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Fluke Problem
Hello crew,
<Hi Richard>
I have two tanks in which a flukes (capsalid monogenean) were
introduced. The specific type is benedenia sp. I have found FW dips
or Clout to be very effective on these, however, since these 2 tanks are display
aquariums I would rather not treat them with clout.
<that is understandable>
Do you know how long an aquarium would need to remain fallow to prevent
reinfestation once fish are reintroduced?
Thank you, Richard
<Without a host fish most flukes and other parasites will die off completely
within 4 weeks. So in theory if given 4 weeks, though preferably 6
weeks then all of the parasites should have run their life
cycle. Magnus >
Ich
Hello there. <Greetings. Steve Allen here> Nice informative
sight. Enjoy doing some light reading every day here. <Me too>
If you would indulge me with a few answers to my questions I would appreciate
it. <sure>
Setup as follow-
110 FOWLR setup.
Running for a month
75 lbs. live rock
2 percula clowns
3 green Chromis
1 scooter blenny
3 hermit crabs
<That's a lot of life for only a month into things. Patience is a richly
rewarded virtue in this hobby>
After introducing the clowns to this fairly new setup and thing going fine for a
week I notice some white spots/bumps on the clowns (wasn't aware of the possible
ich problems with these fish, would of considered not choosing these kind of
fish if I had know, damn Nemo Movie) too late now. <most fish are
susceptible to ich.> I don't have nor can set up a Quarantine tank so any
suggestions for treating these things in the main tank? <There is no such
thing. If it's safe for inverts & your biofilter, it doesn't kill ich; if it
kills ich, it kills inverts & biofilter. Why can't you set up a QT? All you
need is a Rubbermaid container, a heater and a sponge filter. You will be
sorrier than you already are if you do not QT all new fish for a month.>
The fish are swimming, eating, breathing fine. So no visible signs of
stress and the Chromis have no signs of anything at all. This has
been going on for about a week or so now. I guess I dropped the ball
on treating this sooner than later but the holidays have screwed up my
schedule. I don't want to add any more fish until I am sure this wont
spread or become uncontrollable. <Read the tales of woe on WWM. Best bet is
to remove all the fish from your tank to QT and treat there while leaving the
tank fishless for 6 weeks. Another alternative that may kill the free-floating
ich is UV sterilization. A couple of cleaner shrimp might help too. If you try
this I'd say no new fish until your current ones are ich-free for a couple of
months.> Also I have read some about doing a dip before adding new fish but
am unsure of the correct procedure and chemicals to use for this process.
<You have a lot of reading to do. You're up against a tenacious and
frustrating foe. Here are some links to get you started. Read the linked FAQs,
too.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
Thank you for your time and advise. Have a great holiday.
Andy <you too, good
luck>
Parasite Problem?
Howdy,
First off--class act of a web site. You are all doing the hobby a
tremendous favor.
<Thanks for the kind words! And don't forget that everyone who writes in to
WWM is helping his or her fellow hobbyists by sharing experiences! That's what
WWM is all about! Scott F. with you today!>
My firefish's skin seems to have a problem, or does it? I have two
firefish (magnifica), and they are continually developing small bumps (1 mm
wide, 2mm long). Start off light and look to be under skin, then over
a 4-7 day period become dark and disappear (presumably fall off). I
didn't not Q them, since didn't know how they would treat each other; didn't FW
bath them either.
<I know that you'll embrace quarantine in the future, right?>
They do scratch against the DSB once in a while. Read the marine
disease section and couldn't find anything on this. My two clowns and
my two clown gobies don't exhibit any similar symptoms. NH3/4+
<Whooaa! Is that correct? Ammonia should be undetectable...Do recheck!>
NO3, and NO4 are all zero, 1.025, KH = 7.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards, Jeb, Albuquerque, NM
<Well, Jeb, it sounds to me like you're looking at some sort of parasite
here. Hard to be sure if these are worms or crustaceans, or simple
protozoans...I'd consider removing the fishes to a separate "hospital"
tank (you can put in a divider if you're concerned about aggression), and
starting some freshwater dips. You could run the tank at an increased
temperature to help speed up the life cycle of the parasites. I'd use a copper
sulphate medication per manufacturer's instructions, or dips in water
with Formalin...It sounds like this is not ich, but rather a
trematode or other, larger parasite. I'd embrace one of the treatment ideas
presented here, and see how the fishes react...Good luck! Regards, Scott F>
Counterattack Against Parasites!
Dear piscatorial crew:
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today!>
A few questions about the above medication:
1) Does it hamper the performance of a skimmer like AquaC?
<Well, not hamper- but it may cause "collateral damage" to
beneficial fauna in the display tank...Don't do it!>
2) How long does this take to "fallout" of saltwater? I ask this
because it stains the tank and also clouds the water for at least 3 days.
<Not sure what the "half life" is of this stuff, but it can bind
with substrate and rocks and leach gradually...It may even be rendered
ineffective in this manner. Best administered in a separate treatment tank with
no rocks of substrate>
3) Will Poly Bio Marine Filter remove this?
<Poly Filter will help, yes>
4) Will this kill/stop the larval cycle of tomites?
<It will certainly help...>
5) Anthony Calfo suggests siphoning the bottom of the tank for 8 consecutive
days to eradicate the tomites in it's larval stage. I have a 2" aragonite
sand bed. Do I have to siphon that to or just hover slightly above it?
<The technique that Anthony refers to needs to be executed in a bare bottomed
tank. It is very successful, but it cannot be reliably performed in a display
tank>
On a different note:
6) Ick is ubiquitous in any marine setup. It seem to target fish that are
vulnerable e.g. (surgeons, newly introduced fish, stressed fish). In your
experience, is this true?
<I would agree, to a certain extent. It seems like it's always there- ready
to strike when conditions allow. The most successful treatment strategies, IMO-
target the life cycle of the "parasites", depriving them of hosts and
disrupting their life cycle>
I've noticed this for most of my fish and seen them live through it without any
medication. When I introduce a new fish, it will have ich for a while and
hopefully, it will fight it through once it acclimates to it's new environment.
I've had a Zebrasoma F., Rhinecanthus A and Sphaeramia N. that lived through a
minor ich infestation [although my Parupeneus barberinoides succumbed] with
proper feeding and impeccable water quality. I've also noticed that hawks and
damsels are especially resistant to these ciliates.
<Good observation- and accurate!>
Please advice and thanks in advance.
Best,
BC
<My advice- dose with caution- but not in the main tank! Regards, Scott F>
Large Fish in Small Aquarium
I have a 75 gallon tank with two porcupine puffers, two lions and one dog
face puffer.
<first of all way too many fish for this small aquarium>
I have been keeping copper in the tank to treat and prevent ich......at least
one month...... today both porcupine puffers developed cloudy eyes... worsening
as the day went on... I did a water change, about 1/3 of tank....removed all
copper....now reads "0". pH at 8.2.... ammonia at
0.25... nitrites .25 and nitrates 0...
<the ammonia and nitrites are the
problem here only water changes will save your livestock now...if I were you I
would bring your fish to a trust worthy aquarium store and have them hold your 5
fish until you get your aquarium under control, then I recommend keeping one
lionfish, one porcupine puffer and the dogface... in at least a 125 gallon
aquarium>
we love makayla and molly and don't know what to do next..... when
doing a freshwater dip, please explain exactly how to do that... tap water with
chems. removed then what????
<do not do the FW dip...cloudy eyes are a sign of a bacterial
infection and if they are placed in an adequate aquarium with good water quality
they this should go away..>
....should I try this?? will
they loose their sight and if so how will they eat? ....the one did not eat today
the other did.... please respond ASAP... how often is it safe to do water
changes????
<in your case once a day and I would get those fish out of that
aquarium post haste>
dog face and lions are showing no signs at this time...
thanks... Carolyn
<Good luck, IanB>
Perilous Pomacanthus Angel - 8/17/03
Good afternoon, Mr. Fenner, hope all is well with you.
<Anthony Calfo in his stead, with regards in kind>
I have a bit of an issue with a 7 1/2" Emperor angel. He/she has been doing
very well in an established seven foot 200g predator tank for some time.
<grumble>
A bit frisky, as the fish immediately dominated the tank upon arrival. Tank
mates are a 12" Panther grouper, and a 10" gold stripe puffer.
<grumble grumble>
Yes sir, I do realize that I am pushing tank capacity.
<that's one way to put it... 2.5 feet of fishes in a 2' wide aquarium. Doh!
The reduced activity of the grouper and puffer (perhaps) works in your favor.
Still... it would be nice to see more tank or less fish>
However, I noticed today that the right gill plate has ceased to
move.
<a conspicuous sign of gill parasites, indeed>
Subsequently, the left gill plate is functioning at twice the normal rate. There
have been no new arrivals, and no previous disease issues.
<understood... but the fishes did not arrive sterile (as in pathogen free).
They, like us, carry potentially pathogenic organisms that are suppressed for
life, only to be expressed under weakened immunity or duress (like giving up
hope for a larger aquarium <G>. Sorry... couldn't resist)>
Water quality is spot-on, appetite is voracious, and color is vivid. I am
inclined to think the fish is very healthy, no HLLE and nice streamers for the
species.
<all very good to hear>
No one else displaying any erratic behavior, other than darting for cover when
the angel cruises the length of the aquarium! The only change
made was a large water change four days ago with aged water from the
same source, of the same salinity, pH, and temp. Water change was approximately
40g, as I needed aged water for a 37g quarantine tank that I just set up.
<No worries... and not a large water change either. Good heavens, for a tank
of predatory fishes of this size, I should hope that you have been doing 20%
water changes like this twice monthly. If not, the accumulated untestables over
time are surely a burden on water quality and a stress to the fish. The angel
(unsurprisingly) may just be the first one to express suffrage>
I first suspected gill flukes, but is that possible since there are
no new arrivals, and the water change was with r/o
home-brew?
<correct my friend... simply carried in small numbers and never expressed.
Good immunity>
I have seen unexplainable phenomena occur while employed at John Tullock's now
defunct Aquatic Specialists, but this is a new one for me. I must say that I
feel as though I can trust your opinion, as I have learned more from reading
three pages of your writing than I could have learned in three years of actual
study. Any help you could offer would be greatly appreciated, not only by
myself, but the specimen in question, too. Devoted, yet stumped, Samantha
Madison
<no worries, my dear. But do be prepared with a bare-bottomed QT tank and
some formalin. Easy on the copper and/or malachite (any metals or organic dyes)
in fact as you likely know - angels can be sensitive. FW dips and formalin are
your likely cure in QT. Go for the the full 4 weeks isolation. Bare minimum
would be two weeks after the last expression of a symptom. Medication in the
display is not recommended or likely to be successful. Best of luck. Anthony>
Tangs and Ich
This is my tank
-90 bow front FOWLR (145lbs)
-15 gallon sump
-650 gph flow through sump
-4 maxi-jet 1200
-1/2 inches "Florida crushed coral substrate"
-Aqua C 180 EV skimmer with mag drive 5 pump
-2-65 watt 10 K full spectrum PC 12 hrs per day
-2-65 watt 03 actinic blue 14 hrs per day
-2-300 watt heaters
-2 bags of carbon (app 1 cup each) replaced alternately once per month
-ammonia - 0
-nitrite - 0
-nitrate - below measurable limits
-temp - 79-80
-calcium - 310 ppm <May want to raise this a bit>
-s.g. - 1.025
-pH - 8.22 - 8.35 (buffered occasionally with Seachem Reef buffer)
-RO water for everything
-mag - 1250 ppm
-Total Alkilinity - 4.5 meq/l
Inhabitants
-4 true tank raised clowns about one and a half inches long (bought together,
unsexed, very healthy, lively, playful, hungry- I think I know which one will
eventually be the female)
-1 regal tang
-3 small feather dusters which are growing about 1/4 inch per week (got free
with LR)
-1 (has recently split into 8) mushroom which gets really big during the day
(also got free with LR)
<Sounds great so far>
Questions:
I have a 4 inch regal tang that I have had for 7 months now. Since I
got him there have been no additions or changes to the tank, except the cleaner
shrimp. He seems to be getting ich. 2 days ago he had 7 or
8 white spots on his body. Today he has 25 or 30. I
finally caught him, a very diificult task considering all the LR in the tank,
and gave him a ph adjusted fresh water bath. I also just recently got
a cleaner shrimp. I don't know if he is cleaning him or not (I have
never seen any interaction between the two) He is eating fine. (Red,
green, and purple dries algae, mysis shrimp, blood worms, and many other vitamin
enhanced dry and flake foods.) Should I just keep an eye on him and
quarantine with copper if he gets worse, hoping that the cleaner shrimp may
help? Or should I go through the greulling procedure of catching him
again to put in quarantine right away? Also, with no additions to the tank for 7
months, where would the ich come from. How could it have been
introduced into the system? Thanks for all your help.
<You'll need to QT him with copper, give him freshwater dips. A
cleaner shrimp won't fix an ich outbreak. The longer he's in the
tank, the longer the parasite has to locate new hosts (your clowns) and spread
like a plague. Get that Tang out, and quickly. Be prepared
to QT the clowns as well, and run your tank fallow for 4+weeks. You
may get lucky and only need to treat the Tang this time. Best of
luck! Ryan>
As The Worm Turns? (Fighting Intestinal Worms)
Hi Crew,
<Hi there! Scott F. your Crew Member today!>
I DID IT - I finally caught my sick Naso (180 gal, lots of LR)!!! Now
that I finally have this sick fish in a QT, the information I need is how to
treat him/her. From reading MANY posts on your website, my assessment
(best guess) is that my Naso Tang has intestinal worms. I have not
seen any worms but this fish has not eaten in 5-6 days and I can nearly see
through it because it is so emaciated. I do not notice a swollen area
near the posterior of the fish, similar to those that had a blockage.
<Sounds like it may be just that, but usually, you can't tell 100% unless you
dissect the animal... I guess you'll have to go with your best guess here. >
I noted that some of the people who discovered this issue with their Naso in
time took the fish to a vet who administered an oral de-wormer. I do
not know of any vet in my area that treats fish. Is there anything I
can use to treat my Naso for worms? I currently have Cu in the QT
(3.0 PPM) and I am using Melafix because I have read several positive results
from using this "natural" medication and no negative results.
<I am skeptical about it...It's supposedly for external problems, too, by the
way...I'd remove the copper, is it may be causing more harm than good to the
fish, by damaging it's digestive fauna...Not a good thing when a fish is
possibly starving. Although it is reported by some people to be successful at
treating worms, I'd use Poly Filter or Cupri Sorb to remove the copper, and keep
up a lot of regular small water changes. As far as a medication for intestinal
worms, I'd steer towards a medication like Praziquantel, or possibly a Formalin
based medication.>
As I mentioned previously, I did previously notice a single
"attachment" to the throat area of this fish that dropped off the day
after I noticed it. I assumed this was some sort of parasite but no
others have returned in the approximate 5 days since this "attachment"
fell off. I thought the Melafix would also be good to prevent a
secondary infection at the site of this parasite attachment.
<Ahh... didn't see your first post. Now I understand your rationale for using
Melafix...Good thought>
Assuming I am able to cure my Naso of these (assumed) worms in time, would these
worms not still be present in my main tank? If so, how do I prevent a
re-occurrence?
<Unlikely. Usually, these worms come in with the fish from the wild, so it's
hard for me to imagine that they are present in the tank in any numbers that
could be a problem. On the other hand, the external parasite that you noted
could have reproduced, and could be a potential problem. Observe carefully, and
let the tank go fallow if this turns out to be a problem. Parasites don't fare
well without hosts! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>
________________________________________
My information contribution:
Hopefully this will help some other person who is finding it impossible to catch
fish in a large tank with many rocks. This is how I finally caught my
Naso:
Since I have several other Tangs (ich magnets) in my tank, I was very worried
about stressing all the fish in the tank and causing an ich
outbreak. To minimize stress (the fishes' and mine), I waited until
night and turned off the aquarium lights (leaving only a flashlight pointing at
the bottom of the opposite end of the tank from where my fish
sleep). Once all fish has settled into their normal sleeping
positions, I slowly removed all live rock that was not directly providing
immediate shelter for a sleeping fish (moving the rock to the opposite end of
the tank without exposing it to air). I then used whatever I could
find (feeding tongs, plastic cup, etc.) to plug any holes/cracks between rocks
that were large enough for this fish to fit through. Although not
necessary, I have a Sony camcorder with infrared night vision, which I used to
locate the Naso without disturbing the other fish (just a tip in case you happen
to have a similar camera). I placed one (larger) net at the single
opening I had left between the rock and glass on one side of the
aquarium. I then (very gently) moved the other (smaller, more
maneuverable) net near the fish from the opposite side of the
tank. To me it seemed that this was just an annoyance to the fish
rather than causing fright. Once the fish got close enough to the
large net to realize what was happening and to begin zig-zagging, looking for
another quick getaway, I turned the flashlight directly on the fish causing it
to become temporarily disoriented. I then quickly scooped it up with
the large net and let it swim into a container in the aquarium, filled with
aquarium water. Leaving the lights out the entire time (other than
the small flashlight), I poured the fish into the QT.
Maybe this sounds a little extreme (overly-cautious) but I have heard horror
stories of ich outbreaks with tangs that led to loss of all the
fish. I do not want that guilt (or loss of $$)! Like I
said, hopefully this will help someone else because I struggled with several
attempts before finally finding a way to catch the fish. I nearly
just left it in the tank to "wait and see" - probably a certain death
from what I have read.
____________________________________________
Please advise how I can treat for worms and THANK YOU so much for all the help
you are providing with this forum.
Greg
- Parasite-free? -
Dear WWM Crew,
<Hello, JasonC here...>
I have been keeping saltwater fish for six years, at one point I had four large
tanks. I am now down to 2 and of course my quarantine
tank. I have NEVER had a problem with my 80 gallon, no parasite, no
disease. <Quite the accomplishment.> Primarily because, three years ago I
had to learn the hard way, thanks to Marine Velvet and the loss of all of my
livestock, the value of quarantining. I am now a "CMA" and
I do everything "by the book"!!
Unfortunately, I have found that even doing everything "by the book",
does not guarantee a perfectly healthy tank. <Nope.> I set up a 240, with
250 lbs. of premium cured Fiji LR, and a protein skimmer, also has two wet dry
filters, and a UV sterilizer. I left the tank without fish for six
weeks. I quarantined the fish going into the 240 for 21 days in
hyposalinity, and for 14 days after that with normal SG before they went into
my display tank. Currently, the 240
houses a stunning 9" Harlequin Tusk (Tigger) and an 11"
Golden Puffer (Squirt). <Love those tuskfish!> I believe that
somewhere amongst my LR there were some dormant ich cysts, because both of my
fish show ich spots on their pectoral fins from time to time. <Just on the
fins? I wouldn't be too concerned about this unless things spread.> I have a
12" Koran Angel (Monty) in quarantine right now, and am nervous about
adding him to my 240, for obvious reasons. <Is probably ok. Have observed
these spots before, and from a practical standpoint, it is very hard to almost
impossible to have a system be 100% ich-free. Instead you need to make sure the
fish are in premium health and free from stress.> I know that you say with
proper diet and attention to water quality, and careful husbandry, (yes, I read
WWM everyday) that my wonderful fish "should" be fine.
<Indeed.> It's the "should" part that gets me. I did not do all
of this hard work to see my beauties living in a state of checks and balances
with the ich. <The sky hasn't fallen yet.>
I have been to several wonderful public aquariums, Steinhart, Monterey Bay,
Shark Reef, Waikiki Aquarium, and I saw superbly healthy happy
fish. I would like to have the utmost healthy happy fish, and I would
like to be able to say "Yes, I have had Squirt for 10 years". <And
you probably will... I wouldn't lose any sleep over a couple of spots on the
pectoral fins.>
I would really value your opinion and guidance on how to achieve my goal. Will
my fish and I be happy living in check with the ich, or should I quarantine
Tigger and Squirt again, and leave my tank without a fish host, at a lower SG (
exactly how low can the SG go with the LR ) and a higher temp for another six
weeks? <I would proceed forward.> If I carry out the fallow method with
environment manipulation, in your opinion, will this make my tank sterile from
parasites? <Impossible, really... do check to make sure the flow rate on your
UV is slow enough to kill things that flow through it... many times the flow
rate is too fast to kill parasites.>
Cannot say " Thank You" enough for your time and guidance. By the way, I
received the new Reef Invertebrate book last week, and it was definitely worth
the wait!! WOW!! Doesn't miss a thing. Thank
You, Jen, who just wants healthy fish, Marshall
<Cheers, J -- >
Fighting Ich The Easy Way?
Is there a way to remove ich from my tank without taking out everything? This
would be difficult for me? Thanks.
<Well, there are ways to "manage" ich (i.e.; biological cleaners,
freshwater dips, hyposalinity in FO tanks, etc.) which have been well-covered on
the WWM site, but in my opinion, the only way to really "remove" ich
from a display tank is to let it run fallow. In a fish-only system, I suppose
you could medicate the tank (gulp!), but the long-term effects are just not
worth the trade-off, IMO. If it were me, I'd roll up my sleeves, curse, scream,
break down the decor, and net all of the fish out to treat 'em in a hospital
tank (you could curse and scream BEFORE you net out the fish, if that helps!).
It sucks, but it works! There really is no "easy" way to do this. The
key is to keep ich and other potential diseases out of the tank in the first
place by regularly quarantining all new arrivals for 3-4 weeks. Good luck!
Regards, Scott F>
Just Like Starting Over...(Ich Recovery)
Thanks Scott for replying back.
<Hey, no problem...That's why we're here>
I have read the articles that you wrote right after they were posted on the
website. They were very helpful and
sometimes easier to understand than Bob's. No offense Bob, loved CMA,
use it all the time for reference/refresher.
<Thanks for the "props", but I know for a fact that Bob has
probably forgotten more on fish than I will ever know!>
Scott, you've also helped me with questions re: my algae problem in the past. Because
of you and WetWebMedia, I've been using RO water, changing my filter
cartridge in my Ocean Clear filter weekly to bi-weekly, and slowed way down on
the food.
<Glad to hear that!>
I just never thought that the rock that supposedly was good for saltwater would
cause so many problems. It's just been a nightmare.
<Unfortunately, this stuff seems to have that effect for a lot of people...I
avoid it like the plague!>
Anyway, I think I'll go ahead and buy the live rock from Drs. Foster &
Smith.
<Good choice>
I've had good luck with their products and their prices aren't bad.
<And the service isn't too shabby, either!>
One more question about the live rock. I've read so much about deep
sand beds on your website. I'm not really sure that I want to, or can
afford to change the substrate. I currently have about 120 pounds of
crushed coral with 20 pounds of live sand mixed in. Is there going to
be any conflicts with live rock and my current substrate? If I keep
the substrate, do you think I should bleach it to kill any Ich attached to it. That
will be a fun job
:( Thanks again for your help.
<I don't think that the substrate you have would be too much of a problem,
save the potential detritus accumulation that the larger-grained crushed coral
would potentially cause. However, the presence of ich in the tank is a huge
potential concern for me. Ich parasites can enter a "resting" phase
and remain in the substrate for some time, laying in wait until conditions are
right for another round. I have to agree that I would either dump the substrate
(an expensive proposition) or go ahead and "nuke" it, as you outlined
(not too fun, either). I think that the long-term positives of "dumping or
nuking" the substrate will outweigh the short-term inconvenience or misery!
It will be, in effect- just like starting over (didn't John Lennon sing
that?)...Hang in there! Regards, Scott F>
Sick Emperor Angel
>Hello Mr. Fenner,
>>Good morning, Marina to help you today.
>I have a quick question that no one can seem to answer efficiently. I have
an Emperor Angel fish that I have had for about 9 months now, and it just got
sick about 1 month ago. The symptoms were: Pale body, fins were deteriorating,
wasn't eating too much, breathing rapidly and darting/twitching. I took it out
of the main tank, put it into a quarantine tank and treated it with copper for
about 3 1/2 weeks. I tested the copper at 1.5, which remained consistent
throughout the 3 1/2 weeks. Which brings me to today. I have been watching the
fish a lot and it eats tons of food now, the body looks really nice, but the
only thing that looks fishy (no pun intended) is that it still breaths rapidly
(and seems to cough) like there is something bothering its gills, and
darting/twitching. I have looked closely on its body and don't see any signs of
parasites, however there are some small discolorations on the skin that are a
little bit bigger than the size of freckles (there are about a handful on both
sides of the fish) It is just discoloration (grayish color), it is not bulging,
not fungus looking, not red around it, nor lesions on the body....it just seems
like something is eating away at the skin with the way the fish is
twitching/darting. Do you know what it might have? I was thinking that it might
be gill flukes or something but I don't know.
>>I'm thinking trematodes or something similar, and if I recollect
correctly they're not at ALL affected by copper treatments. You'll
have to use Formalin, and I'll link you to a med guide and hopefully will find
other links for you as well.
>I am confused on what to do now, because coppersafe kills mostly everything,
but the fish still seems to be in discomfort....What medicine, if any, would be
effective for the symptoms that I listed? I appreciate your help. All in all,
the fish is really healthy, it isn't sluggish or weak, it is rather aggressive
and loves to eat!
>>Be sure to keep him fed and fat, in the meantime...
http://www.petswarehouse.com/Fishmed2.htm
http://www.petswarehouse.com/Fishmed3.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/disease.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/martrtmtfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/med.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimfa.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/treatmen.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/copperprodfaqs.htm
>>There is SO much to find via Google through the site that I'm leaving it
at this for now. There is much information on utilizing Formalin for
certain parasitic infections, and you'll soon learn that copper isn't the
panacea that some believe it is when dealing with them. Best of luck! Marina
Argulus (marine)
Dear WWM Crew,
<Howdy>
I have a 225g salt water aquarium which houses a Niger Trigger, Naso Tang
and a Zebra eel. The tank is fish only and has a wet/dry filter.
My question is regarding Argulus. I believe I have this due to the actions
of the Niger Trigger.
It noticeably rubs onto rocks and flinches a lot.
Yesterday I noticed 3 small oval shaped "lice" looking parasites
moving
about it's tail and fins. Yes, they are moving around. They are about
0.075"
in diameter. It's fins have frayed a little bit but it's color still looks
great. The other fish, as well as the Trigger, are still eating VERY
hardily. Does this sound like a good diagnosis?
<It may be that your fish does have this branchiuran parasite genus... Do you
have access to a microscope?>
I want to treat the tank with "CLOUT" but am nervous about putting
medication in my tank. I am also concerned with only treating the Trigger
because I have read that Argulus lays eggs in the rocks, so dipping the fish
is only a temporary fix. Is this true?
<Yes>
Will CLOUT have any effect on the
eel, since it doesn't have scales? How about the wet/dry filter, will there
be any damage?
<A bit of a risk, but about the best choice for you here... that or
"Marine Med Aqua" or other organophosphate containing medications>
If CLOUT isn't a good solution, do you have any recommendations?
Thank you very much,
Lon
<I would try treating the trigger in a separate system (hospital tank), by
itself if it is the only infested fish of the three... there is a chance that
whatever this parasite is (likely some sort of crustacean) that it is so species
specific in its use of hosts that it will die off in your main system in a month
or so of leaving the trigger out. There is much to relate to you re your present
knowledge of quarantine, treatments... Please read through the areas you feel
you're weak in on WetWebMedia.com on the Marine Index (Maintenance) and the
"Related FAQs" therein. Bob Fenner>
Sick porcupine puffer
Hello. I need some input please. I have a 55 gal tank that I have had set-up
for almost two years now with no problems. The water quality is fine and all my
levels are normal. A friend of mine recently moved and I inherited 3 of his
fish: a 2 damsels and a yellow Tang. The problem is that my porcupine puffer is
sick now and I am not sure what it may be. She just sits at the bottom of the
tank and doesn't respond like normal. It looks like her skin is getting eaten
away and the skin is brownish in color. She is also breathing heavily. She also
seems a bit swollen. Do you have any ideas as to what this may be?
<Sounds like a parasitic infection, or perhaps a Costia infection. I would
give this fish a formalin dip. The usual dosage is 2ml-4ml per 10 litres (about
2.5 gallons) for 30 minutes; I would use no more than 2ml per 2.5 gallons in a
separate tank. You will need to watch the puffer very closely and remove it if
it appears to lose its equilibrium.>
Possibly from the introduction of these new fish?
<Yes. Especially if you did not quarantine the new fish.>
We never had any problems until adding them into the tank. Also the Tang is
starting to develop white spots (possibly ich).
<Start with a freshwater dip with methylene blue. Adjust the pH to the same
level as your tank. Much has been written about ich protocol; do check the
articles and FAQs linked here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm>
Any suggestions as to a remedy for my puffer and Tang.
<as above>
I am tempted to get rid of the fish my friend gave me but I'd rather find some
type of middle ground.
<It depends on what other fish you might have in the tank.>
I have read over the FAQ in the puffer section but didn't see anything that may
apply. Please help.
<Aside from the above suggestions, do invest in a quarantine tank and use it
religiously.>
Thanks for any input,
Cameron
<You're welcome. --Ananda>
Clown trigger brings ich to FOWLR tank - 2/13/03
I have a 220 g FOWLR set-up, recently purchased a clown trigger to go with
my tomato clown, purple tang, damsel, cleaner shrimp and juvenile emperor
angel.
<Goodness. You do have a bunch of bruisers in there. Hopefully the clown
trigger will leave the cleaner shrimp alone.>
Before putting the trigger in the tank everything was great. Two days
after I put the new trigger it got ich, very tiny not the larger spots (went
back to the store where I purchased and noticed their whole tank had got it as
well).
<Sounds like the fish you got was sick before you got him. This is reason #1
to always quarantine new fish.>
I immediately took it out, gave it a 3 minute freshwater bath <Possibly not
quite long enough. Do try for five minutes, minimum.> and put it into a
quarantine tank with copper (33 gallon).
<Test those copper levels twice a day.>
It has been about 2 days now and none of the other fish seem to have come down
with it, is there a hope they won't??
<Yes, if they are extremely healthy.>
I know the parasite is probably in the tank even though I did get the trigger
out quickly.
<Yup.>
Are the fish able to fight something like this off on their own if I was to just
put the trigger back into the main system and forego the treatment <That's a
recipe for disaster.> or is there a risk I endanger the other occupants as
well??.
<Definitely.>
If my other fish end up getting this in the next few days, does everyone need to
go to the quarantine tank??
<Yes (the shrimp can stay put). Do make sure you have a hospital tank
sufficiently large to hold these fish, or use multiple hospital tanks. You will
need to let the main tank go fallow for several weeks. More info on ich protocol
in the articles and FAQs linked here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm>
thanks
Joe
<You're welcome. --Ananda>
Fish keep dying follow-up - 2/13/03
Thanks for getting back to me on this.
<You're welcome.>
My tank is a 125 gallon with plans to upgrade in a few years. The
clown i wrote originally has disappeared like the others. Shortly
after I wrote the original email, my puffer started hiding and not
eating. I figured he had plans to join the others in the great reef
in the sky. We were going on vacation and I couldn't get anyone to
take him for us while we were gone.
<Do see if there is any sort of fish club in your area -- perhaps you can
find other individuals with similar interests who could care for your fish
during future vacations.>
When we got home, he is still with us and eating like usual.
<Yay!!>
I want to treat the fish and have put money aside to get a larger
QT. My question is: is this like ich where I'll have to QT the fish
for a month or longer? Will the medicine be harmful to the clowns
like copper? How do I kill the parasite in the main
tank? Please get back to me, I'm going to go buy the QT and the
anti-parasitic medicine today.
<I'm glad you're getting the bigger QT. My ocellaris clownfish had this, so I
know that the metronidazole won't hurt clownfish. The base treatment takes about
a week; hopefully in that time the parasite will die off in the main tank.
--Ananda>
- A little too hypo-saline -
hello bob <Actually, it's JasonC today...>
first I would like to say I enjoyed your book it has been very informative an
helpful but I have some problems
let tell you my about my systems
I have 3 tanks
a 125 gal with
tide pool II 20 gal sump
Berlin turbo skimmer
2 aqua clear 402 power heads
2 submersible 200 watt heaters in the sump
a custom made coil denigrator that is gravity fed into the sump
4 72 inch vho bulbs 2 actinic 2 super actinic white with ice cap ballasts
180lbs live rock with beautiful, purple, pink, red, burgundy coralline algae
80lbs live sand
2 condy anenomies
some caulopera
30-40 hermit crabs
40- 50 turbo, astraea, nassarius, margarita snails
1 sand sifting sea cucumber
1 horse shoe crab
1 sallys light foot crab
1 decorator crab =)
1 coral banded shrimp
2 peppermint shrimp
4 feather dusters
2 large mushroom corals
and assorted red and green hair algae
1 4 " neon wrasse
2 firefish
1 neon goby
2 bar gobys
2 blue devils
1 hawkfish
1 scooter blennys
1 mandarin fish
1 cherub angelfish
1 longnose butterfly 5-6 "
2nd tank 44gal corner
40lb of crushed coral
with undergravel filter with powersweep power head
millennium hangon filter
seaclone hangon skimmer
20inch 50/50 reefsun fluorescent lamp
20lbs of liverock multi colored
1 coral banded shrimp
1 2" yellow damsel
1 2 foot snowflake moray eel
1 4" yellow tang
3rd tank 10 gal quarantine
hang on filter
standard fluorescent
heater
with air pump for aeration
with clear divider for unfriendly fish
treated with coppersafe, and maracyn 2 currently lowerring spg to 1.11 <That
is too low, my friend - anything below 1.015 will cause serious stress.>
I have been having a serious problem with ick/velvet
my 3 " Koran angel
my 2" yellow tang
my 4" maroon clown
my 3" sailfin tang
my 2" hippo tang
and several damsels all lost
I recently moved my 4" yellow tang to the 125 with in one week showed ick I
removed to 10 gal for treatment but one day before signs of ick I had just put
butterfly fish in 125 from 10 gal 3 day afterwards butterfly has ick or velvet
and tonight while I was typing this letter the butterfly is on his side side
fins pointing forward breathing rapidly I don't think he is going to make it I
removed it before it got this bad to the 10 gal with a divider to keep them
apart no other fish in 125 show any signs of disease and I am worried because my
10 gal is not large enough to hold all these fish for treatment and even when
treated <With what?> I cant seem to save them but they are fine for now
I have yet to have a fish survive ick and it seems if the fish
is expensive the fish or large it is doomed when it comes to my
system please help me with any advice thank you for your time <Well.. you're
not revealing much about what you're doing to treat the ich in quarantine - it's
great that you've got a tank set up for this, but without much more information
than the low specific gravity of the water, there's not much I can comment on.
This much I can tell you - 1.011 is too low, and this alone will kill any
saltwater fish that stays in that water too long. Hyposalinity should be part of
a regimen of treatment and not expected to kill parasites all on its own. Please
read the following articles for some background:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm
>
Joe Davis
<Cheers, J -- >
Illness Recovery - 2/10/03
I agree with the thoughts of life being precious believe me I am wanting to
save them.
<good to hear>
I set up a tank. Just a 10 gallon I had sitting around so this will be an option
soon. I have a second filter in my tank just a little multipurpose one with a
swivel head. It is only rated for like a 10 gallon tank. I had it to move the
surface of the water. It has attachments that I could swap. Should I use this to
power the UV instead?
<heed the mfg recommendations for needed/slow flow. Perhaps>
It would be a very easy swap. Then I could just hook the Eheim back up to the
spray bar and run that for surface agitation.
<UVs do need filtered water (carbon and floss)>
I think I will get the stuff for this tomorrow. As for the light the light is a
2x35 PC and I have a second one coming that
is 65x2. It is in the mail. This should be sufficient correct?
<Great on shallow water>
Both are one blue one white. I also got the mysis shrimp today so I will feed
the anemone that next. Do you think I have a chance at saving it still?
<They can be remarkably regenerative>
It sat there for 2 days and I had to hand feed it but it ate. It then moved to
the front corner of the tank and has been the since. With its foot anchored
strong. It has never closed up and looks good except it is minus color.
<it takes many months to recover color>
I could easily snap some pics of it if you would like. One last thing and I will
stop pestering you. Its mouth is open a little all the time except when eating.
Is that normal?
<A sign of stress... no more>
It is probably about 5-6 inches across but the mouth is open
maybe a quarter inch. Just to help with size comparison. It opens MUCH more
while eating and closes when done but then opens slightly a little later. I am
assuming this is normal.
<No worries>
Thank you so much for all the help and for now I will stay away from the ozone
or maybe just under dose just to be safe.
<Neither IMO. Use ozone with confidence at full strength if and only when you
have a proper redox controller hooked up to it. Else, do not use it at all>
I appreciate all the advice and again am sorry for the 3 novels now. Shane
<No worries, bud... best regards, Anthony>
Slow And Steady!
Hey WWM Crew,
<Scott F your Crew member tonight!>
I'm sure this will sound like the same old question to you regarding yellow
tangs and disease.
<Each one is an adventure, and an opportunity for us all to learn!>
I've read The Conscientious Marine Aquarist (Excellent read!) and I've read the
parasite and yellow tang faq's. Actually, reading
these gave me more questions, which I present to you now.
<Fire away, braddah..>
To give you some background, I acquired a yellow tang (about 3 inches) at the
start of January. A few days after I got him, he came down with ich
in a 40g isolation tank.
<Good to hear that>
By the 15th of Jan, I had a 30g tank filled with slightly lowered salinity
water. During that time, I also lowered the sg of the tank (1.017) he
was in (unfortunately containing substrate-won't put new fish in there again,
lesson learned) and slowly increased the temp (80f). Once I got the
30g treatment tank all set up to match the "quarantine" tank he was
in, I moved him to the treatment tank. Inside were 4, 2, and 1 inch
pvc pipes for him to look around and hide in.
<Perfect "decor" for a quarantine tank!>
Copper bound to citric acid was added to the tank and measured at least 2x daily
(normal recommended dose-.15 something I think, sorry). Treatment
went well and ended on the 30th. I tried following fairly standard
protocol. Now, about a week later, I am starting to worry about his health. His
white stress bar was really showing brightly and his colors weren't quite so
yellow, although his feeding is pretty good. Also, his gill beat at
rest
is pretty high. I did a number of things that could have caused this.
I moved the pvc pipes around to really vaccum the bare bottom. I took out the
macro algae because it was looking pretty bad and forgot to replace it. The
spray bar from the canister filter (didn't contain media that would
absorb/adsorb CU, but will be replaced anyways) was submerged, whereas before,
the return was spraying into the tank making bubbles.
<These fishes do need plenty of oxygenation>
I've also been slowly raising the salinity to match my display tank (not the
isolation, which is currently going fallow) and dropping the temps very
slowly. I think that was about it.
<I have to assume that all chemical parameters are within acceptable limits (i.e;
ammonia and nitrite are undetectable, nitrate low, etc..>
I have done as many things as possible to fix these possible problems. I added
more macro algae back to the tank. I raised the spray bar out of the
water to create more bubbles. I have also put newspaper on the tank
to maybe help keep stress down (he actually peeks out of the cracks to see what
I'm doing). I can't help messing with the tank to do water changes
and I want to prepare him (slowly) for the 80g community tank.
<Absolutely...those water changes are important...keep doing that!>
It has been a few days since I did these things and there is some improvement,
but I am a big worrier. I've just spent so much time with this fish
up to now that I don't want to make a simple mistake. Since I noticed the stress
line, his color has come back a bit and his stress line is visible, but has a
definite yellow tinge, rather than pure white. I also began feeding a small
amount of fortified brine shrimp, which he appreciates. I have not
noticed if the gill beats have returned to normal. Sorry for such a long intro,
but I wanted to make sure you had enough background info...
<That's okay- you gave me some good information about what he's been
through...Sounds like you're doing everything right, and correcting things that
need it...so far, so good...>
1- Are the increased gill beats (when my hand is not in the tank) something to
really worry about before adding him to my main tank? He definitely
does not have black ich and I can't tell what gill flukes look like. He hasn't
shown any signs of ich since the 17th.
<Well, increased respiration is never something that you want to see with
tangs, or any fish, for that matter. In my experience, rapid respiration is
generally a response to either an illness of some sort (Amyloodinium or advanced
ich), or some sort of environmental problem (detectible ammonia, nitrite, or
other unacceptable water condition, such as low pH). Frankly, some times, the
fish may simply be skittish- and this response is more likely to occur in a bare
quarantine tank...Finally, do recheck the copper concentration in the water to
make sure that it is within proper therapeutic parameters. After the course of
treatment is completed with copper, my advice is to reduce the copper level as
soon as possible, as its continued presence in the water may cause additional
stress to the fish and its digestive fauna. Use a specialized filter media, such
as PolyFilter or Cuprisorb, to remove the excess copper>>
2- At this point after treatment, will a freshwater dip do him any good?
<I utilize the freshwater dip at the beginning of quarantine, to help reduce
or eliminate potential parasites that are in/on the fish. Unless you are
currently dealing with an identifiable parasitic infection at this point, I'd
refrain from this potentially stressful procedure. Instead, I'd "stay the
course" and continue close observation, quality feeding (don't forget heavy
use of vegetable matter, such as nori or fresh Gracilaria macroalgae), and
routine water changes through the end of the quarantine period.>
He shows no signs of disease, just stress. He has never had a
freshwater dip and I don't want to stress him out more than I have to at this
point.
<Agreed, as stated above>
However, I really don't want to introduce anything new to the 80g community
tank.
<I'd observe him continuously. Remember, quarantine is to last 3 to 4 weeks.
In the case of a fish that becomes sick during the quarantine period, you need
to "reset" the "clock" to a minimum of 3 weeks to one month
after the disease is eliminated>
3- If a freshwater dip is in order, should I do it and place him back into the
30g treatment tank he is currently in, or do it just before putting him in the
80g display?
<Back into the treatment tank for him!>
4- Do you think that the 14th or 15th of Feb is a good day to introduce him to
the 80g community tank? This will be 2 weeks after the last day of
copper treatment and over 3 weeks since he showed any signs of ich. I
will wait longer if needed. I have read that 2 weeks after copper
treatment completion is sufficient (yellow tang faq 1).
<Good if he's been in your tank before, but remember, he's a new acquisition,
and still needs to be treated as such...give him two more weeks...You've done
everything right so far, no sense in messing it all up with impatience,
okay?>
If you are still awake enough to click reply after my novel, I'd appreciate any
advice you could offer. I'm not above making beginner mistakes
(marine aquarist 8 months in the making) and I really appreciate Bob's book,
this web page and everyone's personal replies to the e-mails I've sent in the
past. You guys provide a great service to us all.
<You're doing great! Just be sure to share your experience with others...Your
patience and diligence in care will pay dividends throughout your hobbyist
"career!". I'm sure that this tang will be a healthy, happy, and proud
inhabitant of your tank for years to come!>
Thank you very much, David Smith
<And thank you for stopping by, David! Keep up the good work! Regards, Scott
F>
- Seastar Troubles -
Hello,
<Hello, JasonC here...>
I had a red star general. Suddenly it got a spot on
it. the tank was medicated with Mela-fix. <Perhaps a reaction to
the tea-tree oil/Melafix.> The starfish got worse and it looked like
something ate it, however nothing was ever seen on it. <Well... when a
seastar checks out, they tend to dissolve.> Recently some of my fish got
ich. The tank was medicated with Greenex. <Oh goodness, no... this
is what caused you the problems with your inverts. Greenex is incredibly toxic
and pretty much fatal for invertebrates.> Now my Brittlestars are starting to
lose sections of their arms. They are not losing a whole piece but
small pieces at a time. <I'm sorry to tell you that they are probably
goners.>
Could you please help.
Thanks Joe Stein
<Joe, in the future, when you need to treat a problem like ich, you need to
do it in a separate tank, away from the main display. Greenex is a combination
of Malachite Green and Formalin, both of which are really bad news and in fact,
inappropriate for ich - you'd be better off treating with copper in a quarantine
tank. Likewise, I wouldn't bother with Melafix at this point - there is no
scientific evidence that this stuff works for treating a problem like
Cryptocaryon/ich. Please read the following articles on WWM - they should
provide you some background and also a plan for action:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
Cheers, J -- >
- Please Don't Treat the Display -
Hi WWM Crew,
<Hi, JasonC here...>
I have a question about a fish that I believe is sick. He is a
Harlequin Tusk (about 5 to 6 inches long). He is a resident of a 180g
FO tank that was being treated for ich. I was using chelated copper (CopperSafe)
for approximately 2 weeks. <My friend, you really, really shouldn't treat the
main display with anything. If you have a disease problem, the affected
individuals need to be removed to a separate tank. This may sound like a pain,
but believe me when I say this, it's going to be nowhere near as painful as
potentially losing your entire tank. Copper and other medications are absorbed
by the substrate and decor making it impossible to have a dose effective enough
to kill the disease. Likewise, copper will cause your biological filtration to
stall.> Three days ago I noticed a sudden, marked change in his
behavior. He began spending most of his time hiding in the back of
the tank and when he did swim around he bumped into things. He (normally a very
healthy eater) has eaten anything for 3 days. <An otherwise healthy Tuskfish
can go upwards of two weeks without food.> He has no visible signs of ich, he
is not breathing heavy and is not emaciated but his dorsal fins are constantly
"up". The tank conditions are ... 80F, no ammonia, no
nitrite, nitrate at 20-40, pH ~8.0. <Interesting... do keep an eye on these
parameters - copper will likely be leaching out of you substrate and rockwork
for a little while longer.> I put poly pads in to remove the copper (2 local
dealer thought poisoning in the absence of any other symptoms) 2 days
ago. I moved him to a hospital tank yesterday for closer observation
and potential treatment. Does this sound like poisoning to you?
<It could be - Tuskfish are sensitive to excess copper, and blindness can be
the result. Does the fish still react to your presence?> Is there anything
else that it could be? <Perhaps just feeling grumpy.> If it is poisoning
and he is, in fact, blind do you think that the fish is beyond help? <Not
beyond help, but will need much direct care from you - the blindness, if this is
the problem, is not reversible, but you can feed the fish with a feeding stick -
put the food right in front of its face. The fish will likely need a tank all to
itself, probably with nothing it can run into. I would keep it under
observation, and look for other signs that it in fact cannot see. These fish
tend to bash and thrash about when they feel threatened, and perhaps something
in the water chemistry of the 180 caused it to feel this way. My own Tuskfish
smashed it's face to shreds in quarantine once - didn't eat for two weeks...
these things are pretty standard.>
Bob Jones
<Cheers, J -- >
- Treating Ich -
<Greetings, JasonC here...>
Here is a copy of my first e-mail.
I have had the tank for about a month and a half. I have some problems with ich
so I bought a UV sterilizer. I seemed to be doing real well but I accidentally
shut it off one day and it was off for a couple days. I was so mad all the
progress was lost. I am now having more outbreaks but by far not horrible.
<I'd like to interject here that your problems are likely not due to the UV
being shut off. When you see spots on your fish, this is not the actual parasite
but irritation from the parasite. What has happened is that the parasite has
dropped off into your sandbed to reproduce and will come back in much larger
numbers. Unfortunately, UV filtration is only partially effective... there are
many factors - design, flow-through rate, etc that will determine the
effectiveness of this item.> Today I raised the temp to 82 degrees. Do you
think this will take care of it as long as I am patient? <No.> I also
ordered No-Ich and will save that as a last resort. <I wouldn't trust this
stuff... you need to take much more aggressive action.> All off my fish are
still healthy and eating well and the spots are by no means in large quantities
and it has been present for about a week and a half now. <I wouldn't wait too
much longer.> Next I have an anemone that is not healthy. I bought it before
researching and took the pet store owners advice. Too bad he is knowledgeable
and trust worthy but knows nothing about anemones. It is a purple tip sebae. I
bought some plankton and blood worms. It ate the blood worms but I think it spit
them out over night. Are these not recommended. <No, and likewise these need
excellent lighting to keep them healthy.> I will try the plankton and will be
getting Mysis shrimp. Oh and this is all frozen by the way. <Try thawing it
out first, that would help.> The first day I got it ate a rosy minnow. Would
it be ok to feed it that? Any salt water fish alternatives? Any help is
appreciated I want to get it back to health and so you know yes it is whitish
yellow. Poor thing. <I'm afraid this animal is not doing well... please read
this article: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/anemones.htm
>
I forgot to mention I have 2 cleaner wrasse and a skunk cleaner shrimp. I will
be getting one more. The shrimp is riding my fish pretty often so I really want
to pick up another. <Please keep in mind that parasitic problems in closed
systems such as your tank can get well out of control of cleaners such as
these.> My local shops are out right now though. So in all I have 2 cleaner
wrasse, a skunk cleaner shrimp, raised temps and a UV sterilizer hooked up to my
Eheim. <Your UV will be completely ineffective against Ich with this flow
rate. Please read these articles:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphysf.htm
>
Thank you and again sorry for the double e-mail,
Shane
<Cheers, J -- >
Parasitic infection
Hi Bob/Steven/Anthony,
<Anthony here because Bob proved that 108 beer nuts could be stuffed up a
man's nostrils and Steve is still laughing for having seen it. You are stuck
with me, bub>
I added a small blue hippo tang to my tank 2 weeks ago.
<P. hepatus... AKA "Ich Magnet" by anybody's measure>
I followed the standard fw dip/2 week qt/fw dip protocol. So needless to say my
wife and I were crushed last night to find that the hippo tang was infected with
some sort of parasite, (white, around 1/10" long, 3 on left cheek).
<I do commend you for the excellent effort with the QT. Indeed a two week
stay will screen almost anything. However... a true quarantine is 4 weeks. Easy
for me to say in hindsight, huh? Do so with notorious fish or weak fish inthe
future. But again, a very good effort on your part>
I tried unsuccessfully to net him out so I could treat him the qt, but it would
be impossible to catch him short of tearing down the tank and removing all the
rock/coral. My question is, would environmental manipulation (low spg, high
temp) along with vitamin soaked foods effect a cure for this type of
parasite?
<unlikely, but worth the effort if he seems otherwise strong and eating well.
Try for 3-5 days hoping for stabilization or improvement else, tank breakdown
(really just a quick drain and refill witha strong pump)>
Are cleaner shrimps effective against these type of parasites, or
only ich?
<really not once infected... a help but not a cure>
Is there anything else I can do short of tearing down my tank?
Arggghhh, this is the reason I qt in the first place! Tank recap: 90gal, 30gal
sump, 100lbs lr, T-1000 skimmer, water turnover 10x/hr, various lps, shrooms,
and 1 sarcophyton, 1-2.5" purple tang, 2-2" true percs, 1-2"
hippo tang. All are eating, swimming normally, including the hippo. Thanks in
advance for your help.
<an ozonizer through the skimmer wouldn't be a terrible idea... many other
long-term benefits but not an inexpensive investment. Have faith, as susceptible
as these fish are, they usually survive it just fine. I have friend with a 26
year old Blue hepatus tang still going strong (ugly... but strong <wink>)
Anthony>
Parasitic infection II
Hey Anthony,
Thanks for the reply. Thank goodness you didn't see Bob's adventure with the
beer nuts too, or else there'd be nobody left to answer these questions!
<you'd think... but I must be tougher than I look. I had to bear witness to
his "Human Methane Torch" experiment. I thought I'd never want to eat
(or smell) eggs again after that one>
As for the 4 week qt, I may just be doing that from now on. But I read on WWM
that Bob even suggested not quarantining these particular fish at all, due to
potential starvation, etc.
<indeed many things to consider... and more than one way to do it. Speaking
to a novice aquarist (as Bob so often does) I would agree with such advice. But
to an aquarist with some experience or above average inclination for good
husbandry I would not agree at all. The difference essentially is a new aquarist
is less likely to understand and appreciate the need for small frequent feedings
of tangs in bare aquaria. And so, the placement of such animals for said
aquarists in a stable tank with live rock to browse serves the greater good>
I was too paranoid to not qt at all, so I figured 2 weeks would be good.
<I understand and might have done the very same thing myself looking at a
good fish>
One last question, since I will be tearing down the tank, would it be wise to
remove all the fish while I'm at it?
<usually draining the tank without touching the rockscape is sufficient. Just
catch the fish in the lst few inches of water... but wait until the water level
is low enough to touch its back to make the catch easier. After catching him,
pump the drained water right back in. Definitely a simple 20-30 minute gig with
a good pump and much less stressful than relentless chasing with a net or
stressing everybody (fish and human) with a rock breakdown too>
They don't look like they're infected yet, but I'd hate to see them come
down with the symptoms a couple days later after I've replaced all the lr and
coral!!!
<hoping you don't have to>
I have a 15gal qt. Would all my fish be ok in there for the qt period? Again,
1-2.5" purple tang, 2-2" true percs, 1-2" hippo tang.
<a whisker small but no problem if you do small frequent water changes. Daily
for the first 8 days from the bottom can remove tomites and cure Ich without
medication (by breaking the life cycle of the parasite)>
Thanks again.
<quite welcome my friend>
swollen scooter blenny
Hi there, <<Hello, JasonC here...>>
You guys do an amazingly great job. <<Well thank you.>> I have a
question about my red scooter blenny. Judging by the dorsal fin, he is a male.
He has been in my 90 gallon, 1.5 year old tank for approximately 4 months. He
has been doing well, is very active, picks off the 120 lbs of live rock
regularly. Today I looked at him and he is all swollen. His head seems to be a
little swollen but he has what looks like 2 bubbles, one on either side under
the skin behind his pectoral fins. He is about 2 inches long and the bubbles are
each about 1/3 inch in diameter so he is really puffy. The rest of his body
behind the bubbles looks fine. He still seems to be doing well but I've never
seen this before. Can you tell me what this is? <<Not sure exactly...
could be an internal parasite, could be a tumorous growth, could also be gas
bubble disease. Do any of your other fish show a similar problem?>> Do I
need to change something, treat something or do nothing? <<I wouldn't try
any treatments without knowing a little better what the problem actually is. I
would keep up the observations... look to see if the problem is getting better
or worse. Do read up on the following link and the FAQs beyond: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm
>>
Thanks in advance for your help, Linda
<<Cheers, J -- >>
Tang Ich
Hi bob,
<Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob is in Australia and Steve is
discovering as a new father just how far a baby really can pee across the room
when changing a diaper>
Thank you for the advise and I think my husband and I are planning a family trip
to the aquarium in the next 2 weeks (has to be he's about to deploy for 6
months) so soon.
<my respect and kind thoughts in honor>
Now I have another dilemma. I have a yellow tang that I've had for about 2
months. He's been fine except for the past 3 days.
I cleaned off the glass of my aquarium after a bga bloom. My tang is now
swimming against the sides of the glass, rubbing himself on it and then swatting
it with his tail. His hind quarters are actually turning pink from all of this
and with these fish being the ick magnets they allready are, I'm worried the
stress might make him susceptible to it. Could this be a show of aggression to
his own reflection on the tank walls?
<it certainly is. A simple artifact of the distribution of light in the room.
Consider putting a piece of solid colored paper/plastic on the short end walls
at least just temporarily. Leave the front open of course>
I was also keeping a hippo tang for a friend (new tank had not finished
cycling yet). I had this tang for about 3 weeks and they were real buddies ate
together got cleaned by my shrimp together etc.etc. My friend took his tang back
a week ago. Could this have something to do with it?
<very unlikely. Not so in my opinion>
thank you so much for the time and sorry for all the questions
worried mom Dela
< you are quite considerate. Be assured that this is easily corrected.
Experiment with the shields and different lamps/overhead lights in the room to
discover the culprit. Kindly, Anthony>
Disease?
WWM Crew,
<Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob travels to Australia for the
International Avon products awards ceremony (how else did you think he runs this
site for free? hehe...)>
First, thank you all for taking the time to listen <read> about my
particular woes and that of all of us trying to care the best we can for our
oceanic friends.
<a pleasure>
Next, i'm hoping to rid my odonus niger of a clouding it has over its eyes.
He<?> is in a 125g all-glass aquarium with a rhinecanthus aculeatus, both
fish about 5 inches body length, not including fins. The tank has about 50 lbs.
of live rock <for now, adding more after it's done curing>, a 2 1/2 to 3
inch base of crushed aragonite, a Fluval 404, a Berlin Turbo hang on skimmer,
and undergravel filters run by 3 Powerhead 802's. Lighting is a 40w 20000k and a
40w actinic. Spg 1.022. Temperature 78 degrees. Ammonia zero. Nitrite zero.
Nitrate about 40ppm. Both fish are eating heartily, being fed a homemade mix of
squid, scallops, mussels, orange roughy, shrimp, clams, and mahi mahi. Loveable
guys eat better than i do.
<yes... an outstanding diet!>
The Niger as i said before has a lot of clouding over its right eye, and the
clouding is just starting to appear on its left eye.
<at this point likely to be bacterial if the other fish are not affected>
Behavior is typical most of the time, but every once in a while he will do
"corkscrews" through the water and rub his body against the rock.
Also, on one of his fins he has what appears to be a brown algae growth <best
description i can think of>, but this has started to retreat somewhat over
the past week. He is very well colored, no signs of HLLE so hopefully he's
getting good nutrition, but will hide a lot behind some of the rocks.
<Odonus are typically shy... no worries here>
The Huma has no visible signs of what is showing on the Niger. He is very well
colored as well. Neither trigger has really seemed to control the other
aggression-wise, as they have grown up together since they were both about 3/4
of an inch. Do the growths on the Niger sound like Amyloodiniumiasis?
<hard to say without seeing it, but unlikely. You would have at least
mentioned rapid breathing and more excessive scrathing>
Should I be worried about the growths <i am>?
<very unusual symptom>
Also, on a slightly separate note, should i have the powerheads running in
reverse flow or standard like i currently have them?
<only reverse if the water is prefiltered... otherwise raw matter is pumped
below the UG bed (bad!)>
Any information will be greatly appreciated as i have come to trust the WWM crew
more than i do most of the LFS's here in the Phoenix area.
<best bet is a small QT tank for the Odonus with a 7-10 day treatment of
Formalin and an anitibiotic combo of Furazolidone and Nitrofurazone. You should
see stabilization or improvement within 5 days. You cannot treat the main tank
for many reasons>
Hopefully bump into you guys in Belize sometime,
<it would be a delight!>
Robert A. Nardizzi
<kindly, Anthony Calfo>
Malachite Green
Mr. Fenner,
I would like to know if you had any idea if a chemical called "Malachite
Green" is harmful to sting rays?
<Malachite Green... is harmful to cartilaginous fishes... Is what you want to
do with this dye worth the stress, damage?>
I know this chemical is in a lot of products that get rid of ich. And other
similar products. I want to check on a product called green X by Aquatronics.
The label says it is safe for all invertebrates and ALL fish. But this chemical
is in it and I have noticed it in a lot of other products that say not safe for
rays. Your help would be greatly appreciate.
Thanks,
Marty Abeyta
<Am not a big fan of Greenex... not safe for invertebrates OR fishes. Bob
Fenner>
Re: Malachite Green
Mr. Fenner,
I am glad to hear that. I used green X on my tank for small parasites. The label
on the box said it was safe for ALL fish. Well guess what. I HAD a blue dot
sting ray, butterfly sting ray, blue face angel fish and a brittle star fish.
They all died.
<Arrggghhh. Sorry to read of your losses>
The only fish that lived was the lion fish that brought the problem in to the
tank in the first place. Like a drunk driver, he was fine. They all died the
next day. I called Aquatronics to complain. They refered me to their tech
Jennifer. I called her and she said that it couldn't have been their product. I
must have had something wrong with the tank in the first place. The tank had
been running for about 7 months. I have a guy come out to change the and test
the water every 2 weeks. Jennifer said that they would set up a test tank with
the exact fish and they would use the same lot number and let me know of the
results. I called her about two weeks later and she said that the tank was not
set up yet. About another two weeks went buy and I called again. Jennifer
claimed to have tried to get a hold of me to tell me that they used double doses
and that all the fish are fine. So in other words I was screwed. I think it is
so unfair that my fish had to die so they can make a buck. I was even starting
to hand feed the rays. But what can I as the little guy do?
Marty
<Mmm, I know the folks from years back who own, run Aquatronics and know them
to be honest and competent... They have many fine products, but not this one
(IMO of course). Please use the Google search tool on our site, WetWebMedia.com
and the name "Greenex" or peruse the marine disease, treatment areas
there... and read of others experiences with this product. You are welcome to
show my opinions, input to "Jennifer" at Aquatronics. Bob Fenner>
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