Para Guard Info 7/4/05
Dear WWM Crew,
    Just was wondering if you had any info on SeaChem's' Para Guard product.  
The guy at my LFS said that it is a completely reef-safe treatment for fish and inverts and that it can help control possible ich infestations in your main tank.  Just wanted to get your thoughts on it as the only info I have on it is what's printed on the bottle.  They said that it is a good practice to use this prior to introducing any new inhabitants.  Thanks for your reply.
                                                            Jeff K
<Please read here: http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/ParaGuard_faq.html
SeaChem itself does not warrant that this product is "safe" with invertebrates. I would/do rely on quarantine, dips/baths, proper acclimation... Bob Fenner>

Fighting The Good Fight Against Parasites
Greetings!
<Hi There! Scott F. with you today!>
I believe I have an infestation of some sort in my tank which I can’t determine what. Most of my fish are breathing hard and some of them are scratching a lot though not a single spot is visible.
<Could be a parasitic disease, possibly Amyloodinium. This disease does cause rapid breathing, general sluggishness, and more of a "powdery" appearance, as opposed to dots like Ich. It's a lot more lethal, too...Fast response is important>
Nevertheless, I’m planning on moving all of my fish to separate hospital tanks and to treat them with copper (if in case I’m dealing with ich). Since this would be my first time to use copper, I have a couple of questions: would it be safe to treat
some of my fish which might be sensitive to copper, namely a juvenile Emperor Angel, B&W Heniochus, Ocellaris Clowns and a 1.5” Blue Tang?
<I'm partial to copper, but you are correct in assuming that some fishes can be sensitive to it. I'd probably avoid treating the tang with copper, and exercise caution with the Emperor. You could use a formalin based product with these fish>
The copper product that I’ll be using is sera Oodinopur, which suggests to be used at .30 ppm, which seems too high, can I use it at half dosage?
<I would follow manufacturer's instructions to the letter with any medication, especially copper. Don't "free lance" here...>
Would the copper kill all the beneficial bacteria in the filter sponge?
<Usually not too problematic. Frequent water changes and testing (to make sure that the copper stays at a proper therapeutic dose) are mandatory, however.><<RMF disagrees. Therapeutic doses of copper often depress nitrification.>>
I’m a bit apprehensive about continuing with this plan, but I’m out of options right now, unless you have any suggestions. By the way, all parameters have tested fine, and subsequent water changes have shown very little improvement on the fish, which led me to believe this is a parasitic infestation.
<My thinking too>
I would truly appreciate your response.
Sincerely, Mitch
<Well, Mitch, I'd use the "two front" approach that I frequently advocate on WWM: Treat the fish with an effective anti-parasitic treatment in a "hospital" tank, and leave the display tank "fallow", without fishes, for at least a month or so. This technique can usually do the trick! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Pounding Parasites! (Another Medication?) Chloroquine for parasites?
You guys have a great website for information!
<Glad that you find it useful! We enjoy bringing it to you every day!>
I have been battling a persistent ich infection and potential velvet to boot.  DON'T ASK. I am now a quarantine believer, but 1 fish too late.  
<Well, better late than never. As long as you learned your lesson, the fish did not die in vain...>
I run a protein skimmer, UV sterilizer, and a canister filter (convenient for carbon, etc. when needed) along with two other powerheads for circulation in the tank (100 g acrylic).
I had previously treated quarantined fish with a round of CopperSafe for 14 days to an apparent cure and allowed my main tank to go fallow for 4 weeks.  After returning the fish for a 4 week disease-free period, I purchased 2 more fish (purple tang and Foxface) from a very reliable dealer that quarantines and dates their fish arrival (fish had been in same tank for months), therefore did not freshwater dip due to stress issues that I had previously experienced.
<I have a bad feeling about this...>
After a 2 week quarantine in my own tank (disease free) I added the fish to my main tank (100 gallon FOWLR with 60 lbs LR).  After another 2 weeks I suddenly had a pearl-scale butterfly stop eating and dead the next day with no other outward signs of disease.  1 week later purple tang and Foxface had signs of gill problems (gulping air and increased breathing), followed by a couple days later with external signs of ich on the purple tang.  Tank chemistry was great, temp constant.
<I'm wondering if this was Amyloodinium, not ich. The "gulping" and difficulty in breathing are symptomatic of either advanced ich or Amyloodinium...>
Now my 20 gallon quarantine was not big enough for the fish (and my wife not tolerant enough for more tanks)....soooo .... I remove all invertebrates and live rock to my 20 gallon (I have no plans for corals) and treated the main tank with CopperSafe. (I realize you are cringing at this point, but this was a very calculated move that was made with much thought).
<I wouldn't have done it this way, but I can certainly understand your reasons for doing this...>
Problem solved.. ich gone after 3 weeks of measured copper treatment.. removed all traces of copper and 2 weeks later replace the live rock, followed by invertebrates to the tank.  All is great for about a month and suddenly had ich again and a dusky appearance on the purple tang (maybe velvet).  Repeat the above with lowering spg to 1.016 and added a cleaner goby and am using Cupramine this time instead of CopperSafe.
<Grr...>
Am now finished with the three week treatment using appropriate daily measurements of copper levels (as before).  All fish are eating great, look full bodied and healthy, except for lateral line with the purple tang (not surprising given the copper).
<Good observation on your part! One of the potential side effects of copper with tangs...>
I will remove Cupramine for the next two weeks with PolyFilter and carbon, increase the salinity, and then return the live rock, followed by the invertebrates once I see the pods living well.  On the upside the 20 gallon quarantine has great pod growth with no fish to eat them.
<Good to hear that!>
Other than the downside of treating my main tank can I do anything better? This is not a scenario I want to keep repeating.
<Agreed...I might leave the tank fallow for a longer period of time- like 6 weeks or more. This can really disrupt the life cycle of the causative protozoa.>
Given my prior persistence of parasite and the nagging fear of an ongoing velvet infection will I get any advantage from additional treatment with Chloroquine biphosphate?
<I'm skeptical at this point. Could do more harm than good.>
What is your opinion on using Chloroquine biphosphate?  Can it be removed from the tank with carbon after 10 days?
<Carbon/Polyfilter an remove many medications effectively..>
It is very difficult to find any good information on Chloroquine, since few people seemed to have used it much. Thanks for your help.  Have a great day!
Nick Lukacs
<Well, Nick personally have not used the stuff, either. I am more inclined to go fallow longer than I would be to "nuke" the tank with yet another medication. Tough on the fauna in the tank, as well as the fish. Short of thoroughly breaking down the tank and starting over, I'd go for the longer fallow period, myself. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Parasite control products
Dear Bob
Here is one reply on your site.
I know there is a lot of products out there that do not work but are product will remove parasites and is totally reef safe, if you would like some samples to test let us know and we will send them right out.
Again thank you for your time.
<Will post your notes for others perusal. Unfortunately I have no marine systems up and going at this time. Bob Fenner>
Parasite Control
Bob,
Have you ever used any "reef/invertebrate" safe parasite control products that were effective in eliminating/control marine ich?
<Have tested them a bit... myself... and have many anecdotal reports from others...>
The products that I am referring to specifically (based on the manufacturer's literature) are:
(1) Chem-Marin Stop Parasites
(2) Kick-Ich
Both of those products are touted as being effective in Ich removal and safe for use in a reef aquarium with inverts and coral.
<Yes, I know of these claims>
Your experience or thoughts on the subject and these products would be appreciated..
Thanks, Rocky Phillips
<Do know of other credible users that assert success using both of these... however, don't consider them completely safe or effective myself. Bob Fenner>

Tetra's Antiparasitic Food
Hi Craig please.  Bet you are sorry that you mentioned you had a source for the Tetra medicated Antiparasitic food!  I have searched to no avail.  Please tell me and the other thousand people reading this your secret.  Do you recommend using this food while the fish are still in quarantine? Thanks
<No problem! Yes, I used it while in QT and afterward until those last few spots were history. I like it for the time after moving out of the QT which is stressful and can cause another outbreak.  Seachem also makes a Metronidazole product for soaking your own food. To get Tetra medicated food call Bill at Aquarium Warehouse in Olympia, Washington. His number is (360)357-9654.
Tell him I sent you. Let me know if you need more assistance! You can get the SeaChem product from our WetWebMedia.com sponsors.  Craig>

Parasitic infection
Good morning Anthony (Bob, etc.)!
<cheers, mate>
I am still dealing with a parasitic infection in my main tank. I wanted to give you an update and ask for a bit more advice. Since you have provided such good help in the past and I value your input - here I am :-)
<thanks kindly>
First, the setup. 55 gallon SW tank, 50 lbs live rock, 1 small green carpet anemone, 1 maroon clown, 1 scissor-tail goby, 1 yellow tail damsel, 1 valentini puffer, 1 banana wrasse. Current tank conditions: salinity 1.020 (lowered to fight parasites), Temp 82 F (raised to fight parasites), PH 8.3, Ammonia 0, Nitrates 10, Nitrites .1. Berlin skimmer, canister filter, 25 watt U/V with small enough flow to effect a parasitic kill.
<very well>
The background. Tang died of what looked suspiciously like velvet. Signs appeared on Toby and wrasse. Toby with spots, cloudy eyes, listlessness and thick fins - wrasse with elevated breathing and a lot of reef scratching but no visible infection. And, yes, I now know the necessity of a QT ;-). 
<heehee... we are getting our friends trained <G>>
At the advice of the LFS guy I began treating with Rally and Kick-Ick.
<yep... bunk>
After way too many doses the puffer was only marginally better and the wrasse was still a heavy breather with non-stop itching. So, I broke down and set up a hospital tank/QT. 20 gallon containing nothing more than a few chem. inert hiding places. 
<excellent>
Again at the advice of the LFS guy I dosed the QT with chelated copper - yes, against your warning of copper possibly hurting scaleless fish. He explained that the only way to rid them of this is with a strong med like copper. Well, if you consider killing them and getting rid of the infection then he was right!
<yes... risky. But as they say, "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes." Ha!>
Well, it actually did not come to this but here's what happened... I dismantled the whole reef (argh), chased the fish out of every little crack they found to hide in, caught the Toby and wrasse, fresh water dipped them, and finally deposited them into the copper poisoned QT. After 6 hours the puffer was all but unconscious and the wrasse was wedged in a hiding place not moving. Deciding that the puffer was close to his farewell performance I quickly extracted her and transported to the main tank. After a minute a 100% recovery occurred and she was swimming around happily pecking at the reef. 
<yes... copper sensitive fish are funny that way... and your LFS guy is a turnip>
All signs of the velvet gone - eyes clear, fins healthy, energetic, normal breathing, no spots. Actually, I an betting that the FW dip effected this change. 
<very much agreed>
Figuring that the wrasse was a scaled fish I left him in the QT for another 2 hours. 
<agreed reasonable>
On feeding he refused to move from the spot he had been in for hours. I chased him out and he just sat limp in the tank. Well, emergency extraction #2 and plop - back to the main tank. I hated to do this because I detest having to reconstruct the reef. Ya know, it was always "just perfect" before the re-construction and never quite the same after. Anyway, better that than hurting the little guy - I figured that something was terribly wrong in the QT. The wrasse has perked back up fully but continues to breath heavily (although he is constantly in motion - the energy is incredible) and scratch. The moral of the story, never listen to the LFS guy (at least mine) - seems he just wants to kill my fish to sell me new ones.
<"no comment for the press at this time">
Here's the questions. You recommended (Anthony) to use formalin in the QT but I cannot find a place which sells that med or will ship it to California - guess it's a controlled substance. Do you have any recommendations on what I should use for these fish? 
<do see about buying locally or mail ordering "Quick Cure" by Aquarium Products. A very popular and common med that will fit the bill>
Do you recommend QTing and treating all five fish in the QT and letting the main tank go fallow or just the ones showing symptoms - the others are seeming just fine after 4 weeks of this curse. 
<normally all as stated above, but I'm wondering if just the stressed ones for now and still 4 weeks separation>
I hate to separate the clown from his anemone, he'll have a fit. I unfortunately cannot give daily FW dips due to their many escape holes in the reef. Tell me if I'm going the wrong way here - My thought at this point is to monitor the 2 fish for signs of recurrence. Keep water healthy, possibly further adjust temp and salinity (how far can I go safely with their tank mates?), use vitamin supplements with feeding
<all good>
and possibly garlic (opinions?) 
<weakly effective at best>
and maybe all a few cleaner shrimp. 
<not a solution but cool hardy creatures. Your wrasse will eventually eat them though and the Toby might pluck their antennae>
If the start to go "down" the QT them in unmedicated water and make it easy to net them for daily FW dips. 
<excellent>
Then, if necessary, add meds to the QT to continue treatment is not improving. Is this OK?
<agreed>
Final question... I found a web site called LiveAquaria.com which sells fish, etc. 
<ughh... I never recommend mail order fish>
It is part of the Drs. Foster & Smith company/site. I have talked to their people and they seemed well put together and knowledgeable. 
<hmmm... do check the big message boards for consumers who have had buying experience with them>
Have you have any experience with them? 
<alas no, and not likely either>
I ask because of the above situation I am now boycotting my one and only LFS and have no other place to go. Of course I will not be adding any fish until this horrible problem is under control.
<what part of Cali are you from? Close to what major city? Perhaps we can locate a good aquarium society or big city with stores within reasonable driving distance. You can call ahead to inquire about fresh shipments before making the drive>
Thank you all for the wonderful advice and the great service that you provide. Don't know what a novice hobbyist would do without you!!
In your debt, John
<it is an honor and a pleasure. Anthony Calfo>