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FAQs about
Overflows, Bulkheads/Through-puts, Holes vs. Boxes...
Troubleshooting & Repair Related
Articles: Overflow Box Arrangements,
Plumbing Marine Systems by Bob Fenner,
Myth of the One Inch Beast
(Why Relying on One Inch Overflows... or Overflow! Is foolhardy)
by Scott Vallembois, The Flowrates
through various Bulkheads (In relation to overflow
drains) by Scott Vallembois,
Plumbing
Return Manifolds, Refugiums,
Related FAQs: Overflows 1,
Overflows 2, Overflows 3,
Overflows 4, & FAQs
on: Pump/Plumbing Noise 1,
Pump/Plumbing Noise 2, & FAQs on:
Rationale/Use, Sizing,
Through-Hull Fittings, Hang-On Selection,
Plumbing... Marine
Plumbing 1, Marine Plumbing 2,
Marine Plumbing 3, Marine Plumbing
4, Marine Plumbing 5,
Marine Plumbing 6, Plumbing 7,
Plumbing 8, Plumbing 9,
Plumbing 10, Plumbing 11,
Plumbing 12, Plumbing 13,
Plumbing 14,
Plumbing 15, Plumbing
16,
Plumbing 17, Plumbing 18,
Holes & Drilling, Durso Standpipes,
Make Up Water Systems,
Pumps, Plumbing,
Circulation,
Sumps, Refugiums, Marine
Circulation 2,
Gear Selection for Circulation,
Pump Problems, Fish-Only
Marine Set-ups,
Fish-Only Marine Systems 2, FOWLR/Fish
and Invertebrate Systems, Reef Systems,
Coldwater Systems, Small Systems,
Large Systems, Water Changes, Surge
Devices, | 
Define: "reef ready"
Palauastrea ramosa |
Micro Bubbles – 10/31/09
I recently (within the last week) moved my sump/refugium to the
basement.
It makes things so much easier to service. However, after the move I
have been experiencing a serious case of micro bubbles in the return
lines.
I've looked at every connection and see no leaks or salt creep (may be
too early to really notice salt creep).
<Could be simply the "drop"/mix of air and water in your overflow
line/s>
I use Caulerpa in my refug and notice many tiny bubbles there. I'm not
sure if they've always been there or not. Water is routed from the sump
through the refug and then dumps it into the sump again, but first it
passes over a baffle. I see no micro bubbles in the area of the sump
where refug water returns and where the return pump and skimmer draw
water.
I could send a picture or 2 if needed.
<Please do>
By the way, I cleaned all the lines (over flow, return) and the pumps
with my garden hose. After connecting everything I had a major micro
bubble problem which has lessened considerably. Some folks on RC claimed
this was to be expected after a major cleaning. However, I just can't
seem to stop this last bit of micro bubbles in the return lines. It is
now the 7th day since the move.
Any suggestions or advice?
Thanks,
-gene
<Yes... the use of "filter bags" on the discharges into the sump or
change in the arrangement of your plumbing ends there. Please read here
re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/bubtroubfaq2.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Overflow Gurgles 7/27/09
Hi there, I have an overflow question for my 125 gallon reef ready tank.
<Okay, hello Aaron.>
It is a 125 gallon All-Glass Reef Ready system. I have a Marineland
model 4 sump in the basement directly below the tank that I built a
stand for so it is right below the ceiling. About 8' from sump to top of
tank. My
problems are that on the tank, the right side gurgles about once a
minute.
<Usually an indication of a siphon in the line, not desirable.>
I can watch the water level rise about 2" to the upper part of the
standpipe then it gurgles and drops back down.
<Definitely a siphon.>
The left side does not, but however in the sump in the basement the
right side has major flow, and the left side has very little. The right
side you can just see the water pouring into the chamber with tons of
bubbles and lots of force and pouring onto the filter media tray, and
the bio wheel turning rather fast. On the left side is very slow flow.
No bubbles, no force, and just running onto the filter media trays with
no force at all,
and the bio wheel spinning rather slow. When the right side gurgles in
the tank you can see the rush of water in the sump as it gurgles above.
<It sounds like the right is siphoning, while the left is not.>
I have a 1" pvc drain line going straight down into the flexible (Pool
hose) line with a slight upside down question mark then into the 90 that
is in the sump.
<This "upside down question mark" can trap water within, leading to this
kind of siphon. But another issue below.>
For returns I am using 2 mag drive 18's. The returns are not straight
shots. The one on the right goes straight up through the floor to a
offset with 2 45's back up into the tank. The left side goes up 90's,
goes through my UV, 90's out and up into the tank. It is very noisy. I
need help with, why the gurgling and up and down water level on the
right side.
And why not enough force on the left side.
<First I would make sure both lines are equally aspirated/vented. You
may have to remove the P traps on the overflow lines, but the real issue
here just sounds like too much return flow for what these lines can
handle. I would go no more than 300 gph per drain. Keep in mind even
this leaves no redundancy in overflow capacity should one fail. See:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BulkheadFloRateArt.htm.>
You have always been there when I need help and I really appreciate it.
P.S. When I called Marineland to ask them all they could suggest is that
maybe my tank wasn't level, and was rushing more water to the right
side.
I checked for level and it was off (leaning to the right) just a smidge.
The bubble in the level was just crossing the line. Could this cause
problems.
<Not the problems you are facing, but others. See:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqstdleveling.htm>
Thank you
Aaron
<Welcome, Scott V.>
Re: Overflow Gurgles 7/28/09
Ok. So if it is a siphon problem, how do I fix it. Both standpipes have
1/8 holes in the top of them. Also when I first got the sump I was
running the mag 7 on the left and mag 9.5 on the right. That was nowhere
near enough flow.
<It will not be for total tank flow through two 1" overflow bulkheads.>
It was barely coming out of either side onto the media. So I got a mag
18 and put it on the right side, and put the 9.5 on the left.
That helped on the right side but still not enough on the left. So I
finally got another mag 18 and I have plenty on both sides just a lot
more on the right. If I could split it down the middle it would be
perfect. I have ball valve shutoffs on both side and have tried tuning
the right side down some but by the time I notice a difference I'm half
way off on the right.
<Will be the case.>
So you think it sounds like a siphon problem. I'm not sure how that
works, If you could explain it to me that would be great or just let me
know if there are any solutions to the problem. I've heard of sticking a
air tube down the hole.
<This can help in a pure siphoning situation. Your siphoning is caused
by flowing more than the drains can handle. This causes the water level
to rise, at some point enough to force more water down the drain.
This in turn creates a temporary siphon (despite having the line
aspirated)
that ends in that flushing noise you are hearing at the end of every
cycle. You really only have two options to fix this.
One is to decrease the flow through the overflows and replace that flow
with supplemental flow such as a closed loop or powerheads. The other
option is to drill the back of your tank within the overflow boxes to
gain more overflow capacity. A couple of 2" lines will put you in very
good shape.
The downside of the latter option is the need to take the tank down to
do it, but if it interests you at all, see:
http://reefercentral.com/Videos.html on the drilling process. Do also
see:
http://wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm for more of
an explanation on the 1" line issues.>
What would that do.
Please let me know what you think.
Thank you so much
Aaron
<Welcome, Scott V.>
Re: Overflow Gurgles 7/29/09
This all makes sense but why on the right side only.
<Likely the plumbing configuration in the line itself. I suspect it
likely has more horizontal runs (or longer)/turns/fittings?.>
If I changed the mag 18 back to a mag 9.5 on the right side of the sump
and left the 18 on the left would that make any difference...
<Nope.>
I just don't understand why one side has 2X's as much coming into the
sump than the other.
<Something about the line is making more prone to siphoning. All things
equal, both drains would experience the issue with this flow. Do you
maybe have pics of the lines?>
Thanks so much for your help. You all are great..
<Welcome, Scott V.>
Leak in my over flow siphon box 2/12/09
I had to build a
overflow/siphon box to get water into my wet/dry sump filter. My tank
has to sit to close to the wall and could not find a box thin enough.
When it came time to test for leaks I ended up with a few that would not
seal by reapplying solvent and clamping the affected areas. Also I have
a spot around the drain tubes where the polycarbonate sheet developed
several stress cracks that are all the way through the sheet and water
leaks out slowly.
How can I seal the box when I can not get to the
inside to apply silicone?
<If you have gaps large enough that you
cannot get them to solvent weld, then you may need to use a two part
plastic epoxy. If you can't get to the inside of it, apply it to the
outside...it won't be pretty, but it will work. As far as the sheet
where the drains come through, I would likely put another piece on there
to strengthen it. The fact that there are cracks bad enough to actually
leak is concerning.>
Lee Bowles
<Scott V.>
Oceanic RR Overflow Question…Stopping Seepage – 02/06/09
Hi
All,
<<Howdy Drew>>
As always, I thank everyone at WWM for their
valued opinion!
<<Quite welcome mate>>
Just a quick-hit question
today, so I'll try to make this painless. I recently upgraded my 90 gal
bowfront, undrilled tank to an Ultimate 120 with the dual MegaFlows.
<<Ah yes…the 1” misnomer>>
I'm SOOOO happy to no longer have to worry
about the CPR external overflow losing its siphon! I know the general
sentiment with these MegaFlows, but the 1" drains work well for me and I
supplement with additional high flow by other means, so I really can't
complain much.
<<Mmm, not so much a problem with the 1” drains
themselves…as you state, water flow can be supplemented in other ways
and personally, I prefer to limit the volume of water pushed through a
sump to simplify plumbing and noise hassles…I just wish the company
wouldn’t advertise to the uninitiated a “safe” gravity flow rate of
300gph as “MegaFlow”>
The tank came with the stock overflow kits,
with Durso-style standpipes. They run quietly and I'm actually quite
happy with them.
<<Excellent>>
Now, on to my question. When I cut
power to the tank, I get a slight amount of leakage from the drain lines
into the sump. Obviously, a tad amount is leaking from between the
standpipe and the bulkhead on both sides.
<<Easily rectified>>
It's not much, but it does trickle out. This makes me wonder: the
overflow draws water from the bottom, middle and top - so in an extended
power outage, what's to prevent the whole tank from draining to the
bottom slats of the overflow?
<<Indeed…given enough time as you
imply>>
I don't want to glue the standpipes into the bulkheads, but
I'm wondering what I can do to minimize any risk of draining the tank
during an outage.
<<No need to “glue”… Remove the standpipes and
smear some Silicone adhesive on the threads and replace the standpipe.
The Silicone will not “glue” the standpipe to the bulkhead…but if
allowed to cure before replacing the water in the tank, it will create a
seal that will stop that annoying seepage at the bulkhead junction>>
I'm running with RO water now and about to start building it up, but I'd
like to get this resolved before proceeding. Thoughts?
<<As
indicated… Drain the tank…seal the standpipe/bulkhead threads with
Silicone…let cure…refill the tank>>
Hopefully this made sense!
<<Hopefully I did too!>>
Thanks again,
Drew
<<Happy to assist.
EricR>> Leak in
Seam of my Overflow Box 1/22/09
I built an overflow/siphon
box to get water to my wet dry system. When I leak tested it I had a few
cracks that I fixed by re-applying solvent and clamping. It fixed all
but one spot. I fear that the edges were not completely flush at that
spot when first put together. How can I fix it?
<If it is not too
terrible a gap the Weldon 16 can fill the gap on something
non-structural such as this. Otherwise a acrylic patch over the seam
will do the trick.>
Also how can I fix a stress crack that is open to
both sides of the sheet?
<Why did it stress/crack? From the weight
of the box hanging on the tank?>
Will applying solvent into the
cracks repair them?
<It will if they are tight fitting, but you do
need to assess the reason for the crack.>
Lee Bowles
<Scott V.>
Re: Leak in Seam of my Overflow Box 1/26/09
The stress
cracks came when I clamped together two pieces and applied solvent. I
think maybe that it was clamped to tight?
<Likely, with good fitting
pieces is should take very little pressure to bring them together. I
even just use black electricians tape when I have odd pieces that are
difficult to clamp, it really should not take much pressure.>
It is
plenty strong and is not in an area where it will be stressed. It just
created a spot where a very small amount of water leaks out, a small
drop in an hour. The rest of the leaks I fixed by reclamping and
applying more solvent. The final spot is in the bottom corner and can
not be reached by hand from the inside. To hang it on the back of the
tank it had to be very narrow. I need to travel seventeen inches down
through an inch and a half slot to reach it. Is there something that
could be poured down into to seal it?
<OK, you will want to get some
Weld-On 16, the thick stuff in the tube (or you can make your own with
your current solvent and some acrylic shavings). Get yourself a straw or
a piece of tubing that can reach the spot that is leaking and send some
of the 16 down there. There are a few unorthodox ways I could tell you
to do this that would have many acrylic fabricators shuddering (but come
on, we have all done these things!), but this will fix your leak without
making too much of an unsightly mess! Scott V.>
Bulkhead depression, sel. 1/3/09
Well, being new at this I've been reading your site for 6 months now and
still don't have a drop of H20 yet in the aquarium.
<Heeee! Like
many good things, experiences... savouring the anticipation is very
worthwhile>
So much research to do and all. All was going well until
I finally filled up the overflow last night to test it out w/the new
sump. Then the depression set in as the bulkhead was leaking. Today I
tried tightening it to no avail. Finally I decided to just undo the
return line completely and just redo it. I then noticed hairline cracks
in the bulkhead.
<Unusual...>
Unfortunately, despite my several
months of research I neglected drill hole size and ended up w/the
standard ¾ hole size of 1 ½. The schedule 80 is 1 5/8.
<Mmm, no need
for Sch 80... replace it/this with a schedule 40 fitting... plenty
strong enough>
I thought I'd pass along my experience and recommend
to everyone who's new at, this like me, to go with the heavier duty
bulkhead. Do you know of any brands that are sturdier than the flimsy
standard ones (marine depot) that will fit into a 1 ½ hole. I'm going to
order a new one today.
<Do contact Mike or Scott at Glass-Holes
(.com)... There are differences of opinion re how many gaskets to use,
in, and/or out, I like a smear of Silastic...>
Thanks for any help!
Sorry if I sound depressed as I'm sure this isn't too big a deal but
setting this all up is a bit overwhelming for sure.
:-)
<Oh, no
need to explain, apologize... I have indeed been here, done this... The
good news, all is easily fixable at this point>
Ps. If Bob happens to
get this I'm the guy you meet at Reefapalooza in so-cal with my family
sitting there with the classic �When is this going to be done� look on
their faces….
<Heeeee! I do recall. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Bulkhead depression - follow-up 1/3/09
Bob, thanks for
the words of encouragement! I'd be lying if I said I didn't need it.
<Glad to conspire with you John>
Anyway, I bought another bulkhead
last night at my LFS and I plumbed it up again, put a drop or so on the
gasket and after playing with the lock nut tightness the best I could
get was a drop an hour leak. I tried washer on both sides and just one
side to no avail. My gut feel is that the gap between the bulkhead and
the acrylic is just a little too big, therefore causing the washer to
acrylic contact surface area being too small. I can't think of any other
logical explanation as to why this is leaking.
<Ahh... I do have a
prescribed solution... as alluded to in our last email... see the end>
My LFS stated that if I want to I can expand the hole easily with a
Dremel and a round sandpaper bit.
<Mmm, nah!>
He seemed very
confident as long as you go in a circular motion and don't rush it. This
allows for a 1" bulkhead or the beefier 3/4".
<Is this a discharge or
an intake fitting? If a drain, go with the larger, largest diameter you
can... if feeding into the system, no sense making the diameter larger
than the size of the pumps discharge volute... which should be the same
as the plumbing ID>
I'd need to go from 1 1/2 to 1 5/8 hole which
isn’t much. He wasn't pushing the idea, just offering it as a possible
solution. This idea is starting to grow on me as it seems like more of a
once and for all type of solution. I'll will also contact Mike and/or
Scott today.
<I would... Much easier to SLOWLY insert a bit and drill
through all at once...>
On a separate note, I'm starting to look at
lighting now.
Background info:
65 gallon tall acrylic (the 'tall'
is turning out to be a pain - another learning experience - can't fit a
4 footer though).
30X16X16 sump w/sock + refugium combo (Truvu)
located behind the wall in another room.
Vertex IN80 skimmer
One
6 X 6 overflow in the corner. 1" with 3/4" return. Yep, I know. Not
ideal.
<... I would re-drill the overflow... actually make two lines
here...>
I'm planning the water level in the sump now for BOTH
overflow block (pump all water back in) and power off conditions.
<Good>
I'd really like LED lighting but it's just too expensive still
at this point. So I'm thinking about one of those all in one units with
2 Metal Halides, moon led, etc.. Something like this:
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~CU01063~
idCategory~FILTFIMHMMMDMLM5~category~36in~vendor~.html
<Fancy
schmancy... see my comments below>
Does something like this just lay
on top of the acrylic tank?
<It can in general... got to keep the MH
away from the acrylic though... Better to have all on a "perch", can be
made or purchased... Mount it at least four inches, six is better, away
from the acrylic... Which has a surprisingly low flash point... yep,
fire hazard>
Seems like one metal halide might be enough, and
cheaper...
<Yes... and IMO unnecessary... I'd just stick with
fluorescents here... VHO, PCs... are sufficient>
I planning FOWLR,
but I can tell I'm going to get into the reef stuff really quick as I'm
already fascinated by the variety of life, just don't want to jump in
too quickly; and getting it not to leak w/one clown would put me in an
ecstatic state at this point. I like the concept of T5's for efficiency,
but it seems like there's just a blanketing effect of white light.
<Mmm, no... not with decent reflectors>
Finally, is egg crate under
the sugar sand for rock stability, a good idea? Any drawbacks to putting
egg crate on the bottom of the tank.
<Mostly just makes it harder to
stir the sand... I would leave out the egg crate, just set the larger
rock pieces directly on the bottom...>
Thanks so much again for your
time. Appreciate it.
<Oh! And about the through hull leak... as
stated before, I would make a thin smear of 100% Silicone Rubber on both
sides of the gaskets (yes, one on either side of the tank if you have
two... or just on the outside (gasket) if you only have one... including
a thin smear of Silastic on the threads nearest the bulkhead to give a
little lock to the nut... Bob Fenner>
Re: Bulkhead depression - follow-up 1/3/09
Bob, thanks for
the quick reply!
<Welcome John>
Bulkhead Leak:
The fitting
that's leaking is the 3/4 return line (1.5 in hole). The 1" drain line
right next to it seems ok so far. A bit of digression here, but I'm
wondering if I shouldn't have used silicon O ring lubricant?
<Mmm,
no... Silastic... a bit stickier... and it too does "give" if/when one
want to un-do the work some time later>
Anyway, a bit confused on
your responses.
On expanding the 1.5 in hole...
"I would... Much
easier to SLOWLY insert a bit and drill through all at once."
I can't
picture this. My Dremel sandpaper bits are fairly small, about .5 in
diameter. Can you please clarify?
<Easier for me to fit a bit against
the current hole to drill out the extra eighth inch... Am hoping ScottV
will explain better>
On the technique:
"I would make a thin smear
of 100% Silicone Rubber on both sides of the gaskets (yes, one on either
side of the tank if you have two... or just on the outside (gasket) if
you only have one... including a thin smear of Silastic on the threads
nearest the bulkhead to give a little lock to the nut".
I looked up
Silastic and it's made by Dow and there seems to be 3 types.
Home
depot and MDepot have no results for Silastic in their search boxes
(web), which surprised me. Where do I get this?
<All 100% ones are
identical (does make sense eh?)... Some just say "For Aquarium Use"...
but 100% is 100%>
You also mention silicone rubber. Is this the same
as aquarium silicone sealant?
<It is>
I did check the silicone faq
on WWM and most of the ?'s are related to glass aquariums leaking,
etc....
Lighting & Egg Crate:
Got it! Thanks! I'm getting there
with you support!
I can't thank you enough for this advice,
invaluable really.
:)
<Again, certainly welcome. BobF>
Re: Bulkhead depression - final follow-up 1/22/09
Thought I'd
pass along a follow up to my bulkhead leak situation.
I was able to
Dremel the holes to a slightly bigger size without too much difficulty
and had a real snug fit on the bigger sch. 80 bulkheads. It's up and
running now with no leaks at least for one hour, time will tell.
<Good.>
The water level does bounce up and down a bit in the overflow
due to the Durso? I expanded the hole to 1/8" at the top and now it
bounces about 1/4 near the inlet pipe. Is this about right?
<This
should be very constant barring the disturbance on the water’s surface
due to the flow. If the actual water level is fluctuating even a ¼” it
is indicative a bit of siphoning, with a few possible causes. What size
bulkhead did you end up with for this overflow and what flow are you
running? Do you have any slurping or flushing sounds?>
Now it's on
to figuring out how to get the new vertex skimmer up and running. Then
buying some rock.
Is it ok to put a DSB into a separate container in
my sump?
<Sure.>
I'm thinking if I ever do want to remove it or
need to work on the sump for some reason, I can just pull it out the DSB
in separate container sections.
<A fine way to do it.>
Thanks
again for the help. I think my family had a bit of the 'light at the end
of the tunnel' look today which was really encouraging. :)
<Happy we
have been of service, welcome, Scott V.> Overflow Sizing
1/7/09
Hey Crew,
<David>
I was reading through your
daily FAQs over lunch break (as usual, great read!) and noticed a
common/recurring question that has me concerned.
From what I've
gathered based on responses, 1" drains should not be trusted with more
then 300gph of flow apiece.
What concerns me, is that my 2 year old
Perfecto 180gal "reef ready" tank came from the factory with bulkhead
fittings that are sized to slip 1" (inner diameter) PVC into. I have
been running two "1200gph" (at zero head) Mag12s for returning water
from the sump, with very direct plumbing with minimal angles, and pumps
nearly directly under holes in aquarium. I would be surprised if these
pumps are losing over ¼ of their pressure from these straight forward
lines (especially considering they are rated at 1100gph at the head
height my tank would demand)
If they are only producing ¾ flow, that
would still be 1800gph which is three times the combined flow I've read
on WetWeb responses as appropriate my two overflows. I have had this
tank up and running for 2 years without any drainage/overflowing issues,
but I certainly don't want a surprise one evening!
Am I missing
something obvious with calculations? Would Marineland/perfecto truly
design a "reef ready" aquarium incapable of safely handling more then 3x
total tank turnover through its overflows?
<Ah, this could get quite
technical, but you have to consider friction loss also. A 90 will give
you a loss equal to having an additional 2.25 of 1" PVC, a 45 equal to
1.40, a gate valve equal to 0.6, and a branch tee equal to 6. As you can
see, lost gph can add up quite fast. Another factor to consider is the
specific gravity of the fluid the Mag 12 has to pump, that will add to
the equation as salt water is heavier than fresh and needs a little more
power to pump. The pump manufacturers do not state how they arrived at
their numbers but I'm guessing the testing was done with fresh water.
And then you have the performance curve of the pump to consider which
factors around head height, viscosity, etc.
All things said, you just
cannot compute based on the length of head being used. Another side to
consider is the distance between the pump and the sump, this can also
add to gph loss, so it is best to keep the pump as close to the sump as
possible. I'm betting my money that you are not getting 1100gph at the
outlet. If you really want to dive into this, go here.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/featurejp.htm>
Thank
you!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
-David Re:
Overflow Sizing, w/ ScottV's valuable addenda 1/8/09
Thank
you for the extremely informative response!
<You're welcome.>
I
completely agree - 1100gph actual output in real-world conditions from
1200gph rated pumps would be absurdly optimistic. I had assumed 3/4
(900gph) per pump was reasonable (based on the wonderful article you've
linked in your prior response), but I had not considered salt water
viscosity, head loss due to plumbing considerations within the tank, and
the possibility that the GPH ratings on these pumps may be flat-out
wrong.
<I don't know if I'd say they are wrong, just do not know how
they were arrived at.>
In my particular case, I have 1.25" flex pipe
clamped from the 1" PVC screwed onto pumps (actually submerged within
sump), up to the 1" PVC mounted directly to bulkheads without any hard
bends, gate valves, or any Tees under the tank.
<If the flex pipe is
the ribbed variety, the friction loss will be even greater.>
At least
two places I did screw up with my assumptions were that I did not
consider Ts and various plumbing aspects (such as the original jointed
tubing and spout-heads) that are within the tank, or salt water
viscosity vs. fresh water (or whatever is used by this particular
manufacturer) for rating pumps.
To my original concern, even if my
pumps have 50% loss due to head/friction (only total 1200gph achieved
out of total 2400gph theoretical output from pumps), that would still be
200% of the flow I'm seeing recommended on responses to others based on
my overflow plumbing size (300gph per overflow, 600gph total). Should I
just shrug it off as "Marineland/perfecto" magical overflows, or would
it be wise to unhook one of the pumps (and lose the safety/redundancy of
running two return pumps) to alleviate any potential risks of
overflowing?
<I'd leave things as they are, if your sump is sized
correctly (about 25 gallons), you should be fine. You can find out by
multiplying the length x width x height and dividing by 231. This will
give you the gallon capacity of your sump. >
Thank you yet again for
what's always highly informative, educational responses to real-life
aquatic issues! You guys (and gals) are awesome!
<We thank you for
the compliment and you're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
<<A bit to add
regarding the 1" bulkheads. Partial/full siphoning and allowing some
inches of water to buildup above the standpipe can all have a
significant impact on the flow these lines are capable of. The 300 gph
number is for a truly gravity fed line with no siphoning. This is far
and away the safest, most reliable way to run these. Any other method
relies on a balance between the overflow and the return, a recipe for
disaster. That being said, anybody with a vessel of measured volume and
a timer can test both the 1" line and the flow from the return pumps.
Most people would be shocked to know what their pump is actually
pumping! Do also keep in mind that running these at the limit also
provides for no redundancy. Scott V.>> NOISE Question
Noise Question, Overflows 12/2/08
Folks �
<Andy.>
I am
finally up and running after three months of intensive research on your
site and others. I believe it was worth the wait, however, the one thing
I was scared of: the dreaded drain noise, is still baffling me after
trying different methods to eliminate/reduce it.
<Uh-oh!>
I have a
150 new AG "reef ready" tank with flex hose for drains, one is 5 ft the,
other is 3 ft in length. The shorter 3 ft piece is kind of curved
because there is only about a 6" distance from the tank bulkhead to the
sump bulkhead. I am told this "almost" loop is not good, however, this
is the drain that surges the least...it's the longer 5 ft piece that is
louder even though it's straighter.
<A more direct route would be
better.>
The 5ft piece surges like crazy even after I turned down the
gate valves on the Mag 18 almost to a trickle. ( I should have bought a
Mag12, I guess) I am guessing I have no more than 300 gph for each 1"
drain, and IAW with your site that should be sufficient for noise
purposes.
<Is flat out the limit of what they can handle.>
However, this drain line even stops draining for ~ 1 second intervals
and than drains again...like constant convulsions.
<Siphoning.>
I
tried aspirating the Dursos with 3/8" tubing and sticking it to
different depths...nothing. I made special fittings for the long length
so it won't curve almost 90 degrees to the vertical sump bulkhead...it
now enter parallel to the sump to a 1" PVC connected to a 1.25" T with a
end cap on the top side, which I drilled with a 3/8" hole and I also
aspirated. Still surging...maybe marginally better at best. Is this
surging safe? I mean is bad to leave it like this if I did not care
about the noise?
<It is not safe, the overflow basically relies on
the siphon to restart every few seconds to drain. If the siphon did not
restart…>
The only thing left that I am thinking is taking off the
sump bulkheads off, so I can have enough room for both flex hoses to
place in their respective filter socks, maybe with a 45 degree PVC elbow
attached to the drain lines (not using the original sump bulkheads).
This would be a "softer" and lower landing in the sump. I would have
never thought that water gravity draining is so temperamental?
<They
can be very much.>
Besides drilling a new hole, what other options do
I have?
<If you are indeed running 300 gph or less through each your
drains will work, but with no redundancy. As for the siphoning, I
suspect there is somewhere in this line (I am having trouble picturing
the whole run) that is acting somewhat as a P trap, pooling water inside
the line. This can cause siphoning issues even with the line aspirated
above. The siphoning cycle within the line will become apparent up above
as in allows water to flow, then stops, starts, stops and so on.>
Respectfully, Andy
<I do hope this helps, if not do write back with
some more details (maybe a pic) of the lines/run. Scott V.>
Loud Overflow (Another Overwhelmed “Mega” Drain) – 07/17/08
I
have recently set up a 90 gallon reef tank with a central inside the
tank standard Mega overflow kit.
<<As yes, the grossly overstated
1-inch overflow kit>>
It drains through a one-inch bulkhead into a
30gallon sump below the stand. I have been doing a lot of research
concerning Stockman, Durso, and Hofer gurgle overflow pipe constructs
that supposedly will quiet down the gurgling noise.
<<Will help…as
long as you aren’t simply overcoming the drain with too much flow.
Regardless of what may be stated in your kit, trying to run more than
300gph through a 1-inch gravity drain is trouble>>
I am still
confused which one will work best for an inside the tank overflow which
is 24 inches tall.
<<Differing means to the same end. All will
probably elicit a change…finding which one fits and performs best for
your situation/setup will take some experimentation>>
I am worried
about handling the outflow.
<<…?>>
I have a Gen-X pcx-40 pump
<<Yikes! Unless you have a ton of headloss or this pump is throttled
way-back, it is way too much pump for a single 1-inch drain (see my
earlier comment re)! You have a dangerous potential for flooding, and as
you have discovered, noisy siphon effect going>>
which I plumbed into
our crawlspace for noise control, and the standard design of the Hofer
gurgle pipe only handles 5-600 gph.
<<In reality this is plenty…the
concern is over how much flow your 1-inch drain can safely handle
(300gph)>>
I was trying to determine should I increase the size of
Hofer gurgle to 1.5 inch and 2 inch pipe, does it need to be taller than
the design on their website which is only 5 inches tall and then extend
the air tubing above the water line, or is there a better option for
noise control that can handle the overflow?
<<I would follow the
recommendations of the designers…and visit/query the reef forums for
others input re their design modifications, if any. But the real issue
you need to address is flow rate. As stated, you just have too much
water being pumped to the tank for the 1-inch overflow to handle. I
would suggest you downsize the return pump (best option), or at the
least install a gate valve on the output side of the pump to reduce flow
to that which the drain can safely handle…even with an aftermarket
“gurgle pipe”>><RMF would have another drain line drilled, fitted.>
Thanks,
Mark
<<Good luck with your plumbing project. EricR>>
Tank plumbing
Siphoning Overflow 7/1/08
I was setting up the
plumbing for a 20 gallon tank I'm using as a frag tank. It is drilled
from the bottom with a 2" PVC going straight down into a 20 gallon
refugium/sump.
<A serious overflow for a 20 gal!>
Its a straight
drop into the refugium and I have a 'T' in the PVC and under the 'T' a
ball valve, so that I can regulate the flow go into the refugium and the
rest of the water will be diverted into the side of the sump with the
mechanical filter, and in the middle of the sump is the return. I built
the stand as well but didn't get around to putting any paneling on it so
its quite loud. To solve this I extended the PVC down into water,
realizing this would make that lovely toilet flushing sound, but
thinking it would be more tolerable than the sound of the water crashing
into the sump.
<Both are curable.>
My question is can I drill a
hole into the PVC just above the waterline to solve the problem of the
toilet flushing sound?
<Yes, tis the solution, even with such a
large drain line. Drill just large enough to slip a piece of vinyl or
other tubing in to slide up and down, you will need the end of the line
inside the pipe about an inch or two below the waterline inside the pipe
to prevent siphoning.>
If not, is there any other way to work around
this problem?
<Nope, you have the solution.>
Given the choice,
I'll take the toilet flushing over a waterfall, but it would be nice to
be able to fix it.
<You can fix both.>
Thanks.
<Welcome, Scott
V>
Fish stuck in overflow with no way out! - 06/08/2007
Hi, I have a
Blackspot hogfish that has only been in my tank for about a week and he
somehow managed to get into one of the dual overflows. I have been
trying to catch him with a net for over an hour but with all of the
plumbing, it is proving impossible. I was wondering if there are any
safe alternative solutions for his relocations back to the main tank. My
husband wants to try a small shop vac but this just doesn't sound safe
to me?!?!? Please help me save my fish! Thanks for any suggestions,
Alison
<Mmm, it may well be that the easiest, simplest approach here
is to turn off all pumping and dumping this fish back in to the main
display... and, screen all intakes going forward. Bob Fenner>
Overflow... Not reef ready 4/29/08
I have a reef ready 90
with the built in overflow in the back. (older style?) I have a mag 9.5
return pump. The return goes from the sump to the bottom of the
standpipe, maybe 24" then up into the overflow box another 24".
<OK>
The problem is I am getting a lot of noise from the overflow, I hear
most of it from the top of the tank. The tank is equipped with the stock
standpipes. After Googling I found that the overflow is rated for
600gph,
<And in reality only flow 300 without issues.>
and the
mag 9 is 800gph @ 48" head, so why would I still be getting the air
noise? Is there an adjustment I can make to make it more quiet?
<The
fact of the matter is the 1” drain provided in these overflows cannot
handle nearly what the Mag 9.5 can pump back up to the tank. At the very
least this will be evident with the noise you are experiencing, at the
worst you will end up with water on the floor. By forcing the drain to
handle more than it can you will be forcing it to siphon somewhat,
creating the gurgling and flushing noises you are hearing. You will need
to put a ball valve on the output of the Mag and restrict the flow until
the noise subsides.>
Thanks in advance
<Welcome, good luck, Scott
V.>
Algae in Overflow Box 3/15/08
Greetings Crew.
<Hello Andy.>
I have a question regarding solutions to algal growth in my overflow
box. My tank is not pre-drilled, so I have the old style
hang-on-the-back overflow box. In December, I converted from a T5 HO
lighting fixture to a larger metal halide fixture.
<OK>
Since I
made this change, I've noticed that the first internal cavity of my
overflow box tends to develop a large, thick mat of green hair algae
that restricts water flow into my sump.
<This happens, it is a
pain!>
A portion of the actinic PC bulbs in my new fixture hangs over
my overflow box, whereas my old fixture was narrower and no part of it
sat over the overflow box. I purchased a small flexible, spring-like
filter cleaning brush and, after MUCH manipulation, was able to get it
up and into the cavity. I was able to remove much of the algae, but this
was a very difficult task because of resistance created by the algae and
structure of the cavity and the flexibility of the brush. At first, I
had luck only in scrubbing the sides of the cavity, as the brush would
orient only outwards within the cavity. So, I decided to feed the brush
handle through a short piece of PVC pipe once I got the brush inside the
cavity, and this allowed for a little more stability of the brush and
let me access more of the internal cavity. However, even using this
method I was not able to completely clean the cavity. This was a lot of
work--took me a good 2 hours of manipulation, moving my fixture off the
tank, etc. Does anyone know of a better way, or a better tool, other
than taking the overflow box off and soaking it in bleach for a few
hours?
<Manually loosening a rinsing out is generally the best way,
still a pain as you describe.>
I was thinking of covering my overflow
box in aluminum foil to keep light out of the box, but I worry about the
unintentional addition of aluminum/corrosion byproducts into my display
caused by runoff if any water splashes, etc. on the foil.
Thanks for
any insight.
Andy
<In your situation I would take the overflow box
off, lightly sand the outside and paint it. This will keep the light out
of it, preventing such a proliferation of the algae inside. Krylon
Fusion spray paint will work well for this, it dries fast and adheres
well to plastics. Welcome, I hope this helps you out, Scott V.>
Please Help! At My Wits End Trying to Solve This Problem... (Another
Overwhelmed “Mega” Overflow?) – 03/03/08
I have a 150 gallon
glass aquarium with Megaflow Overflow system, Euro-Reef skimmer with
Sedra pump, and 2 Mag-Drive pumps (950 gph).
<<…! Is this for
each!? I’m guessing this “Megaflow” system (can you hear the sarcasm
in my voice [grin]), consists of a single 1” drain, yes?
Realistically, this would limit you to about 300gph en toto for the
return pump(s)…after headloss>>
The system is 5 years old. The
pumps are all originals but well cleaned and cared for. I can
honestly say the system has been virtually silent since I purchased
a Euro-Reef Isopad soon after system was set up 5 years ago.
<<Ah, yes…isolating pump vibration can make a remarkable
difference>>
About a week ago a major change occurred. I came
home to very loud rushing water noise (like toilet flushing
constantly).
<<Mmm, a siphon surge…generally means you are
pushing more water to the tank than the overflows/drains can safely
handle>>
The pumps and skimmer appeared to be working well with
no apparent air leaks. The drain pipe/return pipe appears tight in
bulkhead and in correct position. No matter what I do to try to
quiet the system nothing works. When I turned the system off I heard
an extreme high whining noise (like something was stuck in line).
<<Hmmm…or maybe sucking/pushing are through a very small leak
(pinhole)>>
I continued to turn the system on and off until I
could no longer hear the whine.
<<…?>>
The system is not hard
plumbed and usually I can "burp" the air out easily by moving the
flexible down lines a couple of times.
<<Mmm, better to aspirate
these if this is a continual problem. This involves inserting a
length of small-diameter tubing down the overflow pipe to allow air
to escape when the system is “running.” Determining the best
length/diameter for the tubing usually requires a bit of
trial-and-error>>
This has no effect on the noise now.
<<Agreed…not a panacea>>
The noise (rushing water and air) seems
to originate along the lines draining into sump or up in the
aquarium, not in the sump.
<<Indeed…a result of too much flow>>
Adjusting the water level using the air intake elbow has not been
successful. The drain pipe and return pipes seem to be firmly in
place in the bulkheads. I know of nothing that could have been
sucked into the system. I did have a problem with overgrowth of
sponges over my live rock etc when I was feeding my puffer mussels
daily. The sponges were evident and growing out of the overflow. I
fear that somehow they are constricting my lines internally? Is this
possible, how do I eradicate?
<<This is possible…and would
explain the change in the systems’ performance…Replacing the drain
pipe/tubing is an option, but I think you have other issues here as
well. This problem is almost certainly an issue with “too much water
volume” being pushed down the drain line. Frankly, with the return
pumps you list, I’m amazed you haven’t had a serious flood before
now. Those Mag-Drive pumps must be working against some serious head
pressures. Even so, it sounds like your drain has been operating in
a dangerous “siphon” mode where the slightest obstruction; in this
case possible buildup of organic matter, can cause serious problems.
I think you were lucky this time in that the drain was able to
“surge” and keep up with the flow, albeit in a very noisy/annoying
manner, and didn’t just back water up all over your floor>>
I am
at a loss as to what do next.
<<If you don’t have gate-valves
plumbed on the return side of the pumps (recommended), try turning
off one of the return pumps to reduce the return flow and see what
happens. As stated, with the 1” drain line you should shoot for a
flow-/drain-rate of no more than 300gph. And obviously, come up with
alternative methods for producing necessary “water movement” within
the display>>
Thank you for your assistance.
Leslie
<<Give
the flow reduction a try, Leslie…and write back to discuss further
if you wish. Regards, Eric Russell>>
Follow Up Note On My Email To You on 3/3/08 (Sys.
Plumbing/Bristleworms/Puffer) – 03-15-08
I wanted to thank
Eric Russell for his assistance on 3/3/08.
<<Eric here…you are
quite welcome, Leslie>>
I was so frustrated that I was ready to
give my fish away (or worse) and close down the system!
<<I do
recall>>
He gave me the support and guidance to get through a
really miserable few days until my aquarium was fully functioning
again and my 4 charges were alive and well. (This includes my
original 5+ year old dogface puffer, 5 year old Foxface, 4 year old
Picasso trigger and 3.5 year old hippo tang.)
<<Is rewarding to
know>>
Thank you, thank you Eric, as I thought my puffer was a
goner , not eating for 4 days.
<<Most welcome again, my friend>>
You guys and gals probably do know what a wonderful service you
provide and you are so appreciated in 911 situations.
<<It truly
is our wish for you/the hobby to succeed…thank you for the kind
words>>
I had written because my 150 gallon all glass aquarium
with MegaFlows had started gurgling and siphoning. The system is 5+
years old and usually quiet. The noise was a very sudden change and
no matter what I tried nothing worked. With Eric's advice I tried to
aspirate the air. Did not work, if anything noise, gurgling just
became worse.
<<It can take quite a bit of fiddling to find the
right combination of tubing diameter and insertion length…but
still…is no panacea>>
Eric confirmed my fear that it was possible
that my drains ( 2 drains, each 1"diameter ) could be plugged from
organic matter. (Ii fed my puffer daily mussels to keep his beak in
check).
<<Indeed…many cryptic organisms find this environment
agreeable to them>>
Eric suggested I might need new lines.
<<Is often the simplest approach to this issue>>
I also suspected
my Euro-Reef skimmer might be at fault for the extra air being
pulled into the system. It still produced good skimmate amounts but
was getting more and more difficult to start pump. At times required
pump to be disconnected from skimmer and tilted around before it
would start.
<<Ah, yes…I very recently had to replace all three
Sedra pumps on my own ER skimmer (made the switch/upgrade to the
ER-modded Eheim pumps)>>
Anyway, due to undergoing treatment for
a medical condition, I am quite weak right now, and had to hire my
local LFS to come to my home. They determined there was nothing
wrong with skimmer function (wrong) and thought the flow was just
fine, did not agree noise was anything but normal.
<<Disappointing to know>>
I insisted they break system down and
evaluate.
<<Excellent>>
This took them over 2 hours (at $85.00
an hour,
<<Yikes! Maybe I am in the wrong biz… [grin}>>
I know
MD's that are less expensive, but who's going to argue at this
point.
<<Actually, from what I’ve read I think that fee is about
“median’ and not unreasonable. Regardless…you should still expect
them to know what they are doing/provide quality service>>
The
Mag 9.5 pumps were fine, but the drain lines were at least 50%
clogged with fibrous tissues (sponges?)
<<Quite likely>>
but
worse, thousands of bristle worms.
<<Not the monsters many folks
think them to be. Can be/are quite beneficial detritivores…although
extremely high population densities can be an indicator of excess
organic material (overfeeding)>>
Unfortunately, when the drain
lines were reinstalled and the system started up hundreds of baby
and not so baby bristle worms were blown into my aquarium. This was
so upsetting as I keep a meticulous aquarium (at least the parts I
can see).
<<Relax my friend, no reason to be upset at this point.
Back off a bit on the feedings and the worm population should adjust
accordingly>>
I do every other day 8-gallon water changes and
visually the aquarium looks pristine.
<<Ah, but as you are
learning…much going on/present that isn’t always “visible” to the
naked eye>>
My puffer requires this and I think this is why he
has lived so long. But I am side tracking, sorry...
<<No
worries…all pertinent/worth sharing>>
Anyway, when the LFS left
my home I was left with a sump full of bristle worms. Most were
about an eighth of an inch long but there were many big ones, 1-2
inches in size.
<<Mmm…have seen much bigger, and are of little
concern as stated. Think about it, these worms have been in your
system for years…you didn’t have any problems re, or even think
about them when you didn’t “see” them>>
Also 2 big piles of worms
(I mean about 2 inches high) were deposited in the aquarium. My
trigger was going crazy but even he wasn't hungry enough to clear
them. As it was about 8 pm and dark by now I quickly did a 20 gallon
water change and collapsed into bed. Next Am I moved live rock from
1/4th of aquarium and of course there were piles of the worms under
it. I still need to continue my quest and break down the other
3/4ths of aquarium and vacuum up what I can).
<<You can do this
if you wish…but is not necessary in my opinion>>
Any thoughts on
how to rid the strangers?
<<You really don’t want to be “rid” of
them….they serve a very useful purpose. But as implied earlier,
reducing excess foodstuffs in the tank will limit the population>>
I don't want them growing inches long.
<<Too late [grin]…but no
reason to panic>>
I will not overfeed aquarium but at this point
I want them out!
<<These organisms are a necessary and useful
component of a “balanced” system>>
I agitated the sump water in
the skimmer and it picked up several hundred more from there. Then I
got really discouraged and just completely emptied the entire sump
and cleaned it all out of any water and worms. The doorbell rang
with my new Sedra 5000 pump for skimmer, it was perfect timing.
<<Indeed…a well functioning skimmer will also help with the excess
organic load, obviously>>
Even the fiber block that is in sump
after the floss/ carbon/ was filled with baby bristle worms. The
foam on the Euro-Reef skimmer full too. Now skimmer with new pump is
up and going, lines are clean, about 100 gallons of water have been
changed in the last 3 days. Gurgling has stopped, no siphoning
anymore either.
<<Yay!>>
Now I have one question. How do I
prevent this from occurring again in 3-4 years?
<<Hmm…it’s not
likely it can be “prevented”…but reducing dissolved organics in the
water that feed the sponges will slow down their growth/expansion.
Also…reducing flow rates a bit (i.e. – not maximizing/overwhelming
the drain’s capacity) will allow a bit of “wiggle room” for such
growths>>
I don't want to feed my puffer any more mussels after
seeing this residue,
<<Oh…don’t stop altogether…just be more
judicious re>>
also I think the sponges really picked up growth
when I started putting Selcon on food about 9 months ago.
<<Mmm,
yes…while quite beneficial, it has been my experience that use of
this and other such food boosters requires careful use as they can
be abused. I do recommend you keep using the Selcon…but keep its use
to no more than once or twice a week as a food soak>>
What do I
do to keep his beak from growing so fast?
<<As stated…don’t
“completely stop” feeding shellfish to the puffer, but rather cut
back a bit maybe (as well as other foods/potential
over-feedings)…and do also add some chemical filtration
(carbon/Poly-Filter) to your system>>
He only occasionally takes
bites out of the coralline live rock. I was trying to think of a way
I could attach his favorite big hard algae wafer to a mussel shell.
That way he would still bite hard against the shell and keep beak in
check.
<<Keep feeding what the fishes need/require…and “step-up”
the filtration/husbandry to cope re>>
The LFS said that puffers
don't live long when they are at the size of mine but I just don't
believe that.
<<…?! And they based that statement on…? Seems a
ridiculous thing to say, to me>>
He has done wonderfully and
never has had a disease.
<<Testament to your good care and a
proper diet, no doubt>>
What is the oldest age you know for a
captive dogface?
<<Have heard this can be more than a decade>>
Well, that is the end of my tale. I write to say thank you but also
so others can learn from my bad experience and hopefully save some
agony.
<<Many thanks for sharing>>
Thank you Eric and all of
the team.
<<We are all pleased to assist>>
Oh, I did also have
valves added as recommended by Eric.
<<Excellent move!>>
Sincerely,
Leslie
<<Be chatting… Eric Russell>> |
More Overflow Woes 2/23/08
Hello again!
<Hello Jaime.>
Here is a breakdown of my system and my problems...oh boy here goes.
I have a 125 gallon reef tank which was recently (3wks) upgraded
from a 75 gallon. I have a CPR continuous siphon overflow (with 2
one inch bulkheads) an oceanic type 2 sump and a Mag flow 8 (1500
gallons per hour).
<Mag 18?>
There is PVC cemented into the
overflow going down into the unit below and PVC Teflon taped
together for the return. 3 times so far the 125 has overflowed from
the top...the water level rises and "boom!!" mess! Thank god I have
been there every time.
<Not good.>
The tank is almost level,
maybe a hair off to the front.
<Get yourself a level and check
this, fix the problem if it is not level.>
The overflow has been
getting some air trapped in the neck no matter how much I suck it
out...due to the tiniest variation in levelness?
<And likely
running to/past capacity. A realistic, real world and safe
expectation out of this overflow will be just north of 600 GPH. The
addition of a Tom Aqualifter pump to the overflow to constantly
remove any trapped air will help out immensely.>
When I suck that
air out sometimes the water level drops a little. (going back to
normal) I even have a ball valve to slow the amount of water going
back into the tank (and with that more than half closed I am putting
strain on the unit) but it still overflows.
<Yes, a pump that
large, even throttled back so far, will strain this overflow. You
are simply limited by the two 1” bulkheads here.>
Someone with a
brain has got to help me here!! The jerks I bought everything from
want to put a "t" valve on the return part to let extra water flow
back into the sump (but I do not want all that extra un-needed
noise!)
<Nor energy consumption, moving water that does nothing.>
I wanted to just return the pump for something that is not so
strong. They said no way, you already used it. Funny part is one of
their employees set the whole unit up for me.
<Yikes!>
I can
send some pictures if that would help but where do you think my
problem is lying?
<This is purely a pump vs. overflow capacity
issue.>
I have already been without adequate filtration for about
5 days and going. I have invested hundreds and hundreds of dollars
here. I am sure you can understand my frustration. I haven't even
been able to really enjoy the tank yet. My birthday is Monday so the
soonest I can get back up to the store is Tuesday so now we are
adding a few more days with crappy filtration. I would like to go up
there really knowing where my problem is so I can fight my case.
Thank you sooo much!
Jamie
<I urge you to consider the option
of drilling this tank for a true gravity fed overflow. Two 1 ½”
drains will do the trick here. I have included a link of yours truly
drilling to give you an idea of what is involved. If you are not
comfortable doing so, you should consider adding a second CPR unit
like the one you have already. This will give you more flow capacity
and allow you a certain amount of redundancy if one fails (keep in
mind your flow is out flowing one unit). The addition of an
Aqualifter or RVT powerhead is highly recommended to use with these
types of overflows. You will still need to keep the pump throttled
back, but not as much. Good luck, Scott V.>
http://www.momsfishsupply.com/drilling_video.html
Re: More Overflow Woes 2/24/08
The guys at the fish store
told me that this over flow turns that fish tank water over 10 times
and hour and moves something like 1200 - 1500 gallons per hour.
<It does not, as you are experiencing.>
You are saying 600. Why
such a huge difference between what you are saying and what they are
saying?
<Many factors, most notably the “urban myth” of what a
1” bulkhead can flow. The fact of the matter is the bulkheads in
this unit limit your flow.>
Why would they sell me such an over
powerful filter...didn't they realize it would cause me problems?
<Apparently they didn’t know…or did not care.>
I really have
kinda amazed out what I can afford to put into this tank. We just
bought a new house which is becoming more of a strain on cash. Would
simply going to a less powerful Mag pump be the key to my solution
here?
<It will solve the overflowing problem, though you will
lose that potential for flow.>
If so what should I look for.
<Something that pumps around 600 gph or less at your head height.
Maybe a Mag 7 or possibly 9 throttled back a little.>
I have a
protein skimmer that does 250 gallons per hour inside the sump and a
Magnum hang on the back canister (which I love because the current
it puts out is soooo nice and it is easily cleaned every 2 weeks).
Plus I have some internal pumps to move water and help with
circulation.
<Good.>
My fish population is very low and will
not increase. (Lunar wrasse 8 inches, Rock beauty 5
inches, twin
spot hog fish 4 inches, and a true percula clown plus a host of
corals).
<I would consider this on the more heavily stocked side
for a 75 gal.>
Also how do I go about leveling this tank? It has
over 150 pound s of live rock, 150 pounds of live sand and is filled
with water! (AHHH) What does that unlevelness mean for the working
state of the filtration?
<It is more an issue of safety. If the
tank is too far out of level it can put undue stress on the glass in
ways the tank is not designed to handle. A tank can take this to a
point, it is better to just ensure it is level. See the link at the
bottom for info on how and why to do this.>
Thank you very much
for all of your help.
<You are welcome.>
PS I really do not
think I could put another CPR on the back of the tank...with all the
pipe work and the protein skimmer being inside the sump I just do
not think that I have room. It is hard enough to maneuver the
protein skimmer it barely fits inside the tank stand. Thank you
again for your help.
<Understood…the pain of finding space in a
reef tank! You will simply need to reduce your flow if you cannot
add more draining capacity. Good luck, Scott V.>
http://wetwebmedia.com/aqstdleveling.htm |
AWFUL bulkhead gurgling.
Overflow Gurgling 2/11/08
Greetings gang!
<Wuf.>
I am
having an awful issue with gurgling. After a fun-filled weekend of
trying to get my 65 gallon tank drilled (read sarcasm in this), I
FINALLY got it done.
<It is what counts!>
I have 2-1" bulkheads
installed, with a Mag 7 in sump. The return line is "T'ed" off into 2
loc-line outputs. The new setup looks a TON better than the previous
clunky clear overflow box I was using, BUT I am having one last issue
with it (go figure).
<Growing pains.>
My drain lines gurgle. And
gurgle. And gurgle. No stopping it. And it's driving me NUTS. To be
honest, I can't even leave it running for the fear of angering my
neighbor. Yes, it's THAT loud.
<Is it gurgling or flushing?>
I
know the air getting sucked into the vortex going into the tube is
causing it, but I cannot get it to stop to save my life. I've shoved a
piece of airline tubing in it to try and 'break up' the vortex, but
obviously it didn't work (otherwise, I wouldn't be writing this!).
Any suggestions would be great. I would like to be able to sleep without
having to use ear muffs. :-(
-wuf
<Two things can cause
gurgling/flushing noises. First is if the intake of the drain is exposed
to the atmosphere. This will cause the noise of the water traveling
through the line itself to be heard. This is why you see the PVC elbows
pointing down on most overflows. The other is a siphon or partial siphon
in the drain line. This will cause all sorts of noises, some
sporadically. You will need to drill the PVC drain intake at the point
that it starts going down to your sump for the airline tubing (I would
actually get a bit larger tubing for this). Be sure to drill it to fit
fairly snug. From this point you will want to slide the tubing up and
down until you find a point at which it will eliminate this siphon
effect. Good Luck, Scott V.>
Bulkhead leak 2/2/08 2/3/08
My 4 year old tank has a
small drip coming from one of the bulkheads.
<Uh-oh.>
All-Glass
tank with built-in overflows, using their own brand of overflow parts
(stock stuff, nothing customized). How do I fix this?
<If it has gone
four years and all of a sudden started leaking you likely need a new
bulkhead (could be cracked) or at least gasket.>
Do I need to drain
the entire 125 gallons to repair?
<No, you should be able to drain it
below the top of the overflow box, drain the overflow and then replace
the bulkhead/gasket. Good luck, Scott V.>
Overflow Issues…Sluggish Drain Lines – 09/30/07
I just recently
moved and set up my 125 Gal. tank with a 29 Gal. refugium.
<<Neat>>
About a week after having it all run smoothly, the tank has started
overflowing.
<<Uh-oh>>
I have two Durso Standpipes on opposite
corners of the tank using 1" piping. The two overflows were joined at a
T-fitting, which led to a ball valve, then a 45 degree coupling at the
end, which is about 3-4 inches below the top of the water line of the
overflow section of the refugium/sump.
<<Mmm, I see…having the two
drain outlets conjoin at the “ T “ reduces the overall drain capacity of
the pair as you have reduced all to a “single” one-inch drain from that
point on>>
I have a Pentair Quiet One 3000 (780 GPH) running the
return line on 3/4" piping. After it started overflowing the tank
yesterday, I re-plumbed the overflow to allow both lines to run
independently into the sump at about the same depth in the sump.
<<Ah, good>>
This didn't seem to have much effect.
<<Hmm…something
else must be amiss. After subsequent head-loss, I would expect the flow
rate of your stated pump to be fine for the two 1” drains (figure a
maximum of 300gph per drain)>>
So, I tried to silicone the vent holes
on the top of the end caps, which kept the overflow from draining at
all.
<<Yes, an escape route for the entrained air is a necessity. You
might even try some experimentation with inserting differing lengths of
rigid tubing in to these vent holes to see if you can find where the air
is trapped/building and thus most efficiently expelled/released,
allowing more water down the drain>>
So, I gradually enlarged the
vent holes. I noticed that one end (the end that is closest to the
overflow section of the sump and flows nearly straight downward into
it.) has a smaller vent hole, and drains at a much slower rate than the
other end.
<<Hmm, sounds like maybe the designer of the system was
trying to “balance” the flow rates between the two drains…which would
only be possible by limiting the flow in one, thus reducing the overall
rate even further (less than the 600gph max stated earlier)>>
Could I
have a snail impeding the flow that severely on that one end?
<<Is a
possibility, yes>>
And if so, how do I convince it to get out?
<<It will likely require disassembly of the standpipe or “poking” it out
with some type of flexible instrument (semi-rigid plastic tubing)>>
Or is it more likely that my plumbing skills really suck?
<<Hard to
say without more information on your plumbing configuration. But try
removing the standpipes and see how the tank drains…if you’re lucky, any
re-engineering may just be limited to these>>
Any suggestions you
have are greatly appreciated.
<<It may well be that your plumbing
design/configuration limits the drain capacity of these outlets more
than realized. Once you determine there are no blockages (snails) in the
lines, install a gate-valve on the output side of the pump and adjust
the to where the drains can handle the flow and see if this is
suitable…a flow of only a few hundred gallons per hour through the
refugium should still be fine>>
Thank you,
Jules (Portland,
Oregon)
<<Happy to share. EricR (Columbia, SC)>> <Bigger drain
lines... RMF>
Corner Overflow Modification 9/12/07
I have a 90 gal and in the
process of starting it over since I had a problem with algae.
The
corner overflow acts like a tomb for crabs when they crawl up the
overflow and fall down and in between. They die or something, trapped
with no escape....
<Mmm, how can they crawl up the overflow, are
they from the Batman family?:)>
I want to cut these baffle slits out
with a Dremel and if I ever do add fish I can stuff rolled up fine mesh
to prevent the fish from up drafting.
The sump is equipped with a
bag filter so any critters are easily removed on bag replacement and
placed back. Would it hurt to cut these slits out? Flow may even
improve.
<Shouldn't hurt any. I cut a few of mine out to improve
flow. James (Salty Dog)>
The aquarium is well out of its warranty so
that's moot.
Rescue fish trapped in corner overflow 8/21/07
Hello. I
have three small fish (blue Chromis, percula clown, and small blue hippo
tang) trapped in the right?
<???>
overflow? of my 180g dual
overflow tank. The intake and return pipes in the overflow ?make it very
difficult to net them. I would like to rescue them and? keep them alive.
They swim to the top every once in a while, but I've failed in my
attempts to get them. Any suggestions? Can I flood the overflow to force
the water over the top?
Thank you,
Sol W.
<Turn off, drain the
part of the system and net back into the main tank? Screen? the intake?
Bob Fenner?>
Re: rescue fish trapped in corner overflow – 08/21/07
Thank you
for your quick response. My other question is that when I drain part of
the system, and refill the main tank, should my return pump be off or
on, since i am trying to force water over the top of the overflow back
into the tank, and hopefully the three fish along with it??
<Mmm, my
friend... you need to turn all off, drain this line, and remove these
fishes... possibly with just your wet hand. RMF>
Mis-Balanced Overflows/Closed-Loop – 07/02/07
Hello!
<<Howdy>>
I have a RIO 2100 that was in my Miracle wet-dry that I replaced with a
Mag 7.
<<Okay>>
I went to put the RIO back in the wet dry/sump,
(no bio balls) and the water overflowed in my tank.
<<This was in a
addition to the Mag-Drive pump?…overwhelmed the overflow drain>>
Ok I
shut it off went out bought an intake hose and box cause I figured there
wasn't enough water to the sump.
<<Siphon overflows, eh? Always a
good idea to have more than one>>
So I set up the extra intake for
the sump and now the sump over flows.
<<Something doesn’t make sense
here. It doesn’t matter how many overflow drains you have on the tank,
the total volume “drained” to the sump won’t exceed the volume of water
being pushed to the tank by the return pumps. With the pumps off, the
sump should hold the transient water volume without overflowing (if not,
the working water height in the sump is too high, the overflow boxes in
the tank are positioned too low, or likely a combination of the two).
This is the “static” water level within the sump. When you turn the
pumps on, the water level in the sump should fall until enough water is
pumped to the tank overflows to drain back down to the sump at the same
rate it is being pumped. At this point the water level in the sump is at
its “working” height. If this is too low (i.e. – the pumps are sucking
air/causing bubbles), merely adding more water to the sump will cause
the sump to overflow when the pumps are off. You will need to experiment
with the height of the skimmer boxes in the display tank to allow you to
add more water to the sump to keep the pumps adequately submerged, but
not overflow same when the pumps are off. You don’t mention the
dimensions of your sump, but another possibility here is that this
vessel is merely too “shallow” for its intended purpose>>
All I want
is to get rid of the dumb power head in the tank and use my RIO 2100 to
pump from a closed-loop to circulate.
<<Mmm, do you understand what a
closed-loop really is? Please read here and among the links in blue:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbretfaq3.htm>>
Please help.
<<Am
trying…>>
It's a 54 corner so I have limited room underneath but I
even tried to use a bucket for the loop with pump to no avail.
<<Understood, but what you are trying to achieve (closed-loop) will
likely not be possible utilizing a siphon overflow>>
Thanks
<<Welcome. EricR>>
Need help with a tank stand--can't tighten bottom bulkheads due to wood
center brace 6/20/07
Hi there,
I'm hoping you can help
me. I have a Perfecto 150-gallon glass aquarium whose dimensions are:
48" long, 24" wide and 30" tall. The tank has plastic center braces on
the top and bottom. The stand for the tank is wood and supports it fully
around all edges; the top is fully open but with a wood center brace
running vertically through the center.
Recently I had the tank sent
out to an aquarium company to have the glass bottom drilled for two
bulkheads along with an internal overflow box installed. I just got the
tank back today, and they did a beautiful job. However, when the tank
was set back on its stand, the wood center brace on the stand was too
wide to allow me to fully tighten the bulkheads underneath.
<Doh!>
I asked the company who did the work what I could do to rectify
this--they said I could notch a cutout in either side of the wood center
brace to accommodate the bulkhead fittings.
<Mmmm>
However, I'm
worried that this will compromise the integrity of the stand--
<Yes>
I don't want it collapsing and spilling 150 gallons of water on the
floor. Could you guys help me out as to what I should do--should I
consult with an engineer first or is it okay to do this modification?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
<Well... likely
a "thinner" nut can be found... or the through-hull/bulkhead fitting
reversed (with the throat up, perhaps shaved, cut down...) and an extra
gasket found for both sides... and a smear of Silastic on both sides...
that will do here... Perhaps with some shaving of the wood twixt the
tank and stand to accommodate... If push comes to proverbial shove, you
might need to consider adhering the (likely PVC) fitting directly onto
the tanks glass... and dedicating yourself to never jarring it...
Otherwise, the worst... giving up on the present holes, sealing over
them (with glass panel/s and Silastic) and having the tank re-drilled. I
agree with your NOT cutting through the manufactured stand support...
UNLESS you feel comfortable (YOU!) with replacing this support (and
losing the manufacturer's warrantee) with two new ones, placed on either
side... Which is really what I'd do... Cheers, BobF>
Re: Need help with a tank stand--can't tighten bottom bulkheads due to
wood center brace 6/21/07
Wow! Thanks so much, Bob,
for your kind reply!! I really loved your book, by the way; it really
helped me get started with my tank! Plus I've learned so much by reading
through all the articles and FAQ's from WetWeb Media; you guys are
great! I think I've come up with a plan for my stand. I'd really rather
not mess around with the bulkheads; I only really need to notch the wood
1/4" on either side, but leave the center brace in place, and I think
I'll place two new boards on either side, like you advised. I really
don't want to have the tank re-drilled: it took the company forever to
get the work done; I'd consider getting a new stand before doing that.
Anyway, thank you so much, Bob, you've really helped me out!
<Ah,
good! Cheers, BobF> Hang-On Overflow Noise (Water Volume vs.
Pipe Diameter) – 05/14/07
I just upgraded my 29 gal reef to a
CPR100 overflow and draining into a 10 gal sump. I decided to hard pipe
the overflow in with 3/4pvc and two elbows. No matter how I position
the straight down tube into the sump sock I get the constant sucking and
releasing sound in the box.
<<You are likely trying to push too much
water through the overflow. The 1” bulkhead that comes with the
overflow will only handle about 300gph (yeah, I know they are rated for
more flow...just not practical), by reducing the output diameter to ¾”
as you have done with the PVC pipe you have reduced the flow capacity
even more to about 150gph or so...which is more than enough, by the way,
for this tank/sump combination in my opinion>>
Will the Durso pipe
solve this problem of noise?
<<I have seen what looks like a
modified/compact version of the “Stockman” standpipe for hang-on
overflow boxes (see here: http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-overflow/74.asp),
but whether or not it will help is probably a matter of trial and
error. It may help smooth flow a bit but if you are getting a surge
effect as you describe you will probably have to back off on the pump
output from the sump (easily accomplished with a gate-valve plumbed
in-line after the pump)>>
Even if I put the sump pipe under water it
still makes and ton of noise and I am really trying to understand this
problem. I want the tank to run with the least amount of noise as
possible and the splashing in the sump will be easy to fix if I can get
the overflow to stop sucking and making gurgling noises. Any other
suggestions?
Thanks.
Will
<<Definitely sounds like a case of
too much water volume coupled with a too small throughput diameter to
me. Regards, EricR>> Over flow box: air bubbles break siphon
4/5/07
<Hi Brian, Mich with you today.>
Please help!
<Will try!>
I can't find any specific solution to the tiny bubbles
which break my siphon.
<I think I may know what the problem is, but
I have a couple of questions first. Are you using a U tubes or do you
have a continuous siphon overflow box? Do you know where the air
bubbles are coming from? Do you know why you are getting air
bubbles? The attachment is not coming through. Could you resend the
photo? It may be helpful in trouble shooting your problems.>
I've
looked at the provided links for hours and have also done many of my own
searches, and still nothing. Thanks for your time,
<Welcome! -Mich> Over flow box: air bubbles break syphon
4/2/07
Hey guys thanks for getting back so quickly with the
questions! I have an overflow box hooked up to my 45 gallon aquarium.
It feeds to my 10 gallon refugium, and a mag-drive 5 pumps the water
back to my aquarium. To start off, yes, I know I should have had my
tank drilled. My problem is that air bubles get sucked into the
overflow box and gather at the top which eventually breaks the syphon
(see picture attached).
<Didn't come through>
I am required to
keep sucking the air bubbles out using the air line tube attached to the
top of the overflow box. I have to do this every other day in order to
keep it syphoning.
<Dangerous... or at least annoying>
The
problem is that I work out of town on the weekends, and the syphon
breaks every single time I leave. I was wondering what I can do. It
would be cool if there was something that could let the gathered air
bubbles out of the air line tube while not letting air get back in which
would break the syphon. I have tried inserting mesh into the overflow
box's entrance (where the water comes into it form the tank). When I do
this I loose a lot of water flow speed and although the bubbles stop,
this is not the solution I am looking for. I am also concerned with the
lack of growth of the spaghetti Caulerpa in my refugium. I have 36
watt 50/50 compact fluorescent in my refugium which is on the opposite
12 hours as my main tank. I am ready to throw my refugium out my
apartment window! Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks you
guys/girls are the best every time, Brian-
<Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/bubtroubfaqs.htm
and the linked files
above. Bob Fenner> Re: over flow box: air bubbles break siphon
- 04/05/07
Sorry I don't know how to resize the attachment.
<Still not getting the photo. It is very strange. The email is showing
there is an attachment but there is no way to open the attachment.>
To answer your questions so you can answer mine.
<A
question for a question if you will...>
I am using a continuous
overflow box.
<I have used this also and I too
experienced this problem>
The bubbles are created when the water
first enters the overflow box from the aquarium only when the water
level of the water reservoir of the overflow box is lower than the level
1 which I marked on my attachment. While the water level of the
reservoir box is kept higher than the level 1 mark, the bubbles are not
created. The problem is keeping the water level of the reservoir of the
overflow box higher than the level 1 mark using my ball valve and
without overflowing my aquarium. I can usually get the water level of
the reservoir to stay at the level 1 mark for about a day, and then it
slowly decreases. I'm not sure why it doesn't seem that many people
have the same problem as me because when I l search for "bubbles and
overflow box" the problems others have are different. Maybe I am doing
something wrong. Well obviously not right!
<I think so. I'm not
totally clear on how you have things set up, but I think I understand
enough to offer some suggestions. A couple of options. You can get an
"Air Lifter" pump and attach it via airline tubing to the knob. This
will continuously remove any air which gets stuck in the top of the
overflow. The pump sits on the top of the overflow and does not get
submerged. Or you can use a power head which has a venturi feature.
Again connect it to the knob via airline tubing but the powerhead will
need to be submerged in you tank. Either of these will continuously
remove any air build up and you should allow you to complete open you
ball valve. Does this make sense? I have used the air lifter and have
found them to last about a year. I always kept a back up on hand. When
you start having a problem with circulation that you can't figure out,
check the air lifter. It might need to be replaced. It may acts as if
it is working, but I have found over time it looses suctioning ability.>
Thanks again for all the help,
<Welcome! Hope this helps! -Mich> Re: over flow box: air bubbles
break siphon - 04/05/07
<Hello again Brian, Mich here.>
Awesome! You have cured my headache thank you.
<You are
most welcome!>
I did have a venturi powerhead so I tried to mess
with it and couldn't figure out how to incorporate it with the overflow
box, so I did a search online. I came across a forum that said instead
of using a venturi powerhead or an "air lifter" you can just attach
airline tube to the top of the overflow box and start directly siphoning
this to your sump/my refugium. I did this and it works. The air
bubbles are forced to siphon down to my refugium. I think this is
great, but I'm wondering if this is safe (over fill proof). As long as
my tank is safe from loss of power, reverse siphoning from return pump
line, and loss of siphoning from overflow box It should be safe
right? Is there any concerns that you might have about this vs. the
"air lifter" or venturi powerhead.
<My biggest concern
was the airline coming out of the sump and siphoning several gallons of
water onto the floor. Also complicating the matter for me, was airline
tubing looks way too much like a kitty toy. In my house this was way
too tempting. You may be OK if there are no four-legged critters or
little two-legged ones!>
Thanks again,
<Welcome! -Mich>
Brian
AGA Megaflow Overflow Boxes
2/20/07
Dear Crew,
<Hey Phil, JustinN with you today.>
I've looked everywhere and even called AGA and got stonewalled. I need
to make some modifications to my overflow boxes and need to know what
specific
plastic they are made of. AGA tells me it's proprietary
information. They look and feel like ABS though. Does anybody know for
sure?
Thanks for all your help!
Phil Mitchell
<While I don't
work for AGA, nor have prior knowledge other than what I've seen in a
consumer realm (as in, I've never been to their factory floor), I can
say with about 95% certainty this is simply black ABS plastic, as you
state. I'm a little surprised AGA is calling it a trade secret,
actually. Perhaps this is simply to discourage modification of the
original product and voiding of warranty? Hope this helps you! -JustinN>
Overflow Crack ? 12/20/06
Greetings WWM. Am very excited
to be mailing the gods of aquaria.
<"Always thought I'd be an
apostle/disciple"... in my best Superstar voice...>
Lots of info
here - please let me know your feelings ...
<It's very pleasant,
warm down here visiting in FLA... and I'd really like a cool beer... oh,
that's not what you were hoping for>
thanks. Got a reef ready for
fresh water Glasscages 55x23x28 inside-water = 150 net gal with a
modified, (w/lotsa work), 45 gal "pre-made" Glasscages acrylic sump to a
wet-dry. Did my homework, it's been three months of work, used sched 80,
silicone and glue in all the right places. It is on the main floor, 3/4
in. Brazilian mahogany, over a weight bearing wall, finished basement
below - usa homeowners insurance no coverage (unless
vandals/fire/nature).? Any recommend?
<Mmm, call your agent here re
coverage itself>
Used double felt on floor under oversized 5/8 in.
plywood foot under modified, (w/lotsa work), wood cabinet carefully
leveled/flat with linoleum, (felt allows easy sliding everything without
water-nice).
<Good tip>
Used 3/4 in. pink foam (as per
Glasscages 90 day warr) and linoleum between stand and tank, to make
flat/level. The tank, (very euro braced), is very flat/level all four
sides, with or without water, as measured on the top plastic trim and/or
glass. Top of water to inside bottom of euro glass is 1 1/8 in. all four
corners. Have two center-end, three-side 7x10x29 in. overflows with two
1 1/2 + 1 in. bulkheads ea.
<Mmm, wish these were larger inside
diameter... even if fewer in number>
Tank glass is 1/2 in, overflows
and euro brace surrounding the bottoms of overflows, etc is 3/8 in. Used
1 1/2 in deep half in. Mex Beach grey-black pea gravel - beautiful.? Is
it ok?
<For?>
Have had water in it for two months. Ultimately
did the fish free cycle thing with 2-5 ppm ammonia (Ace Janitor Ammonia
- comes @ 10% strength) 1 tbs at a time until nitrate spike.
<Mmm,
such exogenous ammonia can be made to be of use...>
Took three weeks
and worked great. Three ppm ammonia vanishes in two days now. Am
planning to get all the fish together from the distributor in one visit,
via the best LFS, (fish will never be in the LFS tanks, they recommended
this - sounded good), and put them all in at one time, (after major
water change).? Think this will work?
<Mmm, possibly... hopefully
no, little nitrogenous, other cycling issues... You're doing this to
lessen the chances of agonistic behavior? To save time, money on
freight? What re quarantine procedures?>
... so ... After six weeks
of water, the side of an overflow cracked from the bottom outside
corner, where the tank bottom meets the side, up 10 inches at a 45
degree angle, towards the center of the tank, across the whole width of
the side of the overflow. The overflow trickle leaks into the overflow
only, at the crack, when empty. There is no outside leak. This means if
there is a power failure, the 29 in high homemade 1 1/2 in. Durso
standpipe will drain the tank down about five inches from top, (to the
bottom of the inverted trap/street L), overflowing the wet dry sump by
maybe 20 gals. The Glasscages recommends drain, cut out the caulking ...
silicone a glass patch to the inside or outside of the cracked pane, and
re-caulk.
<Yes... this is what I would do as well>
They say this
normally happens because of homeowner leveling/flattening problems. Wish
I could find an angle off on this stuff so I could correct it and have
more confidence.?
<Mmm, floors under load are often different then
when tanks are empty... a good idea to fashion something... at least a
piece of plywood under all to even all out a bit... better to make a
more standard support (two plus by...) and set the tank/stand on this...
But, it may well be that an investment in a structural engineer is in
your future here.... See your "Yellow Pages"...>
Am hopeful it was
just a glitch, like a pre-existing crack/chip, or glass
measurements/tolerances off, or forgot/didn't put enough silicone under
that piece - oops. Is this a coin flipper, or what do you guys think?
<Glass Cages make good products in my estimation... Impossible to tell
re all the work from here>
Will wait for your wisdom before I do
anything ... and ... I have a fish dream.
<"Brothers and sisters">
Am starting them together as juvenile's. 5 veil angels, 8 boesemanni
rainbows, 8 Congo's, 5 clown loaches, 3 Bala's(-or-3 tinfoil barbs), 1
gold Severum, 1 stripe headstander, 1 red hook silver dollar, and 3
Siamese algae eaters.? Is this a good load for my 175 net gals? How
would you modify?
<Mmm... well... I'd settle on either a more calm
(centering on the Angels) or brisk (Tinfoils and Red hook) mix/theme
here...>
... aanndd ... Am planning a battery back-up to run an air
stone. Could you recommend a comparable/ better air pump than the super
Luft 38 - 22w (also, to put in the cabinet to keep the moisture down,
and run a stone with a one way check valve)?
<There is no better
choice IMO>
... Is there a comp/better heater than a won bro
titanium pro? ... Is there a recommended battery air pump? ... Mucho
Thanks for your help, Andy
<I do like this heater... Bob Fenner>
Air Bubbles in MegaFlow Return - 12/08/06
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
You have a great website!
<<Thank you>>
Q: I bought a 95-Wave
Aquarium from All-Glass Aquarium. The system came with the All-Glass
Aquariums MegaFlow Overflow Accessory Kit. After I start the system
everything is working fine but I noticed that the system was pumping
small air bubbles into the tank. After a while I realize that the "3/4"
elbow" has a little hole that is placed on purpose.
<<To stop
back-siphoning when the pump/power is off, yes>>
This small hole is
an anti-siphon feature in the event of a power outage.
<<Ah...I
should read ahead *grin*>>
When I close (using my finger) the little
hole the bubbles will stop.
<<Try positioning the outlet pipe such
that the "hole" is "just below" the surface of the water. This should
stop it from entraining air with the water stream>>
I have seen
these systems working in other aquariums and it seems to work fine, (no
air bubbles).
<<Likely the outflow pipe was positioned as I
described>>
Can you help me realize what is wrong with the ¾ elbow?
<<Give my suggestion a try. If it is not possible to position the
"hole" below the water line, then block the hole and position the pipe
outlet shallow enough that the sump can handle the transient water in
the event of a power outage>>
Best regards,
Luis Miguel Ferrero
<<Cheers mate, Eric Russell>> Re: Air Bubbles in MegaFlow
Return - 12/11/06
Howdy Eric,
<<Hello Luis>>
I did what
you recommended me and everything is working fine.
<<Ahh, very good
to hear>>
Thanks!
<<You're quite welcome>>
Nevertheless, the
weekend I reviewed other systems that utilize the same Overflow and
notice that although the water level did not cover the small orifice it
wasn't throwing air bubbles into the tank. (?)
<<Hmm...perhaps those
systems are utilizing smaller pumps/less powerful flow...or maybe the
holes were "plugged">>
Rgds.
Luis Miguel Ferrero
<<Cheers,
EricR>>
A possible Solution to noisy Overflows... not
likely a good trade-off 4/26/06
Hi There,
<Howdy>
Not a question but maybe a solution. I frequently see queries relating
to noisy overflows and having spent months trying to solve such a
problem would like to share my solution.
<Good>
My
setup is 50 Gallon tank with a siphon overflow box. I could not get any
substantial flow rate without a lot of noise, gurgling and air. I tried
aspirating with airline which made a small difference. I installed an
aquasilencer which is basically a modification of a Durso standpipe for
a siphon box, again with some reduction in noise. However I was still
not achieving the rate of flow I wanted.
By decreasing pump output
you will reach a point where almost all noise disappears but this will
be at a less than desirable flow rate, particularly if you are trying to
run a Miracle Mud sump for which Ecosystem recommend up to 15 times
turnover. Consider this flow rate the "quiet flow rate"
My
solution; Increase output from the pump to as much as the overflow will
deal with; ignore the noise and bubbles for now. You now have the
maximum flow rate the overflow can handle.
<...>
Take a length of 3/8 or 1/2 inch tubing and run it from the overflow box
to the sump and start a siphon. This siphon is silent. You may need a
second piece or a wider bore tube. Basically you want the tube to carry
the difference between the "quiet flow rate" and "maximum flow
rate". If the tube blocks or loses siphon there is no risk of flooding
as the main overflow can handle the total flow rate albeit noisily, and
you'll know as soon as you enter the room that something is up.
<...
what if the pump quits for whatever reason? The siphon will drain the
tank to the siphon intake depth... overflow the sump...>
It may not
be a conventional solution and I have not seen it recommended on WWM
before but it turned a noisy intrusive marriage wrecker into a soothing
trickle in the corner, so worth a go!
David
<... I'd think this
over a bit... Bob Fenner> Re: A possible Solution to noisy
Overflows 4/26/06
Hi Bob,
<David>
No , the
siphon tube cannot empty the tank as it is draining from the overflow
box
<Oh... thank you for this>
so depending on the size of the
box it can only move a few litres to the sump. In a "self-starting"
style siphon overflow box ,if the end of the tube is kept above the
level of the bottom of the primary siphon tube the unit will not "lose"
it's ability to restart in the case of a power outage.
<I
see/understand. Mis-read>
I have this up and running and cannot find
a logical flaw in the process.. however there is always someone out
there who will and I'd be happy to deal with it.
David
<Does
seem/read as a worthwhile "work-around"... though it would be better to
aspirate the existing drain line/s from the overflow or increase this...
or add another... or drill the tank... Bob Fenner> Re: A possible
Solution to noisy Overflows - 04/26/06
Hi Bob,
<David>
Yes, I agree, drilling the tank would be the best option but not one
available to me. Of the MANY lessons I have learned from setting up
this small tank, in advance of my "ideal" tank, one is that you cannot
have enough overflows and in fact am looking at the possibility of
incorporating a full length weir flowing directly into the sump in my
next tank.
<Neat>
I have tried aspirating the overflow but the
results are nowhere near as impressive as the additional siphon.
<Thank you for this additional input>
Keep up the good work.
David
<Am trying! BobF>
180 AGA with twin overflows
question - 05/19/2006
Hello WWM Crew,
Love your
site. Your FAQs are always the first place I look when I have aquarium
questions, and I couldn't seem to find the answer to the issue I am
facing with my brand new 180gal (6'x2'x2') AGA with twin Mega-Flow
overflows and an AGA Model 4 Sump.
The tank is built
into the wall in my basement, on a DIY stand made from 4x4s, 2x4s,
plywood, and carriage bolts. The concrete basement floor is not level,
but I purchased a 4' carpenter's level to help me with properly leveling
the aquarium. I spent the better part of an afternoon leveling,
filling, draining, shimming, and re-leveling the aquarium until I've
reached the point where I am satisfied that the tank is level. The
bubble is inside the lines no matter where I place the carpenter's level
on top of the aquarium.
Here comes my
problem, I fill the tank up and the water spills over the overflow
boxes, but the left overflow box seems to fill up faster than the right
overflow box. Does this mean that my tank is still not level? It took
the right overflow box almost another full minute to fill to the point
where the water drained down the Durso standpipe into the sump.
Could this be an issue with the way my tank was manufactured, as in
maybe one overflow box was off by a few MMs when it was
assembled/siliconed? Or is it more likely that my tank is still not
"perfectly" level? Is this something that I should be concerned
about? Will this reduce my flow significantly out of the right overflow
box into the sump?
Any thoughts you may have are greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
<<Dave: I have the same tank on a
stand. While I don't have stand pipes, my overflows seem to drain about
the same. It could also be the height of the teeth at the top is
different or the number of teeth on one side versus the other. If you
are convinced that your tank is level (you might want a second opinion
from someone else to make sure), then everything will probably be
OK. Another test of whether it is level or not might be performed by
measuring the height of the water to the top of the tank with a ruler
around various points. If it's the same, you're probably level. Best
of luck, Roy>> Overflow Not Skimming - 07/04/06
Hey Crew-
<<Hey Brenton!>>
It's been a while so I guess that's a good thing!!
<<Hee!>>
I have a 100G reef and a 55G refugium tank going into a
wet/dry box. In my 100G the skimmer box/overflow works great, but the
setup with the 55G tank's skimmer box/overflow doesn't work as well as
it should.
<<Hmm...perhaps due to decreased flow vs. the display?>>
It seems that I can't get the water level inside the skimmer box low
enough for the surface tension to be broken before going out through the
U-tube.
<<...?>>
If I look at the surface of the water from
underneath I can see what looks like an oil slick covering the entire
surface, except for a little area where my return U-tube is located.
<<But this "slick" is only in the skimmer box, not on the surface of the
refugium, yes? Little concern if so...is being mixed/drawn out>>
The water level in my 55G is only 1/4" higher than the level in the
skimmer box. The difference in my 100G tank is almost 3".
<<Differences in flow rates>>
I have a Model 7 pump feeding the 100G
(1" overflow tube) and a Model 3 (350 GPH) going to the 55G (1" and a
3/4" overflow tube, yes 2 tubes at once). Without the 2 overflow tubes
the skimmer box "floods", meaning the water level of the tank equals
that of the skimmer box.
<<Mmm...obviously the siphon on the display
is much more efficient than those on the 'fuge. Perhaps studying these
will reveal the problem>>
Is this pump too powerful for the amount
of water in the tank?
<<Has nothing to do with the size of the
tank...my guess is it's a function of the position of the refugium
(height above the sump) and the design efficiency of the plumbing...or
lack thereof <grin> >>
With the DSB I think I only added 25-30G of
actual water.
<<Shouldn't matter, the 1" pipe should be able to
easily drain the input from the 350 gph pump>>
When I bought the
pump I didn't take the reduced volume of water into account, and now
think I should have gone with the Model 2 (250 GPH). Any ideas on how I
can remedy this problem?
<<Look to the plumbing, see if you're
trapping air somewhere. I really don't feel it's a matter of "pump"
size>>
Thanks as always.
Brenton,
San Francisco
<<Always
welcome, EricR...in MUGGY South Carolina Water
Noise vs. Flow Rates - 06/30/06
Hi!
I am looking for a
solution to eliminate noise from the overflow.
<<A very common
venture>>
I tried everything and I started to believe a silent
overflow is a myth.
<<Hee! Indeed! At least at the "higher" flow
rates>>
Now there is a way and it would be to dramatically reduce
the flow rate.
<<This is what I always advocate. There are other
things you can do to help...such as aspirating the return lines,
submerging/adding ells to the termination ends, etc. ...but reducing
flow probably makes the single largest difference. Few hobbyists (if
any) need to push 1500gph or more through their sump. Much easier to
deal with a sub- 1000gph flow rate here...employing other methods for
increased flow in the display as/if necessary>>
I have reached the
point where it's either that or get rid of the sump and install an
external skimmer.
<<Mmm, let's work on quieting that overflow...>>
Right now the skimmer is in the 1st chamber of the sump. There is
already good circulation in the display (15X per hour) from 2 Tunze
Stream 6100 with a multicontroller.
<<Excellent! Reducing flow
through the overflow/sump should not be an issue then>>
I do a 5%
weekly water change. Most of the sump (25 gal) is in fact a fuge for
plankton/pod production and macro-algae.
<<All the more reason to
keep it>>
Display is 90 gal reef with 150lbs Fiji LR and sugar fine
5"
DSB. In these circumstances do you see any long term problems
involved in having a flow rate from the return pump of only 6X per day
instead of 6X per hour?
<<Mmm...if I understand you, this would
equate to just over 20gph (540gph divided by 24hrs). This is slower
than I like, but I think a flow rate of 200gph-300gph would be
fine...and easily dealt with/made quiet>>
If I may ask at the same
time a bioload question.
<<Sure>>
I am thinking of some change
and would like to know if this is too many fish.
<<Okay>>
Is
this a heavy bioload with my set-up, would I be on the edge? :
-2
Ocellaris
-5 to 7 Chromis viridis
-1 clown goby (Gobiodon
histrio)
-1 mandarin
-1 Tailspot blenny (genus Ecsenius)
-1
yellow tang (Z. flavescens)
<<This would indeed fill you up. I
would like to suggest you forego the mandarin. This tank isn't really
large enough (refugium or not) in my opinion to be able to provide the
necessary nutritional needs for this fish for the long term. I would
also suggest you keep the number of Chromis to 5, until you see what (if
any) behavioral/environmental issues develop>>
Lastly, would an
Ecsenius blenny (like the Tailspot) be helpful to control Caulerpa
growth in the display?
<<I doubt it...the Combtooth blennies are
more "filamentous" algae feeders. The tang will probably be more useful
for this purpose, though there's no guarantee of that either>>
And
what about a tuxedo blue urchin (Mespilia globulus) for that same
purpose?
<<A neat critter...and likely a worthwhile addition...but
it too will probably go for your hair, and most assuredly your
coralline, algae first. You best bet re removal of the Caulerpa is
manual extraction. If you can manual reduce it enough, the tang might
be able to keep it in check for you. I guess you'll know better than to
add this to your display next time, eh! <grin> >>
Many many thanks!
Dominique
<<Quite welcome. Regards, EricR>>
Re: Water Noise vs. Flow Rates 7/1/06
Thanks
Eric!
<<You're very welcome Dominique>>
The Caulerpa I didn't
add to the display and not even to the fuge as I am using Chaetomorpha
and red Gracilaria instead.
<<Ah yes, much better choices in my
opinion. I utilize Chaetomorpha in my refugium myself>>
It just
appeared there uninvited and in two species.
<<Hate it when that
happens...>>
Regarding the mandarin I have to say I kept one for 7
months and it was still fat, but it jumped out of the tank.
<<Hmm,
I've never known/heard these fish to be jumpers. Would make me think
environmental conditions/tank mates were not suitable for it...possibly.
Please don't misunderstand my tone here <grin>, but the vast majority of
these fish "slowly" starve to death within twelve months. There's
always exceptions, and of course those few dedicated hobbyists (maybe
you're one of these!) that strive to provide suitable care/environments
for these fish...but for the majority of folks, Synchiropus species are
best left in the ocean. If you're determined/dedicated to keeping this
fish, please research all you can re their care/husbandry on our site
and the net in general>>
This made me place a net in an anodized
aluminum frame over the top of the tank so it won't ever happen
again. So to summarize your answer: bioload should be ok (I won't get
more than 5 Chromis) and even thought it's not ideal I should not have
problems with the 20gph flow rate.
<<Indeed...a couple hundred
gallons per hour at least. If noise is still an issue, do write back
and I’ll gladly address this with you further>>
Thanks again!
Dominique
<<Cheers my friend, EricR>> Equipment...Tank
Modification 8/19/06
Hey guys/gals...
<Hello
Dave>
This may be my fastest question yet...
<And, my fastest
answer.>
and I'm pretty sure you don't have anything posted on your
resources.
I have a pretty standard 90 gallon that's been running
for 4yrs. I want to start getting into corals and am taking the
necessary steps to accommodate them. I bought a Tunze Wavebox thinking
that the massive yet gentle flow back and forth would be great for the
corals...
<Is>
however, my corner overflow in the tank was built
a touch too high. I have about 2cm of room between the water top and
the lip of the top border around the tank. Tunze recommends a MINIMUM
of 5cm. I don't want to drain the tank and have the overflow ripped
out. The plastic (or whatever it is) border on the top that includes
the lip for which to place the glass covers (do u <you> know what I am
talking about?)...
<Yes>
from what I've seen, most tanks have
them. Can this be easily knocked off the top or removed??
<If you
are talking about the black/oak trim on the top of the tank,
<<Is
not... is talking re the inside structure for the tank's overflow... if
plastic of some sort this can be cut, though not easily... I would drain
the tank to do this... many bits of plastic otherwise... RMF>>
(glass tank I presume??) this small lip that supports the glass can be
removed to accommodate the space the wavemaker needs. Is this is what
you have in mind? Have you ever heard of anyone building more height
onto their tank?
<No, not safely.>
I'd like another inch or inch
and a half. Note, the water level would never be higher than the
original sturdy glass... the extra inch or so of glass would merely
serve as to accommodate the little 5cm water movement from the
wave. Any suggestions, comments, advice??
<I'd contact Tunze with
the above question, get some input from them. http://www.tunze.com/117.html?C=US&L=1>
If not... would a Tunze Wavebox have any outstanding benefit in a fish
only predator tank of 200 gallons?
<Yes, very beneficial. Will help
keep detritus/waste suspended for more efficient removal from the
tank. Also has a cleansing effect on the rocks, corals, etc. James
(Salty Dog)>
Dave Overflow Noise/Glass Scratches -
08/15/06
Hi,
<<Hello!>>
I have a 54G RR Corner tank with
a 1" drain and a 3/4" return.
<<Sadly undersized throughputs...even
on this volume of water>>
I bought the whole reef set up used, but I
can't imagine how the previous owner tolerated the noise!
<<Mmm,
indeed...you can't really put much water through a 1" drain before it
becomes problematic>>
I installed a 1.25" Durso standpipe (1" did
not work, now I follow directions, doh!). I have a 1/8" drilled hole in
the top of the T of the Durso. It was fascinating to watch the
relationship between the air hole size, the drain line position relative
to the sump water level, and the gurgling and flushing effect.
<<Ah
yes, you are finding out just how "fiddly" it can be. I would like to
suggest you try enlarging the hole just enough to push some airline
tubing through and down in to the standpipe. This will help with
aspirating/releasing air from the drain line and often eases the
gurgling sounds. It will take some experimentation to determine the
best length/diameter tubing to insert>>
As I slowly increased the
air hole from a pinhole up to 1/8", I observed the step by step decrease
in flushing effect amplitude.
<<Yes...allowing that air
I mentioned to escape more readily>>
It started at about a 3-inch
oscillation, at 1/8, it was gone completely. Adjusting the drain pipe
position also impacted the flushing effect and required small changes in
the air hole.
<<Pretty much all comes down to
eliminating the obstructions (air bubbles) to the water flow>>
OK, on to my questions: I have extensive bubbling/gurgling noise in the
sump from the drain.
<<From air that is "carried" down the line by
the water>>
I have read on WWM two things to try: A "T" or "Y"
fitting on the drain line, and aspirating the drain line from the top
with air line tubing.
<<Yes indeedy...though I prefer a 45- or
90-degree ell fitting on the end of the drain line>>
I am confused
about the specifics of both of these. For the T or Y fitting, how is it
positioned?
<<Is of little consequence...just position to direct
flow in the direction you desire>>
I am guessing that it goes at the
bottom of the drain line, with one leg submerged and one leg above the
sump water level?
<<Mmm, okay...I think I'm with you now. The
purpose of the fitting on the end of the drain line is to "slow" the
rush of water a bit. So...experiment with the position to determine
which gives you best results. Either way you position it, I find that
having the end of the drain line completely submerged usually works
best. And do be aware, it is usually not practical to expect a 1" drain
to flow more than about 300/350 gph without much hassle and noise, as
you seem to be experiencing>>
For the aspiration tubing, is the tube
supposed to have its own hole separate from the existing air line in the
Durso T cap?
<<Refer to my earlier comments re>>
Or does it
simply go down the same hole?
<<Yup!>>
It also seems to me that
the bubble/gurgle would be reduced if I had the water break on some live
rock rubble or other irregular surface.
<<Can give it a try>>
I
think I have seen reference to using filter pad material.
<<A
detritus trap>>
Next question: Even though I only have
about a 2-inch drop from the overflow wall to the top of the water
behind it, it still makes an annoying, trickle noise that induces the
need to visit the bathroom at night (tank is in the bedroom).
<<Hee!>>
I am thinking of installing some kind of stepladder down to
the surface. Or perhaps a piece of filter pad would also suffice. How
have you seen this done?
<<Raise the height of the standpipe to
raise the surface of the water in the overflow...it only needs to "fall"
a fraction of an inch or so>>
Last, the tank is
used, and has a good number of extremely fine scratches that are visible
depending on angle and lighting. I have read that you generally shy
away from glass polishing/buffing, but that usually seemed to be because
the e-mailer was asking about significant/deep scratches. What do you
think about using a commercial buffer on an orbital drill pad, and
follow with a thorough cleaning?
<<I think you'll do one of two
things...nothing at all...or make it worse. Scratches in glass "can" be
repaired/removed, but unless you really know what you're doing/have done
this before, I recommend you refer to a professional for
advice/consultation. You may find it is easier/cheaper to replace the
tank...or learn to ignore/accept the scratches>>
Jack
<<Regards,
EricR>>
Refugium Size/Overflow Surge/Skimmer Adjustment -
08/25/06
Hi Everyone,
<<Hello Diana!>>
I just installed
a Refugium (it is 36"x18"x13" with the refugium being 15"x13" does that
seem big enough for my tank?) on my 150 Gallon reef tank.
<<Whether
this is "big enough" is a question that can't really be
answered...bigger the better as you are probably aware. But the fact it
is there "will" provide benefit to your system>>
I have two pumps in
my return (one for returning water straight back to the tank the other
goes thru the chiller and UV light).
Now here is my
problem.......When I have both pumps running the overflow on one side of
the tank is putting out air thru the hose back into the skimmer area.
<<Is having problems handling the volume...efficiently>>
It seems
like the overflow pipe is filling up to fast with water and the air hole
in the overflow pipe can't keep up so it creates suction. Does this
make sense?
<<Sorta <grin>. What's happening is the volume of water
traveling through the pipe with both pumps running is
trapping/preventing the air in the pipe from escaping efficiently. This
are is then pushed to the sump (the bubbles you see being created there)
and/or building to the point that it surges back up the overflow pipe
(intermittent rushing/flushing sounds)>>
My question is how it comes
that it only does it on one side and when both pumps are running (I
guess I answered that one already since it is putting more water into
the tank with both pumps on).
<<Indeed>>
Now my main question
would be how I can fix this problem? Any help would be appreciated as I
would like to get my water flow going again and make my fishies and
corals happy.
<<The easiest solution would be to install gate-valves
on the "output" side of the pumps and temper the flow down to what the
overflow can quietly and efficiently handle. Another approach is to
"aspirate" the return line by inserting a length of small diameter
tubing (exact diameter and length of insertion will require
experimentation do determine optimum performance) to help with the
escape of entrained air from the line. This method will usually yield
some improvement to water flow but is no panacea on its own and will
probably work best if employed with the addition of the gate-valves as
mentioned previously>>
One other quick question, if you don't mind.
<<Not at all...>>
I just hooked up an ASM G2 Skimmer in my refugium
and I was wondering if there is any hints on how to get it working just
right (as of now I'm only getting greenish water)?
<<Simple
adjustment of the riser-pipe will change the concentration of the
skimmate. If the skimmate is too thin for your liking, adjusting the
riser-pipe "down" will lower the water level in the skimmer body
yielding a thicker skimmate... you will likely have to "play" with the
adjustment a bit to find the desired height/skimmate production>>
Thank You,
Diana
<<Quite welcome. EricR>> Overflow
box problems - 09/03/06
Help
I have a 75 gallon
vertical tank, octagon shaped. I have a wet dry filtration system with
a typical overflow box. Every time I stick my hand into the tank to try
and clean or feed my animals the overflow box stops working.
<Too
touchy for my comfort...>
I know my hand and arm displace water but
it is very frustrating to go through to process of restarting the wet
dry circulation every time I put my arm in the tank.
Any
recommendations?
Frustrated.
<Yes... I'd add another overflow...
Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/overfloboxfaqs.htm
and the linked
files above. Bob Fenner> Overflow, flow, noise... 9/2/05
With a standard (AGA/Oceanic) one inch overflow (on a 90 gallon tank),
would it be correct that about 300 gph is all that can be run through
that (via a Durso) without the up/down flushing effect?
<This is
about it>
I've found my
Panworld 50PX (590 gph max) has to be
ball-valved back probably about 50% to keep it quiet. Wider diameter
pipe before and after the hole really can't do much here, right (the
Oceanic Durso is already upsized)?
<Correct>
The only answer I
assume would be to have a larger hole which isn't going to be an option
for me. Still, heavy in-tank circulation can compensate for this low
flow I presume. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd want a heck of a lot more
flow going through the sump. I appears I'm going to have a hard enough
time quieting the water noise from water crashing into the sump?
<Possibly... there are a few approaches here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbnoisefaqs.htm>
Any clever ways to
quiet the water flowing and crashing in the sump, other than say sinking
the drain line and perhaps having a "T" below the water line in the sump
to both smooth out the flow and break the one flow into many? Like most
folks, I'd like to make things as quite as humanly possible.
<I understand... Please see the link above. Bob Fenner>
Overflow Covers? 3/3/06
Hello,
I have a custom
made Oceanic glass tank. Approximate dimensions are 63"L x 28"W x 50"H.
<! Wowzah... four plus feet tall? Mmm, maybe the stated W and H are
mixed...>
Do you know are there any companies or products out there
that make covers for the overflow box.
<I would check with the
manufacturer here... or resolve to make these yourself (not hard to
do...>
In a tank this large I am having a hard time adequately
covering or hiding the box. Any suggestions?
<Mmm, large stacked
piles of rock decor... fashioning faux material to fit over/around... is
this a marine system?>
Do you recommend gluing any live rock to the
box?
<Good question, and no...>
I really don't know where to go
for ideas. Thanks again for a great site and all of the great
info. You guys rock!!!
Thanks,
Skip
<Check with Oceanic
here for their suggestions, and please relate what they state back to us
for sharing. Thank you, Bob Fenner> Re: Overflow Covers?
3/4/06
Bob,
Thanks for the reply. The dimensions of the tank
are correct. It is closer to a square if you can imagines that look.
<Ooof, I can. Glad I wasn't there for moving day!>
Anyway, I
contacted Oceanic who recommended using epoxy to attach the rock to the
cover.
Why don't you like this idea? I have been given this
suggestion by several dealers now and am always curious to hear the
other argument.
<Mainly the lack of ease of changing this... not
easy, practical to "bust off" later>
Oceanic did give me the name of
an individual in the Dallas area that does them (but it is quite
pricey). They also recommended that I call a
company called
Aquarium Design Group in the Houston area. After some more searching on
the web I did find that brand new this month, Living
Color
www.livingcolor.com, launched a new line of pre-formed overflow covers.
<Oh?>
5 different styles to match your setup. Actually pretty cool.
<Sounds very good>
I did speak with them and they can make
customized versions, although the price was definitely getting up
there. I think I would rather put
the money into other things for
the tank. Anyway hopes this helps.
Will be interested to hear your
answer on epoxy use on the overflow.
Thanks again for all of the
info.
Take Care,
Skip
<Though it's a bunch of stacking... am
still a fan of piled rock. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
- Tank
Modifications -
Good evening/morning folks!
<Morning here...>
Have a quick one for you.
<Promise?>
I am buying a 200 GAL Glass
tank with corner overflows. Unfortunately, as we all know, the
pre-drilled overflows are too small (1" Overflow (2X) and 3/4" Return
(2X)) drilled in the bottom corners in an overflow box. I was
wondering if it would be possible/feasible/advisable to cut a piece of
glass to size, silicone the heck out of it and cover the holes and
re-drill larger holes in the back wall at the water line. Do you
think this would hold?
<Yes.>
Or is it a good place for a leak
to form?
<Should work fine... method has been used to repair tanks
of all types. Don't be stingy with the silicone.>
Was thinking about
drilling (2X) 2" holes for Overflow for corner boxes and (2X) 1.5" holes
for the return in the center back (am planning on also adding a manifold
around the perimeter for extra flow/turbulence). As always, you
folks are the best! Don't know what we'd do without you!
Tom (The
Tool Man)
<Cheers, J -- > Circulation Problems in a Reef
Tank, Needs to Visit Conjunction/Punctuation Junction, too
I am
having a problem balancing the water flow [going] from [the] main tank
to sump, [then] from sump to refuge [that is] above main tank, and [then
back] from sump to main. I have a 58 gallon tank.
<Oh oh...>
I drilled the back glass. I have 2-1" bulkheads about 4" up from bottom
of tank in the center for drains.
<Where?...!>
I also have 2 -1"
bulkheads drilled on the ends of the back glass. 1-about 4" from top of
tank and the other about 6" up from the bottom of tank on both sides.
<?!>
I have a 5 gallon refuge which sits right at the top of the
tank. On the refuge I have a 3/4 bulkhead for water return from sump.
Then [I have] a 1" bulkhead for drain into main tank. I have a Euro-
fill 180 30 gallon sump that set[s] under main tank. Inside main tank I
have an overflow box 19" tall by 8' across 6" from front to back
covering the 2 1' bulkheads. I have two Durso stand pipes connected to
the 1" drains, going with 1 "1/4 pipe for the stand pipes. In the sump I
have an ASM G1-X skimmer. For return pumps I have 2 Rio Hyper Flow 14 HF
power heads; these pumps are rated at 840
gal [gph] at 1', 660 [gph]
at 4'.
I have a 3/4 PVC pipe running up to the two discharges into
main tank. The other pump is hard plumbed to the 3/4
bulkhead in
[the] refuge. I also have a standpipe in refuge to drain back into main
with a baffle where the discharge comes from sump. I tried this, but the
force from the pump was really strong, causing a lot of bubbles in
refuge and main tank, a lot of micro bubbles in main tank. Over all
circulation was good, levels stayed even in all tanks, just a lot of
micro bubbles.
I tried to split the return from pump in sump to
refuge and have 1 discharge go to refuge, 1 to main tank, but because
discharge is higher on refuge than [the] 1 going directly to main tank
that water would go to [the] lowest discharge and would not then go to
refuge also. I then tried using valves to regulate water flow between
the 2 discharges, but when I did this my overflow box began the flushing
effect, [the] system would not balance out. Still had micro bubbles in
main tank. Went back to 1 discharge to refuge, cut the flow back with
valve, still had flushing with drains plus strain on pump. [I] did see a
reduction in micro bubbles in main tank. I tried using 1 pump from sump,
micro bubbles almost gone but barely have any overflow, not sure if this
is enough circulation for corals hard and soft.
For the 2 bulkheads
on each side of [the] drains I made a close[d] loop on each one these,
have a Mag 9.5 hook[ed] to a SCWD - one for surface, one SCWD for lower
jet bulkheads. I do not know how to get rid of the micro bubbles [and]
keep the same flow with the 2 Rio pumps, or if I need to for circulation
[and] supply the refuge [to] keep it balanced with out the flushing and
micro bubbles. I added a another baffle in sump right after [the] drain,
before [the] skimmer, with 2 baffles after skimmer. I really did
not want to use sponges or filter socks. Any Help would be greatly
thankful.
Thanks Jeff.
<Well, you have two issues... the
circulation can be fixed only by re-drilling larger through-puts...
unless you want to greatly reduce water flow... I would NOT have holes
drilled near the bottom of tanks... as the consequences of power outage
or pump failure from below will prove disastrous... Therefore I would
silicone covers over these... The bubbles can be addressed by a few
means... likely the best for you here is the use of Dacron "socks" over
the discharge lines (below)... and baffles to provide air-free water to
your pumps. Bob Fenner> Water Level Fluctuation in Overflow
Dear Crew:
<Paul>
The water level in my overflow fluctuates by
about an inch every 10 seconds.
<... not large enough, water level/s
too low... pump/s too large flow rate/s...>
If the water level drops
close to the opening of the Durso-type standpipe, an irritating suction
sound is generated.
<Yep>
What can be causing this periodic
fluctuation in water level?
<See above>
Why is the flow through
the standpipe not constant?
<Transit volume issue. Your water is
"oscillating" twixt your system above and below... due to insufficient
plumbing, and/or pumping flow>
I have an Oceanic 75-gallon tank with
a "Mega-Flow" overflow and an Oceanic standpipe that is similar in
design to a Durso standpipe. The overflow empties into a 29-gallon
refugium with an Iwaki MD-30RXT pump. I had replaced the Oceanic
bulkheads with PVC connectors to increase the size of the openings by
1/4" and to increase the water flow.
<Good move. You may still need
to add water (take care to measure... with the power turned off... so as
to avoid flooding) to the sump... reduce the flow rate of the pump...
Bob Fenner> Modify Reef Ready
I have a 75 AGA reef ready
tank, it currently has a 1" drain and a 3/4" return.
<Dismally small
fittings>
I'm wanting to increase flow into my sump so I can use a
Mag 24 (36 would be great but probably not possible.) to power a
manifold with 7 tees. Thought I could use the 3/4" return as another
drain to the sump with a Durso standpipe, so I would have a 3/4" and 1"
drain.
<Still way too insufficient... you need two- two inch drain
lines... minimum here>
Now, what can I do/needs to be done to
maximize my reef ready overflow to max out my bulkhead drains (have been
reading that the overflows don't work the best). I'll use the Mag in the
sump. Currently have a velocity T4 external plumbed. Reason for the
modify is I want to increase flow quite a bit but want to remove my
powerheads and not add more... already been established for a few years
so drilling for closed loop is out of question. Thought of using my
return as a manifold.
<... you need to rethink all this... either go
with hang-on overflow boxes, or bite the proverbial bullet... drain the
tank, have it re-drilled. You can read on WWM re... Bob Fenner>
Re: Modify Reef Ready Turnover
Hi Bob:
<May the Force be with
ye!>
Thanks for the quick reply!! In keeping with all the
hoopla...I'm having a Star Wars moment. Actually speaking with the Yoda
of the hobby!!
<Geez, and I can't get Di (wife) out to see Lucas'
sixth and supposedly last in the series... And hey, I'm taller than two
feet, and not quite as green I be>
I think that I was unclear or I am
misinterpreting your answer. I'll give it another try.... When I said
the tank has 2 x 1" overflows, I was only referring to the lines to the
sump. The tank has two separate corner overflows, each with 1" overflow
and 1" return.
<Ahh!>
I'm not sure whether that was clear. Does
this affect your response?
<Indeed it does>
I get the sense that
you were saying that I may be able to get the flow close with the four
holes, but re-drilling would be better.
<Yes>
Thanks again for the
help. Take care, Greg.
<Will endeavor to do I will. BobdaF> -
Fish Overboard, Or At Least into the Overflow -
There are
postings in WWM about fish jumping into the overflow filter, but I have
not found suggestions for how to get them out (without taking down the
whole system).
I have an Oceanic overflow trickle filter in an
Oceanic 72 gallon fish/reef tank. There is an extremely small gap
between the cover glass and the rim of the overflow filter, too thin I
would think for anything to jump through. However, I do remove the cover
glass to clean it once in a while. Perhaps during one of those cleanings
a Percula Clown made the leap into the overflow box. <I had a clownfish
that would end up in the overflow of my 180 Oceanic all the time - once
a day.> He is surviving (the last time I looked), apparently feeding off
food that comes in through the three rows of drain holes at the top,
middle, and near the bottom of the tank.
The box has plumbing inside
it, and the clever Clown hides beneath the plumbing whenever I look down
the box with a flashlight. I only catch glimpses of him. Without the
plumbing, I could use a long handled net and return him to the main
tank. However, even if he did not hide, I have difficulty moving a net
in the free space. Any suggestions short of taking the whole thing
apart? <I actually used to catch mine with my bare hand as it was easier
to do and almost impossible with a net. Move slow and be patient. After
a while, my clownfish got used to it and when I reached my hand in
there, would just stop swimming and let me catch it. Anyway, breaking
down the overflow plumbing would be a pain... would do that as a last
resort.>
I've learned about plastic gutter guard and egg crate and
will be installing that to prevent this from occurring again. Also, I
lost a Nudibranch to suction through the drain holes and am hoping that
the gutter guard will prevent that from reoccurring. Any pointers on
where to find a design for installing the gutter guard and egg crate?
<Probably just use nylon wire-ties... affix over the overflow.> I
understand one is in BOCP1 but can't find it there.
<Cheers, J -- >
- Fish Overboard, Or At Least into the Overflow, Follow-up -
Thanks. <My pleasure.> It makes sense that it would be easier to catch
it with the hand than with the net. Glad to know that others have had
this problem; at least, I know that it is solvable. <Well... both: a
rather common problem and also easily solved. Good luck catching your
fish.
Cheers, J -- > Bulkhead - 07/01/05 actually transit
volume in tank/sump... mis-matched
Good day,
<<Hello!>>
Once again I have only one place to turn to for help. (Thanks again for
all your support and advice).
<<Our pleasure.>>
I have been
struggling with this for days, read a multitude of FAQ's and still can't
figure out what I'm missing. I'm busy setting up my new 150 gallon tank
and I just can't figure out how to make the bulkhead overflows work
properly.
<<Okay?>>
I have 2 x 1.5" (or 40mm) bulkhead fittings
high up in the back wall of the tank. On the inside of the tank nothing
is connected (its just 2 holes with "tank connectors) <<Intake
screens?>> and on the outside it's connected to 90-degree elbows which
connect to the pipes going down to the sump.
<<Sounds fine so far.>>
<T's with their open ends open to the air would be better. RMF>
The
inside diameter of the bulkheads and all pipes is 40mm (or 1.5").
<<Good to hear...bigger the better.>>
I was under the impression
that these 2 simple holes in the tank will easily drain 1000gph, so for
the return pump in my sump I bought something that pumps at 1000gph.
<<Yes, I too would expect the pair to handle 1000gph.>>
Now, when I
switch on my pump in the sump, the following happens - as the water
level rises, it starts flowing into the two drain holes an down into the
sump. However, the draining starts slowly at first and only increases in
tempo as the water level rises.
<<Yes...takes some water pressure to
overcome the air pressure in the lines.>>
When the water level
becomes high enough so that the overflow holes are about halfway
submerged, the overflow starts matching the rate of the inflow from the
pump. The problem is, by this time the return chamber in my sump is
empty and the pump starts sucking in air.
<<Simple matter of your
sump not being large enough my friend. The sump should be big enough to
hold a "working" level/quantity of water IN ADDITION TO the "drain-off"
from the tank when the pump is off.>>
Now unless I'm making a really
stupid mistake somewhere it seems that with these bulkhead overflows you
have to push quite a lot of water into the tank first before the
overflow "kicks in".
<<Laws of physics at work here. You might
ease/help things a bit by aspirating your return lines.>>
Can you
perhaps give some advice here ? How do you normally set up these
bulkhead overflows? I believe that the inside of the bulkhead is
sometimes connected to an elbow that bends up, but unfortunately this is
not an option for me (because the holes are quite high up on the tank
wall).
<<A bottom drilled tank with overflow box "might"
require less water volume to get things going due to rapid build up of
water height (weight) in the overflow box...but you haven't done
anything wrong here, you simply need a larger sump volume of water.>>
Am I just missing some simple concept here or do I just need a much
larger sump to cater for the initial "kick off" of the overflow
(Really didn't think my sump was too small)?
<<I think for this
application your sump is too small.>>
Your help will be very much
appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
<<Regards, Eric R.>> Re:
Bulkhead - 07/02/05
Thanks a lot Eric, I don't know where some
of us would be without your help.
<<Always a pleasure to assist
<G>.>>
Have a good weekend.
<<And you too.>>
Chris
<<Eric R.>>
Plumbing suggestions? 7/21/05
Greetings
Bob and crew...
<Sam>
Suffice it to say that you guys have been
quite helpful in the past, and continue to provide an incredibly
valuable service to the hobby. Thank you.
<Welcome>
I'm getting
really tantalizingly close to being ready for live rock (happy dreams of
LR critters poking around), and just have this one, last plumbing issue
before all of my ducks are in a row. Would like to see if I'm on the
right track.
<Sure>
Here's what I've got. 125 gal tank. 1"
drain,
<Only one?>
with a Durso standpipe. The drain hits a T
which routes water to the sump for processing, and also
splits water
to the refugium, which gravity feeds back into the sump.
Return
water is pushed back to the tank via an Iwaki 30RLT, which is linked to
a SCWD, returning water alternately to two 3/4 inch returns. All
plumbing via vinyl tubing. Limiting factors as I see them are the 1"
bulkhead on the drain, and the 3/4 inch connections on the SCWD,
necessitating 3/4 inch returns. Additional current via a PanWorld 50
PX-X (1100gph) feeding a closed loop.
<I do wish... you
had two 1 1/2" drains, two 1" returns...>
Here's what's
happening. With about four extra inches of water in the sump to prime
the system, I'm able to raise the water level enough that water is
returning via the drain. However, even as the water is returning from
the tank, the pump is pulling enough water that the sump level is
falling below the pump intake, resulting in lots of cavitation.
<Trouble... drain lines too small, sump too little water for transit
volume>
Looking at the 1" drain tubing, its not draining at the
full capacity of the tubing, which is the same diameter as the opening
in the bulkhead.
<... a common misperception... the line doesn't
"suck" water out of the tank... water has to "pile up" higher... drain>
My first thought was that the pump was pushing more water than the drain
was capable of handling.
<In a manner of speaking, yes>
I now am
not convinced that this is the case.
Considering the SCWD, the
90-degree fitting on the openings of the 3/4 inch returns (and the
spring activated check valve) I've got something like 9 feet of head
according to Reef Central.
<The model there is necessarily a
simplification>
Looking at the spec.s on the 30RLT, with that much
head pressure, I shouldn't even be approaching 600gph, which I believe
is somewhere in the area of the max capacity of the 1' bulkhead.
<Uh... no... there are a few very important (co)factors involved... the
vinyl tubing has some induced drag, the extent of the horizontal run
from the bulkhead...>
I'd considered slipping a gate/ball valve on
the output of the return pump, but really don't think that's the answer.
<It is not>
Perhaps I need a slightly larger hole in the cap of
the standpipe? Or perhaps just adding a few more gallons of water in
the sump for the pump to prime the system?
<No my friend... the root
of the problem here is really the lack of size, number of
through-puts... you won't be able to get enough water through what you
have>
This is my first foray into plumbing an admittedly rather
intricate system, and as such, would be interested in any suggestions
you could provide. Am also curious if there might have been value in
hard plumbing the system,
<Yes... in some cases, some flexible is a
good idea... but in most... rigid is preferable... for how many
reasons?>
as it seems like there might not have been as many issues
utilizing straight lines and angles. I assume that that the other side
of that sword is that with the vinyl tubing, I likely have less head
pressure than a similar set up using elbows.
Thanks in advance,
Sam King
<Sam, do read over the Plumbing materials we have archived
on WWM... there's a bunch. And do have some other folks with similar
systems chat with you re yours... I would have the tank drilled for two
1 1/2" bulkheads (two inch diameter) and use the existing through-puts
for returns. Bob Fenner... who has "been t/here, done this... many, many
times> Overflow Box 7/25/05
I am very new to this and I
just decided to switch from a canister filter to a sump since my tank is
not drilled I purchased an over flow box now I cannot make it work can
you help me?? Bobbie Jo <Bobbie Jo, don't know what you are having
trouble with. I'm guessing you can't get the siphon started. Need to
fill the overflow box with water, put a flexible airline tube into the
siphon at the very top of the curve, then suck the air out of the siphon
tube and remove the air line. Siphon should start working. Also try
and contact the manufacturer for help. James (Salty Dog)>
Overflow Box 7/25/05
Thank you for the help I don't know why they
don't send directions thanks again.
<You're welcome. James (Salty
Dog)>
Bobbie Jo
Overflow murders
Perhaps you can
help me out. I have a 125 Gallon salt water tank and just upgraded to an
Amiracle sump filter but the overflow is sucking my smaller fish along
with shrimp etc. Is there any method to prevent this? I've been to a
couple of per shop in the local Jersey area but they don't offer any
good suggestions. What can I do. Thanks very much.... Peter
<if the
overflow is an internal skimmer box then simply fill it with submerged
bioballs. This will not impede water flow but will prevent air bubbles
and fish from making it through. Kindly, Anthony> U-tube
overflow modification
Hello, I use an overflow box with a u-tube.
Every week it seems that I must re-siphon the u-tube, otherwise air
enters the tube and tends to decrease water movement to the sump and
increase the water inside the overflow box, causing less flow and less
water movement. Is there any fix to prevent this? Thanks, Rob
<the
best solution is to not use an overflow at all... they hold you hostage
in fear of the inevitable overflow from a siphon break... even the best
designed ones can fail. Do have the tank drilled for a gravity overflow
when you can. In the meantime, there are many DIY solutions on the net
to help with this... simply do a keyword search with the pertinent
terms. Also look on the DIY link at www.ozreef.org... I think a saw
plans there for a better mousetrap. Essentially, what you need to do is
drill a small hole at the top of the tube, glue a rigid airline stem in
place and hook it up with the Venturi of a nearby powerhead. This
Venturi will constantly siphon air bubbles that collect (with water) and
prevent the siphon from breaking. Best regards, Anthony>
Rob Cook
My crazy clowns (and overflow boxes)
Mr. Fenner,
I just wanted
to give you an update about my 2 true clowns. I wrote to you about a
week ago asking for advice about my clowns fighting their reflection in
the glass. I am happy to say that they have given up this behavior and
have adopted my Green Frogspawn. :)
<Ah, good>
I have a question
if you have the time to look over the attachment I've sent. I have a
Del-Ray sump that came with an over flow. It is the box kind that is
attached with suction cups and uses a J tube to go down to the sump. I
am having problems with it staying attached (the box inside of the tank
that is.)
<Yes... a poor design>
My LFS does not sell these sumps
anymore and does not know where I could find out the information about
the suction cups used. On a totally different subject I want to purchase
another overflow (so I can have one for each corner) and now I cannot
find the manufacture (looked on the net and could not find it. I am not
a surfer.) Could you please take a look at the picture I have attached
and tell me if you know this sort of overflow. and where I might be able
to find on like it?
<See it... and not made by any extant company as
far as I'm aware. Do look at the CPR units... Link on WetWebMedia.com>
Also I thought that since I am moving and I will have to take my tank
apart, could I use aquarium sealant and glue the box to the wall of the
aquarium?
<Absolutely... this is what I would do if satisfied with
the unit... if not cut, drill the tank otherwise...>
I don't ever
intend to have them removed, so this seemed like a good idea. What do
you think? I haven't found anyone who has done it so I am weary.
Have
a great afternoon and thank you for your time.
((sorry for the first
picture being so blurry))
<No worries... have many more that are much
blurrier. Bob Fenner> Re: My crazy clowns (and overflow boxes)
Hello again Mr. Fenner,
Sorry to give you two emails in one day but I
did want to thank you (yet again) for you help.
About the overflows,
I would like to ask another question. I have heard very bad experiences
with the CPR overflows, losing there siphon and other scary things.
<Mmm, actually, these makes/models are about as trouble-free as
available, and reliable IMO>
I have not had a problem with the one I
am using now. I would keep using it because I thought drilling a glass
aquarium when it has already been assembled is a disaster waiting to
happen.
<Can be... I wouldn't do it yourself... check around with the
glass shops in your area for their opinion)
I have heard it has a
greater chance of cracking while being drilled and that it could loose
structural integrity.
<Crack, yes... a possibility. Loss of
structural integrity? No, not if done correctly.>
The tank I have now
is 1 year old and does have a center brace at it's top. Do you think it
is possible to drill for overflows and not have problems?.
<Yes...
this is a "stock procedure" in aquarium manufacture...>
I will read
over your web site and see if I can find anyone who has done this. I am
just very weary at the idea of drilling glass.
Best wishes
<And
leery. Bob Fenner> Overflow Question
Greetings,
I
have been experimenting with different ways of quieting my overflow
before I complete the setup of my pre-drilled, 72 gallon, bow-front
All-glass fish & live rock aquarium. I purchased a magnum 950 pump
(following your advice -Steve) as my return pump. I tested the flow rate
and this pump is pushing 540 gal/hr in my aquarium which I am very happy
about (I collected the return water in a bucket and measured it out).
After reading many posts regarding insufficient drain rates, I modified
the All-Glass overflow kit to allow a 1.25" ID tube to drain into my
sump. Needless to say my tank sounded like a flushing toilet and washing
machine all in one. I was experiencing a huge siphon noise, a noisy
waterfall effect in my overflow, and a very noise sump with lots of air
bubbles. I also cannot increase the diameter of the drain hole or add
another one because the bottom of the tank is tempered glass. After
reading through hundreds of posts I came across someone who put a gate
valve in the drain line and closed it just enough to exactly match the
return pump's flow rate. I decided to duplicate this today (but with a
ball valve for now) and the results have been terrific. The siphon noise
is gone because the water level is far above the PVC drain pipe (I
stopped using the all-glass float), the waterfall noise is gone because
the overflow water level is only a few inches below the overflow lip,
and the sump is very quiet because very little air is siphoned into the
sump (also few air bubbles). I have read numerous times that you guys
don't recommend any type of valve controlling the gravity overflow.
<Yes>
I don't understand this reasoning though, besides it being very
difficult to exactly match the drain rate to the pump rate. Are there
any other drawbacks by restricting the drain rate to match the pump rate
that I can't think of?
<There is a possibility of clogging the valve
and causing the water level in the tank to rise to the point that you
have a flood.>
This seems to good to be true. I have been agonizing
over my setup for 2 months now and desperately want to get the tank
running. Your advice in the past and this website as a whole has been
indispensable.
<I think you would be safer with a Durso-style
overflow modification. See his webpage here http://www.rl180reef.com/>
Thanks, Jeff
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Overflows & FYI
I have a 100 gallon acrylic tank with two overflows; opposite each
other, on the right and left side of the tank. Since I bought the tank,
one of the overflows has never really worked. I've had the tank for a
year but recently I've been redoing a few things and the "dead" overflow
is bugging me. I've tried all of the usual things. . .bled the return
lines checking for clogs, etc. No success. As a side note, I'll also
mention that the return line is not equal distance from the overflows.
Picture this: the tank and stand are 60" long. The sump stretches across
half of the sixty inches. The pump plus the exit line from the sump
covers most of the remaining thirty inches. Naturally, the overflow on
the right side of the tank is closer to the pump than the left side.
<should be of little matter on a level tank>
However, oddly enough,
it is obvious to me there is more water coming out of the left return
line than the right. But it's the right overflow that works the best!
Are you confused yet?
<yep>
It appears to me that the left hand
return is shooting water through the right overflow. This is not
happening in the reverse.
<er...OK>
I though that overflows worked
on the principle that the water level of the tank was supposed increase
thereby gently spilling water into the overflow.
<again... on a
level tank... the drop should be relatively even if the run is also
similar enough (which it is likely to be from the bottom of each
overflow. You don't have either (especially the slow one) releasing into
the sump below the sump water level? Impedance>
The tank has way too
much surface agitation for the water to gently overflow. Any suggestions
(short of draining the tank, etc.) to solve this problem? Oh, the system
pump is rated at 1500 gph but it's going through a 3/4'' line and
changes to 1/2'' line as the water enters the tank.
<restricted
indeed! Do you need to? why not more flow (larger supply line)?>
This
tank was a Clear View aquarium design. I would never have had lines that
small.
<perhaps re-route the return with a simply flexible line off
the pump and a u-tube over the top of the tank... even if only as an
experiment>
On another note. . . In the past, I have read many
questions from people that own the Turboflotor 1000 skimmer. I have
always been unhappy with mine (almost a year) until this week.
<if
you aren't feeding this skimmer from a skimmer box in the sump with a
static water level, then that has been most of the problem>
Let me
give a little advice: 1) Use a skimmer box to keep the water level
around the skimmer between 10 and 15 centimeters, no more no less;
<ah-ha!>
2) if you've been using the skimmer, check for a clogged
venturi, clogged feeder pump, or problem with the Rio 2600.
<good
advice.... thank you>
I assure you, those two items alone will make a
world of difference in the skimmer's performance, especially the skimmer
box.
<agreed... critical for all skimmers. A skimmer getting water
from a pump/sump with a fluctuating water level is a great impediment!>
Keep up the good work and thanks for your help! David D.
<thanks
kindly, Anthony> Re: Overflows & FYI
<<You don't have
the drains releasing into the sump below the sump water level do you?
Impedance>>
++++I'm not sure I follow. The sump is a homemade
Rubbermaid. The overflow lines empty into the skimmer box about a 1/2''
below the water level. The lines simply rest slightly below the surface
of the water.
<exactly as stated/feared above... in doing so air
gets trapped and backed up. Overflow drains should never be even
slightly under water. Release a whisker just above the water if you must
be close but let the air escape... else it backs up flow>
Are you
suggesting an improvement? I'm game if it might help the problem.
<as
per above>
<<perhaps re-route the return with a simply flexible line
off the pump and a u-tube over the top of the tank... even if only as an
experiment>>
++++Might be worth a try. But if the u-tube were to get
loose. . .
<sheesh... a hard U-tube bud clipped or clamped to the
top... its just an experiment :) Be resourceful, my friend>
I might
also mention that I get a suction noise from the left return from inside
the tank. This is not the flushing toilet sound that one gets from the
overflow. I built a Durso style silencer when I first got the tank and
it's been wonderful. The sound only happens maybe every twenty or thirty
minutes. It looks like a little cyclone is forming right where the water
leaves the flared nozzle and enters the tank. I have helped the problem
immensely by turning the return nozzle clockwise. I just thought this
might help give
you another clue as to what the problem is. Maybe I
should just leave well enough alone and continue using those powerheads.
I appreciate your thoughts and efforts. Thanks again.
<the flushing
toilet noise is often trapped air... the cyclone is usually an
undersized overflow drain or and oversized pump. Undersized commercial
overflows are a dreadfully common problem. Few can ever handle reef
sized pumps. Best regards, Anthony> Sand Box -
Overflow... Sand Box over-no 2/9/05
Hello again.
<"...hello...
just called, to saaaaay, hello.">
I have a question that is specific
to my setup. I've read through as much as I could find on your site
about the topic, but have not been able to reach a conclusion and would
like some input concerning a minor tank modification. My tank has
overflow boxes in the corners. Each box stands the full height of the
tank. Inside each box is the drain that sends water to the sump...The
drains have PVC pipe inserted in them, that stand about 18 inches inside
the boxes, topped by a strainer covered with a sponge pre-filter...
<The norm... yes>
This creates a bunch of open space under my
prefilter that is inside my overflow box, always full of fast moving
water, and unused space.
<Yikes! pull the prefilter completely.
Unless you rinse this almost daily, it is severely handicapping your
skimmate (total) potential and degrading water quality over time>
The
space also collects debris, shrimp, snails, etc..
<The weir edge of
the overflow needs modified with a barrier like simple plastic
gutter-guard (for rain gutters)>
I think the boxes have about 5
gallons of water in them at all
times. The boxes are about 8"x6"...My
question is this: I was thinking of filling the boxes up to the
prefilters with aragonite sand.
<yikes!>
This would prevent stuff
from collecting under my prefilter, inside the box, which is my primary
goal.
<Best not to>
But, I am also hoping as the water from the
tank "waterfalls" into the overflow boxes, the turbulence will help
dissolve the sand, adding calcium and minerals to the water. Do you
think I will see that benefit?
<I don't think you'll see anything my
friend... your tank will be as cloudy as milk from this turbulence>
Would an 18" deep sandbed inside of an 8"x6" space be detrimental to the
tank? Could it create problems? Would I enjoy any of the filtration
benefits of a DSB?
<Yes, yes, and no>
Thanks for your thoughts,
and the great website. Scott
<Thanks kindly, Scott :) Sorry for the
quickie :p Anthony> Re: Overflow prefilters
2/10/05
Geez...I'm glad I asked first, I was way off base.
Thanks. I am wondering about the prefilter comment though. If I remove
the prefilter, where will my mechanical filtration occur?
<Hmmm...
not really needed if the skimmer is aggressive enough, but if not...
then in the final stage before the return pump (presuming there's no pod
refugium inline)>
Do I even need the mechanical aspect of the
filtration?
<Not really. Do you at least get several cups of
skimmate daily from your unit? If not, see the archives here as well as
the sticky post on "skimmer production" at the top of my forum at
reefcentral.com>
Will not having the prefilter send my skimmer into
overdrive?
<I hope so :)>
I'll do some searches for info about
pre-filters on your site too. Thanks again, Scott
<Best
regards, Anthony>
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