Sick porcupine puffer – 07/14/08
Hi guys, thanks for the info, our porcupine puffer died last night.
<Sorry to hear that.>
I’m sure it was the marine velvet. We will miss her. We now have to treat the
dragon wrasse. Do you guys recommend using copper?
<Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm ,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/velvetfaqs.htm and
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/copperfa.htm . A search for “copper” within these
pages will return a lot of useful information. Use an adequate (chelated vs.
ionic copper) test kit to keep the copper at a reasonable level (depends on
product). Good luck, Marco.
Powder Blue "pimples" 7/3/08
Hi and happy 4th of July to everyone at WWB.
<?>
I'm writing in regards to a problem I have with Peanut, my Powder Blue Tang. I
bought him a little over a month ago and immediately put him in a 40gal QT. I
observed him for a period of 3 weeks and I didn't notice any problems, no
parasites, no signs of disease, eating frozen food and the dry algae sheets. The
fish is about 4 to 5 inches in length. Then I thought everything was great and
put Peanut in my 150gal FOWLR. He acclimated very well and none of my other fish
bothered him. If anything he bothered my Foxface at first, but then they became
friends. A week later however, I noticed something very odd. He had what looked
like pin sized pimples all over his body. They were not white like ich and it
looked like they were under the skin. He didn't seem bothered, still very active
and eating like a pig. I waited hoping these "pimples" would go away but they
didn't so now Peanut is back in the QT, except I have no idea what is wrong or
how to medicate for this problem. If these pin sized pimples were white, I'd say
ich, although none of my other fish have it and the tank has been ich free for 6
months. Still, anything is possible. Any idea what these are? They're only on
the body, nothing showing up on any of the fins.
My tank parameters:
Ammonia and Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20
pH: 8.3
Density: 1.025
Other tank mates: 5" Foxface, 4" Picasso Trigger, 4" Niger Trigger, 4" Yellow
Canary Wrasse, 2" Juvi Queen Angel. Again, there was no aggression at all. The
Niger is the most aggressive in the tank but it never bothered the tang.
Thanks,
Peter
<Mmm, likely sporozoans... not easily treated... Could be encysted worms...
these might be treated with a vermifuge. Bob Fenner>
Ich and inverts? 6/17/08
Morning Crew :D
<Hello>
This may sound like a strange question, but is it possible to introduce Ich (or
any other parasite/disease) into a reef tank on invertebrates such as clams,
shrimp or corals?
<Oh yes.>
Knowing how susceptible these are to copper I'm assuming a QT would be used
here, in which case what would the procedure be, i.e. would the usual 4-5 week
quarantine period be enough or too much?
<Would be just about right, as long as you do not QT it with fish of course.>
What signs would you need to look for?
<Nothing you can see really, just time for the potential parasites to complete a
lifecycle without fish.>
Many thanks again for all your help and for such a great resource,
Carolyn
<Welcome>
<Chris>
A bit of advice please... SW fish protozoan
dis. 6/4/08
Hi Guys,
<Ashok>
I am Ashok from Chennai, India. I have been a fresh water aquarist for the past
20 years and had success in commercially breeding cichlids and other varieties
in a small scale.
I got fascinated about reef aquariums after having a chance to see a couple of
really good maintained ones during my visit to Kansas. A few friends recommended
your site
To get my first FOWLR tank started 4 months ago. I found excellent advice and
thanks a lot for that. I need some advice from you guys as the reef keeping
hobby is at a very early
Stage in this country. Further Soft and Hard Corals are totally banned
<A shame... many beautiful organisms off your coast... not threatened by careful
collection>
leaving me with a choice of a FOWLR tank.
<I see>
My tank is around 4 months now. It’s a 300 gallon display with a 300 gallon
sump, 200 Kg of LR, Aqua Medic Needle wheel skimmer, a 20 Watt UV with 5000L/Hr
return pump,
I have a DSB (5 inches of aragonite sand) and a wet dry system in the sump,
carbon for chemical filtration.
I also have a Chiller (Its really hot here during summers) and the following are
the parameters
Tank cycled for 3 months, NH3 – 0, NO2 – 0, NO3 – 10ppm, S/G – 1.020 @ 27’C.
<I'd raise this... no more than a thousandth per day... to 1.025>
(I check water parameters every week using a red sea test kit)
Tank maintenance - Weekly 10% water changes, daily top up, twice a day feeding
using Sera Granumarin, 2 little fishes algae sheets, Krill
I introduced my first batch of fish (Maroon clown, Yellow tang, Powder brown
tang and regal tang) after 21 days of QT (In a 180 gallon QT with a internal
power filter- 50 liter water change every 2 days once)
All went well until my maroon clown suddenly wouldn’t eat and died in a day in
the display after 7 days of introducing him in the display
Later I suspected itch/Brooklynella and have put rest of the fish back to QT and
let the display fallow for 15 days.
<Mmm, not long enough if this is/was Crypt>
(My water is prepared 7 days in advance using Red SeaSalt mix)
My question is, If the fish didn’t show any symptoms in QT how did itch catch up
in the display after 6 days in spite of good water quality.
<Can remain "hidden" (subclinical)...>
Now the rest of the fish are healthy eating and doing good in the QT. I have
used copper with F/W baths and formalin baths as advised.
How should I ensure this doesn’t happen again….
<Rigorous dip/bathing and quarantine...>
Read a lot in your site but I don’t know where I went wrong.
<Perhaps you didn't "go wrong"... this does read more like Brooklynellosis...
very hard to discern...>
Also kindly advise if i have done everything in the right way.
Thanks and Regards,
Ashok Poondi
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>
Cloudy fins, SW fish diag.
5/30/08
Hi, I have a Longnose Butterfly that is covered in a fine "dust". It covers
his fins and makes them look cloudy.
<Err... such cloudiness is often symptomatic of Amyloodinium, aka Velvet... very
bad>
It also covers the front of his body and recently five or six spots turned up on
each eye. Initially I thought they were air bubbles because they didn't always
seem to be in the same spots and he eats really well, doesn't scratch against
rocks, and is not shy. He has been developing the spots for about a month now
<Oh! Then this is something else. Velvet would have killed all your fishes w/in
hours to days>
and I have hesitated to treat him for fear of killing him with the treatment
when I wasn't sure he was sick.
<You are wise here... Perhaps the root cause is environmental... not pathogenic>
When the spots turned up on his eyes and didn't go away after I turned off my
skimmer I decided they weren't air bubbles and he must have something. I removed
him from my main tank, gave him a freshwater dip with methylene blue and put him
in a quarantine. The spots are very small and I can't tell what color they are
except to say they aren't white. My water quality is good (0 ammonia, 15 ppm
Nitrates) and everything is consistent in my tank except sometimes the fish only
get fed once a day. No other fish show signs of illness. Do you think this is a
parasite? fungus?
<I do think this Forcipiger may be infested with subcutaneous worms of some sort
or perhaps Sporozoans...>
Should I treat with copper? dips?
<Mmm, none of these>
When treating with copper should I remove my bio wheel from the quarantine tank
and put it in the sump of my main tank to avoid killing off the good bacteria
during treatment?
Thanks,
Brendon
<I would first try a vermifuge... See WWM re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/vermifugefaqs.htm
and in series (after the above) an anti-protozoal (likely Metronidazole/Flagyl)
administered through foods/feeding. Bob Fenner>
Can apparently uninfected
fish be carriers?
Preventing The Spread of Parasitic Illness.. 5/6/08
Hi Crew,
<Hey there! Scott F. here today!>
On March 30 I had a sudden die off of 3 fish in my 90 gallon. I had quarantined
a little Tang I bought for about 3-4 weeks.
<Excellent practice!>
He was only about 1.5 inches so I thought he would be fine in my old nano which
was well cycled. I was pretty sure the eunicid worm that used to reside in the
rock had met his demise since I hadn't seen it for a while. Well, one day I went
up and I couldn't find my little Blue Tang. I picked up the rock and turned it
over a few times and no fish. I went downstairs and when I came back up he was
back in his favorite hiding place behind the heater. I was rather worried that
the worm was still alive. Not thinking logically, I decided to move it to the
main tank.
<Uh oh...have a hunch where this is going.>
Within a day or 2 he started showing signs of ich or velvet but he was still
eating. The Coral beauty was little aggressive toward him which didn't help. Any
way about 2 days later I woke up and all 3 algae eaters were dead. They were
eating fine the night before. I think if it disease maybe it was velvet because
of the speed it took.
<A very good hypothesis. This illness attacks and kills with astounding
rapidity.>
We put Advantage on our cats that day also. May be possible some got on the
Nori?
<It is possible if you didn't wash your hands after administering this
medication. Although the symptoms that you are describing seem indicative of a
disease rather than a poisoning event of some sort.>
Anyway my 2 Perculas, my corals, snails and my cleaner shrimp are fine. I
immediately removed the Clowns and initially put the recommended dose of
Cupramine in the quarantine. I removed the live rock from the quarantine to an
un cycled tank in the garage. I dosed them for a couple days and had a hard time
keeping the level up without getting too much. Anyway I quit dosing them because
they are obviously not sick. My question is should I dose them for a period of
time in case they are carriers before I put them back in the main tank? I'm
looking at a 10 week fallow period which would be June 8.
<Good questions. However, I would not dose copper prophylactically in the
future, because of potential "collateral damage" issues/ In your situation, a
two month fallow period makes sense. You simply cannot be too careful with a
disease like Marine Velvet. By removing all fishes from the display, and by
allowing the Clowns a period of time for observation, you're sort of covering
all the bases. Best of luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Blue tang and black&white
Sweetlips scratching, SW parasites – 03/20/08
I recently battled my first ich outbreak in 8 years and after copper
treatment all the fish are back in the display. The two fish have
been scratching for over two weeks now but no other signs that the ich has
returned. I added about 40 lbs of live rock and have noticed a
small trace of nitrites -- about .1.
<Mmm>
Could the nitrites be causing the fish to scratch?
<Yes>
All indications are that the fish are very healthy. Also, yesterday I saw what I
thought was an ich spot on my Foxface,
<Not ich/crypt if just one spot>
but today the spot on its side seemed to grow far larger than any ich spot I've
ever seen. Today it was gone -- could that have been lymph?
<Not likely>
The spot protruded from its side and fell off. Anyway, I'm really concerned
about the ich returning, and would like to know how long before spots would show
up if the scratching is ich related.
<Could be>
Again could the scratching just be water quality related as its only these two
fish?
<They're more sensitive likely... You are to be congratulated for keeping a
Sweetlips/Plectorhynchine... not easily done. Bob Fenner>
|
Disease Treatment Confusion,
SW... parasites 3/15/08
Hi WWM Crew ,
Your site and info is great. I've been reading for hours!
I introduced 2 small Yellow Tangs and 1 small Kole Tang to my setup.
<Umm, how large is this tank?>
Unfortunately, the Kole Tang died about 9 days after I got it (doing fine and
one morning I got up and within an hour or two it was dead).
I'm a novice - learned the hard way - ALWAYS QT new additions. Also, find
resources you can trust! That was Monday past. I called the LFS and the owner
suggested Melafix
<Worthless...>
in the main tank.
<No....!>
I noticed my 2 Saddleback Clowns (I've had them 4 months and they were super
healthy up to now) not looking so good the night before (slight film, fins
looking ragged, rapid breathing, listlessness, rubbing - but no spots). So I
dosed the display with Melafix
<...>
as per his directives for 3 days (he didn't mention it would harm my snails -
even though I told him everything in my setup, ugh). However, on the second
night of treatment (Tuesday) I noticed the Tangs had spots on their bodies and
fins (Ich), and a lot of it!
<Stress induced, but present already>
From another LFS, the owner told me to QT all the fish in my tank using the
original display tank water (to reduce the shock) and to stop using the Melafix.
<Good advice>
I did this Wednesday evening and have since given 2 doses of ParaGuard in the
QT. It is probably worth mentioning that the closest marine supply stores are 7
hrs. away. I am waiting to receive Cupramine at which point I was advised to
filter out the ParaGuard for a few hours and then start the Cupramine treatment.
But now having read so much on your site I am worried it may not be wise to
administer Cupramine to the Clowns (due to copper sensitivity and it sounds like
they could have Brooklynellosis which means copper is ineffective anyway?).
<If it is Brook, correct>
Should I put them in another, separate QT and
continue with the ParaGuard while using Cupramine on everyone else in the bigger
QT?
<If you have such facilities, yes>
If so, should I use all new mixed saltwater with the same pH, temp. and
Sp.Gravity or should I use some of the water they're already in to reduce stress
of possibly changing parameters?
<I would start making, using new water... the old is infested...>
I plan on letting the main tank lay fallow for 4 weeks, is 6 weeks preferable?
<Yes>
I apologize for all the questions but I want to make sure I give them the best
chance at survival possible and the info out there has been conflicting to say
the least. On the up side, they have continued to eat a little and my 2
Yellowtail and 2 Blue Devil Damsels (also in QT with everyone else) do seem
alright.
Thank you so much for your time :)
Sincerely,
Tracy
<I do wish you success... In the meanwhile, do keep studying. Bob Fenner>
Re: Disease Treatment
Confusion, SW... parasites... Brooklynellosis. Y. tang sys. – 03/20/08
Thanks for your reply Bob. I hope the crew and yourself are keeping well.
<I'm trying, thank you>
My current marine tank is 38g, but we're in the process of getting a 90g. Then
we'll likely use the 38g for the sump.
I realize how inadequate a 38g aquarium is for 2 yellow tangs
<Ah, yes>
but I was told by the LFS guy who sold them to me that it would be fine to house
them in the smaller tank while they are young.
<Mmm, only very young... This species clusters amongst finger-like Porites in
its range during its "high Sailfin" stage... but as it gets more than a couple
of inches long, starts ranging out...>
Had I been better informed I would have waited to get them. Thanks for all the
wonderful info on your site. I've learned a wealth of knowledge over the past
week alone.
<Ah, good>
So quickly, I've moved the 2 saddleback clowns into a 10g hospital and have been
treating Brooklynellosis with ParaGuard. They seem to
be doing very well and have regained their full appetite.
<A good sign>
The others:
2x 2" yellow tangs
2x 1" blue devil damsels
2x 1/2"-3/4" yellowtail blue damsels
are in a 20g hospital tank treated with Cupramine for Ich. Now no visible Ich
spots on their bodies.
<Mmm, if you had/have more room, I might treat the Yellow Tangs for Brook as
well... they can contract, be carriers>
Would the 90g be adequate to house the 2 yellow tangs and a yellow eye tang? Or
should I wait on the Kole tang until I get a 125g down the road?
<Would/will likely be okay in both/either case>
I'll likely be removing all 4 damsel terrors (although they are lookers).
I've also got an inquiry about a LR hitchhiker but will send separately.
Thanks again for all the time you and the WWM crew put into helping out fellow
hobbyists.
Tracy
<Welcome my friend. Bob Fenner>
|
Sick tank - how to proceed
03/04/2008
Hi Crew!
<Don>
I love your site! I visit it almost daily.
<I'm here every ding dang day... and really like it>
About three months ago, I upgraded from a 29 gallon fish-only, to a 55 gallon
reef tank. At that time, I moved my 29 to my office at work (the fish went into
my reef), and started a new fish-only there. In the three years I had run the
tank in my house, I had never encountered any disease, fungus, parasite, etc. In
hindsight, I realize how lucky I was. I put three fish in the tank in the office
- a false Perc, a yellow-tailed blue damsel, and a royal Gramma.
I need to pause here to admit my mistake of never running a QT tank (I now have
a 10-gallon setup at home). Huge mistake!
<You're learning!>
Within two weeks of adding the Gramma, the Damsel had some white stuff on the
underside of its mouth. Not sure what it was, I extracted him from the tank and
brought him back to the LFS where they would quarantine and treat it. Shortly
after that, the Gramma stopped eating and, although I could not see any signs of
any other problems externally, within a couple of days he was dead. About a week
later, the Clownfish stopped eating and had some stringy feces hanging from it.
After researching your site, I concluded that it was likely an internal
parasite, and started slowly lowering the specific gravity and increasing the
temperature. I also treated the tank, since the Clown was the only inhabitant,
with Formalin and Malachite Green,
<Mmm, these won't treat internal matters>
for 6 days, per the instructions of my LFS. During and after treatment, I tested
the water for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates, and all were good (ammonia,
nitrites - 0, nitrates - 20). Unfortunately, the poor fish never got better, and
has died as well.
<...>
This was a very depressing series of events, to say the least. I am very
dedicated to my tanks and their inhabitants, and am constantly reading,
learning, testing, and performing regular water changes. Despite all this, I
feel like a bad parent.
<Mmm, hopefully getting better>
I now have the tank running, which has about 2 inches of fine sand, some bare
coral rock for decoration and hiding places, and a Penguin bio-wheel filter,
with the only inhabitants being two hermit crabs. My question is, how long
should I leave the tank running before adding new inhabitants?
<Six weeks or so>
Would adding a cleaner shrimp first help to rid the tank of any lingering
parasites?
<No>
Could the shrimp become infected as well?
<Not really likely, no>
Thanks for all your help, which you unknowingly provide me often. I promise to
quarantine from this point forward.
Also, kudos to you guys for insisting on good spelling and grammar.
Don Austin
<We try... do let Non-native speakers slide quite a bit (I often think how bad
my Persian, Turkish, Macedonian... might be...), as well as children, folks of
apparent diminished capacity... What do "people" owe us/me/WWM? Common
courtesy... I thank you for yours. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
First attempt_Marine
Aquarium_Disaster -01/29/2008
Hello, I need a few questions answered after my tank being devastated by a
parasitic disease that doesn't quite match the symptoms of ich or velvet so I'm
reluctant to call it either. (No, I didn't quarantine, but definitely will after
this very costly experience).
<ah, school of hard knocks?>
I made several mistakes in my initial set-up. My tank is a 90 gallon with 70lbs
of live rock and live sand. All I had on it were a couple of powerheads and a
HOB Remora Pro skimmer. I had only 2 anthias in the tank for 2 months, and they
were doing quite well. I then introduced a juvenile Kole tang which never seemed
at ease, always freaked out when people would walk by. After a month, the tang
appeared ill. White powder-like dust was on its fins and it would rub/scratch
itself against the rock. I initially thought it was ich but realized soon that
it didn't match the appearance of ich as seen in online photos. I tried to catch
the tang or any of the fish, after setting up a hospital tank, but could never
succeed - a fish trap which cost me $40
<Hmm, and how much did your fish cost?>
and is essentially a primitive acrylic box, did not work. The tang died and
suddenly one of the anthias start showing symptoms, although different ones. The
anthias' skin was peeling, eyes slightly swollen, breathing heavy. It died the
next day.
<Have you read through this yet?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm>
A few days earlier I talked to one of the workers at my LFS , and he told me
that my set-up was not proper. So I bought a pro-clear wet dry filter, UV
sterilizer, and an in sump skimmer. I was reluctant after reading about
negativities over bio-balls on this site, but my LFS has exquisite looking
tanks,
<I do believe Bioballs can work well enough for fish-only tanks.>
the independent tanks with such sump/filters installed. So finally a few days
ago all of these were installed and I was down to only 2 fish, now having lost 3
in 4 days.
The tank looked a lot better with much more water flow- much less algae on the
glass - my 2nd anthias even looked much happier swimming around. Unfortunately
he/she (it was an in-between) died the next day, having shown symptoms all of a
sudden and dying 5 hours later. So I am down to 1 firefish (assuming he's going
to die soon) and about 15 snails and 15 hermit crabs.
<Amyloodinium maybe?>
Here's the scariest part which I just noticed and prompted me to email you:
From a distance, it looks like there are microbubbles floating on the glass. At
close inspection I can see that they are not bubbles but little white moving
dots. At EXTREME close inspection I can see that they are living organisms
moving around freely. I'm assuming that whatever parasites infested and knocked
off my fish have now multiplied and truly taken over my tank.
<Uh, not necessarily... quite likely these "white moving dots" are something
else entirely (copepods maybe).>
So from what I've read here the appropriate thing to do is leave the tank fallow
for 8 weeks. Will this only be enough to get rid of the parasites? Any other
suggestions?
<Well, it can't hurt to let the tank age a bit with the new changes/equipment.>
I will get a quarantine tank and quarantine every fish, but I'm confused over
some info which seems to be different depending on who I ask. How long should
the quarantine last? I've read 2 weeks, 3 and 6 weeks. My tang did not show any
symptoms until 4 weeks so if I would have quarantined him for 2 weeks it would
not have done much good.
<Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm
Also look at the "related FAQs" links at the top.>
Will quarantine really eliminate any possibility of outbreaks?
<Possibly not entirely, but it does/will greatly reduce the risk of it.>
Did the parasites come from somewhere else or is it most likely the tang brought
it in?
<either>
Also in the future I would like to get corals. Should they be quarantined too?
<Yes, please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quarinverts.htm>
Separately from fish? Can I add corals while I'm leaving my tank fallow for 8
weeks? Can corals also bring any of these diseases?
<Yes, probably not, and yes... please do some reading on this site (and/or
elsewhere if need be). There is a LOT already written on these topics.>
Thanks.
<De nada,
Sara M.>
Re: First attempt_Marine
Aquarium_Disaster -01/29/2008
Just wanted to update on those tiny white creatures on my glass; My firefish
is currently eating them.
<cool... live food is good for the fish>
He keeps going at the glass and feasting. Are they not parasites but just
copepods, zooplankton?
<quite likely, yes>
Where would they have come from?
<Copepods/amphipods/etc. are almost ubiquitous hitch-hikers on live rock, coral,
just about anything wet will potentially carry them.
Best,
Sara M.>
Treatment Troubles, SW
parasites... 1/26/08
I have a 3 month old 65 gallon tank with three fish: a clownfish, a dot-dash
butterfly, and the recently added coral beauty (I am taking it slow).
<Mmm, I would have waited on the BF and Centropyge...>
I committed the cardinal sin of fishkeeping and did not quarantine any of them.
The day after adding the Coral Beauty, I noticed minute white specks peppering
the top half of it's body. I have experience with freshwater ich, and these
spots were far tinier and more abundant. I concluded that it was velvet, and
immediately (after doing some internet research) bought some copper safe, a
copper test kit, and a sponge filter. I disassembled my rock formations and
caught all three fish, moving them to a twenty gallon tank for treatment, bare
but for the sponge, a heater, and a few (dead) rocks
<... will still absorb the copper...>
for them to hide behind. I've been maintaining a copper level of 2,
<Units? Significant figures please>
and have been doing daily water changes to keep down the ammonia, which has been
hovering around .5.
<ppm? Way too high, toxic>
I'm using tap water, and stress coat for the purpose of dechlorination.
<The Stress Coat product will precipitate out the medication if it's present,
and can give false positive results for ammonia tests...>
The first couple days the fish acted lethargic. In the main tank, even before I
got the Coral Beauty, the butterfly made frequent trips to the cleaner shrimp to
have things removed from it's gills, in spite of acting healthy in every other
regard. In the treatment tank, it flashed against the rocks until it injured
itself. It also would twitch or shake occasionally, which I read can be a sign
of poor water conditions, so I stepped up the water changes. After the first few
days, the shaking and the flashing stopped, and the scrapes are now gradually
healing. The butterfly still hovers in the path of the bubbles from the sponge
filter, positioning itself so that the air massages it's gills and scrapes. The
clown has shown absolutely no spots or "sick" behavior. By day four of the
treatment, all three fish were all acting significantly better, and were all
swimming and eating voraciously. It's now day ten, and they are all acting happy
and healthy.
<Perhaps the parasite population is cycling...>
Now... I did not have a spare light for this tank, so the fish have been living
with only the dim ambient light of the room. I have tried unsuccessfully to
shine a flashlight on the Coral Beauty to check out the specks, but every time
the flashlight approached, the fish darted behind a rock. I finally got a light
for the tank today, and low and behold, there is a spot. A large, ich-like spot.
<Mmm, this may be "nothing">
Color me perplexed. That was not there when I began the treatment. That's not
what I thought I was treating, and even if it was, why is it still here ten days
later, in a tank full of copper? Obviously, I don't have experience with this,
but I really care about these fish and feel willing to potentially make an idiot
of myself for their well-being, including hauling a four gallon bucket of
saltwater back and forth to the tank 2 or 3 times a day. Am I doing something
wrong, or am I just impatient?
<Mmmm...>
How long should this take? Is it possible that instead of ich, this new white
spot is something else, like a very small tumor? (a possibly stupid question,
but I did say I am willing to make an idiot of myself.)
<Again, I would not be overly concerned with the spot... the "dusting" you
treated for may have been (likely was) Crypt... if Amyloodinium/Velvet, your
fishes would likely be dead...>
Thank you. Your website has made up the bulk of my reading in the last few
months.
Sara K.
<Please do set aside a bit of time to read on WWM re formalin bath/dips...
consider their use here... Ignore the one white dot. Bob Fenner>
Possible
Break Out... 1/26/08
Hey Crew,
<Tom>
I received this Blue Girdled Angel for Christmas. He was a sunrise
<?>
based on advise to a family member by a LFS.
<... the angels of the subgenus Euxiphipops are not easily kept...>
I know this is not an easy fish to keep but it was a gift and I must try
my best. I have had it in a quarantine tank for four weeks. Last night I
went in to check his tank and feed him and noticed white spots on his
head and his eyes are fogged. Thank goodness I read Bobs book and the
site and quarantine for six weeks and not two or three as other
publication claim as acceptable.
<Am glad for this as well>
The tank is forty gallons and I did a fifteen gallon water change this
morning to be safe. I felt last night that this spotting may be diet
related and spent a few hours looking on your web site for anything I
could find. After reading I think the eyes are an environment problem.
<Mmm, but the other spots, markings...>
I did a water change and will test the waters chemical levels after it
turns over for a while. The spots today are worse and I am thinking it
is Crypt.
<I agree>
I am sending you some photos and was hoping you could look at them. I
wanted a second opinion before going to purchase some Copper Safe and
treat him.
<Perhaps too late for this approach. I would make/use a formalin dip and
institute a Quinine series STAT!>
If he or she makes it and I can clear this up I am going to extend the
quarantine for another six week to be safe. I have never had a disease
or parasite before. I guess everyone's luck runs out eventually. I want
to thank you in advance for any help.
Tom
<Read on WWM re the species, genus, Crypt and MOVE! Get/use the formalin
today. Bob Fenner> |
|
.jpg) |
Help! Unidentifiable Disease
on my fish! System... 1/16/08
Hi There,
I need your help and fast. I have a 260 gal tank with a foxy face, Hawkfish, 2
dwarf colored beauties,
<Centropyge?>
a saddle back clown, and 1 candy stripe shrimp. My boyfriend have recently
acquired this 7 year old happy tank from his father. I had been doing lots of
research in reef aquariums and gladly took it off his hands. We have both a
protein skimmer and the "bio ball" type filters. 2 VHO fluorescent lights and 1
actinic.... I know we could stand more lighting we're purchasing some metal
halides in the upcoming month. Anyway about 4 days ago we bought our first
anemone a smaller rose BTA. I've read that all fish and inverts are to be
quarantined for a min of 3 weeks. I asked my LFS before the purchase how long
they isolate their fish / inverts, and how long do the recommend for my new BTA.
the girls said that they have already iso'ed all their specimens before being
brought out on the floor. Then told me not to iso off the BTA b/c you should
never do this to any invert. This was the opposite from everything that I have
read....... I followed what she said and now I fear I'm paying the price. The
BTA seems happy eating well moved around a bit but seems to have found Our foxy
today (3 days later) seems to have a few black spots on it .....
<Paravortex?>
So I think ok it's black ich. Only on the top on the fish and on some of the
fins there are larger white bumps ... at first I thought maybe this is some sort
of parasite that's latched on... pretty sure it's not bacterial. He also seems
to have a few scratches on both of his sides where I'm guessing that he was
trying to rub these little buggers off. I google up black and white spots and
foxy seems to have symptoms of both black and white ich. I don't know if that is
possible
<Oh yes... is>
but it doesn't seem too unreasonable. I started to prepare my fresh water for a
dip
<... but replacing the fish/es back in the infested system?>
and after the water heated up (about 2 hours or so) I came back and all the
larger white lumps are gone. The smaller black dots are barely visible and now
his tail fin is covered in a fine mucusy substance. He's hiding in the rocks a
bit more than usual but is still eating fine not acting noticeably lethargic. I
can't find anything to match these symptoms online. What the heck is this and
how should I treat it? Remove the BTA to the hospital tank? Or only Foxy?
Laurel
<... all the fishes need to be removed, treated elsewhere... or a decision made
to "weather" the infested system... Please, when you have time, and soon...
start reading here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm
the linked files above, and where you lead yourself. Bob Fenner>
QT questions... Treatment w/o
knowledge, SW... parasitic... reading 10/16/07
Love your website! Last week I my fish in my 29 gal came down with ich. It
has a six-line wrasse, a firefish, Banggai cardinal (no signs of ich),
red-lipped blenny, and had a mandarin (it expired). The fish haven't been in
there too long, maybe two months. I took the fish out and dipped them in a FW
bath for 5 minutes, containing copper.
<...>
I then placed them in a Qt tank.
<Too late for quarantine... now treatment>
I have been adding clout (daily), Pimafix (daily) and Metronidazole (every 2
days) to the tank. None of the fish have visible parasites, but the blenny was
constantly hitting its gills against a rock. Since I began medication,
yesterday, he has become listless and red (more so than normal). The other fish
appear to be all right at the moment.
<...>
I am going to let my tank cycle without fish for about three weeks. Is my method
of treatment kosher?
<Mmm, if I understand the term to mean what it does... no>
I read that clout may not be a good treatment. How about Metronidazole?
<... one of the ingredients in Clout is Metronidazole/Flagyl... http://www.aq-products.com/MSDSsheets/Regular%20Line%20MSDS/CLOUT%20%20CL%20%20ISSUE%201%20.doc>
Is it a good antiparasitic medication?
<For some applications, yes>
And lastly, how long should I treat the fish in the tank? I was going to give
them another FW dip before putting them back into my tank. I have also read
about hypo-salinity treatments where the SG is lowered to 1.010 ppm. That seems
too low to me and I am weary that it may only cause undue stress.
Thank you.
<... Please... read before writing us... Start here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
scan through the sections/trays on Parasitic Disease, Treatment... What you've
done won't work... but to kill your livestock, drain your wallet, get you out of
the hobby... Bob Fenner>
The Itchy and Scratchy Show.
SW parasitic disease diagnosis, trtmt. possibilities 9/2/07
Hi Bob and Co.,
<Art>
Thanks for all the expert advice this site provides... I am in dire need of some
of that expertise, regarding a parasite problem and how to treat multiple types
of fishes simultaneously, in one hospital tank.
I'll try to be succinct.
<Hotay>
First of all, I have already moved all my fishes to my 30 gallon hospital tank,
letting my reef tank go fallow. It will be 2 weeks on labor day. As soon as I
moved them, I began lowering the salinity in the hospital tank, until it reached
1.0165 (a week ago today). I raised the temperature to 80 degrees-- I would have
raised it higher, were it not for the Ventralis Anthias and Helfrichi Firefish.
I have been running a UV sterilizer on the HT as soon as I put the fish in, and
also vacuuming the bottom of the tank , removing and replacing a couple of
gallons at least every other day. There are 2 Aquaclear 70 power filters on it
(no carbon). There is no substrate, only a few PVC pipes and 3 rocks for hiding
places ( the rocks did not come from my infested display tank).
I believed all the fishes had ich or were exposed to it, and I chose
hyposalinity because of the diversity of rare, hard to find (and expensive)
fishes I have collected. I have killed as many fishes as I have cured using
copper, no matter how carefully I follow directions or how slowly I build up the
dose-- in my experience, you can't tell how much copper a fish can tolerate
until it's dead or irreparably damaged (I used Cupramine and yes, I used the
correct test kit to monitor the dosage).
Currently, I have a Candy Basslet (Liopropoma Carmabi), Yellow Assessor,
Helfrichi Firefish, Pygmy Possum Wrasse (Wetmorella Triocellata), Flagtail
Dartfish ( Ptereleotris uriditaenia), Ventralis Anthias, and a Mandarin. I know
the Mandarin doesn't tolerate copper (well) and I suspect the same is true for
the Helfrichi Firefish and the Dartfish.
<Agreed>
I assumed the culprit was ich because the Firefish, Dartfish, Anthias, and Candy
Basslet -- in that order--were all scratching their gills against rocks etc.. I
actually saw very light outbreaks of ich on the Firefish , Possum Wrasse and
perhaps the Mandarin. I did 20% water changes 6 days in a row, vacuuming the
substrate each time. The ich usually disappeared, and the scratching stopped for
some fish, and became far less frequent for others. The Anthias continued to
solicit a Neon Goby and a Blood Shrimp to clean his gills. From the first
symptom, this scenario occurred over a period of at least 8 weeks before I
decided to catch everything and treat in my hospital tank. I decided to do this
when the Candy Basslet started scratching, and a Neon Goby and a Catalina Goby
came down with a heavier, visible concentration of ich (I did not move them to
the hospital tank and they are no longer in the display tank either).
I have still never seen ich on the Anthias, Candy Basslet or Dartfish. When I
first moved the fishes, the scratching stopped. A couple of days ago, they
started again. Last night I performed FW dips (with Methylene Blue, temperature
and pH adjusted) on the fishes that were scratching (Candy Basslet, Possum
Wrasse, Firefish, Anthias and the Mandarin, who wasn't scratching). They were
doing fine today, but by evening, the Candy Basslet and Possum Wrasse were
scratching again. I have continuously checked the ammonia since they were moved,
and it has always been zero.
<Good>
In the last couple of days, I have begun to suspect that these fishes have been
infected with velvet.
<Yes... possibly this or even other protozoan/s...>
I am sure that some fish had ich, because I saw it-- could these that are
scratching their gills and do not show parasites have something else?
<Yes>
I remember once, a year and a half ago, I had a similar situation with a trio of
Hippo Tangs. I used Formalin baths, but the next evening, the Tangs would be
scratching their gills again. I finally realized that they only did this at
night, when the tank lights were on. I told the LFS owner about this, and he
said that Velvet was dependent on light, and if I kept the tank in total
darkness for 72 hours, the Velvet parasites would die. This actually seemed to
work-- I lost one Tang in the blackout, but the other two were cured, as far as
I could tell-- because they stopped scratching.
<Is an old timey approach... Amyloodinium is a Dinoflagellate... partially
photosynthetic...>
Starting tomorrow, I will be observing my fishes to see if they are scratching
in the daytime, when the tank lights are off.
Have you ever heard of/used this light deprivation treatment, and do you
consider it effective in treating velvet (or any other parasite you suspect is
the culprit) ?
<Have heard and even used it... more effective with Freshwater Velvet... not
always such predictable results with marines>
I am still not fully convinced this is velvet-- I don't see any dusting (a later
symptom, I have read), and they are not hyperventilating or hanging near the
surface. Their appetites seem to be somewhat diminished, but this could be from
their new surroundings, or maybe lowered salinity? I'm not sure.
<Need a microscope... some simple stains... Not hard to take a look/see... Do
you have access to a copy of Ed Noga's Fish Disease, Diagnosis and Treatment?>
Also, from what I have read, if it was velvet, these fishes would likely be dead
by now, as this has been going on for a few weeks.
<Mmm, generally, yes... but you have been treating for this possibility...>
With the exception of the symptoms I have described, they look and behave like
healthy fishes. None of them have any visible ich parasites-- the Wrasse and
Mandarin have 'cleared' since being in the low salinity HT.
Based on what I have told you, what is your diagnosis?
<That you need a scope and at least a read through Noga...>
I am considering starting the blackout treatment ASAP-- to me, it doesn't make
sense to stress the fish with capture and dipping, only to return them to a tank
where they will be reinfested. If the blackout is indeed effective, it seems
like the least harmful way to diminish the parasite population in the tank to a
'tolerable' level, without killing the biological filter or accidentally
poisoning the fishes. After the blackout and the fishes have readjusted to the
light, I am planning to give them all FW dips, and simultaneously do a large (up
to 50%) water change, just to further reduce the number of remaining parasites.
If the fishes do not respond to FW dips, I suppose I will very cautiously try
Formalin dips (or baths).
Does this sound like the right treatment course to you?
<Mmm, no... a bit too stressful for these fishes (and most species) to be in
such total darkness... I would go the Quinine Sulphate route here if you did not
have quick access to the scope... or not. See WWM, FishyFarmacy re...>
What parasite(s) do you think is/are responsible?
<Can't tell... could be simply Crypt... might be Crypt and Amyloodinium... could
be... other Protists...>
As you can see, I am really paranoid about putting medication directly in the
hospital tank. With all my fishes in there, it would be a disaster if I killed
the biological filter, and I can't think of a 'one size fits all' effective
medication for my diverse inhabitants that will not poison at least some of
them. Please, any suggestions are welcome (short of setting up yet another
tank!)
As always, thanks for your patience and generosity in sharing your experience !
Art
<Noga, scope, Quinine... along with all else you're currently doing... Bob
Fenner>
Marine Ich, Maybe 813/07
Good Morning Bob & Co,
<Good morning.>
I have been cycling a 60gal/skimmer/100lb live rock tank for a month now and
have a damsel in there. Its a month now and this morning I notice a white spot
on the damsel's tail. Looks like the beginning of an Ich.
<Uh oh>
I added the 100 lbs of live rock a week ago from a guy who had broken down his
reef tank and he had it sitting in his garage for a couple of weeks in a large
container with a powerhead. I thought it would be safe to add this directly to
my tank. Maybe this was the source of my trouble.
<Could be, if it was kept wet it could have been harboring the parasite.>
Anyway, my question is the following. I have a quarantine tank.
After moving the damsel to QT and observing it
(http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm), and if I leave the main tank without
any fish or host for a month or so will it be safe to add fishes again?
<4 to 6 weeks needed here.>
Or am I looking at tearing the tank down before even I got started!!
<Unnecessary>
I learning the price of not QTing all things wet, and adding things directly
early on :(
<Yep>
As always many thanks for all your help,
Gans
<Chris>
Re: Marine Ich, Maybe
8/13/07
Gentlemen,
<Where?>
Just an update. I moved the damsel to the QT tank and I see that white the spot
in the tail has disappeared! Not sure what to make of it??
Ill keep in there for a couple of weeks just to be sure.
Thanks again
<Keep an eye on it, it could have just cycled off, or it could have just been
sand or other debris. But better to be safe than sorry here.>
<Chris>
Difficult Case of Ich, or
something else? 8/12/07
I've spent hours reading the WWM website since setting up my new saltwater
system in April, and appreciate all of your hard earned knowledge that you so
freely share. Thanks so much. I have a problem with what I think is ich, and am
stumped and frustrated. I've got a 75 gallon FOWLR, 40 lbs of live rock, about 1
inch of CaribSea aragonite, an Aqua C Remora Pro skimmer, Emperor 400 BioWheel,
384 watt Orbit CF, two 1200 Maxi Jets, and two 900 Maxi Jets. Temp has been at
78 in the main tank (80 in the qt), calcium 350, Ph 8.3, Alk 11 dKH, nitrite 0,
nitrate 0.
I've got a Neon Dottyback, two Percula Clowns (all tank raised), and a wild
caught Flame Angel. I did not QT the angel since she had been at the LFS for a
month,
<Mmmm, you'll learn... are learning...>
in a copper treated tank for preventative measures, and looked great every time
I went in to visit her. I did a Methylene Blue dip before adding her. Two days
after introducing her to my tank, she had what appeared to be white spots on
her. Since I was new to diagnosing, I asked the LFS about it, and he determined
that it was probably just air bubbles.
<Not likely>
I continued to observe, and about a month later found her heavily infested,
swimming slowly in circles and breathing heavily. I dipped all of them in
freshwater / methylene blue, and put them in QT
<Actually treatment, not quarantine>
with CopperSafe, where they've been for the last 35 days, which is also how long
the main tank has had no fish in it so as to allow the ich to die. The only
inhabitants were two blue hermits. The angel got a secondary infection from the
wounds, which I treated with Maracyn. They all looked great after that, up until
about three days ago, when the smaller clown had a couple of spots. A couple of
days later, they went away. Since I was well over a month into this process, and
the fish were sick of their cramped quarters, I decided to just dip everybody
again in FW/methylene and add them back to the main tank, reasoning that the
clown had dropped whatever parasites he had, and that the dip should take care
of anything lingering. I talked it over with the LFS, asking if they thought it
was appropriate to do this, and they agreed it would probably be ok by now.
I reintroduced the angel and the small clown yesterday, and already I see one
white spot on the angel. The smaller clown who showed a couple of spots recently
is fine. I can't believe that ich could still be alive in the main tank after 35
days.
<Might... but far more likely is that the treatment wasn't monitored
sufficiently... Needs to be tested for at least daily>
I am so disappointed that the treatment didn't seem to work. Could it be
something else?
<Mmm, yes... other protozoans, sporozoans, some worms...>
I have also observed some small worm looking things that come out at night and
are attracted to the lunar lights.
<Mmm, not these. There is a huge mix of such life that times, uses the cover of
night for distribution, food-gathering, reproduction... Almost all are
non-pathogenic>
They are only about 2 mm long, and squiggle. Any cause for concern?
<Not IMO>
I don't want to net the angel again since she was looking pretty stressed out
after the last go around. Should I get a UV sterilizer, maybe add a cleaner
shrimp?
<Good choices, considerations...>
Should I change out all of the gravel?
<Mmm, no... I wouldn't... Not likely to get you what you're looking for>
If I treat the main tank with CopperSafe, could I replace the live rock and
gravel and still be safe for inverts later? (The live rock has Caulerpa growing
all over it anyway.)
Thanks in advance for your help.
Kim
<I would go the permanent infested tank route... with the cleaner, UV first,
rather than nuke all the main system with Copper... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files above... till you understand this option. Bob Fenner>
Advice on fish deaths...
parasitic? 8/7/07
Hello,
<Hi there>
I have a 75 gallon fish and live rock marine tank that has been up and running
well for over five years.
Current water tests: Ammonia- 0, Nitritre-0, Nitrate-20, pH-8.3, Alk-3.5meq/l,
specific gravity-1.025, temp-76 degrees.
On June 30th I added a sleeper goby to the tank (after 2 weeks of quarantine).
Everyone seemed fine and 3 weeks later I left on a 10-day vacation. While I was
away, a friend came to top up the tank and check the temperature every couple of
days. The fish were fed with an automatic feeder.
<So far so good>
When I returned, my Kole tang and the sleeper goby had disappeared. All of the
equipment in the tank was functioning fine except the pump for the down-draft
skimmer was turned off. I re-started it. The next morning, my flame angel was
dead. I also noticed that my Bartlett's anthias was pale and breathing rapidly.
<Oh oh>
I changed 30% of the water. By the next day, the anthias had died. I performed
another 30% water change. Two days later I noticed that my Carpenter's flasher
wrasse was also breathing heavily and looked pale. He died later that afternoon.
I now only have two fish left in my tank.. a latticed butterfly and a female
Carpenter's flasher wrasse.
None of the fish showed any symptoms except the rapid breathing and pale color.
I also, have two cleaner shrimp that seem to be doing just fine.
I was hoping that you might be able to give me your opinion as to what is going
on here. Do you think that I am dealing with a pathogen introduced by the
sleeper goby, or do you think that the Kole tang died shortly after I left and
his decaying body caused an ammonia spike that damaged the other fish?
<The former... Likely Amyloodinium...>
I have read through the disease section and did not find anything that matched
the symptoms that I observed.
As you might guess, I would like to do everything I can to save my remaining
fish. With the exception of the sleeper goby, I have had the other fish between
2 and 5 years and they have all thrived with the advice I have read on this site
and in both of Bob's books.
Thank you for any suggestions you might have to offer.
Regards,
Joy
<Need microscopic examination to be much more sure... but. Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm
and the linked files above. The quarantine time might have been too short... and
the gills of the mal-affected fishes been first affected... Bob Fenner>
Re: Advice on fish deaths,
Velvet? 8/7/07
Dear Bob,
<Joy>
Thank you very much for your assistance. I will move the remaining flasher
wrasse and the latticed butterfly to my quarantine tank and begin treating them
today. From your article, I am guessing that your preference would be to use
Chloroquine in the hospital tank.
<Yes>
Hopefully, with a lot of luck, I'll be able to save my remaining fish. Neither
fish is showing any symptoms yet.
<As I get older (beats the alternative as the saying goes) some dynamics,
aspects of experiential phenomena really do seem to be changing... I can
remember the "bad old days" when Velvet would just kill all off in short
order... Events nowadays seem to be more sporadic...>
May I ask you one final question? I am planning to upgrade my tank to a 200
gallon tank in the next couple of months (a birthday present from my husband).
Originally, I was going to transfer the live rock and all of the livestock to
the new tank. Would you recommend I still do that after the tank has been left
fallow for a couple of months?
<Likely so... along with lowering spg, raising temp.>
As you know live rock is not inexpensive, but I also don't want to jeopardize
infecting the new tank.
Again, I really appreciate the opportunity to benefit from your vast experience.
Regards,
Joy
<And to you, BobF>
ick... You're joking?
8/6/07
trying to treat ick in a 75 gallon saltwater tank with live rock and an
anemone, also skimmer and refugium. doing massive water changes to help , do
not have a active biological filter to move to hospital tank , fish are
feeding, moved new fish into display to soon, angel s and butterfly involved,
thanks ron
<... Please... send your writings through a spelling, grammar checker before
sending... And learn to/use the search tool/indices on WWM... Your msg. only
makes partial sense... You need to READ and soon... starting here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
RMF>
Strange Marine Disease?
Casually parasitizing ones SW sys. 8/1/07
Hey guys,
<Scott>
We have a 215L marine tank that has been running for about 18months now. It is
populated with 1 Coral Banded Shrimp, 2 O. Clownfish, 1 Blue Mandarinfish and
some Red-Mushrooms. All has been going well and we have made a point to keep the
water quality consistent. Sg: 1.022,
<I'd raise this... to NSW strength... 1.025-6>
Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite all
0. PH 8.2-8.4.
Past weekend we went and purchased a small Longfin Bannerfish.
<Your system is too small for a Heniochus>
We asked the shop owner to feed it so we could ensure it was eating prior to
purchasing it. The fish ate quite happily. We got the fish home and he seemed a
little concerned as his new house, the clowns and shrimp gave him a lil hard
time, but nothing too serious.
<Mmm... not really>
Anyways, On Monday arvo
<?>
the fish suddenly seemed lazy and had white-spots on it's fins.
<Yikes...>
In the next 2-3hours the fish declined VERY rapidly until it could no longer
swim, or stay upright. I put the fish into a marine breeding cage and tried to
feed it garlic-soaked food but it wouldn't eat.
<...>
The fish died overnight and was half covered in something I can only describe as
like a semi-clear/white gel in the morning. I did some research and Marine
Velvet seemed to be a likely candidate. The water in the tank has gone a
white-cloudy colour so we are doing 40% daily WC until it clears. So far all is
pretty text-book.
My lovely red mushrooms, have turned into slime however... From being a nice
sized bunch of happy mushrooms, they were not looking too good when the fish got
sick and now have turned into nothing but slime. They seemed to be giving off
some/all of the white-cloudiness (but I cannot confirm this as 90% of it
occurred in the night).
Suddenly, A Text-book illness has turned very strange. The other fish seem to be
eating well and haven't had any noticeable changes in their behaviour since it
died (12+hrs ago).
Hopefully you can offer some advice or knowledge as to what event has occurred
in our tank to cause a fish to die so quickly, and my healthy mushrooms to
become slime...
Thanks,
Scott
<... could be that the Butterfly was picking on the Mushrooms... or that its
death somehow chemically triggered the behavior... Likely the Corallimorphs will
recover... And/But likely your system is now infested with a parasite... that
will express itself on your other fish life in a few days... In prep. please
read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Strange Marine Disease?
Parasitic tank – 08/01/07
Hey guys,
Thanks for the reply. I will be raising the sg in a couple of months by going to
NSW instead of ASW (live by the beach but its raining and winter now). The
Bannerfish was still very small, approx 4-5cm long and was to be housed in the
215L/50G until it was larger, then moved into our 520L/125G Display system
(which has my Hippo tang in QT at the moment).
I have read through the FAQ you supplied and used the mighty google to try and
determine what has happened (note, I had another coral frag in tank which has
also crashed). It seems as though the fish had a very rapid version of
Lymphocystis. This would explain the white-spots and white-gel like coating
found on the fish in the morning.
<Mmm, no... is/was very likely Cryptocaryon... You'll know soon>
The material suggests this diseases is not fatal
<Never rapid onset>
on most occasions, but will make your fish subjectable to other diseases. Could
this have been induced by the fish being under stress from tankmates? and led
onto a follow-on effect of another illness that has wiped the fish and corals
out? Bacteria Bloom perhaps?
Hopefully you can shed some light on the strange events. I don't think my
mushrooms will recover... there isn't anything left of them but long-gooey
slime.
<Something else going on here... What is near the mal-affected Cnidarians?>
All other fish are being checked twice-daily to see if they are showing any
signs of infection, but they all seem to be behaving normally. All are eating
still. We are doing 40% WC daily with ASW to try and remove the white-cloudiness
in the tank.
Do you think Lymphocystis could be the cause of this event?
<Not at all>
On a good note, the Blue Mandarinfish in the tank has decided it is time for her
to find a bf, and she will present herself after lights out fins-flared showing
off. Quite awesome to see her hunt for a mate.
Regards,
Scott.
<Keep a keen eye out... BF>
HELP! Parasites on the loose! Sick Fish, LFS
Advice 7/24/07
Dear WWM Crew,
<Hello>
As I am sure you are all aware, your site is a great learning tool!
<I agree>
I've searched around your site and found some answers, but I am new to this
hobby and in desperate need of some direct assurance since my LFS has been
perhaps giving me some bad advice!
<Not uncommon unfortunately.>
I have a 2 months running 55gal with 40lbs. live rock, 60lbs. aragonite live
sand, a Eheim 2028 canister, a Prizm Pro Skimmer, Nova t-5 HO 8x54 Watt w/4
lunars. pH-8.4, Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, and Phosphate all 0. S.G. @ 1.023
and temp @78F. I plan to add some softies when I gain some more experience.
<Ok>
My tank finished cycling around week four. Week five I added a false perc.
Week six I added 2 PJ cardinals. I never QT'd them because LFS said it was not
necessary. <Not necessary if they want to sell more livestock.>
Well, week 7 one of the clown's pelvic fins was retracted and looked like it was
rotting away! LFS said he'd be fine. There was nothing to worry about. <Of
course.> I took it upon myself to give him a freshwater dip. Thinking back that
was probably counterproductive since I basically fed him back to the
parasites. <Assuming there are parasites, fin rot can have a lot of causes.> I
added a cleaner shrimp as per some FAQ's I read on the site. The clown kept
"running" from him. <Not uncommon, many smaller fish feel threatened by cleaner
shrimp and avoid them.> Last night he stopped eating and was swimming so
erratically he was smashing into the rocks. This morning he was lying on the
bottom breathing heavily and wiggling. I took him out and he passed on before I
could even end his suffering. :-(. I brought him to the LFS and it was
determined it was a horrible case of parasites.
<Need to be more specific here, lots of different parasites and some need to be
treated differently than others.>
This is what I am planning to do. Please tell me if I am crazy or if I am on the
right track. I have a small 5 gallon acrylic bowfront that I would like to put
the PJ's in for a few weeks to rid the main tank of parasites. (I know it is
small but I really don't plan on keeping large fish and can't fit anything
larger in my apartment.) <Will require some work, a ten would be much better.> I
already filled the tank water from the main tank. I want to let the tank sit
over night and tomorrow pick up some PVC and an airstone. (The tank has a small
submersible tetra whisper micro filter but I m not sure If that's okay for SW).
<Good for water movement.> Is it more sensible to use a sponge filter? <Either
is fine.> How long does it have to sit in my tank to accumulate beneficial
bacteria? <A couple weeks.> What product do you recommend for treating the
parasites? <Depends on the parasites, take a look here and see if you can
determine what is really happening. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm >
Does the cleaner shrimp have to be moved as well? <Should not need to be.> I'm
pretty sure they are sensitive to most medications. <yes, very.> Will the
parasites make the cleaner their new host? <Most likely not.> Is 2 weeks
enough time to allow the tank be rid of parasites? <No, 4 to 6 weeks required
here.> Will 2 weeks be enough for the PJ's to be rid of parasites? <Again,
depends on what they have been exposed too.> Can they be safely placed in the
main tank
after being treated even though I plan to add some corals in the near future?
<Yes, after treatment and proper fallow period.>
Please advise. I don't want to hurt anymore of these little creatures!
After all, I did start this hobby to admire their beauty.
Thank bunches,
Jessica
<I think you need to find a new LFS, without a more specific diagnosis it is
tough to determine what the proper course of action is here.>
<Chris>
Parasites, SW, reading... 7/22/07
Hello there,
<Jared>
I need some help getting rid of parasite for good. As a rookie I set me tank up
without a QT tank running along with it. Well needless to say my first three
fish died of saltwater velvet. I left the tank fallow for almost 2 months and
got a QT tank. So I started off with a few damsels, they did great for a month
so I went and got a yellow tang. Both spent three weeks in the qt. No problems.
So I bought a black Hawaiian trigger.
<How large is this system?>
Still no problems. For 2 months everything was great, then everything went down
hill. The saltwater velvet popped up again. The 2 damsels have died and I pulled
the trigger and tang out and put them in the qt.
<Not a quarantine, but a treatment tank>
The LFS told me some saltwater velvet can lay dormant for 6 months in some
cases.
<Yes>
There advice was to bleach my live rock and sand and bleach the tank. Still not
sure what to do with all the filters and powerheads?
<Leave in place... bleach expose all>
I am willing to do this if it will completely rid my tank of the parasites.
<They may be resident on your fishes... and this may not be Amyloodinium, or
that alone>
Is this the best thing to do? The whole bleach in an aquarium pretty much freaks
me out. Once I get it back up and running for about 6 months successfully I want
to eventually get a refugium and introduce some corals. How can I be sure to get
all of the bleach out that way I don't waste even more money?
<Posted... Please read: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnornart.htm
And use the search tool for more on Parasite Control... Bob Fenner>
Thanks for all your help,
Jared
Re: Parasites – 07/22/07
Ok it’s a 75 gallon tank. So you said to leave everything in place to treat.
You mean don’t take anything out of the tank just put chlorine in the tank?
Nothing living is still in my tank so can I pull everything out of my tank,
pumps, filters and clean with bleach??
<... please... read where you were referred to. RMF>
Saltwater Tank in trouble... 7/14/07
My boyfriend currently has a 55 gallon saltwater tank going. He just started
it up about a month and a half ago. We have a coral banded shrimp, a chocolate
chip starfish,
<Not easily kept... and all seastars are hard to keep alive in such new systems>
(had two) one domino damsels,
<A meanine>
a hermit crab, and a yellow tang some dead live rock for base, with one 3 lb.
piece of living live rock. The specific gravity recently spiked to 1.025 but has
generally held consistent at 1.023.
<Better at the former... Have your bf read on WWM re... and the above issues,
species>
But our water is a little low I intend to fix that much today. I know nothing
about the filtration system he has going. I just discovered that my yellow tang
is carrying Black Spot.
<Easy to cure... see...>
And I think that my one surviving domino as ich.
<Bad...>
I've read about treating the black spot and a little on the white spot ich and
its my understanding the shrimp don't get ich (is this true?).
<Correct, only fishes>
But what about our starfish? Can it get ich? And from everything I've read they
are VERY vulnerable to any changes how do I go about treatment with the
starfish?
<The fishes have to be removed, treated elsewhere...>
I've read tidbits on how to handle the ich with quarantine and freshwater dips
and keeping them out of the main tank for at least a month to insure its gone,
that medicated treatments are never completely invert safe and hardly every
REALLY work.
<A good summary. It's obvious you have a quick, sharp mind, are able to
focus...>
So what do I do? My domino is dieing I'm sure of it... one already has...and now
this one won't eat either. HELP!!! My boyfriend works to much to help much so I
have to figure this out on my own or I fear we will lose our tank.
<... See the above, WWM again, consider buying a small (ten gallon or so)
treatment tank... letting the main one go fallow (sans fish hosts), and
developing and adhering to a strict quarantine policy for all incoming livestock
henceforth. Bob Fenner>
Infected Tank??? 6/20/07
Hi Crew,
<Cindy>
Bob, Anthony and Eric. Thanks for all your help in the past. I have
successfully, with your assistance as well as the help of a wonderful and
financially supportive Husband, built a beautiful Seahorse Paradise over the
past year. I find myself once again thrown into a learning curb (hard lesson). I
have a 120-Gallon Oceanic with trickle filter and sump system. I use the sump as
a refugium, set up with live sand and Chaeto Algae's. I have 100+ lbs. of live
rock, 3-4 inch sand and Aragonite mixed bed. Corals include LPS' mostly, few
leathers (don't like my nitrate issues) and two plating Montiporas. My water
perimeters are Ammonia 0, even with deaths in the tank, Nitrites 0, PH 8.3,
Nitrates 20-40,
<Mmmm>
Only drops below 20 right after water changes. I do water changes of 20% once
weekly. I vacuum substrate daily of debris and food waste (which accounts for
another 20% weekly). I know the nitrates are high for corals. Bob had improved
them greatly with the suggestion of the sump and thickening the sand bed.
<May want to add more still>
I have a seahorse set-up, which requires extreme feeding circumstances
<And hard to accomplish both in large/r systems... getting enough food to the
horses...>
(any other nitrate lowering suggestions would help). The real problem is the
latest additions to my tank were not, AS ADVERTISED, Tank Raised. I find myself
losing Ocean Rider Seahorses;
<Bunk!>
I have successfully kept for a year. Pete Giwojna thinks the tank is possibly
infected with Amyloodinium or Uronema.
<REAL trouble>
My question to you is.... with Corals mentioned above, 8 Seahorses remaining,
12+ Peppermint Shrimp, 12+ Astrea Snails, 12+ Scarlet crabs, 3 Banggai
Cardinals, 1 Jawfish Goby and a bio load to die for, How Do I treat the Tank? I
am ready to destroy a years worth of work and thousands of $$ to Nuke the tank
in order to reset with all fake ingredients for Seahorse safety. I don't know
what else to do. I can treat seahorses, corals, live rock and sand all separate
if need be, but what will assure me I will not re-infest everything when
introducing back to main tank. What should I discard i.e., cleaning crew,
Macro's, etc? Please help. I have to get this system back in line before I lose
the rest of my stock. I have searched your site and read through all my books
(mostly from you guys) but as you can see, I have a pretty isolated problem,
which is going to take the expertise of several professionals in different
fields. Thanks for being there and for your advice even if it means starting
over.
Cindy
<A bunch of trouble... but I would remove all the fishes to other quarters and
treat with (sequentially, one, then the other) an intermediate (moving the
fishes to likely two sub-systems... one for the horses, the other for the other
fishes... for maint. issues), a pH-adjusted FW bath and formalin immersion (see
WWM re) and two weeks later Chloroquine per here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm... We (you, I, PeteG) can/should
"chat" re this process
if you feel uncomfortable. Bob Fenner>
Likelihood of disease transfer from retail stores/ fellow hobbyists (not
fish or corals) 5/27/07
Greetings Crew - ' gotta question.
<Hopefully I'll have an answer>
How likely is it to have disease or parasites like ich bug transferred from LR
rubble, macro algae such as Gracilaria?
<"Anything wet" can transfer... depending on source...>
I have never had any type of disease or pest and I would like to keep it that
way. All my problems come or identified in my QT process for fish and corals.
However I realize the likelihood of this luck continuing is diminishing and I
just might have screwed up.
I do not usually QT macro algae, inverts or LR from hobbyists/retail stores ( I
do QT LR bought online) - I just don't know what I should be looking for out of
the obvious- but I have learned my lesson.
I bought some LR rubble and Gracilaria from a local retailer to seed my
refugiums and realized that I saw a particular type of Tang that is usually
prone to ich in the tank with the Gracilaria and LR rubble. The tang did not
have ich but I know this store has
<I've never occasioned one who hadn't>
had bouts of ich before so
it got me thinking.
I believe most retailers online or local have had experiences with ich and with
most of their tanks being interconnected the parasite could spread everywhere.
<Can be, yes>
Usually when I get LR from a hobbyist I usually cycle the rock again but there
have been times when I have dumped in stuff for hobbyist I consider as a trusted
source.
The refugiums are not online so I could run them fallow for 3-4 weeks but that
would be such a pain.
Am I justified in being concerned or am I just panicking unnecessarily?
Thanks
<Mmmm, other than relying on research, picking the better/best species,
specimens, prophylactic dips/baths, and quarantine... Bob Fenner>
I think I have a parasite 5/12/07
Hello, My name is Dawn. I have had a saltwater tank for 3 years now.... All
was going great till now! I am not great with the names of the fish so forgive
me if I am wrong. I had a clown, a firetail, a blue fin damsel, and one other- I
don't know the name. I also had two crabs, one cleaner shrimp and two snails. I
have a 50 gal tank. All the fish were small. I suddenly got ick, I think. A crab
died with days after getting him. Then with in a month one fish, don't know the
name got sick and died quickly. Then my buddy the clown got sick. I treated at
first with a anti fungal,
<?... why?>
then with a treatment for ick.
<What sort?>
My buddy died, and the next day my firetail died too and then my shrimp. The
tank for weeks prior to this was cloudy but after the last one died it suddenly
cleared beautifully. Now I only have the damsel, one crab and two snails. It has
been a month or more now... and I noticed there are these little white things
all over the glass on the inside of the tank...
<Unrelated to the cause of the fish deaths... small animals that are "living off
of" the sudden available nutrient (from the dead livestock) and their lack of
presence as predators...>
they are in the shape of rice, but extremely small. Then I noticed these spidery
things on the glass with a single dot in the middle... I thought at first it was
an algae of some kind. My daughter being curious, touched one with a straw, and
it swam! I swam like a jelly fish, all you can see on it is the dot in the
middle and a dot at the end of each leg.... some are so small you can barely see
them.... What could these things be?
<Crustaceans likely, but could be "jellies" of different sorts...>
They are all over the glass in my tank, but my last fish seems fine. Do you
think it is safe to add more fish again?
<... If your system had the "ich"... it still does...>
Or should I set up a quarantine tank and put what I have alive in there and
totally sanitize this tank?
Dawn.
<More than this... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: I think I have a parasite 5/12/07
Thank you for such a quick response. I used the antifungal at the suggestion
of the pet store in my area. They had told me it could be either ICH or Fungal
and I wanted so desperately to save my clown fish, they said it wouldn't hurt to
try both. So I did.
<See WWM re... fungal infections are exceedingly rare in marine systems>
The medicine I used to treat the ich is "Kordon RidIch+ For fresh and saltwater"
<See WWM...>
You stated if my system has ich, it still does. Is it possible for my last fish
to be OK, like it is and has been since all my others passed on?
<See where you were referred to... your system is infested>
Crustaceans? or possible jellies? Could these harm my fish? How could they have
gotten in there?
<Were always in there... just have proliferated as stated>
Thank you again for your assistance.
Dawn
<Read on my friend, read on. BobF>
Please help me with this illness! (Marine tank), Using WWM
5/9/07
Hello I hope someone can help me quick!
I have a 25 US Gallon Marine set up with live rock and sand with all the usual
hitchhikers, I have an Ocellaris Clownfish a Damselfish (Chrysiptera parasema)
and a Starry Dragonet, I have just lost my beloved Circled Dragonet whom I named
Froggy as he looked like a little frog to me, you must understand I have not
taken the death of Froggy lightly and am really upset, I only had him a week
after rescuing him from my local shop where he wasn't getting enough to eat as
he was in a bare tank. My local store assured me they QT all their new arrivals
so I put them in my tank (A mistake I will never ever make again!!)
<A comment... all such quarantine protocols MUST include an absolutely strict
separation of all new livestock, water, gear... Something very few outfits have
proven capable of>
My Damsel started to show signs of ich so I set up a QT tank using the old
Aquaclear poly sleeve from my main set up for bio media.
<Mmm, and this "won't last" am sure you know>
I treated the Damsel with Cuprazin from Waterlife and after a week of battling
to keep the ammonia down in QT (I assume the treatment killed the good bacteria)
<Yes>
I placed him back in the main tank as he was looking much better.
<... no... MUST need be treated for a good two weeks...>
After a while I purchased Froggy and put him in the main tank (BIG mistake I
know) after a few days of him being perfectly happy he stopped swimming about,
became lethargic and started to breathe heavily, when he did move he was
flicking but I couldn't see any spots on him, later his breathing was laboured
and he seemed to be choking on nothing.
Froggy deteriorated quickly and died today before I could get the QT tank
ammonia free :-(,
<Can not be done... serial dilution is about the best one can do>
I have been doing water changes and have replaced the Aquaclear poly sleeve
again with the one from my main tank, I am really struggling to get the tank to
cycle
<Won't, can't with a therapeutic dose present...>
I've tried putting in old substrate and filter media but its still not working!
By the way I ran carbon for a couple of days to get rid of the old treatment
before changing the sleeve again.
Upon closer inspection of Froggy after his death I noticed tiny white speckles
on his little body and also my Clownfish is covered in a dusting of what look
like tiny white spots,
<A dusting...? Might be Amyloodinium...>
he is not acting sick, no flicking or change in respiration rate. I am at a loss
as to what this illness is. I thought Froggy had Velvet due to his difficulty
breathing.
<Yes, possibly>
I intend to move all 3 occupants to QT as soon as the tank has cycled and leave
the tank fallow for however long you recommend?
<Posted>
Would I be able to increase the temperature safely in the main tank without
harming the creatures that came in on the live rock (I have no Corals or Shrimps
etc) also how high should I raise the temperature and for how long?
<Posted...>
Whilst in QT I will feed my Starry Dragonet on frozen (defrosted) Mysis and
Krill which he devours with gusto!
Is there anything I can do in the meantime? Dips? Or will this stress the fish
out and make them more sick than they already were?
<Posted.....>
ARGHHH I don't know what to do!!!
<Read>
What should I do to treat this illness I'd rather not use chemicals but will do
if I have to.
I will never take the word of the store again and will always QT my livestock in
the future.
I will be moving home soon and upgrading to a larger tank everything will be
quarantined again just in case the stress of the move causes any more illnesses
to surface.
Do you think a Cleaner shrimp will help in the future and perhaps a Cleaner
goby?
I know not to get a Cleaner Wrasse I've seen too many looking ill in the shops
and heard of them dying in captivity too due to lack of food.
Please help me its driving me mad and I don't want to lose any more fish as I'm
already heartbroken over little Froggy.
I have tried reading all the FAQ's on the possible illnesses but as I'm unsure
what I'm looking for it has just left me with a bad headache.
By the way I buried Froggy in the garden (silly I know) I couldn't bear to put
him in the bin or anything.
Thanks again for a very helpful informative site and I hope you can help me.
Faye
<Have just skipped down... Please... learn to/use the search tool, indices on
WWM... You obviously care a great deal and have a good (intelligent,
discerning...) mind... Take the time to review:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
the articles, FAQs files on Marine Parasitic Disease... the linked files
there... to formulate one good (but flexible) plan on how to proceed here. There
is just too much to relate here w/o referring you/folks in this way. Bob Fenner>
Overwhelmed and worried, SW parasitic dis. 4/19/07
Hello Crew,
<Good morning from England>
I am new to aquariums. And I openly admit that I didn't understand the
importance of a quarantine tank at the beginning of all of this, as my tank is
as small as a quarantine tank already. I believe now that I am paying the price
for my stupid mistake. Lesson learned.
<Good>
Anyway, I have read tonnes and tonnes of question/answers on your site and am
quite sure that my two clownfish are infected with diseases, which alarms me
greatly. What a difficult hobby this is!
<Not difficult; challenging, engaging and requiring work on the aquarists part.
But overall rewarding>
But so beautiful!
<Bingo!>
We have a 12 gallon Eclipse tank with a few corals, two small clowns, 1 coral
beauty angel and a cleaner shrimp.
<This is too small for a Centropyge’s long-term requirements and health>
We will not be adding any more fish to this.
<But removing hopefully>
Our water levels are good, although the ammonia spiked yesterday to very
dangerous levels due to die-off on new cured live rocks.
<If this Live Rock was cured it should not have introduced noticeable amounts of
ammonia. The curing process removes this for you. Check with your supplier on
this>
We quickly did two 33% water changes, 6 hours apart from each other, to ensure
that everything would get back to safe levels. Currently, NO2 is at 0ppm, NO3
is medium at 5ppm, pH is about 8.2, and ammonia is under 0.25ppm.
The angelfish was exhibiting odd behaviour a few days ago, such as hitting
himself on the live rock, but otherwise seems perfectly fine. He eats like a
swine and swims all over the place. We called him Jetpack. Due to his hitting
himself, his colours don't seem as bright anymore, and some seems to have rubbed
off. Is that due to him being stressed with us adding the corals? Or is he sick
with something?
<He is likely stressed from a degree of ammonia poisoning and the cramped
conditions>
Back to the main reason of this email: the clowns. The smallest clown appears to
have air-bubble-like things all along his back and fins. They stick out only
slightly from the skin, and are minuscule. In certain lighting they don't appear
to be there. When the ammonia spiked, I knew something was wrong because this
clown nearly lost all of his colour, which made me immediately check the water
conditions. Oddly enough, the second clown looked normal and had no colour
change. Does this mean that the first clown is already very weak and ill with
something?
<Would indicate so>
Every so often his black strips seem to fade to orange at the top of his back,
where these air bubble things are situated. He eats fine, and is a joy to watch,
but this
colouring/bubbling worries me. He looks like this:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/DiseasePIX/DSC_0140.jpeg on your website. For my
readings this is Marine Ich AKA: Cryptocaryon irritans.
<Correct, seems you have identified the cause, now to continue reading for the
treatment. Also the faded colour is likely stress markings brought on by the
disease>
The second clown appeared to have a raised line under his skin on his side.
We weren't worried about this, as it could just be a fish peculiarity, but this
raised (scar-like thing) grew a fuzziness to it, as if the scar had opened up
and his skin was flaking off (appearing white and fuzzy) upon this line. We
assumed that he was okay. Upon reading more on your site, I fear this is
Brooklynellosis. His breathing is heavy, and he spends a lot of time near the
bottom of the tank. Also, his fins are frayed.
Am I correct with my diagnoses?
<
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm - Most likely by the
limited description. Continue with the treatments described – Formalin.>
The cleaner shrimp is as happy as can be, and picks over the coral beauty
whenever he gets a chance. The clownfish aren't, seemingly, big enough to be
picked over yet.
I have read so much information on both these diseases that I feel very
overwhelmed. Here are my questions, although, I do understand that the answers
are posted all over the web, and especially on your site, I am just so
completely overwhelmed and worried I will make a mistake.
1. Can I quarantine the clownfish together in a 5 or ten gallon tank (I have
both sizes. Which would be better?)
<The two separate diseases dictate the use of different treatments so I would
use two tanks for the two fish>
2. Does the angelfish require quarantine as well? Can Jetpack be quarantined
with the clownfish?
<Would not do this, she apparently doesn’t show any clear signs of a definitive
disease>
3. What is the best way to treat the Ich? How do I go about this? How long
should they be treated for?
<Posted on the web numerous times, plus on the URL that you already cited>
4. What is the best way to treat Brooklynella? How do I go about this? How long
should they be treated for?
<Formalin, but I have posted the URL above>
5. Should I specially care for my show tank in any way? Or is leaving the
cleaner shrimp, live rock, live sand and corals in there and treating it like
normal good enough?
<Just continue with normal maintenance, no more additions though>
6. Should I fresh water dip all the fish? I have read that clownfish respond
negatively to this, and I don't want to further weaken them, and worsen their
condition.
7. Any other recommendations?
<More reading needed. It can be overwhelming, but it’s relatively the same, just
re-arranged. The effort is worth it when your pet pulls through, plus we have a
responsibility as keepers>
Thank you very much for your time.
<Thank you for a well constructed, well spelled and punctuated piece. Hope we’ve
helped, the most help for your case is penned on the site however. Olly>
Alexandra.
Re: Only Damsel fishes with ich? 4/17/04
Thanks Bob,
<Welcome Rachael>
Day three and the damsel has no more visible indications of ich. The clown,
however continues to eat like a champ, but the spots seem to diminish and then
reappear en masse the next morning.
<Mmm, very likely Cryptocaryon on the basis of this trait>
The HT is only a 5 gal, as the three other tanks prevent much more aquaspace
in my home.
I have not QT the PJ cardinal yet (tight spacing).
Should I return the damsel to the display tank after a week (TBD on the clown),
and then sterilize the HT and QT the PJ cardinal?
<... please... read... re marine parasitic disease on WWM... All need to be
removed, treated... the infested tank either sterilized or left fallow...>
My worry is that if the clown has not shown any improvement, I would hate to put
the cardinal in the same sick tank, if he isn't showing any signs.
<Bingo. BobF>
Thanx!!
Rachael
Persistent Ich/Crypt – 04/16/07
Hello Crew
<Harry.>
Hope all is well.
<Thanks.>
I learned much from the great information you provide.
<Awesome.>
I wish I would have found you sooner.
<Me too.>
Due to my stupidity and trust of my LFS (never again). I know, I know lessen
learned the hard way, I will always QT anything I purchase going forward.
<Then all is not lost.>
I introduced my display tank to Ich.
<Uh-oh.>
At initial outbreak, I treated all my fish,
<With.>
and kept my tank fallow for 6 weeks.
<Good.>
I reintroduced my fish after the fallow period to only be infected again.
<Mmm...wasn't eradicated while animals were in display.>
I am currently treating all my fish (3 ocellaris clowns and a chevron tang) in a
QT tank with Cupramine at 0.5 mg/l for 14 days.
<Careful, surgeons have less than favorable reactions to copper at times. There
are other treatments, tactics; see below links.>
I am planning on leaving my main tank fallow for a minimum of 3 months.
<Yes I usually recommend at least 8 weeks (2months).>
I have a 75 gallon reef with 120lbs of live rock, 3 inches of sand, 1 blood red
fire shrimp, various snails, crabs, polyps and Xenia all of which I know can be
carriers.
<In the short term yes, from one system to another. But if the crypt. parasites
are kept separate from the fish hosts, they will eventually die.>
I know people believe that once Ich is in your tank it will always be there. I
don't believe that from what I read, but who knows.
<You are right, by definition a parasite cannot exist without a host.>
How do I eradicate the Ich from my display tank short of removing all the
inverts and filling it with fresh water and basically killing everything.
<They will eventually die without the fish hosts...but the fish in quarantine
need to be attended to as well or you will re-introduce them.>
I need advice on permanent eradication no matter how drastic even if I have to
start over (last resort). I never want to see Ich again. Any advice or help
will be greatly appreciated.
<Harry this article will answer all of your questions. It is a two parter, the
link to the second article is linked at the bottom of the first one:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php .>
Regards,
<Welcome.>
Harry
<Adam J.>
Re: Persistent Ich/Crypt - 04/17/07
Thank you for the quick reply.
<Welcome.>
At initial outbreak I treated all fish with Instant Ocean Lifeguard, active
ingredient is 1-chloro-2,2,5,5-tetramethyl-4-imidazolidinone, for the full 5
days recommended.
<I prefer formalin and freshwater dips and lots of water changes; in a
quarantine tank of course not the display.>
They were ich free for 6 weeks in QT.
<<Not "free" just cycled off... RMF>>
I know tangs are sensitive to copper, is hyposalinity a better treatment
option?
<In this specific case if I had to chose one it would be the hypo; for the
details on what's effective, what's not see the articles I linked you to.>
and for how long do I treat with hypo 6 weeks?
<#5 In the article I linked.>
thanks
Harry
<Adam J.>
Disease question, parasitic, marine 4/16/07
Hi,
<Hello there>
I recently lost a tang due to some disease or infection. All water parameters
were good/normal. I first noticed yesterday, what looked to be Popeye on one
eye of the fish. Closer look today revealed symptoms similar to Velvet: rapid
gilling, started flashing a couple days ago, body covered with tell-tale
powdered look.
<Mmm... perhaps Amyloodinium/Velvet?>
I've had this fish in a QT since I bought it a total of two weeks now. My
question is would it be possible for this fish to appear healthy for almost two
weeks and then come down with this type of disease?
<Subclinical infestation... reproducing, rejoining its host... in numbers... the
host weakening...>
If he was carrying something from the fish store, would it take this long to
show up? Thanks for any insight.
<Can, yes... part of the rationale/use of quarantine, eh? Bob Fenner>
Tim
Re: Disease question, parasitic, marine 4/17/04
Bob,
<Tim>
Thanks for the reply and input.
<Welcome>
Yes, definitely a case-maker for quarantining your fish. I also usually dip my
fish before adding them to the QT. This time I did not and, another lesson
learned...
<Ah, yes>
This brings me to my next question - what is your recommendation for a good
treatment in a freshwater dip mixture?
<Posted...>
I have used methylene blue in the past, but I'm wondering if there is something
even more effective.
<Yes... depending... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again,
Tim
Battling Parasites With An Extended Fallow Period - 04/12/2007
I have had a problem with a 200 gal well established marine tank for two
years, but has had serious problems repeatedly with disease for the last year.
<Not fun at all, but it can be a learning experience if you look at it
optimistically!>
Ich and what now I think are parasites of some kind. I have attempted to run
the tank fallow and have waited 4 to 6 weeks. The tank is a fish only tank,
now without fish at the moment. It is beautifully decorated with live rock and
deep sand bed of about 5 inch. The tank is covered with copepods much
more than I've ever seen in any tank and is the reason why I'm thinking there
may also be some type of parasite causing problems.
<Well, I don't think that the increased population of copepods is indicative of
parasites causing problems. Rather, I think that it's a sort of positive
side-effect of not having any predators (your fishes!) in the tank! I see this
as a good thing! One of the reasons it's a great idea to avoid stocking
newly-set-up reef systems with fishes for a while is that it gives natural food
sources, such as copepods and amphipods, a chance to establish themselves. Yes,
there are parasitic 'pods out there, but they are not all that common, in my
experience. I'll bet that your seeing an explosion of a benign population of
these creatures. Nonetheless, your fallow period is a good idea.>
In each attempt to add fish, many small nodules appear on the skin followed by
Ick. In-tank treatment with Rid-Ich helps the Ich, but not enough to overcome
the primary nodules I'm seeing on the fish body. This occurs with any type of
fish I've tried.
<I'm very skeptical about the effectiveness of so-called "reef safe" remedies.
Treating in the display tank is problematic at best, IMO, for a variety of
reasons. The better approach is to remove the fishes (as you have done), treat
them with an appropriate medication (I like copper, but it's not for everyone),
and a protracted fallow period in the display. Parasitic organisms tend to do
poorly when deprived of their hosts!>
Question is, if I leave this tank run fallow for 90 days will this starve out
all possible parasites as well as the Ich?
<It's impossible to ascertain if this is 100% effective, but a very long fallow
period will definitely reduce the populations of protozoa and parasites in the
display, perhaps giving an otherwise healthy fish a chance to resist infection.
In my opinion, such a "two front" approach (fallow tank and treatment of the
affected fishes elsewhere) is the best way to combat such diseases.>
Or, will I need to tear down and start again?
<In some particularly serious cases, this may be the only way. In my experience,
very protracted fallow periods generally do the trick...Patience!>
Or, is there anything I can put in the tank that will eradicate all possible
parasites?
<Not without the potential for collateral damage, as far as I'm concerned...not
worth it.>
Thanks so much for your help.
<My pleasure...Best of luck with your battle! Regards, Scott F.>
Help!!! Parasitic reef tank 4/11/07
Okay crew, I have followed proper procedure and read through all the great
info you offer, BUT still cannot come to any conclusion as to what am dealing
with here. I have a 20 gallon reef tank and what I thought originally might be
ich, (appears not to be), and then Oodinium, (am not sure) is persistently
attacking a few fish.
<Not Amyloodinium... as your fishes would all highly likely be dead>
The kicker is this. Only some fish show signs and everyone who does show
signs has it has had it for months and continues to eat and swim about with
little or no sign of agitation. I have too many fish I know, I do water changes
every 5-7 days and have only the slightest amount of nitrate because of
this. Right now I have...
Engineer Goby
Tiger Sleeper Goby
Blackcap Basslet
Blue Blanquillo
<Neat, the tilefish?>
Talbot's Damsel
Whipfin Fairy Wrasse
I also have a Cleaner Shrimp and about a dozen soft corals, zoos, and star polyp
colonies.
Before you read me my rights about the engineer, blue Blanquillo, or others
getting too large OR having too many fish in my system, I assure you I have a
ton of hiding spots and nobody nips fins or fights. Previously I had a fire
clown who chased everyone and an Allen's damsel who was his first mate in that
regard. They've been sent to spend spring break in a buddies empty quarantine
tank until I get my 90 up and running in June (the future home of at least the
engineer goby and blue Blanquillo).
The issue is what I originally thought was ich. I used Garlic Extreme made by
Kent at the suggestion of a friend who had a similar problem. I saw positive
improvement but I still saw trouble spots on the basslet and Talbot damsel that
may have been secondary fungal/bacteria as well. I then bought the Cleaner
Shrimp who cleans the Blackcap all the time as well as the blue Blanquillo, but
the small spots are persistent. I also tried to Maracyn twice.
<Not efficacious here>
Once in small doses for four days, with no success. Waited two weeks then hit
it hard with 2 tablets a day for four more, again no result. Im not sure am
dealing with Oodinium because the Blackcap has had it for months but eats fine,
swims freely seemingly unbothered. Same with the Talbot's Damsel. The Fairy
Wrasse at one time had it but after careful inspection, appears to be completely
free of any visible parasites. The engineer has never had any spots, the tiger
sleeper either.
If its Oodinium wouldn't these guys be wiped out?
<Yes>
I haven't lost a fish in four months and everything I read basically said doom
well before that, surely by the passing of this amount of time and the last
addition was the Blanquillo last month. Everyone else has been in the tank for
at least three + months.
I would send pictures but all I have right now is a bunk picture phone which you
wouldn't be able to see the spots. I know its hard to diagnose without seeing,
but any ideas? possible reef safe things I can do?
<Likely either Cryptocaryon (90 some percent likely here) or simple irritation
from the cnidarians chemically testing each other... and there are no "reef
safe" and effective medicines>
It doesn't look like velvet either but I think it could be a combination of
things.
I have now set up a quarantine tank (obviously too little too late) but with the
coral thriving and the fish living I do not want to break the whole thing
down. Sorry for the length of this email. Thanks in advance to the crew for
sharing your combined wealth of knowledge...
-jp in SC
<Glad to share... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/reefparasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files above... Likely best for you to "live with this", not
introduce any new fishes... Bob Fenner>
SW protozoan prob.s - 4/7/07
Hey Bob, Hope you are feeling better.
<Thank you, yes... Generally only get "real sick" once every several years>
The kids got over the cold quick, but my husband and I still have it We did
not get a chance to visit any LFS since we all felt like poop.
<A shame>
We did have quite any experience on the way home.
About an hour outside of Phoenix, the car in front of us ran over a 4 ft piece
of metal that went through our windshield!!
<Yeeikes!>
Pretty darn scary I tell ya!!
The weather over here keeps fluctuating and I have had to turn on the AC so
that I could keep my tank regulated. Saturday I left the house for a while and
the AC was not on because it had been turned off for a few days because it got
cold. While we were gone, the house heated up and the tank was 85.3 when I
came home. I immediately put a fan on it and got two 2 liter bottles that
were frozen in it and brought it down to 84. By the evening I had gotten
it down to 82.3. On Monday while were watching the
Ohio state game, I noticed
my fish start acting different, stressed. I started looking at them and they
were covered in white spots.
<... stress-induced Crypt...>
I had a hippo tang in the QT a few months that had ich and had been
treated. the last fish that came out of QT were wild true percs. Within an
hour 7 fish were dead.
<Likely Velvet...>
out of 21 fish, I have 7 left. All spread out in 3 10g tanks. they have been
treated with rid ich and copper. I believe with the research that I have done
I had saltwater ich and Amyloodinium at the same time.
<Yes...>
I have read that the Oodinium strain lives without a host for up to 2 weeks.
<Mmm, some about twice this long>
How long should I wait to put the fish back in that survive?
<A month or so>
I picked up a product last night called ich attach that is 100% organic and says
its reef safe. The active ingredient is Naphthoquinone. The guy at the LFS
said he has used it in his reef tank and it is invert safe and coral safe. Any
experience/thoughts on this product?
<None direct... but am querulous>
Any insight on your part is greatly appreciated. Hope you are feeling
better. Sorry we didn't get to meet. Donielle
<Perhaps in the future. Glad to hear/read you're all safe... My opinions re such
cures are posted on WWM. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Disease in tank. Possibly Velvet... no 3/29/07
Hi all. I recently have had 3 clownfish die from a disease. I am assuming
either Brook or Velvet.
<Could be Cryptocaryon... even other protozoans are not uncommon... and
spottiness... may not portend any pathogen involvement at all...>
The only symptoms I could see were
rapid breathing and loss of appetite. No excess mucus or slime was produced,
nor any white sheen on their bodies or anything else for that matter.
<Mmm... could be the rapid onset of Velvet/Amyloodinium... or environment...>
They looked perfectly healthy on the outside. It is obviously in my tank now
and I am planning for the move of everyone to my 29g QT.
This is my fish list: 4" Foxface, 3 x 2"-3" Flasher Wrasse, 3 x 2" Firefish, 3"
Dragon Goby, 3" Yellow Watchman Goby.
<Oh! These weren't killed at the same time? Is very highly unlikely Velvet>
I am planning a formalin dip for all of the fish prior to entry to the QT and
once a day for two days afterwards. I will also be treating the tank with
Cupramine. I am going to let the main tank go fallow for 2 months to be sure
all disease is gone. So, all of the above fish will be in my 29g for this
duration.
My questions are:
- The dragon goby needs sand to sift, but you shouldn't place sand in a
QT, especially when using copper, so what is my remedy for this?
<No sifting, sand for the duration of treatment>
- Are all of the above fish suited for my planned treatment?
<? Yes, carefully... with at least daily testing for copper>
I keep hearing about sensitive fish, but usually only lionfish, puffers, etc,
but I wanted to be sure first.
- Any foreseeable problems with keeping any of the above fish in my 29g
for 2 months?
<The usual nitrogenous (et al.) waste accumulation, its ill-effects...>
Anything look wrong in my plan, or anything else you would recommend to raise my
survival percentages?
<Yes... getting a good, cheap microscope... testing for what may actually not be
there... See WWM re Ed Noga's book... scopes... Bob Fenner>
Thank you for your time and help. It is most appreciated.
Mitch
Anthias with worms? Human influence opportunities... Important!
03/22/07
Hello again guys / gals. I notice my Ventralis anthias has clear /
white feces and am guessing he must have intestinal parasites.
<Ahh... so wonderful to be able to influence such young, growing
minds/awarenesses...>
I was considering different medications to use and would appreciate your input
on what would work best for my situation. The medications I am looking into are:
Fenbendazole at 7.6 Mg per gallon
Metronidazole
Praziquantel
and Paracide D
Any suggestions would be wonderful, the fish has not lost weight, however he is
obviously losing nutrients somewhere.
Thank you so much,
Brian Crenshaw
<My REAL (why not?) advice is for you instead to invest in a copy of Ed Noga's
"Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment" (expensive, I know... and have chatted w/
him re... Maybe get the fish store to buy a copy for your use as well as
theirs...) AND a QX-3...4...5? Microscope... and to LOOK here, way before
dumping such medicines on your livestock... Much knowledge, discovery awaits
you... which I'm sure (very) that you'll be sharing. BobF>
Re: Anthias with worms? 3/22/07
Hello again Bob,
Thank you for your recommendation on "Fish Disease, Diagnoses & Treatment", I
ordered it today, as well as Anthony's new "Book of Coral Propagation", and a
QX5 digital microscope.
<Ahhh! Outstanding! Heeee! I hope you won't mind, but your apparent experiences,
curious-seeking behavior reminds me a great deal of myself when I was
young/er...>
Sorry for the onslaught of E-Mails, but I trust your advice (and the crews)
over anyone else's.
<No worries... Is a pleasure to aid you>
I am still learning, however I do know enough to know not many (if any) people
in my area know enough to help me out.
<Mmm, thank goodness for the Net... and all the more opportunity for you to help
others... educate them, raise their knowledge, intelligence levels>
Wet Web Media along with your books have really helped me tremendously and I
look forward to seeing more writings from you in the future. If you would be
interested I would also love to send you a photo of the reef I have been
working so hard on.
Best regards,
Brian Crenshaw
<Please do Brian. Bob Fenner>
Copepods Killing My Fish? Unlikely 3-13-07
Hello!
<Hi>
I have a problem here. My harlequin Tuskfish and hepatus tang are sick and I
have no clue with what. The other creatures in the tank is an arc-eye hawk,
small snowflake moray eel, chocolate chip star, and an Atlantic anemone, at
least I think that's what it is.
The past couple days they (harlequin tusk and hepatus tang) have been acting
somewhat strange and yesterday morning and this morning both were covered in
white spots that looked like ich. However, by about 10:00am yesterday (when I
went back home to get a water sample to take to the local fish store) both fish
had shaken or scraped most of the spots off. <Normal lifecycle for this
parasite,
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm .>
Yesterday afternoon and evening the harlequin tusk stayed in his hiding spot and
seemed like he had difficulty breathing. <Ich effects the gills.> From the way
he is moving his gills it looks like he's gasping for breath. <A usual symptom,
action needs to be taken soon.> He was still that way this morning as well.
Here's what's very interesting. It looks like there are little white bugs on
the glass, most likely copepods (and that may be what's on the fish as well).
<Highly unlikely, think your first diagnosis is the correct one.> If you look
closely, you can see them move around and NOT with the current. They move from
place to place and change direction too so it looks like independent movement
rather than movement from the powerheads. I wiped the vast majority off of the
glass last night, but they were all back this morning as well. <Yep, sounds
like copepods.>
What can I do to restore the harlequin tusk and hepatus tang to health? <QT and
appropriate treatment. See here
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm .>
This is a relatively new tank. It's been set up for 2 months. I understand
that the copepods are/can be beneficial to the aquarium, but is it a case of too
much of a good thing?
<Unrelated to your fish's illness.>
Any help would be MUCH appreciated! Thanks a ton!!
Sincerely,
Aaron Kowal
<Need to get the fish treated for ich, which is usually copper administered in a
hospital tank. However with the tang I would treat with hyposalinity since they
are quite sensitive to copper. Check out the articles and FAQs in the marine
disease section for details.>
<Chris>
Ich problem, following WWM advice 3/13/07
You gu