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FAQs about
Overflows, Bulkheads/Through-puts, Holes vs. Boxes... Troubleshooting &
Repair Related Articles:
Overflow Box Arrangements, Plumbing Marine Systems,
Plumbing
Return Manifolds, Refugiums,
Related FAQs: Overflows 1, Overflows 2,
Overflows 3,
Overflows 4,
& FAQs on: Pump/Plumbing Noise 1, Pump/Plumbing
Noise 2,
& FAQs on: Rationale/Use,
Sizing, Through-Hull Fittings,
Hang-On Selection,
Plumbing...
Marine Plumbing 1, Marine
Plumbing 2, Marine Plumbing 3, Marine
Plumbing 4, Marine Plumbing 5, Marine
Plumbing 6, Plumbing 7, Plumbing
8, Plumbing 9, Plumbing
10, Plumbing 11, Plumbing
12, Plumbing 13, Plumbing
14,
Plumbing 15,
Plumbing 16,
Plumbing 17, Plumbing 18,
Holes & Drilling,
Durso Standpipes,
Make Up
Water Systems, Pumps, Plumbing,
Circulation, Sumps,
Refugiums, Marine
Circulation 2, Gear
Selection for Circulation, Pump
Problems, Fish-Only
Marine Set-ups, Fish-Only
Marine Systems 2, FOWLR/Fish and
Invertebrate Systems, Reef Systems, Coldwater
Systems, Small Systems, Large
Systems, Water Changes, Surge
Devices,
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Define: "reef ready"
Palauastrea ramosa
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Overflow... Not reef ready
4/29/08
I have a reef ready 90 with the built in overflow in the back. (older style?) I
have a mag 9.5 return pump. The return goes from the sump to the bottom of the
standpipe, maybe 24" then up into the overflow box another 24".
<OK>
The problem is I am getting a lot of noise from the overflow, I hear most of it
from the top of the tank. The tank is equipped with the stock standpipes. After
Googling I found that the overflow is rated for 600gph,
<And in reality only flow 300 without issues.>
and the mag 9 is 800gph @ 48" head, so why would I still be getting the air
noise? Is there an adjustment I can make to make it more quiet?
<The fact of the matter is the 1” drain provided in these overflows cannot
handle nearly what the Mag 9.5 can pump back up to the tank. At the very least
this will be evident with the noise you are experiencing, at the worst you will
end up with water on the floor. By forcing the drain to handle more than it can
you will be forcing it to siphon somewhat, creating the gurgling and flushing
noises you are hearing. You will need to put a ball valve on the output of the
Mag and restrict the flow until the noise subsides.>
Thanks in advance
<Welcome, good luck, Scott V.>
Algae in Overflow Box 3/15/08
Greetings Crew.
<Hello Andy.>
I have a question regarding solutions to algal growth in my overflow box. My
tank is not pre-drilled, so I have the old style hang-on-the-back overflow box.
In December, I converted from a T5 HO lighting fixture to a larger metal halide
fixture.
<OK>
Since I made this change, I've noticed that the first internal cavity of my
overflow box tends to develop a large, thick mat of green hair algae that
restricts water flow into my sump.
<This happens, it is a pain!>
A portion of the actinic PC bulbs in my new fixture hangs over my overflow box,
whereas my old fixture was narrower and no part of it sat over the overflow box.
I purchased a small flexible, spring-like filter cleaning brush and, after MUCH
manipulation, was able to get it up and into the cavity. I was able to remove
much of the algae, but this was a very difficult task because of resistance
created by the algae and structure of the cavity and the flexibility of the
brush. At first, I had luck only in scrubbing the sides of the cavity, as the
brush would orient only outwards within the cavity. So, I decided to feed the
brush handle through a short piece of PVC pipe once I got the brush inside the
cavity, and this allowed for a little more stability of the brush and let me
access more of the internal cavity. However, even using this method I was not
able to completely clean the cavity. This was a lot of work--took me a good 2
hours of manipulation, moving my fixture off the tank, etc. Does anyone know of
a better way, or a better tool, other than taking the overflow box off and
soaking it in bleach for a few hours?
<Manually loosening a rinsing out is generally the best way, still a pain as you
describe.>
I was thinking of covering my overflow box in aluminum foil to keep light out of
the box, but I worry about the unintentional addition of aluminum/corrosion
byproducts into my display caused by runoff if any water splashes, etc. on the
foil.
Thanks for any insight.
Andy
<In your situation I would take the overflow box off, lightly sand the outside
and paint it. This will keep the light out of it, preventing such a
proliferation of the algae inside. Krylon Fusion spray paint will work well for
this, it dries fast and adheres well to plastics. Welcome, I hope this helps you
out, Scott V.>
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Please Help! At My Wits End
Trying to Solve This Problem... (Another Overwhelmed “Mega” Overflow?) –
03/03/08
I have a 150 gallon glass aquarium with Megaflow Overflow system, Euro-Reef
skimmer with Sedra pump, and 2 Mag-Drive pumps (950 gph).
<<…! Is this for each!? I’m guessing this “Megaflow” system (can you hear the
sarcasm in my voice [grin]), consists of a single 1” drain, yes? Realistically,
this would limit you to about 300gph en toto for the return pump(s)…after
headloss>>
The system is 5 years old. The pumps are all originals but well cleaned and
cared for. I can honestly say the system has been virtually silent since I
purchased a Euro-Reef Isopad soon after system was set up 5 years ago.
<<Ah, yes…isolating pump vibration can make a remarkable difference>>
About a week ago a major change occurred. I came home to very loud rushing water
noise (like toilet flushing constantly).
<<Mmm, a siphon surge…generally means you are pushing more water to the tank
than the overflows/drains can safely handle>>
The pumps and skimmer appeared to be working well with no apparent air leaks.
The drain pipe/return pipe appears tight in bulkhead and in correct position. No
matter what I do to try to quiet the system nothing works. When I turned the
system off I heard an extreme high whining noise (like something was stuck in
line).
<<Hmmm…or maybe sucking/pushing are through a very small leak (pinhole)>>
I continued to turn the system on and off until I could no longer hear the
whine.
<<…?>>
The system is not hard plumbed and usually I can "burp" the air out easily by
moving the flexible down lines a couple of times.
<<Mmm, better to aspirate these if this is a continual problem. This involves
inserting a length of small-diameter tubing down the overflow pipe to allow air
to escape when the system is “running.” Determining the best length/diameter for
the tubing usually requires a bit of trial-and-error>>
This has no effect on the noise now.
<<Agreed…not a panacea>>
The noise (rushing water and air) seems to originate along the lines draining
into sump or up in the aquarium, not in the sump.
<<Indeed…a result of too much flow>>
Adjusting the water level using the air intake elbow has not been successful.
The drain pipe and return pipes seem to be firmly in place in the bulkheads. I
know of nothing that could have been sucked into the system. I did have a
problem with overgrowth of sponges over my live rock etc when I was feeding my
puffer mussels daily. The sponges were evident and growing out of the overflow.
I fear that somehow they are constricting my lines internally? Is this possible,
how do I eradicate?
<<This is possible…and would explain the change in the systems’
performance…Replacing the drain pipe/tubing is an option, but I think you have
other issues here as well. This problem is almost certainly an issue with “too
much water volume” being pushed down the drain line. Frankly, with the return
pumps you list, I’m amazed you haven’t had a serious flood before now. Those
Mag-Drive pumps must be working against some serious head pressures. Even so, it
sounds like your drain has been operating in a dangerous “siphon” mode where the
slightest obstruction; in this case possible buildup of organic matter, can
cause serious problems. I think you were lucky this time in that the drain was
able to “surge” and keep up with the flow, albeit in a very noisy/annoying
manner, and didn’t just back water up all over your floor>>
I am at a loss as to what do next.
<<If you don’t have gate-valves plumbed on the return side of the pumps
(recommended), try turning off one of the return pumps to reduce the return flow
and see what happens. As stated, with the 1” drain line you should shoot for a
flow-/drain-rate of no more than 300gph. And obviously, come up with alternative
methods for producing necessary “water movement” within the display>>
Thank you for your assistance.
Leslie
<<Give the flow reduction a try, Leslie…and write back to discuss further if you
wish. Regards, Eric Russell>>
Follow Up Note On My
Email To You on 3/3/08 (Sys. Plumbing/Bristleworms/Puffer) – 03-15-08
I wanted to thank Eric Russell for his assistance on 3/3/08.
<<Eric here…you are quite welcome, Leslie>>
I was so frustrated that I was ready to give my fish away (or worse) and
close down the system!
<<I do recall>>
He gave me the support and guidance to get through a really miserable
few days until my aquarium was fully functioning again and my 4 charges
were alive and well. (This includes my original 5+ year old dogface
puffer, 5 year old Foxface, 4 year old Picasso trigger and 3.5 year old
hippo tang.)
<<Is rewarding to know>>
Thank you, thank you Eric, as I thought my puffer was a goner , not
eating for 4 days.
<<Most welcome again, my friend>>
You guys and gals probably do know what a wonderful service you provide
and you are so appreciated in 911 situations.
<<It truly is our wish for you/the hobby to succeed…thank you for the
kind words>>
I had written because my 150 gallon all glass aquarium with MegaFlows
had started gurgling and siphoning. The system is 5+ years old and
usually quiet. The noise was a very sudden change and no matter what I
tried nothing worked. With Eric's advice I tried to aspirate the air.
Did not work, if anything noise, gurgling just became worse.
<<It can take quite a bit of fiddling to find the right combination of
tubing diameter and insertion length…but still…is no panacea>>
Eric confirmed my fear that it was possible that my drains ( 2 drains,
each 1"diameter ) could be plugged from organic matter. (Ii fed my
puffer daily mussels to keep his beak in check).
<<Indeed…many cryptic organisms find this environment agreeable to
them>>
Eric suggested I might need new lines.
<<Is often the simplest approach to this issue>>
I also suspected my Euro-Reef skimmer might be at fault for the extra
air being pulled into the system. It still produced good skimmate
amounts but was getting more and more difficult to start pump. At times
required pump to be disconnected from skimmer and tilted around before
it would start.
<<Ah, yes…I very recently had to replace all three Sedra pumps on my own
ER skimmer (made the switch/upgrade to the ER-modded Eheim pumps)>>
Anyway, due to undergoing treatment for a medical condition, I am quite
weak right now, and had to hire my local LFS to come to my home. They
determined there was nothing wrong with skimmer function (wrong) and
thought the flow was just fine, did not agree noise was anything but
normal.
<<Disappointing to know>>
I insisted they break system down and evaluate.
<<Excellent>>
This took them over 2 hours (at $85.00 an hour,
<<Yikes! Maybe I am in the wrong biz… [grin}>>
I know MD's that are less expensive, but who's going to argue at this
point.
<<Actually, from what I’ve read I think that fee is about “median’ and
not unreasonable. Regardless…you should still expect them to know what
they are doing/provide quality service>>
The Mag 9.5 pumps were fine, but the drain lines were at least 50%
clogged with fibrous tissues (sponges?)
<<Quite likely>>
but worse, thousands of bristle worms.
<<Not the monsters many folks think them to be. Can be/are quite
beneficial detritivores…although extremely high population densities can
be an indicator of excess organic material (overfeeding)>>
Unfortunately, when the drain lines were reinstalled and the system
started up hundreds of baby and not so baby bristle worms were blown
into my aquarium. This was so upsetting as I keep a meticulous aquarium
(at least the parts I can see).
<<Relax my friend, no reason to be upset at this point. Back off a bit
on the feedings and the worm population should adjust accordingly>>
I do every other day 8-gallon water changes and visually the aquarium
looks pristine.
<<Ah, but as you are learning…much going on/present that isn’t always
“visible” to the naked eye>>
My puffer requires this and I think this is why he has lived so long.
But I am side tracking, sorry...
<<No worries…all pertinent/worth sharing>>
Anyway, when the LFS left my home I was left with a sump full of bristle
worms. Most were about an eighth of an inch long but there were many big
ones, 1-2 inches in size.
<<Mmm…have seen much bigger, and are of little concern as stated. Think
about it, these worms have been in your system for years…you didn’t have
any problems re, or even think about them when you didn’t “see” them>>
Also 2 big piles of worms (I mean about 2 inches high) were deposited in
the aquarium. My trigger was going crazy but even he wasn't hungry
enough to clear them. As it was about 8 pm and dark by now I quickly did
a 20 gallon water change and collapsed into bed. Next Am I moved live
rock from 1/4th of aquarium and of course there were piles of the worms
under it. I still need to continue my quest and break down the other
3/4ths of aquarium and vacuum up what I can).
<<You can do this if you wish…but is not necessary in my opinion>>
Any thoughts on how to rid the strangers?
<<You really don’t want to be “rid” of them….they serve a very useful
purpose. But as implied earlier, reducing excess foodstuffs in the tank
will limit the population>>
I don't want them growing inches long.
<<Too late [grin]…but no reason to panic>>
I will not overfeed aquarium but at this point I want them out!
<<These organisms are a necessary and useful component of a “balanced”
system>>
I agitated the sump water in the skimmer and it picked up several
hundred more from there. Then I got really discouraged and just
completely emptied the entire sump and cleaned it all out of any water
and worms. The doorbell rang with my new Sedra 5000 pump for skimmer, it
was perfect timing.
<<Indeed…a well functioning skimmer will also help with the excess
organic load, obviously>>
Even the fiber block that is in sump after the floss/ carbon/ was filled
with baby bristle worms. The foam on the Euro-Reef skimmer full too. Now
skimmer with new pump is up and going, lines are clean, about 100
gallons of water have been changed in the last 3 days. Gurgling has
stopped, no siphoning anymore either.
<<Yay!>>
Now I have one question. How do I prevent this from occurring again in
3-4 years?
<<Hmm…it’s not likely it can be “prevented”…but reducing dissolved
organics in the water that feed the sponges will slow down their
growth/expansion. Also…reducing flow rates a bit (i.e. – not
maximizing/overwhelming the drain’s capacity) will allow a bit of
“wiggle room” for such growths>>
I don't want to feed my puffer any more mussels after seeing this
residue,
<<Oh…don’t stop altogether…just be more judicious re>>
also I think the sponges really picked up growth when I started putting
Selcon on food about 9 months ago.
<<Mmm, yes…while quite beneficial, it has been my experience that use of
this and other such food boosters requires careful use as they can be
abused. I do recommend you keep using the Selcon…but keep its use to no
more than once or twice a week as a food soak>>
What do I do to keep his beak from growing so fast?
<<As stated…don’t “completely stop” feeding shellfish to the puffer, but
rather cut back a bit maybe (as well as other foods/potential
over-feedings)…and do also add some chemical filtration
(carbon/Poly-Filter) to your system>>
He only occasionally takes bites out of the coralline live rock. I was
trying to think of a way I could attach his favorite big hard algae
wafer to a mussel shell. That way he would still bite hard against the
shell and keep beak in check.
<<Keep feeding what the fishes need/require…and “step-up” the
filtration/husbandry to cope re>>
The LFS said that puffers don't live long when they are at the size of
mine but I just don't believe that.
<<…?! And they based that statement on…? Seems a ridiculous thing to
say, to me>>
He has done wonderfully and never has had a disease.
<<Testament to your good care and a proper diet, no doubt>>
What is the oldest age you know for a captive dogface?
<<Have heard this can be more than a decade>>
Well, that is the end of my tale. I write to say thank you but also so
others can learn from my bad experience and hopefully save some agony.
<<Many thanks for sharing>>
Thank you Eric and all of the team.
<<We are all pleased to assist>>
Oh, I did also have valves added as recommended by Eric.
<<Excellent move!>>
Sincerely,
Leslie
<<Be chatting… Eric Russell>> |
|
More Overflow Woes 2/23/08
Hello again!
<Hello Jaime.>
Here is a breakdown of my system and my problems...oh boy here goes. I have a
125 gallon reef tank which was recently (3wks) upgraded from a 75 gallon. I have
a CPR continuous siphon overflow (with 2 one inch bulkheads) an oceanic type 2
sump and a Mag flow 8 (1500 gallons per hour).
<Mag 18?>
There is PVC cemented into the overflow going down into the unit below and PVC
Teflon taped together for the return. 3 times so far the 125 has overflowed from
the top...the water level rises and "boom!!" mess! Thank god I have been there
every time.
<Not good.>
The tank is almost level, maybe a hair off to the front.
<Get yourself a level and check this, fix the problem if it is not level.>
The overflow has been getting some air trapped in the neck no matter how much I
suck it out...due to the tiniest variation in levelness?
<And likely running to/past capacity. A realistic, real world and safe
expectation out of this overflow will be just north of 600 GPH. The addition of
a Tom Aqualifter pump to the overflow to constantly remove any trapped air will
help out immensely.>
When I suck that air out sometimes the water level drops a little. (going back
to normal) I even have a ball valve to slow the amount of water going back into
the tank (and with that more than half closed I am putting strain on the unit)
but it still overflows.
<Yes, a pump that large, even throttled back so far, will strain this overflow.
You are simply limited by the two 1” bulkheads here.>
Someone with a brain has got to help me here!! The jerks I bought everything
from want to put a "t" valve on the return part to let extra water flow back
into the sump (but I do not want all that extra un-needed noise!)
<Nor energy consumption, moving water that does nothing.>
I wanted to just return the pump for something that is not so strong. They said
no way, you already used it. Funny part is one of their employees set the whole
unit up for me.
<Yikes!>
I can send some pictures if that would help but where do you think my problem is
lying?
<This is purely a pump vs. overflow capacity issue.>
I have already been without adequate filtration for about 5 days and going. I
have invested hundreds and hundreds of dollars here. I am sure you can
understand my frustration. I haven't even been able to really enjoy the tank
yet. My birthday is Monday so the soonest I can get back up to the store is
Tuesday so now we are adding a few more days with crappy filtration. I would
like to go up there really knowing where my problem is so I can fight my case.
Thank you sooo much!
Jamie
<I urge you to consider the option of drilling this tank for a true gravity fed
overflow. Two 1 ½” drains will do the trick here. I have included a link of
yours truly drilling to give you an idea of what is involved. If you are not
comfortable doing so, you should consider adding a second CPR unit like the one
you have already. This will give you more flow capacity and allow you a certain
amount of redundancy if one fails (keep in mind your flow is out flowing one
unit). The addition of an Aqualifter or RVT powerhead is highly recommended to
use with these types of overflows. You will still need to keep the pump
throttled back, but not as much. Good luck, Scott V.>
http://www.momsfishsupply.com/drilling_video.html
Re: More Overflow
Woes 2/24/08
The guys at the fish store told me that this over flow turns that
fish tank water over 10 times and hour and moves something like 1200 -
1500 gallons per hour.
<It does not, as you are experiencing.>
You are saying 600. Why such a huge difference between what you are
saying and what they are saying?
<Many factors, most notably the “urban myth” of what a 1” bulkhead can
flow. The fact of the matter is the bulkheads in this unit limit your
flow.>
Why would they sell me such an over powerful filter...didn't they
realize it would cause me problems?
<Apparently they didn’t know…or did not care.>
I really have kinda amazed out what I can afford to put into this tank.
We just bought a new house which is becoming more of a strain on cash.
Would simply going to a less powerful Mag pump be the key to my solution
here?
<It will solve the overflowing problem, though you will lose that
potential for flow.>
If so what should I look for.
<Something that pumps around 600 gph or less at your head height. Maybe
a Mag 7 or possibly 9 throttled back a little.>
I have a protein skimmer that does 250 gallons per hour inside the sump
and a Magnum hang on the back canister (which I love because the current
it puts out is soooo nice and it is easily cleaned every 2 weeks). Plus
I have some internal pumps to move water and help with circulation.
<Good.>
My fish population is very low and will not increase. (Lunar wrasse 8
inches, Rock beauty 5
inches, twin spot hog fish 4 inches, and a true percula clown plus a
host of corals).
<I would consider this on the more heavily stocked side for a 75 gal.>
Also how do I go about leveling this tank? It has over 150 pound s of
live rock, 150 pounds of live sand and is filled with water! (AHHH) What
does that unlevelness mean for the working state of the filtration?
<It is more an issue of safety. If the tank is too far out of level it
can put undue stress on the glass in ways the tank is not designed to
handle. A tank can take this to a point, it is better to just ensure it
is level. See the link at the bottom for info on how and why to do
this.>
Thank you very much for all of your help.
<You are welcome.>
PS I really do not think I could put another CPR on the back of the
tank...with all the pipe work and the protein skimmer being inside the
sump I just do not think that I have room. It is hard enough to maneuver
the protein skimmer it barely fits inside the tank stand. Thank you
again for your help.
<Understood…the pain of finding space in a reef tank! You will simply
need to reduce your flow if you cannot add more draining capacity. Good
luck, Scott V.>
http://wetwebmedia.com/aqstdleveling.htm |
AWFUL bulkhead gurgling.
Overflow Gurgling 2/11/08
Greetings gang!
<Wuf.>
I am having an awful issue with gurgling. After a fun-filled weekend of trying
to get my 65 gallon tank drilled (read sarcasm in this), I FINALLY got it done.
<It is what counts!>
I have 2-1" bulkheads installed, with a Mag 7 in sump. The return line is "T'ed"
off into 2 loc-line outputs. The new setup looks a TON better than the previous
clunky clear overflow box I was using, BUT I am having one last issue with it
(go figure).
<Growing pains.>
My drain lines gurgle. And gurgle. And gurgle. No stopping it. And it's driving
me NUTS. To be honest, I can't even leave it running for the fear of angering my
neighbor. Yes, it's THAT loud.
<Is it gurgling or flushing?>
I know the air getting sucked into the vortex going into the tube is causing it,
but I cannot get it to stop to save my life. I've shoved a piece of airline
tubing in it to try and 'break up' the vortex, but obviously it didn't work
(otherwise, I wouldn't be writing this!).
Any suggestions would be great. I would like to be able to sleep without having
to use ear muffs. :-(
-wuf
<Two things can cause gurgling/flushing noises. First is if the intake of the
drain is exposed to the atmosphere. This will cause the noise of the water
traveling through the line itself to be heard. This is why you see the PVC
elbows pointing down on most overflows. The other is a siphon or partial siphon
in the drain line. This will cause all sorts of noises, some sporadically. You
will need to drill the PVC drain intake at the point that it starts going down
to your sump for the airline tubing (I would actually get a bit larger tubing
for this). Be sure to drill it to fit fairly snug. From this point you will want
to slide the tubing up and down until you find a point at which it will
eliminate this siphon effect. Good Luck, Scott V.>
Bulkhead leak 2/2/08
2/3/08
My 4 year old tank has a small drip coming from one of the bulkheads.
<Uh-oh.>
All-Glass tank with built-in overflows, using their own brand of overflow parts
(stock stuff, nothing customized). How do I fix this?
<If it has gone four years and all of a sudden started leaking you likely need a
new bulkhead (could be cracked) or at least gasket.>
Do I need to drain the entire 125 gallons to repair?
<No, you should be able to drain it below the top of the overflow box, drain the
overflow and then replace the bulkhead/gasket. Good luck, Scott V.>
Overflow Issues…Sluggish Drain Lines –
09/30/07
I just recently moved and set up my 125 Gal. tank with a 29 Gal. refugium.
<<Neat>>
About a week after having it all run smoothly, the tank has started overflowing.
<<Uh-oh>>
I have two Durso Standpipes on opposite corners of the tank using 1" piping. The
two overflows were joined at a T-fitting, which led to a ball valve, then a 45
degree coupling at the end, which is about 3-4 inches below the top of the water
line of the overflow section of the refugium/sump.
<<Mmm, I see…having the two drain outlets conjoin at the “ T “ reduces the
overall drain capacity of the pair as you have reduced all to a “single”
one-inch drain from that point on>>
I have a Pentair Quiet One 3000 (780 GPH) running the return line on 3/4"
piping. After it started overflowing the tank yesterday, I re-plumbed the
overflow to allow both lines to run independently into the sump at about the
same depth in the sump.
<<Ah, good>>
This didn't seem to have much effect.
<<Hmm…something else must be amiss. After subsequent head-loss, I would expect
the flow rate of your stated pump to be fine for the two 1” drains (figure a
maximum of 300gph per drain)>>
So, I tried to silicone the vent holes on the top of the end caps, which kept
the overflow from draining at all.
<<Yes, an escape route for the entrained air is a necessity. You might even try
some experimentation with inserting differing lengths of rigid tubing in to
these vent holes to see if you can find where the air is trapped/building and
thus most efficiently expelled/released, allowing more water down the drain>>
So, I gradually enlarged the vent holes. I noticed that one end (the end that is
closest to the overflow section of the sump and flows nearly straight downward
into it.) has a smaller vent hole, and drains at a much slower rate than the
other end.
<<Hmm, sounds like maybe the designer of the system was trying to “balance” the
flow rates between the two drains…which would only be possible by limiting the
flow in one, thus reducing the overall rate even further (less than the 600gph
max stated earlier)>>
Could I have a snail impeding the flow that severely on that one end?
<<Is a possibility, yes>>
And if so, how do I convince it to get out?
<<It will likely require disassembly of the standpipe or “poking” it out with
some type of flexible instrument (semi-rigid plastic tubing)>>
Or is it more likely that my plumbing skills really suck?
<<Hard to say without more information on your plumbing configuration. But try
removing the standpipes and see how the tank drains…if you’re lucky, any
re-engineering may just be limited to these>>
Any suggestions you have are greatly appreciated.
<<It may well be that your plumbing design/configuration limits the drain
capacity of these outlets more than realized. Once you determine there are no
blockages (snails) in the lines, install a gate-valve on the output side of the
pump and adjust the to where the drains can handle the flow and see if this is
suitable…a flow of only a few hundred gallons per hour through the refugium
should still be fine>>
Thank you,
Jules (Portland, Oregon)
<<Happy to share. EricR (Columbia, SC)>> <Bigger drain
lines... RMF>
Corner Overflow Modification 9/12/07
I have a 90 gal and in the process of starting it over since I had a problem
with algae.
The corner overflow acts like a tomb for crabs when they crawl up the overflow
and fall down and in between. They die or something, trapped with no escape....
<Mmm, how can they crawl up the overflow, are they from the Batman family?:)>
I want to cut these baffle slits out with a Dremel and if I ever do add fish I
can stuff rolled up fine mesh to prevent the fish from up drafting.
The sump is equipped with a bag filter so any critters are easily removed on bag
replacement and placed back. Would it hurt to cut these slits out? Flow may even
improve.
<Shouldn't hurt any. I cut a few of mine out to improve flow. James (Salty Dog)>
The aquarium is well out of its warranty so that's moot.
Rescue fish
trapped in corner overflow 8/21/07
Hello. I have three small fish (blue Chromis, percula clown, and small blue
hippo tang) trapped in the right?
<???>
overflow? of my 180g dual overflow tank. The intake and return pipes in the
overflow ?make it very difficult to net them. I would like to rescue them and?
keep them alive. They swim to the top every once in a while, but I've failed in
my attempts to get them. Any suggestions? Can I flood the overflow to force the
water over the top?
Thank you,
Sol W.
<Turn off, drain the part of the system and net back into the main tank? Screen?
the intake? Bob Fenner?>
Re: rescue fish trapped in corner overflow –
08/21/07
Thank you for your quick response. My other question is that when I drain
part of the system, and refill the main tank, should my return pump be off or
on, since i am trying to force water over the top of the overflow back into the
tank, and hopefully the three fish along with it??
<Mmm, my friend... you need to turn all off, drain this line, and remove these
fishes... possibly with just your wet hand. RMF>
Mis-Balanced Overflows/Closed-Loop – 07/02/07
Hello!
<<Howdy>>
I have a RIO 2100 that was in my Miracle wet-dry that I replaced with a Mag 7.
<<Okay>>
I went to put the RIO back in the wet dry/sump, (no bio balls) and the water
overflowed in my tank.
<<This was in a addition to the Mag-Drive pump?…overwhelmed the overflow drain>>
Ok I shut it off went out bought an intake hose and box cause I figured there
wasn't enough water to the sump.
<<Siphon overflows, eh? Always a good idea to have more than one>>
So I set up the extra intake for the sump and now the sump over flows.
<<Something doesn’t make sense here. It doesn’t matter how many overflow drains
you have on the tank, the total volume “drained” to the sump won’t exceed the
volume of water being pushed to the tank by the return pumps. With the pumps
off, the sump should hold the transient water volume without overflowing (if
not, the working water height in the sump is too high, the overflow boxes in the
tank are positioned too low, or likely a combination of the two). This is the
“static” water level within the sump. When you turn the pumps on, the water
level in the sump should fall until enough water is pumped to the tank overflows
to drain back down to the sump at the same rate it is being pumped. At this
point the water level in the sump is at its “working” height. If this is too low
(i.e. – the pumps are sucking air/causing bubbles), merely adding more water to
the sump will cause the sump to overflow when the pumps are off. You will need
to experiment with the height of the skimmer boxes in the display tank to allow
you to add more water to the sump to keep the pumps adequately submerged, but
not overflow same when the pumps are off. You don’t mention the dimensions of
your sump, but another possibility here is that this vessel is merely too
“shallow” for its intended purpose>>
All I want is to get rid of the dumb power head in the tank and use my RIO 2100
to pump from a closed-loop to circulate.
<<Mmm, do you understand what a closed-loop really is? Please read here and
among the links in blue: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbretfaq3.htm>>
Please help.
<<Am trying…>>
It's a 54 corner so I have limited room underneath but I even tried to use a
bucket for the loop with pump to no avail.
<<Understood, but what you are trying to achieve (closed-loop) will likely not
be possible utilizing a siphon overflow>>
Thanks
<<Welcome. EricR>>
Need help with a tank stand--can't tighten
bottom bulkheads due to wood center brace 6/20/07
Hi there,
I'm hoping you can help me. I have a Perfecto 150-gallon glass aquarium whose
dimensions are: 48" long, 24" wide and 30" tall. The tank has plastic center
braces on the top and bottom. The stand for the tank is wood and supports it
fully around all edges; the top is fully open but with a wood center brace
running vertically through the center.
Recently I had the tank sent out to an aquarium company to have the glass bottom
drilled for two bulkheads along with an internal overflow box installed. I just
got the tank back today, and they did a beautiful job. However, when the tank
was set back on its stand, the wood center brace on the stand was too wide to
allow me to fully tighten the bulkheads underneath.
<Doh!>
I asked the company who did the work what I could do to rectify this--they said
I could notch a cutout in either side of the wood center brace to accommodate
the bulkhead fittings.
<Mmmm>
However, I'm worried that this will compromise the integrity of the stand--
<Yes>
I don't want it collapsing and spilling 150 gallons of water on the floor. Could
you guys help me out as to what I should do--should I consult with an engineer
first or is it okay to do this modification?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
<Well... likely a "thinner" nut can be found... or the through-hull/bulkhead
fitting reversed (with the throat up, perhaps shaved, cut down...) and an extra
gasket found for both sides... and a smear of Silastic on both sides... that
will do here... Perhaps with some shaving of the wood twixt the tank and stand
to accommodate... If push comes to proverbial shove, you might need to consider
adhering the (likely PVC) fitting directly onto the tanks glass... and
dedicating yourself to never jarring it... Otherwise, the worst... giving up on
the present holes, sealing over them (with glass panel/s and Silastic) and
having the tank re-drilled. I agree with your NOT cutting through the
manufactured stand support... UNLESS you feel comfortable (YOU!) with replacing
this support (and losing the manufacturer's warrantee) with two new ones, placed
on either side... Which is really what I'd do... Cheers, BobF>
Re: Need help with a tank stand--can't
tighten bottom bulkheads due to wood center brace 6/21/07
Wow! Thanks so much, Bob, for your kind reply!! I really loved your book, by
the way; it really helped me get started with my tank! Plus I've learned so much
by reading through all the articles and FAQ's from WetWeb Media; you guys are
great! I think I've come up with a plan for my stand. I'd really rather not mess
around with the bulkheads; I only really need to notch the wood 1/4" on either
side, but leave the center brace in place, and I think I'll place two new boards
on either side, like you advised. I really don't want to have the tank
re-drilled: it took the company forever to get the work done; I'd consider
getting a new stand before doing that. Anyway, thank you so much, Bob, you've
really helped me out!
<Ah, good! Cheers, BobF> Hang-On Overflow Noise (Water Volume vs. Pipe Diameter) – 05/14/07
I just upgraded my 29 gal reef to a CPR100 overflow and draining into a 10
gal sump. I decided to hard pipe the overflow in with 3/4pvc and two
elbows. No matter how I position the straight down tube into the sump sock I
get the constant sucking and releasing sound in the box.
<<You are likely trying to push too much water through the overflow. The 1”
bulkhead that comes with the overflow will only handle about 300gph (yeah, I
know they are rated for more flow...just not practical), by reducing the output
diameter to ¾” as you have done with the PVC pipe you have reduced the flow
capacity even more to about 150gph or so...which is more than enough, by the
way, for this tank/sump combination in my opinion>>
Will the Durso pipe solve this problem of noise?
<<I have seen what looks like a modified/compact version of the “Stockman”
standpipe for hang-on overflow boxes (see here: http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-overflow/74.asp),
but whether or not it will help is probably a matter of trial and error. It may
help smooth flow a bit but if you are getting a surge effect as you describe you
will probably have to back off on the pump output from the sump (easily
accomplished with a gate-valve plumbed in-line after the pump)>>
Even if I put the sump pipe under water it still makes and ton of noise and I am
really trying to understand this problem. I want the tank to run with the least
amount of noise as possible and the splashing in the sump will be easy to fix if
I can get the overflow to stop sucking and making gurgling noises. Any other
suggestions?
Thanks.
Will
<<Definitely sounds like a case of too much water volume coupled with a too
small throughput diameter to me. Regards, EricR>>
Over flow box: air bubbles break siphon 4/5/07
<Hi Brian, Mich with you today.>
Please help!
<Will try!>
I can't find any specific solution to the tiny bubbles which break my siphon.
<I think I may know what the problem is, but I have a couple of questions
first. Are you using a U tubes or do you have a continuous siphon overflow
box? Do you know where the air bubbles are coming from? Do you know why you
are getting air bubbles? The attachment is not coming through. Could you
resend the photo? It may be helpful in trouble shooting your problems.>
I've looked at the provided links for hours and have also done many of my own
searches, and still nothing. Thanks for your time,
<Welcome! -Mich>
Over flow box: air bubbles break syphon 4/2/07
Hey guys thanks for getting back so quickly with the questions! I have an
overflow box hooked up to my 45 gallon aquarium. It feeds to my 10 gallon
refugium, and a mag-drive 5 pumps the water back to my aquarium. To start off,
yes, I know I should have had my tank drilled. My problem is that air bubles
get sucked into the overflow box and gather at the top which eventually breaks
the syphon (see picture attached).
<Didn't come through>
I am required to keep sucking the air bubbles out using the air line tube
attached to the top of the overflow box. I have to do this every other day in
order to keep it syphoning.
<Dangerous... or at least annoying>
The problem is that I work out of town on the weekends, and the syphon breaks
every single time I leave. I was wondering what I can do. It would be cool if
there was something that could let the gathered air bubbles out of the air line
tube while not letting air get back in which would break the syphon. I have
tried inserting mesh into the overflow box's entrance (where the water comes
into it form the tank). When I do this I loose a lot of water flow speed and
although the bubbles stop, this is not the solution I am looking for. I am
also concerned with the lack of growth of the spaghetti Caulerpa in my
refugium. I have 36 watt 50/50 compact fluorescent in my refugium which is on
the opposite 12 hours as my main tank. I am ready to throw my refugium out my
apartment window! Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks you guys/girls
are the best every time, Brian-
<Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/bubtroubfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: over flow box: air bubbles break siphon - 04/05/07
Sorry I don't know how to resize the attachment.
<Still not getting the photo. It is very strange. The email is showing there
is an attachment but there is no way to open the attachment.>
To answer your questions so you can answer mine.
<A question for a question if you will...>
I am using a continuous overflow box.
<I have used this also and I too experienced this problem>
The bubbles are created when the water first enters the overflow box from the
aquarium only when the water level of the water reservoir of the overflow box is
lower than the level 1 which I marked on my attachment. While the water level
of the reservoir box is kept higher than the level 1 mark, the bubbles are not
created. The problem is keeping the water level of the reservoir of the
overflow box higher than the level 1 mark using my ball valve and without
overflowing my aquarium. I can usually get the water level of the reservoir to
stay at the level 1 mark for about a day, and then it slowly decreases. I'm not
sure why it doesn't seem that many people have the same problem as me because
when I l search for "bubbles and overflow box" the problems others have are
different. Maybe I am doing something wrong. Well obviously not right!
<I think so. I'm not totally clear on how you have things set up, but I think I
understand enough to offer some suggestions. A couple of options. You can get
an "Air Lifter" pump and attach it via airline tubing to the knob. This will
continuously remove any air which gets stuck in the top of the overflow. The
pump sits on the top of the overflow and does not get submerged. Or you can use
a power head which has a venturi feature. Again connect it to the knob via
airline tubing but the powerhead will need to be submerged in you tank. Either
of these will continuously remove any air build up and you should allow you to
complete open you ball valve. Does this make sense? I have used the
air lifter
and have found them to last about a year. I always kept a back up on
hand. When you start having a problem with circulation that you can't figure
out, check the air lifter. It might need to be replaced. It may acts as if it
is working, but I have found over time it looses suctioning ability.>
Thanks again for all the help,
<Welcome! Hope this helps! -Mich>
Re: over flow box: air bubbles break siphon - 04/05/07
<Hello again Brian, Mich here.>
Awesome! You have cured my headache thank you.
<You are most welcome!>
I did have a venturi powerhead so I tried to mess with it and couldn't figure
out how to incorporate it with the overflow box, so I did a search online. I
came across a forum that said instead of using a venturi powerhead or an "air
lifter" you can just attach airline tube to the top of the overflow box and
start directly siphoning this to your sump/my refugium. I did this and it
works. The air bubbles are forced to siphon down to my refugium. I think this
is great, but I'm wondering if this is safe (over fill proof). As long as my
tank is safe from loss of power, reverse siphoning from return pump line, and
loss of siphoning from overflow box It should be safe right? Is there any
concerns that you might have about this vs. the "air lifter" or venturi
powerhead.
<My biggest concern was the airline coming out of the sump and siphoning several
gallons of water onto the floor. Also complicating the matter for me, was
airline tubing looks way too much like a kitty toy. In my house this was way
too tempting. You may be OK if there are no four-legged critters or little
two-legged ones!>
Thanks again,
<Welcome! -Mich>
Brian
AGA Megaflow Overflow Boxes 2/20/07
Dear Crew,
<Hey Phil, JustinN with you today.>
I've looked everywhere and even called AGA and got stonewalled. I need to make
some modifications to my overflow boxes and need to know what specific
plastic they are made of. AGA tells me it's proprietary information. They look
and feel like ABS though. Does anybody know for sure?
Thanks for all your help!
Phil Mitchell
<While I don't work for AGA, nor have prior knowledge other than what I've seen
in a consumer realm (as in, I've never been to their factory floor), I can say
with about 95% certainty this is simply black ABS plastic, as you state. I'm a
little surprised AGA is calling it a trade secret, actually. Perhaps this is
simply to discourage modification of the original product and voiding of
warranty? Hope this helps you! -JustinN>
Overflow Crack ? 12/20/06
Greetings WWM. Am very excited to be mailing the gods of aquaria.
<"Always thought I'd be an apostle/disciple"... in my best Superstar voice...>
Lots of info here - please let me know your feelings ...
<It's very pleasant, warm down here visiting in FLA... and I'd really like a
cool beer... oh, that's not what you were hoping for>
thanks. Got a reef ready for fresh water Glasscages 55x23x28 inside-water = 150
net gal with a modified, (w/lotsa work), 45 gal "pre-made" Glasscages acrylic
sump to a wet-dry. Did my homework, it's been three months of work, used sched
80, silicone and glue in all the right places. It is on the main floor, 3/4 in.
Brazilian mahogany, over a weight bearing wall, finished basement below - usa
homeowners insurance no coverage (unless vandals/fire/nature).? Any recommend?
<Mmm, call your agent here re coverage itself>
Used double felt on floor under oversized 5/8 in. plywood foot under modified,
(w/lotsa work), wood cabinet carefully leveled/flat with linoleum, (felt allows
easy sliding everything without water-nice).
<Good tip>
Used 3/4 in. pink foam (as per Glasscages 90 day warr) and linoleum between
stand and tank, to make flat/level. The tank, (very euro braced), is very
flat/level all four sides, with or without water, as measured on the top plastic
trim and/or glass. Top of water to inside bottom of euro glass is 1 1/8 in. all
four corners. Have two center-end, three-side 7x10x29 in. overflows with two 1
1/2 + 1 in. bulkheads ea.
<Mmm, wish these were larger inside diameter... even if fewer in number>
Tank glass is 1/2 in, overflows and euro brace surrounding the bottoms of
overflows, etc is 3/8 in. Used 1 1/2 in deep half in. Mex Beach grey-black pea
gravel - beautiful.? Is it ok?
<For?>
Have had water in it for two months. Ultimately did the fish free cycle thing
with 2-5 ppm ammonia (Ace Janitor Ammonia - comes @ 10% strength) 1 tbs at a
time until nitrate spike.
<Mmm, such exogenous ammonia can be made to be of use...>
Took three weeks and worked great. Three ppm ammonia vanishes in two days now.
Am planning to get all the fish together from the distributor in one visit, via
the best LFS, (fish will never be in the LFS tanks, they recommended this -
sounded good), and put them all in at one time, (after major water change).?
Think this will work?
<Mmm, possibly... hopefully no, little nitrogenous, other cycling issues...
You're doing this to lessen the chances of agonistic behavior? To save time,
money on freight? What re quarantine procedures?>
... so ... After six weeks of water, the side of an overflow cracked from the
bottom outside corner, where the tank bottom meets the side, up 10 inches at a
45 degree angle, towards the center of the tank, across the whole width of the
side of the overflow. The overflow trickle leaks into the overflow only, at the
crack, when empty. There is no outside leak. This means if there is a power
failure, the 29 in high homemade 1 1/2 in. Durso standpipe will drain the tank
down about five inches from top, (to the bottom of the inverted trap/street L),
overflowing the wet dry sump by maybe 20 gals. The Glasscages recommends drain,
cut out the caulking ... silicone a glass patch to the inside or outside of the
cracked pane, and re-caulk.
<Yes... this is what I would do as well>
They say this normally happens because of homeowner leveling/flattening
problems. Wish I could find an angle off on this stuff so I could correct it and
have more confidence.?
<Mmm, floors under load are often different then when tanks are empty... a good
idea to fashion something... at least a piece of plywood under all to even all
out a bit... better to make a more standard support (two plus by...) and set the
tank/stand on this... But, it may well be that an investment in a structural
engineer is in your future here.... See your "Yellow Pages"...>
Am hopeful it was just a glitch, like a pre-existing crack/chip, or glass
measurements/tolerances off, or forgot/didn't put enough silicone under that
piece - oops. Is this a coin flipper, or what do you guys think?
<Glass Cages make good products in my estimation... Impossible to tell re all
the work from here>
Will wait for your wisdom before I do anything ... and ... I have a fish dream.
<"Brothers and sisters">
Am starting them together as juvenile's. 5 veil angels, 8 boesemanni rainbows, 8
Congo's, 5 clown loaches, 3 Bala's(-or-3 tinfoil barbs), 1 gold Severum, 1
stripe headstander, 1 red hook silver dollar, and 3 Siamese algae eaters.? Is
this a good load for my 175 net gals? How would you modify?
<Mmm... well... I'd settle on either a more calm (centering on the Angels) or
brisk (Tinfoils and Red hook) mix/theme here...>
... aanndd ... Am planning a battery back-up to run an air stone. Could you
recommend a comparable/ better air pump than the super Luft 38 - 22w (also, to
put in the cabinet to keep the moisture down, and run a stone with a one way
check valve)?
<There is no better choice IMO>
... Is there a comp/better heater than a won bro titanium pro? ... Is there a
recommended battery air pump? ... Mucho Thanks for your help, Andy
<I do like this heater... Bob Fenner>
Air Bubbles in MegaFlow Return - 12/08/06
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
You have a great website!
<<Thank you>>
Q: I bought a 95-Wave Aquarium from All-Glass Aquarium. The system came with
the All-Glass Aquariums MegaFlow Overflow Accessory Kit. After I start the
system everything is working fine but I noticed that the system was pumping
small air bubbles into the tank. After a while I realize that the "3/4" elbow"
has a little hole that is placed on purpose.
<<To stop back-siphoning when the pump/power is off, yes>>
This small hole is an anti-siphon feature in the event of a power outage.
<<Ah...I should read ahead *grin*>>
When I close (using my finger) the little hole the bubbles will stop.
<<Try positioning the outlet pipe such that the "hole" is "just below" the
surface of the water. This should stop it from entraining air with the water
stream>>
I have seen these systems working in other aquariums and it seems to work fine,
(no air bubbles).
<<Likely the outflow pipe was positioned as I described>>
Can you help me realize what is wrong with the ¾ elbow?
<<Give my suggestion a try. If it is not possible to position the "hole" below
the water line, then block the hole and position the pipe outlet shallow enough
that the sump can handle the transient water in the event of a power outage>>
Best regards,
Luis Miguel Ferrero
<<Cheers mate, Eric Russell>>
Re: Air Bubbles in MegaFlow Return - 12/11/06
Howdy Eric,
<<Hello Luis>>
I did what you recommended me and everything is working fine.
<<Ahh, very good to hear>>
Thanks!
<<You're quite welcome>>
Nevertheless, the weekend I reviewed other systems that utilize the same
Overflow and notice that although the water level did not cover the
small orifice it wasn't throwing air bubbles into the tank. (?)
<<Hmm...perhaps those systems are utilizing smaller pumps/less powerful
flow...or maybe the holes were "plugged">>
Rgds.
Luis Miguel Ferrero
<<Cheers, EricR>>
A possible Solution to noisy Overflows... not likely a good trade-off
4/26/06
Hi There,
<Howdy>
Not a question but maybe a solution. I frequently see queries relating to noisy
overflows and having spent months trying to solve such a problem would like to
share my solution.
<Good>
My setup is 50 Gallon tank with a siphon overflow box. I could not get any
substantial flow rate without a lot of noise, gurgling and air. I tried
aspirating with airline which made a small difference. I installed an
aquasilencer which is basically a modification of a Durso standpipe for a siphon
box, again with some reduction in noise. However I was still not achieving the
rate of flow I wanted.
By decreasing pump output you will reach a point where almost all noise
disappears but this will be at a less than desirable flow rate, particularly if
you are trying to run a Miracle Mud sump for which Ecosystem recommend up to 15
times turnover. Consider this flow rate the "quiet flow rate"
My solution; Increase output from the pump to as much as the overflow will deal
with; ignore the noise and bubbles for now. You now have the maximum
flow rate
the overflow can handle.
<...>
Take a length of 3/8 or 1/2 inch tubing and run it from the overflow box to the
sump and start a siphon. This siphon is silent. You may need a second piece or
a wider bore tube. Basically you want the tube to carry the difference between
the "quiet flow rate" and "maximum flow rate". If the tube blocks or loses siphon
there is no risk of flooding as the main overflow can handle the total flow rate
albeit noisily, and you'll know as soon as you enter the room that something is
up.
<... what if the pump quits for whatever reason? The siphon will drain the tank
to the siphon intake depth... overflow the sump...>
It may not be a conventional solution and I have not seen it recommended on WWM
before but it turned a noisy intrusive marriage wrecker into a soothing trickle
in the corner, so worth a go!
David
<... I'd think this over a bit... Bob Fenner>
Re: A possible Solution to noisy Overflows 4/26/06
Hi Bob,
<David>
No , the siphon tube cannot empty the tank as it is draining from the overflow
box
<Oh... thank you for this>
so depending on the size of the box it can only move a few litres to the sump.
In a "self-starting" style siphon overflow box ,if the end of the tube is kept
above the level of the bottom of the primary siphon tube the unit will not
"lose" it's ability to restart in the case of a power outage.
<I see/understand. Mis-read>
I have this up and running and cannot find a logical flaw in the process..
however there is always someone out there who will and I'd be happy to deal with
it.
David
<Does seem/read as a worthwhile "work-around"... though it would be better to
aspirate the existing drain line/s from the overflow or increase this... or add
another... or drill the tank... Bob Fenner>
Re: A possible Solution to noisy Overflows - 04/26/06
Hi Bob,
<David>
Yes, I agree, drilling the tank would be the best option but not one available
to me. Of the MANY lessons I have learned from setting up this small tank, in
advance of my "ideal" tank, one is that you cannot have enough overflows and in
fact am looking at the possibility of incorporating a full length weir flowing
directly into the sump in my next tank.
<Neat>
I have tried aspirating the overflow but the results are nowhere near as
impressive as the additional siphon.
<Thank you for this additional input>
Keep up the good work.
David
<Am trying! BobF>
180 AGA with twin overflows question - 05/19/2006
Hello WWM Crew,
Love your site. Your FAQs are always the first place I look when I have
aquarium questions, and I couldn't seem to find the answer to the issue I am
facing with my brand new 180gal (6'x2'x2') AGA with twin Mega-Flow overflows and
an AGA Model 4 Sump.
The tank is built into the wall in my basement, on a DIY stand made from 4x4s,
2x4s, plywood, and carriage bolts. The concrete basement floor is not level,
but I purchased a 4' carpenter's level to help me with properly leveling the
aquarium. I spent the better part of an afternoon leveling, filling, draining,
shimming, and re-leveling the aquarium until I've reached the point where I am
satisfied that the tank is level. The bubble is inside the lines no matter
where I place the carpenter's level on top of the aquarium.
Here comes my problem, I fill the tank up and the water spills over the overflow
boxes, but the left overflow box seems to fill up faster than the right overflow
box. Does this mean that my tank is still not level? It took the right
overflow box almost another full minute to fill to the point where the water
drained down the Durso standpipe into the sump.
Could this be an issue with the way my tank was manufactured, as in maybe one
overflow box was off by a few MMs when it was assembled/siliconed? Or is it more
likely that my tank is still not "perfectly" level? Is this something that I
should be concerned about? Will this reduce my flow significantly out of the
right overflow box into the sump?
Any thoughts you may have are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Dave
<<Dave: I have the same tank on a stand. While I don't have stand pipes, my
overflows seem to drain about the same. It could also be the height of the
teeth at the top is different or the number of teeth on one side versus the
other. If you are convinced that your tank is level (you might want a second
opinion from someone else to make sure), then everything will probably be
OK. Another test of whether it is level or not might be performed by measuring
the height of the water to the top of the tank with a ruler around various
points. If it's the same, you're probably level. Best of luck, Roy>>
Overflow Not Skimming - 07/04/06
Hey Crew-
<<Hey Brenton!>>
It's been a while so I guess that's a good thing!!
<<Hee!>>
I have a 100G reef and a 55G refugium tank going into a wet/dry box. In my 100G
the skimmer box/overflow works great, but the setup with the 55G tank's skimmer
box/overflow doesn't work as well as it should.
<<Hmm...perhaps due to decreased flow vs. the display?>>
It seems that I can't get the water level inside the skimmer box low enough for
the surface tension to be broken before going out through the U-tube.
<<...?>>
If I look at the surface of the water from underneath I can see what looks like
an oil slick covering the entire surface, except for a little area where my
return U-tube is located.
<<But this "slick" is only in the skimmer box, not on the surface of the
refugium, yes? Little concern if so...is being mixed/drawn out>>
The water level in my 55G is only 1/4" higher than the level in the skimmer
box. The difference in my 100G tank is almost 3".
<<Differences in flow rates>>
I have a Model 7 pump feeding the 100G (1" overflow tube) and a Model 3 (350
GPH) going to the 55G (1" and a 3/4" overflow tube, yes 2 tubes at
once). Without the 2 overflow tubes the skimmer box "floods", meaning the water
level of the tank equals that of the skimmer box.
<<Mmm...obviously the siphon on the display is much more efficient than those on
the 'fuge. Perhaps studying these will reveal the problem>>
Is this pump too powerful for the amount of water in the tank?
<<Has nothing to do with the size of the tank...my guess is it's a function of
the position of the refugium (height above the sump) and the design efficiency
of the plumbing...or lack thereof <grin> >>
With the DSB I think I only added 25-30G of actual water.
<<Shouldn't matter, the 1" pipe should be able to easily drain the input from
the 350 gph pump>>
When I bought the pump I didn't take the reduced volume of water into account,
and now think I should have gone with the Model 2 (250 GPH). Any ideas on how I
can remedy this problem?
<<Look to the plumbing, see if you're trapping air somewhere. I really don't
feel it's a matter of "pump" size>>
Thanks as always.
Brenton,
San Francisco
<<Always welcome, EricR...in MUGGY South Carolina
Water Noise vs. Flow Rates - 06/30/06
Hi!
I am looking for a solution to eliminate noise from the overflow.
<<A very common venture>>
I tried everything and I started to believe a silent overflow is a myth.
<<Hee! Indeed! At least at the "higher" flow rates>>
Now there is a way and it would be to dramatically reduce the flow rate.
<<This is what I always advocate. There are other things you can do to
help...such as aspirating the return lines, submerging/adding ells to the
termination ends, etc. ...but reducing flow probably makes the single largest
difference. Few hobbyists (if any) need to push 1500gph or more through their
sump. Much easier to deal with a sub- 1000gph flow rate here...employing other
methods for increased flow in the display as/if necessary>>
I have reached the point where it's either that or get rid of the sump and
install an external skimmer.
<<Mmm, let's work on quieting that overflow...>>
Right now the skimmer is in the 1st chamber of the sump. There is already good
circulation in the display (15X per hour) from 2 Tunze Stream 6100 with a
multicontroller.
<<Excellent! Reducing flow through the overflow/sump should not be an issue
then>>
I do a 5% weekly water change. Most of the sump (25 gal) is in fact a fuge for
plankton/pod production and macro-algae.
<<All the more reason to keep it>>
Display is 90 gal reef with 150lbs Fiji LR and sugar fine 5"
DSB. In these circumstances do you see any long term problems involved in
having a flow rate from the return pump of only 6X per day instead of 6X per
hour?
<<Mmm...if I understand you, this would equate to just over 20gph (540gph
divided by 24hrs). This is slower than I like, but I think a flow rate of
200gph-300gph would be fine...and easily dealt with/made quiet>>
If I may ask at the same time a bioload question.
<<Sure>>
I am thinking of some change and would like to know if this is too many fish.
<<Okay>>
Is this a heavy bioload with my set-up, would I be on the edge? :
-2 Ocellaris
-5 to 7 Chromis viridis
-1 clown goby (Gobiodon histrio)
-1 mandarin
-1 Tailspot blenny (genus Ecsenius)
-1 yellow tang (Z. flavescens)
<<This would indeed fill you up. I would like to suggest you forego the
mandarin. This tank isn't really large enough (refugium or not) in my opinion
to be able to provide the necessary nutritional needs for this fish for the long
term. I would also suggest you keep the number of Chromis to 5, until you see
what (if any) behavioral/environmental issues develop>>
Lastly, would an Ecsenius blenny (like the Tailspot) be helpful to control
Caulerpa growth in the display?
<<I doubt it...the Combtooth blennies are more "filamentous" algae feeders. The
tang will probably be more useful for this purpose, though there's no guarantee
of that either>>
And what about a tuxedo blue urchin (Mespilia globulus) for that same purpose?
<<A neat critter...and likely a worthwhile addition...but it too will probably
go for your hair, and most assuredly your coralline, algae first. You best bet
re removal of the Caulerpa is manual extraction. If you can manual reduce it
enough, the tang might be able to keep it in check for you. I guess you'll know
better than to add this to your display next time, eh! <grin> >>
Many many thanks!
Dominique
<<Quite welcome. Regards, EricR>>
Re: Water Noise vs. Flow Rates 7/1/06
Thanks Eric!
<<You're very welcome Dominique>>
The Caulerpa I didn't add to the display and not even to the fuge as I am using
Chaetomorpha and red Gracilaria instead.
<<Ah yes, much better choices in my opinion. I utilize Chaetomorpha in my
refugium myself>>
It just appeared there uninvited and in two species.
<<Hate it when that happens...>>
Regarding the mandarin I have to say I kept one for 7 months and it was still
fat, but it jumped out of the tank.
<<Hmm, I've never known/heard these fish to be jumpers. Would make me think
environmental conditions/tank mates were not suitable for it...possibly. Please
don't misunderstand my tone here <grin>, but the vast majority of these fish
"slowly" starve to death within twelve months. There's always exceptions, and
of course those few dedicated hobbyists (maybe you're one of these!) that strive
to provide suitable care/environments for these fish...but for the majority of
folks, Synchiropus species are best left in the ocean. If you're
determined/dedicated to keeping this fish, please research all you can re their
care/husbandry on our site and the net in general>>
This made me place a net in an anodized aluminum frame over the top of the tank
so it won't ever happen again. So to summarize your answer: bioload should be
ok (I won't get more than 5 Chromis) and even thought it's not ideal I should
not have problems with the 20gph flow rate.
<<Indeed...a couple hundred gallons per hour at least. If noise is still an
issue, do write back and I’ll gladly address this with you further>>
Thanks again!
Dominique
<<Cheers my friend, EricR>>
Equipment...Tank Modification 8/19/06
Hey guys/gals...
<Hello Dave>
This may be my fastest question yet...
<And, my fastest answer.>
and I'm pretty sure you don't have anything posted on your resources.
I have a pretty standard 90 gallon that's been running for 4yrs. I want to
start getting into corals and am taking the necessary steps to accommodate
them. I bought a Tunze Wavebox thinking that the massive yet gentle flow back
and forth would be great for the corals...
<Is>
however, my corner overflow in the tank was built a touch too high. I have
about 2cm of room between the water top and the lip of the top border around the
tank. Tunze recommends a MINIMUM of 5cm. I don't want to drain the tank and
have the overflow ripped out. The plastic (or whatever it is) border on the top
that includes the lip for which to place the glass covers (do u <you> know what
I am talking about?)...
<Yes>
from what I've seen, most tanks have them. Can this be easily knocked off the
top or removed??
<If you are talking about the black/oak trim on the top of the tank,
<<Is not... is talking re the inside structure for the tank's overflow... if
plastic of some sort this can be cut, though not easily... I would drain the
tank to do this... many bits of plastic otherwise... RMF>>
(glass tank
I presume??) this small lip that supports the glass can be
removed to accommodate the space the wavemaker needs. Is this is what you have in
mind? Have you ever heard of anyone building more height onto their tank?
<No, not safely.>
I'd like another inch or inch and a half. Note, the water level would never be
higher than the original sturdy glass... the extra inch or so of glass would
merely serve as to accommodate the little 5cm water movement from the wave. Any
suggestions, comments, advice??
<I'd contact Tunze with the above question, get some input from them. http://www.tunze.com/117.html?C=US&L=1>
If not... would a Tunze Wavebox have any outstanding benefit in a fish only
predator tank of 200 gallons?
<Yes, very beneficial. Will help keep detritus/waste suspended for more
efficient removal from the tank. Also has a
cleansing effect on the rocks, corals, etc. James (Salty Dog)>
Dave
Overflow Noise/Glass Scratches - 08/15/06
Hi,
<<Hello!>>
I have a 54G RR Corner tank with a 1" drain and a 3/4" return.
<<Sadly undersized throughputs...even on this volume of water>>
I bought the whole reef set up used, but I can't imagine how the previous owner
tolerated the noise!
<<Mmm, indeed...you can't really put much water through a 1" drain before it
becomes problematic>>
I installed a 1.25" Durso standpipe (1" did not work, now I follow directions,
doh!). I have a 1/8" drilled hole in the top of the T of the Durso. It was
fascinating to watch the relationship between the air hole size, the drain line
position relative to the sump water level, and the gurgling and flushing effect.
<<Ah yes, you are finding out just how "fiddly" it can be. I would like to
suggest you try enlarging the hole just enough to push some airline tubing
through and down in to the standpipe. This will help with aspirating/releasing
air from the drain line and often eases the gurgling sounds. It will take some
experimentation to determine the best length/diameter tubing to insert>>
As I slowly increased the air hole from a pinhole up to 1/8", I observed the
step by step decrease in flushing effect amplitude.
<<Yes...allowing that air I mentioned to escape more readily>>
It started at about a 3-inch oscillation, at 1/8, it was gone
completely. Adjusting the drain pipe position also impacted the flushing effect
and required small changes in the air hole.
<<Pretty much all comes down to eliminating the obstructions (air bubbles) to
the water flow>>
OK, on to my questions: I have extensive bubbling/gurgling noise in the sump
from the drain.
<<From air that is "carried" down the line by the water>>
I have read on WWM two things to try: A "T" or "Y" fitting on the drain line,
and aspirating the drain line from the top with air line tubing.
<<Yes indeedy...though I prefer a 45- or 90-degree ell fitting on the end of the
drain line>>
I am confused about the specifics of both of these. For the T or Y fitting, how
is it positioned?
<<Is of little consequence...just position to direct flow in the direction you
desire>>
I am guessing that it goes at the bottom of the drain line, with one leg
submerged and one leg above the sump water level?
<<Mmm, okay...I think I'm with you now. The purpose of the fitting on the end
of the drain line is to "slow" the rush of water a bit. So...experiment with
the position to determine which gives you best results. Either way you position
it, I find that having the end of the drain line completely submerged usually
works best. And do be aware, it is usually not practical to expect a 1" drain
to flow more than about 300/350 gph without much hassle and noise, as you seem
to be experiencing>>
For the aspiration tubing, is the tube supposed to have its own hole separate
from the existing air line in the Durso T cap?
<<Refer to my earlier comments re>>
Or does it simply go down the same hole?
<<Yup!>>
It also seems to me that the bubble/gurgle would be reduced if I had the water
break on some live rock rubble or other irregular surface.
<<Can give it a try>>
I think I have seen reference to using filter pad material.
<<A detritus trap>>
Next question: Even though I only have about a 2-inch drop from the overflow
wall to the top of the water behind it, it still makes an annoying, trickle
noise that induces the need to visit the bathroom at night (tank is in the
bedroom).
<<Hee!>>
I am thinking of installing some kind of stepladder down to the surface. Or
perhaps a piece of filter pad would also suffice. How have you seen this done?
<<Raise the height of the standpipe to raise the surface of the water in the
overflow...it only needs to "fall" a fraction of an inch or so>>
Last, the tank is used, and has a good number of extremely fine scratches that
are visible depending on angle and lighting. I have read that you generally shy
away from glass polishing/buffing, but that usually seemed to be because the
e-mailer was asking about significant/deep scratches. What do you think about
using a commercial buffer on an orbital drill pad, and follow with a thorough
cleaning?
<<I think you'll do one of two things...nothing at all...or make it
worse. Scratches in glass "can" be repaired/removed, but unless you really know
what you're doing/have done this before, I recommend you refer to a professional
for advice/consultation. You may find it is easier/cheaper to replace the
tank...or learn to ignore/accept the scratches>>
Jack
<<Regards, EricR>>
Refugium Size/Overflow Surge/Skimmer Adjustment - 08/25/06
Hi Everyone,
<<Hello Diana!>>
I just installed a Refugium (it is 36"x18"x13" with the refugium being 15"x13"
does that seem big enough for my tank?) on my 150 Gallon reef tank.
<<Whether this is "big enough" is a question that can't really be
answered...bigger the better as you are probably aware. But the fact it is
there "will" provide benefit to your system>>
I have two pumps in my return (one for returning water straight back to the tank
the other goes thru the chiller and UV light).
Now here is my problem.......When I have both pumps running the overflow on one
side of the tank is putting out air thru the hose back into the skimmer area.
<<Is having problems handling the volume...efficiently>>
It seems like the overflow pipe is filling up to fast with water and the air
hole in the overflow pipe can't keep up so it creates suction. Does this make
sense?
<<Sorta <grin>. What's happening is the volume of water traveling through the
pipe with both pumps running is trapping/preventing the air in the pipe from
escaping efficiently. This are is then pushed to the sump (the bubbles you see
being created there) and/or building to the point that it surges back up the
overflow pipe (intermittent rushing/flushing sounds)>>
My question is how it comes that it only does it on one side and when both pumps
are running (I guess I answered that one already since it is putting more water
into the tank with both pumps on).
<<Indeed>>
Now my main question would be how I can fix this problem? Any help would be
appreciated as I would like to get my water flow going again and make my fishies
and corals happy.
<<The easiest solution would be to install gate-valves on the "output" side of
the pumps and temper the flow down to what the overflow can quietly and
efficiently handle. Another approach is to "aspirate" the return line by
inserting a length of small diameter tubing (exact diameter and length of
insertion will require experimentation do determine optimum performance) to help
with the escape of entrained air from the line. This method will usually yield
some improvement to water flow but is no panacea on its own and will probably
work best if employed with the addition of the gate-valves as mentioned
previously>>
One other quick question, if you don't mind.
<<Not at all...>>
I just hooked up an ASM G2 Skimmer in my refugium and I was wondering if there
is any hints on how to get it working just right (as of now I'm only getting
greenish water)?
<<Simple adjustment of the riser-pipe will change the concentration of the
skimmate. If the skimmate is too thin for your liking, adjusting the riser-pipe
"down" will lower the water level in the skimmer body yielding a thicker
skimmate... you will likely have to "play" with the adjustment a bit to find the
desired height/skimmate production>>
Thank You,
Diana
<<Quite welcome. EricR>>
Overflow box problems - 09/03/06
Help
I have a 75 gallon vertical tank, octagon shaped. I have a wet dry filtration
system with a typical overflow box. Every time I stick my hand into the tank to
try and clean or feed my animals the overflow box stops working.
<Too touchy for my comfort...>
I know my hand and arm displace water but it is very frustrating to go through
to process of restarting the wet dry circulation every time I put my arm in the
tank.
Any recommendations?
Frustrated.
<Yes... I'd add another overflow... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/overfloboxfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Overflow, flow, noise... 9/2/05
With a standard (AGA/Oceanic) one inch overflow (on a 90 gallon tank),
would it be correct that about 300 gph is all that can be run through
that (via a Durso) without the up/down flushing effect?
<This is about it>
I've found my
Panworld 50PX (590 gph max) has to be ball-valved back probably about
50% to keep it quiet. Wider diameter pipe before and after the hole
really can't do much here, right (the Oceanic Durso is already upsized)?
<Correct>
The only answer I assume would be to have a larger hole which isn't
going to be an option for me. Still, heavy in-tank circulation can
compensate for this low flow I presume. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd want
a heck of a lot more flow going through the sump. I appears I'm going
to have a hard enough time quieting the water noise from water crashing
into the sump?
<Possibly... there are a few approaches here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbnoisefaqs.htm>
Any clever ways to quiet the water flowing and crashing
in the sump, other than say sinking the drain line and perhaps having a
"T" below the water line in the sump to both smooth out the flow and
break the one flow into many? Like most folks, I'd like to make things
as quite as humanly possible.
<I understand... Please see the link above. Bob Fenner>
Overflow Covers? 3/3/06
Hello,
I have a custom made Oceanic glass tank. Approximate dimensions are 63"L x 28"W
x 50"H.
<! Wowzah... four plus feet tall? Mmm, maybe the stated W and H are mixed...>
Do you know are there any companies or products out there that make covers for
the overflow box.
<I would check with the manufacturer here... or resolve to make these yourself
(not hard to do...>
In a tank this large I am having a hard time adequately covering or hiding the
box. Any suggestions?
<Mmm, large stacked piles of rock decor... fashioning faux material to fit
over/around... is this a marine system?>
Do you recommend gluing any live rock to the box?
<Good question, and no...>
I really don't know where to go for ideas. Thanks again for a great site and
all of the great info. You guys rock!!!
Thanks,
Skip
<Check with Oceanic here for their suggestions, and please relate what they
state back to us for sharing. Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Re: Overflow Covers? 3/4/06
Bob,
Thanks for the reply. The dimensions of the tank are correct. It is closer to
a square if you can imagines that look.
<Ooof, I can. Glad I wasn't there for moving day!>
Anyway, I contacted Oceanic who recommended using epoxy to attach the rock to
the cover.
Why don't you like this idea? I have been given this suggestion by several
dealers now and am always curious to hear the other argument.
<Mainly the lack of ease of changing this... not easy, practical to "bust off"
later>
Oceanic did give me the name of an individual in the Dallas area that does them
(but it is quite pricey). They also recommended that I call a
company called Aquarium Design Group in the Houston area. After some more
searching on the web I did find that brand new this month, Living
Color www.livingcolor.com, launched a new line of pre-formed overflow covers.
<Oh?>
5 different styles to match your setup. Actually pretty cool.
<Sounds very good>
I did speak with them and they can make customized versions, although the price
was definitely getting up there. I think I would rather put
the money into other things for the tank. Anyway hopes this helps.
Will be interested to hear your answer on epoxy use on the overflow.
Thanks again for all of the info.
Take Care,
Skip
<Though it's a bunch of stacking... am still a fan of piled rock. Cheers, Bob
Fenner>
- Tank Modifications -
Good evening/morning folks!
<Morning here...>
Have a quick one for you.
<Promise?>
I am buying a 200 GAL Glass tank with corner overflows. Unfortunately, as we all know, the pre-drilled overflows are too small (1" Overflow (2X) and 3/4" Return (2X)) drilled in the bottom corners in an overflow box.
I was wondering if it would be possible/feasible/advisable to cut a piece of glass to size, silicone the heck out of it and cover the holes and
re-drill larger holes in the back wall at the water line. Do you think this would hold?
<Yes.>
Or is it a good place for a leak to form?
<Should work fine... method has been used to repair tanks of all types. Don't be stingy with the silicone.>
Was thinking about drilling (2X) 2" holes for Overflow for corner boxes and (2X) 1.5" holes for the return in the center back (am planning on also adding a manifold around the perimeter for extra flow/turbulence).
As always, you folks are the best! Don't know what we'd do without you!
Tom (The Tool Man)
<Cheers, J -- >
Circulation Problems in a Reef Tank, Needs to Visit
Conjunction/Punctuation Junction, too
I am having a problem balancing the water flow [going] from [the] main tank to sump,
[then] from sump to refuge [that is] above main tank, and [then back] from sump to
main. I have a 58 gallon tank.
<Oh oh...>
I drilled the back glass. I have 2-1" bulkheads about 4" up from bottom of tank in the center for drains.
<Where?...!>
I also have 2 -1" bulkheads drilled on the ends of the back glass. 1-about 4" from top of tank and the
other about 6" up from the bottom of tank on both sides.
<?!>
I have a 5 gallon refuge which sits right at the top of the tank. On the refuge I
have a 3/4 bulkhead for water return from sump. Then [I have] a 1" bulkhead for drain into main tank. I have a Euro- fill 180 30 gallon sump that set[s]
under main tank. Inside main tank I have an overflow box 19" tall by 8' across 6" from front to back covering the 2 1' bulkheads. I have two
Durso stand pipes connected to the 1" drains, going with 1 "1/4 pipe for the stand pipes. In the sump I have an ASM
G1-X skimmer. For return pumps I have 2 Rio Hyper Flow 14 HF power heads; these pumps are rated at 840
gal [gph] at 1', 660 [gph] at 4'.
I have a 3/4 PVC pipe running up to the two discharges into main tank. The other pump is hard plumbed to the 3/4
bulkhead in [the] refuge. I also have a standpipe in refuge to drain back into main with a baffle where the discharge comes from sump. I tried this,
but the force from the pump was really strong, causing a lot of bubbles in refuge and main tank, a lot of micro bubbles in main tank.
Over all circulation was good, levels stayed even in all tanks, just a lot of micro
bubbles.
I tried to split the return from pump in sump to refuge and have 1 discharge go to refuge, 1 to main tank, but because discharge is
higher on refuge than [the] 1 going directly to main tank that water would go to
[the] lowest discharge and would not then go to refuge also. I then tried using valves to regulate water flow between the 2 discharges, but when I
did this my overflow box began the flushing effect, [the] system would not balance out. Still had micro bubbles in main tank. Went back to 1
discharge to refuge, cut the flow back with valve, still had flushing with drains plus strain on pump.
[I] did see a reduction in micro bubbles in main tank. I tried using 1 pump from sump, micro bubbles almost gone but
barely have any overflow, not sure if this is enough circulation for corals hard and soft.
For the 2 bulkheads on each side of [the] drains I made a close[d] loop on each one these, have a
Mag 9.5 hook[ed] to a SCWD - one for surface, one SCWD for lower jet bulkheads. I do not know how to get rid of
the micro bubbles [and] keep the same flow with the 2 Rio pumps, or if I need to for
circulation [and] supply the refuge [to] keep it balanced with out the flushing and micro bubbles. I added a another baffle in sump right
after [the] drain, before [the] skimmer, with 2 baffles after skimmer. I really did not
want to use sponges or filter socks. Any Help would be greatly thankful.
Thanks Jeff.
<Well, you have two issues... the circulation can be fixed only by re-drilling larger through-puts... unless you want to greatly reduce water flow... I would NOT have holes drilled near the bottom of tanks... as the consequences of power outage or pump failure from below will prove disastrous... Therefore I would silicone covers over these... The bubbles can be addressed by a few means... likely the best for you here is the use of Dacron "socks" over the discharge lines (below)... and baffles to provide air-free water to your pumps. Bob Fenner>
Water Level Fluctuation in Overflow
Dear Crew:
<Paul>
The water level in my overflow fluctuates by about an inch every 10 seconds.
<... not large enough, water level/s too low... pump/s too large flow rate/s...>
If the water level drops close to the opening of the Durso-type standpipe, an irritating suction sound is generated.
<Yep>
What can be causing this periodic fluctuation in water level?
<See above>
Why is the flow through the standpipe not constant?
<Transit volume issue. Your water is "oscillating" twixt your system above and below... due to insufficient plumbing, and/or pumping flow>
I have an Oceanic 75-gallon tank with a "Mega-Flow" overflow and an Oceanic standpipe that is similar in design to a Durso standpipe. The overflow
empties into a 29-gallon refugium with an Iwaki MD-30RXT pump. I had replaced the Oceanic bulkheads with PVC connectors to increase the size of the openings
by 1/4" and to increase the water flow.
<Good move. You may still need to add water (take care to measure... with the power turned off... so as to avoid flooding) to the sump... reduce the flow rate of the pump... Bob Fenner> Modify Reef Ready
I have a 75 AGA reef ready tank, it currently has a 1" drain and a 3/4" return.
<Dismally small fittings>
I'm wanting to increase flow into my sump so I can use a Mag 24 (36 would be great
but probably not possible.) to power a manifold with 7 tees. Thought I could use the 3/4" return as another
drain to the sump with a Durso standpipe,
so I would have a 3/4" and 1" drain.
<Still way too insufficient... you need two- two inch drain lines... minimum here>
Now, what can I do/needs to be done to maximize my reef ready overflow to max out
my bulkhead drains (have been reading that the overflows don't work the best). I'll use the Mag in
the sump. Currently have a velocity T4 external
plumbed. Reason for the modify is I want to increase flow quite a bit but want to remove my powerheads and
not add more... already been established for a few years so drilling for closed loop is out of question.
Thought of using my return as a manifold.
<... you need to rethink all this... either go with hang-on overflow boxes, or bite the proverbial bullet... drain the tank, have it re-drilled. You can read on WWM re... Bob Fenner> Re: Modify Reef Ready Turnover
Hi Bob:
<May the Force be with ye!>
Thanks for the quick reply!! In keeping with all the hoopla...I'm having a Star Wars moment. Actually speaking with the Yoda of the hobby!!
<Geez, and I can't get Di (wife) out to see Lucas' sixth and supposedly last in the series... And hey, I'm taller than two feet, and not quite as green I be>
I think that I was unclear or I am misinterpreting your answer. I'll give it another try.... When I said the tank has 2 x 1" overflows, I was only
referring to the lines to the sump. The tank has two separate corner overflows, each with 1" overflow and 1" return.
<Ahh!>
I'm not sure whether that was clear. Does this affect your response?
<Indeed it does>
I get the sense that you were saying that I may be able to get the flow close with the four holes, but
re-drilling would be better.
<Yes>
Thanks again for the help. Take care, Greg.
<Will endeavor to do I will. BobdaF> - Fish Overboard, Or At Least into the Overflow -
There are postings in WWM about fish jumping into the overflow filter, but I
have not found suggestions for how to get them out (without taking down the
whole system).
I have an Oceanic overflow trickle filter in an Oceanic 72 gallon fish/reef
tank. There is an extremely small gap between the cover glass and the rim of
the overflow filter, too thin I would think for anything to jump through.
However, I do remove the cover glass to clean it once in a while. Perhaps during
one of those cleanings a Percula Clown made the leap into the overflow box. <I
had a clownfish that would end up in the overflow of my 180 Oceanic all the time
- once a day.> He is surviving (the last time I looked), apparently feeding off
food that comes in through the three rows of drain holes at the top, middle, and
near the bottom of the tank.
The box has plumbing inside it, and the clever Clown hides beneath the plumbing
whenever I look down the box with a flashlight. I only catch glimpses of
him. Without the plumbing, I could use a long handled net and return him to the
main tank. However, even if he did not hide, I have difficulty moving a net in
the free space. Any suggestions short of taking the whole thing apart? <I
actually used to catch mine with my bare hand as it was easier to do and almost
impossible with a net. Move slow and be patient. After a while, my clownfish got
used to it and when I reached my hand in there, would just stop swimming and let
me catch it. Anyway, breaking down the overflow plumbing would be a pain...
would do that as a last resort.>
I've learned about plastic gutter guard and egg crate and will be installing
that to prevent this from occurring again. Also, I lost a Nudibranch to suction
through the drain holes and am hoping that the gutter guard will prevent that
from reoccurring. Any pointers on where to find a design for installing the
gutter guard and egg crate? <Probably just use nylon wire-ties... affix over the
overflow.> I understand one is in BOCP1 but can't find it there.
<Cheers, J -- > - Fish
Overboard, Or At Least into the Overflow, Follow-up -
Thanks. <My pleasure.> It makes sense that it would be easier to catch it
with the hand than with the net. Glad to know that others have had this problem;
at least, I know that it is solvable. <Well... both: a rather common problem and
also easily solved. Good luck catching your fish.
Cheers, J -- >
Bulkhead - 07/01/05 actually transit volume in tank/sump... mis-matched
Good day,
<<Hello!>>
Once again I have only one place to turn to for help. (Thanks again for all your
support and advice).
<<Our pleasure.>>
I have been struggling with this for days, read a multitude of FAQ's and still
can't figure out what I'm missing. I'm busy setting up my new 150 gallon tank
and I just can't figure out how
to make the bulkhead overflows work properly.
<<Okay?>>
I have 2 x 1.5" (or 40mm) bulkhead fittings high up in the back wall of the
tank. On the inside of the tank nothing is connected (its just 2 holes with
"tank connectors) <<Intake screens?>> and on the outside it's connected to
90-degree elbows which connect to
the pipes going down to the sump.
<<Sounds fine so far.>> <T's with their open ends open to the air
would be better. RMF>
The inside diameter of the bulkheads and all pipes is 40mm (or 1.5").
<<Good to hear...bigger the better.>>
I was under the impression that these 2 simple holes in the tank will easily
drain 1000gph, so for the return pump in my sump I bought something that pumps
at 1000gph.
<<Yes, I too would expect the pair to handle 1000gph.>>
Now, when I switch on my pump in the sump, the following happens - as the water
level rises, it starts flowing into the two drain holes an down into the sump.
However, the draining starts slowly at first and only increases in tempo as the
water level rises.
<<Yes...takes some water pressure to overcome the air pressure in the lines.>>
When the water level becomes high enough so that the overflow holes are about
halfway submerged, the overflow starts matching the rate of the inflow from the
pump. The problem is, by this time the return chamber in my sump is empty and
the pump starts sucking in air.
<<Simple matter of your sump not being large enough my friend. The sump should
be big enough to hold a "working" level/quantity of water IN ADDITION TO the
"drain-off" from the tank when the pump is off.>>
Now unless I'm making a really stupid mistake somewhere it seems that with these
bulkhead overflows you have to push quite a lot of water into the tank first
before the overflow "kicks in".
<<Laws of physics at work here. You might ease/help things a bit by aspirating
your return lines.>>
Can you perhaps give some advice here ? How do you normally set up these
bulkhead overflows? I believe that the inside of the bulkhead is sometimes
connected to an elbow that bends up, but unfortunately this is not an option for
me (because the holes are quite high up on the tank wall).
<<A bottom drilled tank with overflow box "might" require less water volume to
get things going due to rapid build up of water height (weight) in the overflow
box...but you haven't done anything wrong here, you simply need a larger sump
volume of water.>>
Am I just missing some simple concept here or do I just need a much
larger sump to cater for the initial "kick off" of the overflow
(Really didn't think my sump was too small)?
<<I think for this application your sump is too small.>>
Your help will be very much appreciated.
Thanks
Chris
<<Regards, Eric R.>>
Re: Bulkhead - 07/02/05
Thanks a lot Eric, I don't know where some of us would be without your help.
<<Always a pleasure to assist <G>.>>
Have a good weekend.
<<And you too.>>
Chris
<<Eric R.>>
Plumbing suggestions? 7/21/05
Greetings Bob and crew...
<Sam>
Suffice it to say that you guys have been quite helpful in the past, and
continue to provide an incredibly valuable service to the hobby. Thank you.
<Welcome>
I'm getting really tantalizingly close to being ready for live rock (happy
dreams of LR critters poking around), and just have this one, last plumbing
issue before all of my ducks are in a row. Would like to see if I'm on the
right track.
<Sure>
Here's what I've got. 125 gal tank. 1" drain,
<Only one?>
with a Durso standpipe. The drain hits a T which routes water to the sump for
processing, and also
splits water to the refugium, which gravity feeds back into the sump.
Return water is pushed back to the tank via an Iwaki 30RLT, which is linked
to a SCWD, returning water alternately to two 3/4 inch returns. All
plumbing via vinyl tubing. Limiting factors as I see them are the 1"
bulkhead on the drain, and the 3/4 inch connections on the SCWD,
necessitating 3/4 inch returns. Additional current via a PanWorld 50 PX-X
(1100gph) feeding a closed loop.
<I do wish... you had two 1 1/2" drains, two 1" returns...>
Here's what's happening. With about four extra inches of water in the sump
to prime the system, I'm able to raise the water level enough that water is
returning via the drain. However, even as the water is returning from the
tank, the pump is pulling enough water that the sump level is falling below
the pump intake, resulting in lots of cavitation.
<Trouble... drain lines too small, sump too little water for transit volume>
Looking at the 1" drain
tubing, its not draining at the full capacity of the tubing, which is the
same diameter as the opening in the bulkhead.
<... a common misperception... the line doesn't "suck" water out of the tank...
water has to "pile up" higher... drain>
My first thought was that the pump was pushing more water than the drain was
capable of handling.
<In a manner of speaking, yes>
I now am not convinced that this is the case.
Considering the SCWD, the 90-degree fitting on the openings of the 3/4 inch
returns (and the spring activated check valve) I've got something like 9
feet of head according to Reef Central.
<The model there is necessarily a simplification>
Looking at the spec.s on the 30RLT,
with that much head pressure, I shouldn't even be approaching 600gph, which
I believe is somewhere in the area of the max capacity of the 1' bulkhead.
<Uh... no... there are a few very important (co)factors involved... the vinyl
tubing has some induced drag, the extent of the horizontal run from the
bulkhead...>
I'd considered slipping a gate/ball valve on the output of the return pump,
but really don't think that's the answer.
<It is not>
Perhaps I need a slightly larger
hole in the cap of the standpipe? Or perhaps just adding a few more gallons
of water in the sump for the pump to prime the system?
<No my friend... the root of the problem here is really the lack of size, number
of through-puts... you won't be able to get enough water through what you have>
This is my first foray into plumbing an admittedly rather intricate system,
and as such, would be interested in any suggestions you could provide. Am
also curious if there might have been value in hard plumbing the system,
<Yes... in some cases, some flexible is a good idea... but in most... rigid is
preferable... for how many reasons?>
as it seems like there might not have been as many issues utilizing straight
lines and angles. I assume that that the other side of that sword is that
with the vinyl tubing, I likely have less head pressure than a similar set
up using elbows.
Thanks in advance,
Sam King
<Sam, do read over the Plumbing materials we have archived on WWM... there's a
bunch. And do have some other folks with similar systems chat with you re
yours... I would have the tank drilled for two 1 1/2" bulkheads (two inch
diameter) and use the existing through-puts for returns. Bob Fenner... who has
"been t/here, done this... many, many times>
Overflow Box 7/25/05
I am very new to this and I just decided to switch from a canister filter to
a sump since my tank is not drilled I purchased an over flow box now I cannot
make it work can you help me?? Bobbie Jo <Bobbie Jo, don't know what you are
having trouble with. I'm guessing you can't get the siphon started. Need to
fill the overflow box with water, put a flexible airline tube into the siphon at
the very top of the curve, then suck the air out of the siphon tube and remove
the air line. Siphon should start working. Also try and contact the
manufacturer for help. James (Salty Dog)>
Overflow Box 7/25/05
Thank you for the help I don't know why they don't send directions thanks
again.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Bobbie Jo
Overflow murders
Perhaps you can help me out. I have a 125 Gallon salt water tank and just
upgraded to an Amiracle sump filter but the overflow is sucking my smaller fish
along with shrimp etc. Is there any method to prevent this? I've been to a
couple of per shop in the local Jersey area but they don't offer any good
suggestions. What can I do. Thanks very much.... Peter
<if the overflow is an internal skimmer box then simply fill it with
submerged bioballs. This will not impede water flow but will prevent air bubbles
and fish from making it through. Kindly, Anthony>
U-tube overflow modification
Hello, I use an overflow box with a u-tube. Every week it seems that I must re-siphon the u-tube, otherwise air enters the tube and tends to decrease water movement to the sump and increase the water inside the overflow box, causing less flow and less water movement. Is there any fix to prevent this? Thanks, Rob
<the best solution is to not use an overflow at all... they hold you hostage in fear of the inevitable overflow from a siphon break... even the best designed ones can fail. Do have the tank drilled for a gravity overflow when you can. In the meantime, there are many DIY solutions on the net to
help with this... simply do a keyword search with the pertinent terms. Also look on the DIY link at www.ozreef.org... I think a saw plans there for a better mousetrap. Essentially, what you need to do is
drill a small hole at the top of the tube, glue a rigid airline stem in place and hook it up with the
Venturi of a nearby powerhead. This Venturi will constantly siphon air bubbles that collect (with water) and prevent the siphon from breaking. Best regards, Anthony>
Rob Cook
My crazy clowns (and overflow boxes)
Mr. Fenner,
I just wanted to give you an update about my 2 true clowns. I wrote to you about a week ago asking for advice about my clowns fighting their reflection in the glass. I am happy to say that they have given up this behavior and have adopted my Green Frogspawn. :)
<Ah, good>
I have a question if you have the time to look over the attachment I've sent. I have a Del-Ray sump that came with an over flow. It is the box kind that is attached with suction cups and uses a J tube to go down to the sump. I am having problems with it staying attached (the box inside of the tank that is.)
<Yes... a poor design>
My LFS does not sell these sumps anymore and does not know where I could find out the information about the suction cups used. On a totally different subject I want to purchase another overflow (so I can have one for each
corner) and now I cannot find the manufacture (looked on the net and could not find
it. I am not a surfer.) Could you please take a look at the picture I have attached and tell me if you know this sort of
overflow. and where I might be able to find on like it?
<See it... and not made by any extant company as far as I'm aware. Do look at the CPR units... Link on
WetWebMedia.com>
Also I thought that since I am moving and I will have to take my tank apart, could I use aquarium sealant and glue the box to the wall of the aquarium?
<Absolutely... this is what I would do if satisfied with the unit... if not cut, drill the tank otherwise...>
I don't ever intend to have them removed, so this seemed like a good idea. What do you think? I haven't found anyone who has done it so I am weary.
Have a great afternoon and thank you for your time.
((sorry for the first picture being so blurry))
<No worries... have many more that are much blurrier. Bob Fenner>
Re: My crazy clowns (and overflow boxes)
Hello again Mr. Fenner,
Sorry to give you two emails in one day but I did want to thank you (yet again) for you help.
About the overflows, I would like to ask another question. I have heard very bad experiences with the CPR overflows, losing there siphon and other scary things.
<Mmm, actually, these makes/models are about as trouble-free as available, and reliable IMO>
I have not had a problem with the one I am using now. I would keep using it because I thought drilling a glass aquarium when it has already been assembled is a disaster waiting to happen.
<Can be... I wouldn't do it yourself... check around with the glas |