleaner goby, and maybe a cleaner shrimp. If it is a parasite problem they can really help. I wouldn't go with the hospital tank, unless you have to. As long as the fish is out swimming and eating, I wouldn't be too worried. >>
Thank You!
Narayan
<< Blundell >>

Possible Parasitic Problem?
Hi There,
<Hey! Scott F. here today!>
I recently purchased a pair of clowns (well two days ago actually) the one has adapted really well and is diving around the place however the other looks very lethargic and is breathing heavily. Tests all show OK.

I appreciate that other posts ask similar questions however there is no slime on the fish nor white spots. He hangs in his hosting coral all day and hasn't fed on two occasion (but nor has the other clown.) Is this really bad?
<Well, it's hard to be sure. Sometimes, a fish can have Amyloodinium ( a virulent parasitic disease) without the other obvious external signs; just lethargy and difficulty in breathing. I'd keep a careful eye on this fish, and be prepared to take aggressive action if it becomes necessary. If you've eliminated the possibility of environmental problems, focus on the possibility of parasitic illness. Use the resources that we have here on WWM on parasitic diseases, and feel free to ask questions again if we are able to help you out. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Thanks in advance.
Chris
I have a 40 gallon Chromis tank with an AquaMedic 2000 P/S, 2 powerheads.
Tank is 10 weeks old; I have three shrimps, 10 snails, 10 hermit crabs, 1 lobster, and 35 lbs of live rock. The only fish are the two clowns. Calcium 460, KH 8.3, nitrite, nitrate & ammonia 0, salinity 1.026 temp 26.5 (in the day).

Bummed-Out By His Blenny!
Hi
<Hello there! Scott F. with you today!>
Great site.
<Glad that you enjoy it! We're thrilled to bring it to you each day!>
I have a 90 gallon reef with 90 lbs of LR. I have had a lawnmower blenny in the tank for approximately 9 months. All parameter on the tank are great a/n/n all 0. Everything in the tank is thriving except my blenny. He eats all day mostly micro algae and will take a few bites a day of what I throw in for the rest of the fish. By the end of the day is stomach is nice and full. But come morning its completely empty. I mean empty, sunken in. He seems to be slowly deteriorating away??
<Not good...>
I don't understand why?? Is there some type of a bacterial infection or something that could be causing this??
<It is possible that an internal parasite of some sort is at work here>
Is this an indication of cyanide??
<Not in my opinion...If it were cyanide, the fish would generally expire shortly after eating its first few meals>
Is cyanide collection commonly used on these??
<Not to my knowledge>
He grazes all day on the micro algae so I'm pretty sure, theoretically he is getting plenty of food. And, like I said by the end of the day he looks slightly plump.
<At least he is eating...A good thing!>
This is my favorite fish by far, and I don't want to lose him............. Thank you for any help or suggestions. Matt
<Well, Matt- I'm going to operate on the assumption (gulp) that we are looking at some form of internal parasite here. There are a number of over-the-counter fish meds to address this. Sometimes, the cure is more damaging than the illness, however. I'd search on some of the e-tailers for a medicated antiparasitic food, and hope for the best. Otherwise, maintain excellent water conditions and keep on top of things in his tank. With a little TLC, he can pull through just fine. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Are there parasites that you can see?
<Oh yes... some crustacean parasites of fishes and other aquatic animals are quite large for example... some inches long>
After close examination on my aquarium I notices these extremely small moving creatures in the water, some walking on the glass. Under a magnifying glass they almost look like shrimp. Could these be harmful or might they just be something that the fish stirred up in the sand?
<Likely nothing to worry about. Please read here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pericaridanfaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>

Mystery Parasite
I've been reading over all the parasite and disease FAQs on your wonderful site and others. I am still confused on what my little domino might have had. Two days ago I noticed two large white spots (1 was long and thin and the other was larger than his actual dot and protruded a little) on my domino damsel. I gave him a fresh water dip and that seemed to revive him a little but things just got worse. He stopped eating and moving around like normal. I couldn't get him out of the tank either because he would move enough to hide from me. I found him dead this morning with most of his coloring wrong. I am not sure which parasite this is. I don't think it is ich because there were only two large dots. I am leaning towards velvet because the spots were large.
<Well, the fact that he displayed some raised areas on his body, and did not mention that the fish displayed rapid breathing (classic signs of Marine Velvet) and other signs of distress, I think that it may be some sort of parasitic organism (trematode, etc.). Velvet (Amyloodinium) also manifests itself as a very fine "dusting" of spots (much smaller than you see in ich), and kills rather quickly. Curious enough- yours died rather quickly...>
I plan on removing the rest of the rockwork out.. moving the inhabitants into the qt and letting the tank sit for a month. Should I wait till I see symptoms on my other damsels before I use copper?
<Whenever you're dealing with a potential parasitic infection (especially if you even suspect Amyloodinium), removing the fish and letting the tank run fallow is a conservative, prudent move on your part. Better safe than sorry. I would hold off on administering copper or other medications to the fish unless symptoms manifest themselves. And, of course- NEVER treat the display with medication. I think that you are on he right track here!>
Thanks so much for your great site. Alex Miller
<Really glad that you enjoy it! Sounds like you're learning a lot from this experience- keep up the good work! Regards, Scott F>

Finding The Right Cure
Hi guys,
<Scott F. your guy tonight!>
I have read most everything you have on Gill Flukes. I still need some help:-)
<That's why we're here!>
My Percula had started breathing rapidly and scraping his gills along the intake tube. The hippo tang is just a baby and he too has been breathing rapidly and scratching as are the Firefish and neon goby. :-(
<Not a good sign...Could be flukes...could even be Amyloodinium. Verify carefully!>
I have a 30 gallon tank, which has now become the QT tank.
<Excellent to have>
I tested the water and then had LFS test against my test (water great). I initially treated with copper thinking it was ick then I noticed the breathing.
<Well, copper may not be that effective against flukes...there are many different views on that one...>
So I call my LFS and they sold me Fluke Tabs and told me to ½ the dose as this stuff is very strong.
<Haven't used it personally- but have heard the same!>
I still have sand and a few coral skeleton decorative pieces from before I was planning to move everyone to my new 55 gallon reef.
Nobody has made it to the 55 as they broke out with this before moving over.
<Well, good that you were able to contain it>
I come home today treat with the first round of Fluke Tabs around 11:30 AM. I get back from doing “stuff” to find my clown still at the top (BTW, I have put a huge airstone, an air tube and kept the filter on the back with no carbon to insure lots of oxygen) and my hippo still breathing rapidly, his top fins going a brownish color and he seems to be really struggling. These (Percula and Hippo) two are my most worry as they are still exhibiting all symptoms.
<This really is starting to sound like Amyloodinium...>
1. Am I expecting improvement too quickly?
<Depending on what you're dealing with, it could take up to a week to 10 days to see improvement...Once you've positively ID'd the disease or parasite, stay the course with the treatment>
2. Is the sand absorbing the meds making them ineffective?
<Quite possibly...I always recommend treatment in a tank without substrate, so that medication doesn't bind with the substrate, reducing its effectiveness>
3. What is the hippo’s browning of the top fins about?
<Hard to say...could be as a result of the illness, or even damage caused by copper>
4. My water temp is around 80 degrees because I have read that when
treating for sickness keep tank warmer???
<The thought is that higher temperatures speed up the life cycle of parasites...>
5. How long do I treat them ? The Fluke Tab box says two treatments
should do it, then do a 50% wc after three days of no symptoms?
<Follow manufacturer's instructions to the letter, with any medication....>
6. Should I combine with freshwater dip or something? I already have copper and quick cure in the tank along with Fluke Tabs. LFS said this drug cocktail was safe.
<I would tend to disagree...I don't like to mix different medications....Maybe the difficulty that the fish are experiencing is a result of this mixture of meds, not disease symptoms, as I originally surmised...Lots of possibilities>
If you can answer any or all these inquiries, I would be very grateful. Thanks. Christy Evans
<Well, Christy, my thinking is to very carefully ascertain what it is that you're dealing with, then reduce your medication to the one medication best suited for that condition. Freshwater dips may be preferable to a medication "cocktail"....Not a cure all, but a good supplement. Hang in there...stay the course. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Finding The Right Cure...And The Right Disease!
Hi Scott,
<Hey there again!>
I think your diagnosis was more accurate when you said that it sounded like Amyloodinium than flukes.

We lost three fish through what I believe was a misdiagnosis and medication toxicity. I read up on Amyloodinium and it said that it lives in the water more so than the fish. SO we have broken down our 30 gal HT, washed it and are currently reconstructing it.
<Good move on your part>
We have fresh water dipped (ten min each) all the survivors. Four fish total: 1 DSB Butterfly, two Firefish (boy, their sturdy), and a neon Goby, and placed them into the new 55 gallon reef that was ready before this broke out.

Should I find that I have another outbreak of this what is the best
method of treatment (fish and tank). Now that we have a reef set-up the stakes are higher when it comes to outbreaks. :)
<The best method, IMO, is to remove all fishes (even the seemingly healthy ones) and place them in a hospital tank for treatment with a commercial copper sulphate product, per manufacturer's instructions. Meanwhile, the main tank will remain "fallow", without fishes, for about a month...This will help dramatically reduce the parasite population in the display tank, and you won't need to use any medications in the display...>
We have also decided to wait two weeks or so before replacing the ones we lost to insure the others are thriving and eating and under no stress.
<Don't forget a full 3-4 week quarantine on every new fish...it's just gotta be a mandatory part of your new fish "protocol"!>
Thoughts??? Thanks Again Christy Evans
<I think that you've got the basic idea...just remember to diagnose very carefully before medicating in the future, treat in a separate tank, and quarantine all new arrivals...That's the best that you can do! Keep learning and growing in the hobby! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>
David W. Evans

One Fish, Two Fish...Or, Is That-"Two Fishes"?
(Obscure Trivia For Fish Nerds)
Hi Scott, thanks for explanations! You guys are awesome!
<as always- it's so much fun to be of assistance!>
Some follow-ups down below:
I'm still not sure if my fish have Ich or Velvet... is there a simple way to distinguish the two? What about the 'looks' of it? Both have white dots? Same color? Size?
Number?
<Amyloodinium (Velvet) looks like a fine "dusting" of whitish dots, as opposed to ich, which displays salt-grain sized dots...Both appear whitish to clear in color>
As far as dosages of copper based medications (CopperSafe and Cupramine) are concerned-that's what puzzles me... how can one be 1.5 -2.0ppm while the other same at0.5 ? Aren't they both chelated?
<Well, Coppersafe is chelated, and Cupramine is not...They are formulated at different concentrations...>
Which one do you like better and is faster acting: CopperSafe of Cupramine (despite the price difference)?
<I've used both successfully. I find myself using CopperSafe more often...Both are excellent products, IMO>
Would you adjust the temperature or drop the salinity along with the copper treatment?
<I suppose that you could raise the temperature a bit- maybe to about 82 degrees F- as this might help speed up the life cycle of the parasites a bit, but I'd keep oxygen levels high, with good aeration. I would not manipulate the specific gravity, however- too much added stress, IMO>
Finally, my CopperSafe came with no booklet... when I dose with 5ml/4gallons,what do I get: 1.5ppm? 2ppm? Any idea?
<Well, CopperSafe administered at the recommended dose of one teaspoon to 4 gallons will yield a concentration of 1.5ppm-2.0ppm>
Water Changes: I'm not planning on any water changes during that time :-) Should I ?
<I highly recommend regular water changes- even in a treatment tank...Fish (even sick ones) still give off metabolic waste, which must be dealt with. High water quality is super important, particularly when you have fishes that may have damaged gills, such as those infected with Amyloodinium or ich>
I included a cycled filter for biofiltration in the bare bottom tank and I hope that neither CopperSafe or Cupramine will affect the bio-filtration as the products claim. BTW, some people say that copper will wipe out the bio filtration, yet both of the manufacturers state that they are bio-filtration safe... puzzling...
<Well, speaking from personal experience- I can honestly state that I've never had a problem with these products>
Out of curiosity.. for instance, if you have both Ich and Clownfish
disease... I'm looking into it. I suppose that formaldehyde (reducing agent?) could reduce the chelated copper to its ionic form?
<Hmm...I don't know the chemical reactions that would take place for this to occur...and frankly- who cares? (LOL!). Just don't mix these medications together...Use one or the other!>
BTW, is Clownfish disease only affecting clownfish or other fish as well...
<"Clownfish Disease" (Brooklynella), is caused by a protozoan. It's usually associated with (imported) clownfish, but can occur in other fishes, as well>
And final, most puzzling question... grammatically correct, plural from fish, is it 'fish' or 'fishes' ? So far I have 50/50 responses :-)
<Well, I researched this for you...here's the official "deal" on this issue: "Fish" can mean a single individual, and can also describe a group of individuals of the same species. When you are talking about a number of individuals belonging to more than one species, the correct term is "fishes". Example: "Dude, those Centropyge hotumatua are expensive fish!"...or, "The coolest fishes are pygmy angels"... Alright- enough of this grammar crap- my head is gonna explode here!>
Cheers, Luke
<Yep- time for a drink, here! Bottoms up- Scott F>

- Random Spots -
<Good morning, JasonC here...>
Dear WWM Crew, am in need of your advice again. I have a 240 gallon with about 250 lbs. live rock, currently holds a 9" Harlequin Tusk and 11" Golden Puffer. These fish appear to be in extreme health, brilliant colors, they eat extremely well, clear eyes, normal respiration. I am concerned because they occasionally show small white spots on their pectoral and tail fins, the spots come and go, the spots do not bother the fish, their is no scratching or darting. <This isn't really abnormal and I have made this same observation myself. What the spots are specifically is hard to be certain - quite likely a protozoan similar to ich but not ich. In any case, is mostly harmless - fish in good health show these spots from time to time, but never seem affected by them or become overwhelmed. If you didn't quarantine and/or dip these fish before you put them in your tank, then they are the most likely source, although it could have also ridden in on the live rock.> Before these fish were added to the tank, the tank with the live rock was empty for six weeks to insure optimum health of the tank before adding my expensive prized animals. I would appreciate anything you have to offer as I am concerned about adding any other fish to this tank. I have a 12" Koran Angel in QT currently, and am a little nervous about adding this beautiful fish. <Well, good plan to have the quarantine going... I think as long as the angel is doing well, and not a bundle of stress it will acclimate well to the new tank. You may observe the same spots, but I doubt they will come to anything serious. Do keep a watchful eye on things.> Sincerely appreciate your time and your help. Thank You, Jen Marshall
<Cheers, J -- >

Striking Back At Disease!
I have one butterfly left who is laying upside down on the bottom breathing heaving. Yesterday the smaller of the two had cloudy eyes and I found dead this morning. The bigger one had a little bit of cloudiness but now doesn't look good. I have been fighting Ick for about a week and a half.
<Rapid breathing and the cloudy appearance seem to be signs of Amyloodinium, a far more virulent and fast-moving disease than ich. Hard to be 1005 certain from here-but may be the culprit. Check the FAQs on this disease on the wetwebmedia.com site to confirm>
I also have a clown tang and a flame angel cleaner wrasse and shrimp. Do you think this is the Ich that is getting them or something else?
<As above- I think it might be Amyloodinium...>
Is there something I can do to save this guy. Should I move him to quarantine and medicate with anything.
<Definitely should be moved to a hospital tank immediately and treated with a copper sulphate preparation, per manufacturer's instructions. Fortunately (bad term, I know), both Cryptocaryon (marine ich) and Amyloodinium can be treated with copper sulphate. I really think that you should move all of the fishes from this aquarium into the hospital tank for observation and/or treatment as needed. Whatever disease it is- it's in your main system, and radical steps must be taken to eliminate it. I'd let the tank run without fishes for at least a month, which will substantially reduce the parasite population (it will likely "crash" for lack of fish hosts). Perform regular tank maintenance (i.e.; water changes, etc) during this time. After the "fallow" period, you can re-introduce your healthy fish back into their tank. Although the parasite population cannot be 100% eliminated, you'll substantially reduce the population to a level that healthy fishes should be able to resist>
I have left them in there tank because they all had the disease
and was trying to use kick ick to fix the and doesn't seem like it has done anything.
<Yep- I don't really have much nice to say about that stuff. Treating the main aquarium is never a good idea, IMO. Just take decisive action, observe your fishes closely-monitor the copper level in the treatment tank with a reliable test kit, and stay on top of things...With patience, you'll beat this disease! Hang in there!>
Thanks for your help. Thanks, Ian Roff
<Good luck, Ian. Let's hope that things turn out okay! Regards, Scott F>

I have a powder brown tang which has picked up a quarter of an inch long light brown crustacean
on its anal fin. The bug looks kind of like a terrestrial rolly poly or pill bug. Also this thing seems to be pinching the fin. I already have a cleaner wrasse and shrimp. Do you know what this thing is and if and how I should get rid of it?
I bought your book this weekend and there the bug was right on page 148.
Also I have a white faced tang and I now feel pretty bad about buying that cleaner wrasse. Anyway the copepod disappeared after about 8 hours so I assume the cleaners got it.
I am glad I bought your book. It answered a lot of questions and gave me a lot of ideas. Thanks for your time and Ill investigate further before submitting a question.
Everett West
>>
Yes, this is a parasitic isopod... an aquatic type of rolly poly... and it is best to remove it by catching the fish and prising it off with a stout tweezers... Get ready and at the same time, daub a little mercurochrome or Merthiolate on the remaining sore with a "q-tip"...
Bob Fenner

Disease/Parasite?
Hi Bob,
I was hoping you could diagnose a disease or parasite. I have 2 large 300 Gallon Tanks and I recently purchased a Hawaiian NASO tank for one of them. He is roughly 6 inches in length and currently living in a 20 Gallon Quarantine Tank. Upon entry into a Quarantine tank, I gave him a 10 minute freshwater, Methylene Blue bath. 2 days later I noticed 5 small pimples about 1mm in diameter located from his head, down to the base of his tail, along the top part of the body. In the next 2 days, the pimple on his head
seemed to open up and a small white protrusion appeared to be coming out of it. Additionally, the other 4 pimples seemed to be getting bigger and heading towards the same direction. At this time, I noticed the fish was darting around the tank so I took him out for a freshwater formaldehyde bath. Since then, he's been acting much calmer. The protrusion from the head disappeared right after bath, leaving a small hole so I'm assuming that this is some type of parasitic problem.
<Mmm, maybe a parasite... if so, the most likely "super group" involved is a type of worm... likely "not catching" to your other livestock... would place this specimen into one of your large tanks, just going through another pH adjusted aerated freshwater dip en route>
I can't figure out exactly what he has from the various FAQs from your WetWebMedia (a great site indeed!), so I was wondering if you had any ideas on cause and treatment of this fish's
problem.
<No treatment advised>
Should I use copper? Or since these appear to be internal, would copper be effective?
<Not effective, you are correct, on internal complaints>
Also, aside from this problem, he appears healthy, so do you believe him to be a threat to the rest of my stock in the display tanks?
<No, not a threat>
The water quality in the main tanks is far more stable and there is a cleaner shrimp to possibly assist in helping the fishes immune system get a hold of the problem.
<Yes, a good idea.>
Thanks in advance for your advise!
Jeff
<Be chatting. Bob Fenner>

Possible parasitic problem
Hi Bob.
I have recently had some issues with my tank. I have lost 2 Gramma loreto's in the past year. The last one got some sort of parasitic infection (dashing against rocks and obvious white spots; looked a lot like Ich) and finally got to the point where I had to put him down. I gave him 2 or 3 freshwater dips, and it appeared as though the spots went away, but they came back very soon thereafter. I did NOT quarantine him (not quite set up for that at this point; and to make matters worse, I'll be going on a 2 week hiatus in another 2 weeks - not sure if I have enough time to treat my current fish and get him back in the main tank before we leave (getting someone to fish-sit is one thing (HARD), but having them attend to the needs of 2 tanks will be next to (if not) impossible for us).
<Hmm, the Royal Grammas the last couple of years have not "come in" in any good condition, 'excepting the ones from Brazil...>
Anyway, I picked up another one yesterday, dipped him and he seemed to acclimate to the tank rather well. Today, however, he is dashing on the rocks, just as the other did.
<Not a good sign... have heard various theories on the species low acclimation, survival rates... poor decompression, use of Quinaldine (real anesthetic, but still enhanced mortality)...>
I'm not sure what to think - all my other fish look GREAT. Why would this disease pick on the grammas?
<Don't think this is a parasitic or infectious disease... but some subsequent disorder from collection, handling stress...>
Anyway, if you have a down-and-dirty suggestion (given the time problem) I'd really appreciate hearing it.
I am prepared to quarantine him in a 10 gallon tank w/ an aqua clear mini and heater if need be.
<Please take a read through the marine index pieces on Acclimation, Quarantine, Dips/Baths... stored on our site: Home Page ... may be some input there of use, at least consolation.>
Please advise. As always, your feedback is appreciated.
Oh, while we're at it, what do you think about those trace mineral blocks? Even with 20% water changes every month, my levels get low (calcium, KH).
<They're definitely better than nothing... and way often less toxic than the Kalkwasser route so many folks fall into... I have used them, and we make our own sorts of "delivery mechanisms" out of similar materials for our use (a small, non-commercial coral farm here>
TIA, Bruce
>>
<Be chatting my friend, Bob Fenner>

Re: Possible parasitic problem
Bob,
Went to the web site, didn't see much on acclimation that applied (Methylene blue in high concentrations (a squirt versus a few drops) has been my weapon of choice...).
<Mine too... and a worry/bother that the materials aren't more intuitively accessible.>
The Gramma definitely has external parasites of some sort (spots on the forehead, as did my last fish). He is still dashing and I am wondering if a dip/copper treatment would be in order.
<Would hold off, lest you can really determine that this is a parasitic problem... the/a treatment might well be worse than the current problem.>
The last Gramma I had was in my tank for about 6 months before he developed these symptoms. It was not immediate so I don't think your hypothesis about stocking stresses would apply.
<Sounds more like an "environmental disease..." would look to your supplementation, foods/feeding/nutrition practices.... and try the default (for me) practice of vigorous live rock culture... maybe even some starting material from the tropical west Atlantic...>
This is really starting to bum me out...
Your thoughts? Maybe some parasite that hangs out in the rocks? (I'm reaching here...)
????
Bruce >>
<Don't reach, unless it's for a microscope and some help locally by someone who knows more/different about such matters... Do you have exposure to such?
Bob Fenner>

Re: Possible parasitic problem
The Gramma definitely has external parasites of some sort (spots on the forehead, as did my last fish). He is still dashing and I am wondering if a dip/copper treatment would be in order.
<Would hold off, lest you can really determine that this is a parasitic problem... the/a treatment might well be worse than the current problem.>
The last Gramma I had was in my tank for about 6 months before he developed these symptoms. It was not immediate so I don't think your hypothesis about stocking stresses would apply.
<Sounds more like an "environmental disease..." would look to your supplementation, foods/feeding/nutrition practices....
I have recently began using Combi-San (about the same time this all started too, maybe?) and Selcon. I've cut back on them both because of algae problems (the long green stringy stuff), although I DO still use them. Also Phytoplankton (Kent) for the inverts. Cut back on that, too (again, algae).
Food is NORMALLY OSI marine flakes. Sometimes brine, rinsed and soaked in fresh water for at least 5-10 minutes. This 2-3 times per month (I find my star corals need to be fed with target feedings of brine...). Occasionally frozen foods (formula one).
I figure I have at LEAST 100 lbs of rock in my 85. I also have (BTW) a sump with 24X7 lighting with some Caulerpa (no room in the cabinet/power strips for a timer... Still working on it).
PH is about 8.3, haven't checked the salinity in a while, but last I checked it was 1.024. Hard to keep constant with all the evaporation brought on by my cooling methods.... Calcium/others are lower than I would like, but still (what I would believe to be, at least) acceptable.
Not really any that I can trust farther than I could throw them, no.
And now?... I think I'm gonna make an effort to prepare the quarantine tank tonight, maybe catch him tomorrow night and isolate him so I can keep a better eye on him.
Any other thoughts?
And, oh, thanks for the prompt replies. Very nice when time is an issue... Bruce
>>
<If you can catch the specimen, would take care to provide shelter (even pvc parts) in quarantine... and look for Grammas out of Brazil for now...
Bob Fenner>

Re: Possible parasitic problem
I will go with the quarantine route, hopefully he will be in the tank tomorrow night.
So you think I should try some treatment method for him? It sounds as if you really aren't too fond of copper, so how would you suggest I proceed?
Thanks. >>
<Am actually a HUGE fan of copper... pls just take a look at the med. parts of our site... but Grammas, esp. ones in trouble already are easily pushed over the edge with stock Cu++ treatments... would do a smear prep. and look under a scope ahead of any dosing.... in the meanwhile utilize environmental manipulation (lowered spg., elevated temp.) to do about as much good as can be done.
Bob Fenner>

Re: Possible parasitic problem
Call it denial, but this evening the lesions are almost invisible. I suspect that they were trauma from being nipped by the other fish.
<Ah, as I suspect/ed... not really an infectious or parasitic disease, but something environmental...>
I had understood that CopperSafe was CuSO4 and required an ionic (free) Cu test kit.
<Hmm, perhaps my memory is even faultier than I remember (!), but isn't copper sulfate in CopperSafe a chelated product? Is this the Aq. Systems product? Is it just pentahydrate and citric acid?>
The level of 0.15 was the level at which my previous fish died...so I am pretty skittish about the accuracy of the test kit.
<Don't blame you.>
I have a microscope and slides (I am a Family Practice physician). I'm not quite sure what the procedure would be. Do I net the fish and do a skin scraping with the edge of the slide? If so, would you expect to capture the parasite? For the future, are there any good references for fish microbiology?
<Yes, and yes. Edward J. Noga, Fish Disease, Diagnosis and Treatment. 1996. Mosby, the world.>
I would risk moving them if you think that this is water condition caused.
But I would hate to introduce a lethal infection into the tank. There are other fish there, I just meant that the water quality was sufficient to support the invertebrates.
thanks
>>
<It is indeed a toss up... and you can get a fuller grasp of what is being "in the balance" of consideration in my "Three Factors... " piece stored on our site: Home Page though I suspect such a detailing of initial states of health, suitability of the env., and presence/pathogenicity of disease causing org.s will be "old hat" to you.
Bob Fenner>

PARASITE?
Robert, I was told you could help me in trying to diagnosis what type of parasite my fish has. I have a clown trigger that has a brown line that goes from his body (near his top fin) and extends through the top fin. The unusual thing is that there is a brown or tan ball like thing at the end of it. I don't see any specific parasite that I can identify. Just looks like something is running up his top fin with a ball on the end. Do you what parasite/what that might be? Also about 2 weeks ago when I first noticed the thing on his fin, he also had a cloudy eye. The cloudy eye has cleared up, but still has the thing on his fin. He also seems a little sluggish and doesn't maneuver in the tank as good. Something he seems to bump into the coral. He is eating good, and the first two days of his cloudy eye he spent most of the time hiding.
Thank-you,
Rick
<Actually, along with the collateral damage you mention, this sounds more like an "environmental disease", specifically a trauma, rather than a biological/parasitic problem... Knowing how tough this species is (almost always), I would simply try to keep the system optimized and the specimen feeding... Though this could (unlikely) prove to be some sort of crustacean or worm type parasite, you can easily address this down the line... i.e. it should not become overly deleterious as long as the host (your trigger) stays in good shape... Do take a closer look at your system and water chemistry, husbandry protocols... something slipped if this fish had a cloudy eye... maybe just a "bump in the dark", maybe something more insidious.
Bob Fenner>

Ich or Something like it?
Bob,
This is kind of long. I am so sorry to bother you.
<Not a bother. Take your time>
I have been reading your site and can't find a problem that is similar to ours. We have a healthy (for the most part or else this email wouldn't be necessary) 75 gallon tank. In our tank we have had a dog-faced puffer for a month now.
From day one he has had little white spots on his fins and then they clear up and then the spots look like they are gone and then he has on his body sort of like what a wart would look like on a human in a clump together.
<Might actually be viral, viral mediated as well.>
Sometimes the white spots are on his eyes and he will close the eye or I will see him trying to scratch himself on the sand or live rock. We have done the RO dips and some days he looks great and some days he just looks terrible! No filmy look to him at all. My heart feels for him. He still eats GOOD, and gets around. Some days he rest a little more than others.
But for the most part, our little guy gets around. He also sleeps in the very same cubby hole every time he rests. Do we need to vacuum out his little nest he has?
<No>
What is this exactly (these little clumps that look like warts on the body and the white spots on the fins)?
<Likely either some sort of protozoan or fluke (trematode) infestation>
We have other fish in the tank (lionfish, Huma Huma, wrasse, and eel) none of them appear to have anything. Occasionally the trigger gets white spots on its fins, but is not bothered by it and it goes away the next day. Nothing spreads. We have had this tank set up and complete for five months. Please help. We bought a UV Sterilizer and it should be here in the next couple of days.
What do you think about that? Sorry this has been so long.
<The UV will help indirectly... and, see below>
Thank you for your help. Lord knows we need it!
Angie
<I would try "boosting" this animals immune system by adding a liquid vitamin and iodide preparation to its food (ten, fifteen minutes ahead of feeding), AND add the same prep. directly to the water once a week, AND sneak in either bits of garlic or one of the prep.s into its foods as well... AND lower the specific gravity of this system down to about 1.017 for a month. All of this should conspire to "tip the scales of health/resistance" in your Puffer (and other fishes) favor. Bob Fenner>

Ick? Parasites? No idea...
Hi Bob---
<Howdy>
I have a 55 gallon saltwater aquarium with a clown trigger (immature), Heniochus, flame fish, green wrasse, and four damsels (plus a starfish and sea urchin). Everyone peacefully coexists
<For now...>
, but in the last three days I've noticed very small white spots on both the trigger and the Heniochus. I've seen no scratching, no change in swimming or eating habits, no signs of distress from either. I did a very brief freshwater bath for the trigger (maybe 10-15 seconds...it showed signs of distress almost immediately) which seemed to help a bit, but am concerned since there is still some sign of the spots (they seem to come and go). The spots are probably smaller than a very sharp pencil point and are not significantly raised.
<Maybe ich, velvet... perhaps nothing but "stress">
I am running two outside filters as well as an undergravel filter, keep a UV sterilizer running constantly, and occasionally use a protein skimmer. I do regular water changes, and keep a close check on nitrates, etc.
Am I better off quarantining the trigger and the Heniochus and treating with copper meds, or am I better off purchasing a cleaner shrimp or two and waiting to see signs of scratching or obvious distress from the affected fish?
<The shrimp would likely get eaten. I might try a Gobiosoma Goby: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnrfaqs.htm>
This is the first real problem
I've encountered since starting my tank about 8 months ago, and would very much appreciate your input.
Thank you in advance for your help, and thank you for a wonderful and informative website.
<Thank you my friend. Do keep an eye on your livestock, consider beginning environmental manipulation if the cleaner goby doesn't stop the recurring spots. Bob Fenner>
All good wishes,
Daryl Klopp

Possible ich break out?
Hey Bob,
Always enjoy reading your website. Got a question for you, I noticed today that there was a small white spot on the dorsal fin of one of my false perculas. It looked almost like a tiny piece of bread crumb, there was a also a similar spot on his right gill side. These spots are fairly tiny, maybe the size of a pencil point or so, but should I immediately remove the fish? Or give him a few days to see if he gets worse.
<Hmm, need more info. to give a more substantive response... How long have you had this specimen, what else is in with it, do you have any purposeful cleaner organisms?>
He has exhibited no signs of stress and is swimming well, eating... I have for perculas, two fire gobies, a striped damsel, and a cleaner shrimp in the tank (55 gallons).
<Ah, here we go.>
I have two big powerheads and a prism protein skimmer rated for a 90 gallon tank.
All of the other fish seem fine. The only thing I can think of is we had bit a cold snap out here and the temperature dropped about 4 degrees. Is this enough to cause an infection or Ich? Water quality looks good, but I have yet to test PH.
<Maybe. I would leave this fish for now... maybe start the environmental changes listed here that others have tried: http://wetwebmedia.com/marparasitcurefaqs.htm
If any of this is unclear, incomplete, please do write back. Bob Fenner>

Amazon Honor System